least crowded in summer?
 

I am planning our first trip to Europe -- (7 - 10 days) My first thought was Italy, but I've heard that the crowds are awful in the summertime (which is when we have to go). We love beautiful scenery & mountains, so thought about Switzerland and Austria--but are the crowds just as bad there? Any other suggestions. I have finally gotten my husband to agree on a european trip, so I want it to be "grand" and unforgettable. London or Paris are not options.

There are many places you can go in Italy in summer that are not crowded. Do a google search for Urbino, for instance, and see if you like the pictures. The surrounding hills of Montefeltro are marvelous, the food is great and the climate is quite nice there too. Piemonte is not heavily touristed, and neither are the hilltowns of Liguria between Piemonte and the sea. The food and wine are considered among the greatest in Italy.

You may as well accept the fact that there is a good reason people flock to certain places.

You say you have "heard" the crowds are "awful" and I agree that some places are more crowded/popular than others.

Switzerland can be just as busy/crowded depending on where in that country you are.

The question seems to be are you going to go somewhere that is actually a second choice on your list just to avoid the possible throngs?

Hi cathee,

I've visited Switzerland about 14 times in the past 11 years, so I hope I can help with your question.

Basically, the crowds come to the Swiss Alps in hordes in August. If you can come in late June to mid July, you shouldn't have to contend with those mobs. Also, you can avoid crowds by avoiding those destinations. Because Grindelwald allows cars, the tourist busses unload there and the streets do get mobbed in Aug. However, nearby Wengen, which is car-free, is relatively deserted.

So, please don't let the idea of crowds deter you -- you can manage your trip to keep a lower and quieter profile.

Hope this helps!

s

Since I do not know that much about Italy, yes, I've traveled to Italy, but I do not know this area and can not give the tremendously excellent answers that I normally give about travels in Switzerland.

There are many areas that can be crowded in Switzerland. Most of the Swiss posters on Fodors wil tell you that the Jungfrau, Lucern and Zermatt regions can be crowded in the summer;however, there are areas you can get to that are less crowded. That valley just on the other side of Kandersteg is not as crowded. I sometimes venture over to the Loenchental<SP?> valley just on the other side of Kandersteg. Kandersteg itself is not all of that crowded, particularlly after the sun goes down. All of the tourists go back to Thun and Jungfrau area.

Saas Fee, which once was a private out of the way area, but now Americans are starting to vist with greater frenquency than was the case 10 years ago when I first started going there.

My first trip to Saas fee, I counted 4 Americans, I myself included.

Saas Fee seems to be popular among German tourists though. I have always gotten along quite well with the Germans. So the area is popular, but in my opinion not nearly as crowded as Jungfrau region.

So there you have it.

Still though, if you are in Switzerland in July, you owe it to yourself to see the Jungfrau area. Yes, the trains wil be packed. The gondolas and mountain trains will be crammed with people, but you would certainly be rewarded with some great scenes and memories.

I have traveled in Switzerland in July and August (i go to the Lac Leman towns outside Geneva), and twice included Venice by train. I did not find the 'crowds' overwhelming.

A LOT depends on what you mean by "summer". Many Americans tend to think of anything between Memorial Day and Labor Day as "summer". But European schools run longer than most American schools. Basicaly their summer holiday is mid July til about the first week in Sept. That's why late July and especially August are soooo crowded lots of places.

If you can travel in June or early July you really don't run into horrible crowds almost anywhere.

If you love scenery and mountains but not crowds, how about Scandinavia - maybe combined with Germany (eg Berlin) or Russia (eg St Petersburg)?

In Paris, June is the month with the most Americans, for some reason. That isn't even considered to be summer by the French. Meanwhile, August is the rock bottom low season for hotel rooms, contrary to what a lot of people think.
The last two years, I have taken trips to both the French & Swiss Alps and the French & Spanish Pyrénées in August and have had absolutely no problems at all with crowds. One reason is that the weather was abominably rainy and cold in August in those areas in both 2005 & 2006.
In terms of my own mountain interests, I am leaning towards Slovenia for my next mountain trip. It enters the eurozone on January 1st, 2007 and is still reasonably priced.

For people who "love beautiful scenery and mountains," but not crowds, the Pyrenees are a fantastic summer destination, blissfully uncrowded and pristine, with food on both sides of the border that surpasses Switzerland's. It also provides marvelous opportunities to dip down onto the coast at least once despite the crowds -- San Sebastian would be my top pick.

Hi C,

>...I've heard that the crowds are awful in the summertime (which is when we have to go).<

For good reason. That is when everyone else has to go.

>I want it to be "grand" and unforgettable. London or Paris are not options. <

That leaves Rome. :)

Are there reasons why London and Paris are not options?

((I))

I have been to London already (loved it) and my husband doesn't want to go to Paris. What would Rome and Venice be like the end of June? I always thought their crowded summer was like ours --mid June - end of August.

Hi C,

>I have been to London already (loved it) and my husband doesn't want to go to Paris.<

Well, he should have his head examined. :)

Why not take him to London and show him why you loved it.

>I always thought their crowded summer was like ours --mid June - end of August. <

August is the big time for Europeans to go on vacation.

If you can go just after Memorial Day, you will find fewer European tourists.

((I))

If by "the end of June" you mean after school lets out in America, you'll find a lot of tourists in Venice and Rome, and Rome is quite likely to be hot, and Venice too. You will not see "beautiful scenery and mountains" in either place (although rome has seven famous hills).

But there are ways to compensate for crowds and heat. In Roma, if you can afford it, get a place with air conditioning (or even a pool). In Venezia, make sure you stay well outside the San Marco and the Rialto area. Do a lot of your touristing in the early mornign and then evening, avoiding both crowds and heat. Spend your afternoons on boat rides to the islands or the Lido, or lazing in a cafe.

Go where you want to go, and work out a strategy to not be part of the tourist stampede.

In Italy, I vote for Liguria. Summer is lovely; warm but you can bathe, boat and sightsee. Incredible food and scenery. Some nice mountain scenery in the area, Piemonte, and very northern Tuscany, which is never overly touristed.

I now have many options to consider and I thank you for all of them. Since my husband and I are only a couple of years away from retiring, I think I'll might save Italy for the fall and go for another European option this summer. Any more suggestions would be much appreciated.

Good advice as always Janis. Out of interest, when are Memorial Day and Labor Day ?

cathee, I always go on holiday in June, and September when I can manage it, in order to avoid the school holidays. The real tourist hotspots like St Mark's Square in Venice will always be crowded but you don't have to walk far to be in a very quiet area, anywhere.

You don't seem to tell us much about what sort of place(s) you really really want to visit, though - would your first choice be cities, countryside or some of both ? You mention beautiful scenery & mountains but also mention cities albeit only ones you don't want to visit.

If you really want to go to Italy, haven't been before and want a mix of city & scenery, the obvious choice would be something like Rome OR Venice and the Amalfi Coast, which isn't that crowded in June. You can fly quite cheaply between Venice and Naples - I just booked with Alitalia for next June for £60pp. 4 days in Venice & 5 on the Amalfi Coast would be nice. Can you get an open jaw ticket, e.g. fly into Venice & out of Naples ?

I'd go to Switzerland.

caroline_edinburgh: Sorry about the "USA-centric" answer :)

Memorial Day is the last Monday in May (corresponds w/ the UK May Bank Holiday). And Labor Day is the first Monday in Sept. Most American schools are out all or most of June. Some schools do resume before Labor Day, but it is that last big US Holiday weekend before Fall so is sort the last gasp of summer vacation.

We love nature and beautiful scenery, hiking, rafting, etc. but also history and sightseeing. We have seen plenty of mountains and water in the U.S. and Canada. What I know Europe will add is the history. If we went to Switzerland and saved Italy for another time, might we be disappointed, as we have been all over the U.S. and Canadian Rockies, which are breathtaking or would there plenty else to see and do? I assume the Swiss Alps will overwhelm anything we've seen before?? Another question I have is, if we could go the last week in June, would be pretty much miss much of the overcrowding? Thanks, again for all of your great advise.

>We love nature and beautiful scenery, hiking, rafting, etc. but also history and sightseeing.<

Might I make a suggestion? Take a look at the German-Austrian area around Salzburg and Berchtesgaden. You'd get both the spectacular scenery and the rich history.

> if we could go the last week in June, would be pretty much miss much of the overcrowding?<

IMO, Yes!

How about Scotland? It has beautiful scenery and crowds are low as long as you stay away from Loch Ness and Edinburgh during the Festival... and even during traditionally crowded times, it's nothing compared to other places during high season.

Just a thought.

Topping...

I am not sure I would agree that the Swiss Alps will necessarily overwhelm all those other mountains you've seen; for example Mt. Elbert and the Matterhorn are both in the same general height range whereas Mont Blanc further west is over 15,000 feet. The overall ambience will certainly be somewhat different in terms of the villages, etc., and crowds or not, I suspect you'll never forget it.

We spent a few days in Austria at the end of July, just over the border from Fussen Germany. It was really gorgeous and amazingly uncrowded. There were people, to be sure, but not a ton. Fussen and Hohenschwangau were another story - crawling with people - but then that is where the Ludwig Castles are, so a lot of people go. By contrast, just outside of Reutte Austria there is a lake called the Plansee - gorgeous area. There were people congregating around the beaches where there were restaurants and things, but it wasn't crowded.

Thanks Janis, for my new facts for today ! Wow, so most US schools have *3 months* off in summer ?!?! Nearly as much as our MPs !

Traditionally, US students are off all summer - when the US was largely agricultural, the school system was set up around the harvest. In exchange though, there are few breaks during the school year - a couple weeks off at Christmas, a week off sometime around Easter, and then a few more days sprinkled throughout the year for various holidays.

Schools in some parts of the US are converting to year round school - they generally divide the students into 4 groups and then rotate vacation schedules. Each group is in school for a certain number of weeks and then off for a little bit. Groups 1-3 may be in school and group 4 is out. When group 4 comes back, group 1 goes out, and so on. The kids get about the same time off as in the traditional system, but it is broken up throughout the year. With such a long break in the traditional system, teachers spend a lot of time at the beginning of each school year reviewing last year's material. This gives kids less time to forget what they have learned. It also helps with over crowding because at any one time, a quarter of the students are not in school. Complicated, but once people get used to the system, it seems to work out pretty well.

cathee,

You could explore both some European history, art, architecture, etc., AND some spectacular mountain scenery with a trip to Münich and then to the Dolomites. Bolzano, a lovely city in its own right (and location of the Iceman museum) is only 4 hours from Münich by direct train. From there, it is a short hop by rental car or scheduled bus service to various villages in the Dolomites.

Or, if you didn't want to go that far, you could visit Garmisch-Partenkirchen for some hiking, including two amazing gorge hikes.

None of these areas should be particularly "crowded" in late June, unless you choose to visit Neuschwanstein castle. We did a very nice trip to these areas, including both Garmisch-Partenkirchen and the Dolomites, a few years ago in August. Even then, the height of the summer, it was not crowded anywhere except on one very popular trail.

Switzerland is also a wonderful option if you purely want to go hiking (fewer historical sites). The mountain scenery is not at all like the Canadian Rockies---fewer broad sweeping vistas; more jagged peaks and glaciers. The hiking there is very user-friendly---now grizzlies to worry about, and there are lifts and Hütte (restaurants) everywhere. That is, it is much more developed than the Rockies, but the scenery is no less stunning.

If you are interested in Switzerland, you can get some wonderful suggestions for off-the-beaten-path travel here. You should probably start with a new question that is more specific.

Thanks for the great suggestions. I have a lot to research. when I get closer to a final destination I will look forward to more advice. I have planned many trips based on fodorite suggestions. they are so much better than simply reading a travel book.

There are grand mountains in central Europe, the Tatra between Poland and Slovakia, and the Carpathians in eastern Romania and south west Ukraine. These names may be strange to you, but if you set the Fodors Europe search software to Lithuania and look for “Lithuania, Fodors first trip report” and “Poland and Lithuania” you will find two recent and well written trip reports by Americans who were delighted by the beauty, low costs, and strong welcome they had in that former Soviet country.

Poland and Slovakia are similar, but have mountains. For surveys please set Google to In Your Pocket Poland and In Your Pocket Slovakia. Those pages are not so strong on the Romanian and Ukrainian mountains, but those are anyway a little less accessible than the Tatra. For the Tatra your best choice is a flight to Berlin or Vienna, and a day in a restaurant car train to recover from the flight, unwind, and roll into the mountains. A specialist travel agent can book you the train. You might phone or email two, Budget Europe Travel Service, phone 800-441-9413 or 800-441-2387, site http://www.budgeteuropetravel.com/ , and Euraide of Florida, E-mail [email protected], phone 941/480-1555, site http://www.euraide.com. If you ask two to estimate you can look for the lower fare. If planes leave Europe in the morning you can take a night train to your airport for your flight home.

Trains that may prove useful are
Berlin main station 0938, Krakow 1917. You would dine in the old town, spend a night in a hotel beside the station, and take a morning train up to Zakopane or bus up to towns in the mountains
Vienna West station 0818, Poprad Tatry 1439
Vienna South station 0928, Bratislava 1025 to 1134, Poprad Tatry 1634
Vienna South station 1128, Bratislava (with a good cold lunch in the station buffet) 1225 to 1313 (not Saturdays) Poprad Tatry 1728
From Poprad Tatry station delightful rack railways climb the mountains in thirty minutes to the mountain resorts
Vienna West station 1452, Poprad Tatry 2113, spend the night, and go up the mountain railway in the morning.

All these trains, except those from Vienna South to Bratislava and on the rack railways, have restaurant cars, as cheap as everything else in these countries, with good beer in Poland and good wine in Slovakia. In Your Pocket Poland has good annotated lists of accommodation in Krakow and Zakopane: a zloty is 3.11 US dollars, and you book online. For hotels in Slovakia you could ask your chosen agent, or look into www.tatry.net/. There re some notes on these mountains on http://www.tatry.sk, but you need a guide book. Busses run between Zakopane and the Slovakian mountains in a few hours of scenic travel, so you could make a two-centre holiday.

The Fodors forum reports on Lithuania say how few English speakers know central Europe, and you will find great mountains there less crowded and cheaper than the Alps or others of west Europe. But please go soon: in ten years they will be busy.

Please write if I can help further. I like these places well.

Ben Haines, London
[email protected]

You might also consider the French alps.