Late night fun on Eurostar
 

DH had a "interesting" ride back to Brussels last night on Eurostar:
He was riding the 1913 train from London to Brussels. The scheduled arrival time was 2235. The actual arrival time was well after 2 am, a nearly four hour delay with no power in the train compartments, which meant no AC or any ventilation of fresh air. The bar car was shut tight, of course, so no opportunities for passengers to buy water. The train came to a halt less than 10 minutes from Brussels, then sat there for a couple of hours before a diesel engine came and pulled the train to the railyard (not the train station).

Train crew on the ground started opening doors for passengers to disembark and enter another train. There was no platform, only a dangerous drop to the ground. DH saw at least two people injured in the drop--getting luggage down wasn't a picnic either (he had only carryon luggage fortunately).

The Eurostar onboard staff were NOT helpful in the least. The train manager seemed to have opted to hide in the premium business car rather than go through the train to see what help passengers needed and issue instructions.

DH is a Carte Blanche cardholder and he sent the CB customer service department at Eurostar an email this morning about the experience...we're curious to see how they respond.

Ah, another power failure... My recollection is Eurostar gives 1/2 price off or free one-way off-peak for delays more than 1 hour.
The rub is, you have to reserve the compensatory trip either in person or over the phone. They won't let you redeem this over the web.
I'm not sure if they give additional compensation for longer delays, though.

eurostar is a mickey mouse company. i have to go to paris a lot on business and there are always problems (nothing so major as you describe, however). you would think they could get things right after so many years...and i don't mean that problems would never occur...just that the staff is well prepared and trained when they do.

I definitely think the Eurostar staff are poorly trained to cope with problems or emergencies.

Once my train from London to Paris stopped in the tunnel for over half an hour (not long after 9/11 so a lot of people were still very jumpy). The only information we got came in the form of near hysterical, panicky announcements from the train manager over the loudspeakers, along the lines of:

"There's a problem in the tunnel! We can't go on... [sound of panicky breathing]..."

Ten minutes later: "There's a serious problem [gulp], we're going to have to reverse all the way back to London ... [hyperventilation noises]... We cannot go forward to our destination."
The train still didn't move.

About twenty minutes later, the train was still sitting in the tunnel and all the passengers were wondering what on earth was going on. Eventually we were told there'd been a fire in the tunnel but they'd extinguished it and we carried on to Paris as planned.

By this point of course, all the passengers' nerves were completely frazzled as the train manager had freaked everybody out. @-)

Eurostar sounds like Amtrak.

Hi Btilke, that sounds like an awful experience!

And you would be interested that the SF Chronical just had an article this morning about our westcoast Amtrak train, the CoastStarlight. The one that runs from Seattle to LA. It is on time only 2% of the time. It has been late 5 to 11 hours the last 27 days out of 34 days. It is now dubbed the CoastStarlate.

I am surprised about the Eurostar, I was under the impression that was a well run train, obviously not!

I read that article too, LoveItaly. European trains may have their bad days but they are usually efficient and mostly there are so many lines. The one high speed Amtrak train (not the Starlate) there is had so many problems.

I believe that the Eurotunnel Group is currently under bankruptcy protection in France and that there have been numerous cuts in service and employees as the company struggles under its debt load. I'm not surprise with the service issues.

But then I guess Eurostar is a separate company from Eurotunnel . . .

Hi francophile. In that I live in the southern end of the Sacramento Valley I had thought about taking the Coast Starlight down to Santa Barbara to see some family members rather than flying. I thought it would be so relaxing. Well lets say I thought about it until an elderly family member took it from Sacramento to Santa Barbara and the train was something like 15 hours late. A train trip that almost did the poor fellow in.

To leap to Amtrak's defense: their trains are obliged to wait for freight trains that take precedence. I understand that European passenger trains use dedicated tracks.

I had no idea there were rather frequent problems with Eurostar & your DH's was a doozy.

That is true about Amtrak needing to yield to the freight trains. Well, they should have tried to have resolved the problem a long time ago as right now the ridership has declined significantly. Worse yet those who were interviewed for the article vowed that they won't be riding Amtrak again. And this is different but their one and only high speed train keeps getting into accidents.

LoveItaly, fifteen hours to travel between Sacramento and Santa Barbara??! The poor guy could have flown from California to Europe in less time.

It is true francophile!! This dear gentleman was 90 (we lost him last year). His legs were very weak and the family thought the train would be a good way to get him to Santa Barbara. He was so excited as he thought he wouldn't travel anymore as he just couldn't take the airports/planes etc. any longer. A gentleman who had travelled all of his life.

The family members in the Santa Barbara area never got any sleep that night..they kept checking with Amtrak to see when we train would arrive as they really needed to be there of course when it did. A nightmare for everyone. And for hours on end there was no food etc. The poor fellow slept almost 24 hours after finally arriving.

Fortunatly the train ride home went better...although if I recall it was late too, but not to such an extreme.

And yes, the fact that Union Pacific freight trains have the right of way is a huge problem.

Amtrak, dependent upon Congress as it is, barely gets enough money each year to scrape by, let alone buy the land and then lay down a nationwide system of rails. US likes to put its transportation dollars into subsidizing auto traffic.

Agree! And we are constantly told we should use public transportation. What public transportation? Certainly nothing to speak of where I live.

Problems on Eurostar aren't all that frequent but they seem to be clueless about handling them when they do occur. Earlier this summer, there was another Eurostar debacle where it took some passengers 12 hours to get from London to Paris! Obviously, staff are grossly undertrained in customer relations when it comes to snafus en route.
Hanl, your description of the hyperventilating train manager made my husband laugh, although it's more evidence of how seriously poor their communication skills are. It doesn't seem like Eurostar has many staffers who can maintain calm and collected in a crisis. Which makes you wonder what they'd be like in a bona fide emergency.
DH hasn't heard back from Carte Blanche customer service, he's going to give them another day or two. FYI, many of the passengers (DH included) took photos of the train and the dangerous drop to the ground when they were stuck in the rail yard.

We were on a Eurostar from Milan to Paris in April. On the 7-hr. trip we had 2 opposite experiences. The AC in our car did not operate, and it was very warm (80 deg.) and very crowded and noisy.
However, a few cars away, a group of 3 very dirty, shoeless young people with 3 dogs commandered the pass- through between two cars. At one point, one of the dogs left a "gift" in the middle of the floor. The ES staff were very quick to demand the owners clean it up, apologizing profusely to the people seated nearby. At the next stop, somewhere in the French Alps, the police boarded and escorted them all off of the train, shoeless onto the snow-covered platform.
Our arrival in Paris was on time, as well!

The Italian Eurostar runs all the way to Paris? I didn't know that.

I marvel at Europe and other countries that make public transportation one of their priorities. Over here in the States you either fly or drive to get somewhere. One can't depend on the bus or the rails as there are few choices.

However, in Europe one can travel the whole continent inexpensively via train if one chooses.

I realize that Eurostar (and other train companies) has its share of problems and, yes, when there are strikes they wreak huge havoc en mass. But, to me, it's alot better than what we have in the US.

Please remember that the trains in Europe are often dirty or late. They also are not so inexpensive. Also, Europe is a much smaller area than the US--and more densely populated. We have huge areas of the US that do not have a lot of people. How would a train be efficient there.

The Continental US covers 4 time zones. All of Western Europe except the UK is in the same time zone.

In the US, the plane is public transportation between cities due to the distances. It is often much cheaper than the train. In Europe that can be the case as well.

BTilke, we laugh about it now too, but I agree that it hardly inspires confidence in Eurostar's ability to cope with emergencies!

thank you faux for injecting some reality into this debate. occasionally, you can get some cheap fares on trains and it does vary by country but overall, i do not see how anyone can say that in general "trains in europe are inexpensive". one can easily spend a few hundred euro for a relatively short trip between european cities (standard class). even people who live near the M25 (rather close in to london) can pay about £20 to commute into london....many people spend much more. this does not include the drive to the station or parking there which is often necessary.

flying has grown considerably in popularity...at least from england. many people that i work with will fly to paris rather than take the train. it is usually much cheaper for the overall journey...even considering a taxi to the airport. i can't think of anyone that i know who takes the train into and through the continent (exc for paris and perhaps brussels). people will fly because it is usually extremely cheap or they will take their cars over.

only very recently (within the last 3 or so years) did many suburban london lines replace their "slam door" trains which were about 50 years old. you had to open the window to reach outside to open the door...very archaic. with no central locking on the doors, this was a dangerous situation.

trains in england are well known for delays for reasons like too much heat, leaves in the autumn, ice, etc. suicides on the rails are quite common and cause many delays and trauma to train drivers.

so much exhaust, petrol burn, and traffic jams are caused by the morning "school run" in the uk (a very large percentage of people outside of large cities drive their children to school) so i think we are forgetting one important feature of american public transport, the yellow school bus.

i don't really agree with the distance argument, however. the EU does cover large distances...not as large as the US but not so different as to explain completely different transport patterns. eastern US is densely populated and cities are rather close together in a way that is not dissimilar to europe. anyway, as stated, air travel is extremely popular in europe as well as the US.

once again, we see europe romanticised to the point that it is unrecognisable to those of us who actually live here.

"Please remember that the trains in Europe are often dirty or late."

Perhaps you can refresh my memory? Such a blanket statement is clearly backed up by statistics.

My post was not intended as an indictment of European trains in general or Eurostar in particular, as I usually enjoy the ride, but they have serious gaps in their staff training that need to be addressed. Between my husband and I, we have hundreds of Eurostar rides under our belts and the number of significant problems has been overall quite low. I will be heading to Brussels via Eurostar again this week-end and am still looking forward to the journey despite Monday night's screwup.

Nor do I find European trains "dirty and late", at least not on most of my Belgian, Austrian, Swiss or German trips. In the UK, the quality is all over the map, some routes are managed quite well, others...not so much.

Given the choice, I'd still rather take the train in Europe than fly. One of my favorite trips is the 9+ hour day journey from Cologne to Vienna on the ICE.

>>>>
My post was not intended as an indictment of European trains in general
>>>>>

nor was my post...as always, nothing is perfect. i find taking the train much more enjoyable than flying and i do take the eurostar to paris rather than fly. for longer journeys into europe from the UK, the train almost never adds up. the purpose of my post is not to say that european trains are "crap"...just that they are far from the romanticised view that is often given on this board.

It depends what you mean by "European trains". The suburban service I get into London every day is pretty bloody awful.

The TGV/Thalys type trains are pretty bloody spiffing. There's no comparison.

It's also a much nicer way to travel, none of that checking in and checking out nonsense, you can take your own food and drink, get up and wander about, go to the bar and have a beer, and look out the window and see the views.

Personally I prefer it to the plane for most trips, but I live very handily placed for the Eurostar, so that informs my decision. I may feel different If I lived in (heaven forbid!) the North etc.

I take Eurostar a couple of times a month, so here are unscientific stats purely from my observations. Overall, I found late arrival stats to be better than flying between London-Paris. As for cleanliness, they can do up their seats (looking somewhat tired) a bit, but much better than london commuter trains or NJ transit or Amtrak. Agree their staffs are undertrained in general.

Late arrival seems to occur more frequently on late afternoon departures from Paris, the standard excuse being delay of the incoming train. Also power failure from topical thunderstorms is not uncommon.
One thing that infuriates me is that they require you to check in 30min before even when you know the incoming trains are delayed. Esp since neither Waterloo or Gare du Nord has adequate seating capacity to handle extra passengers. On the other hand, their louges are great.

Just to clarify, Eurostar has nothing to do with Eurotunnel. Car tunnels are separate from train tunnels. There used to be news reports on how illegal immigrants tried to use the tunnel, which eventually raised staffing and maintenance costs especially for the (lorry) tunnel.

And Italian Eurostar is more like IC, nothing to do with London-Paris-Brussels Eurostar.

Agree with you about the lounges. They are oases of calm and the staff there seem much better trained than the staff on board.

I would suspect that the infuriating check-in requirements are for the same reasons that airlines do it, even when the flights are hours late -- to keep things moving along at an even pace. If they delayed the check-in half an hour, there would be twice as many people trying to check-in at the same time -- for the delayed train and for the next train after that.
For airlines, there are even more constraints -- the check-in staff has a work shift only for certain hours and a lot of airlines only rent a check-in counter for certain hours, so even if a flight is 12 hours late, they have to do everything in their power to get everybody checked in at the original time. Of course major airlines with check-in counters open all day long for any and all flights don't have this same constraint.

>To leap to Amtrak's defense: their trains are obliged to wait for freight trains that take precedence. I understand that European passenger trains use dedicated tracks.

Not really. Only a few high-speed lines built in the last 2 decades are dedicted for passenger trains. 99% of the network is shared by passenger trains with freight trains. The passenger trains have ALWAYS right of way before freight in Germany, Switzerland, France etc. though.

Thanks, altamiro. I stand corrected. And shouldn't humans take precedence over pallets or heaps of coal?

I can really sympathize with hanl's tunnel experience.

When you're in a totally dependent and vulnerable position like in the air or under a large body of water, the Authority Figure vocal quality makes such a difference. An ability to project calm assurance should be condition of employment. I listen VERY carefully to the captain's voice for reassurance during turbulence.

The reason for the delay of this particular train was a fire in a railway electricity cabin or something, right next to the tracks.

And so perhaps there was simply no power to put on lights and A/C, and there was no other way than to let passengers jump out of trains, but that is absolutely no excuse for not informing passsengers about anything and not excusing afterwards. They could also have tried to supply water.

It was on the Belgian news and lots of people complained about the absolute lack of service.

My post was not designed as an indictment of the entire European train system either.

In the US we do have trains, especially along the coasts, that handle a lot of passengers. However, those trains can be more expensive than flying. The train journey from DC to Boston on a regular train takes about 8 hours assuming no delays. If you take the high speed train it is about 6 hours. The plane takes an hour. So, if the train is not competitive, people will take planes.

There is also quite a lot of bus service from DC to NYC (4-5 hours usually if the traffic is OK). That bus ride rates as one of the most boring in the world.

I have taken a lot of European trains over the years (but the one through the Chunnel only twice--back and forth from Paris). Americans tend to over romanticize the trains in Europe. There are problems there with public transport--just as there are in the US. That is what I was trying to point out.

No place is perfect.

Eurostar had its busiest day ever today; passenger volume surged.
I'm traveling this week-end and am glad I already booked my ticket and also that it's a first class ticket. Trains will be crowded!
Anyone with a Eurostar ticket for the next several days should plan on getting to the station well in advance of the usual 30 minutes or so.

WHy did I delay buying those eurotunnel shares?

More delays/suspended travel on Eurostar today due to a fire alert (smoke but no flames and no injuries, fortunately). My husband is down at Waterloo; his train to Brussels should have already left over an hour ago but he can't even get into the check-in area, it's so overcrowded.
Anyway, he's going to try and see how quickly he can get on a train. If it's a long wait, he may just turn around and come home, then try again tomorrow or Wednesday.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/5271784.stm

I was at Gare du Nord an hour ago and I saw that all of the trains to and from Waterloo were running 3 hours late -- but more important, the tunnel security systems worked perfectly. So being late today is a small price to pay.

If only it had been that simple. In fact, at 5 pm, they were still trying to take care of passengers who were booked on Eurostars that were supposed to have left 6 hours earlier. In London, the main Tube entrances to the Eurostar departure area were closed. Once you hit the mob scene at Eurostar you were given a color coded ticket (based on when your train was supposed to leave or have left and also, to a lesser extent, what class of ticket you had). You then had to re-register. The Eurostar staff were pleading with people to rebook for another day if possible. Refunds also were available to anyone who asked, even if they had a nonrefundable ticket.
My husband went straight to the Carte Blanche desk and rebooked for tomorrow afternoon.
Eurostar staff handled this crisis much better than they did the one I cited in my original post. But it was still pretty hectic.