PalenqueBob.....Completely off topic, and in the spirit of curiosity not criticism, why do Americans say "I could care less" when I assume they mean "I could NOT care less" ??

Good question. I've always wanted to ask my British friends is why the definate article is dropped before "hospital" and "university."

Barbara's right- this law applies to England and Wales. Opening hours in Scotland have been much more flexible for years.

(Oh, and while we're on the subject, it's not British football (soccer) fans that have the bad reputation, it's English ones. Scottish football fans (AKA the Tartan Army) have even been awarded the fair play award by UEFA in recognition of their good conduct.)

I realise that I'm taking this thread away from the original topic somewhat but I just want to reinforce hanl's point about Scottish football (i.e. "soccer") fans. I'm not claiming that they're angels but in general they show a pretty high degree of good humour.

I was one of an estimated 80,000 Glasgow
Celtic fans who attended the UEFA Cup Final in Seville in May 2003. All the ingredients were there for potential trouble; the majority of fans didn't have a ticket for the game, a lot (and I mean a LOT) of alcohol was partaken on a baking hot day and finally Celtic went on to lose the game.

Despite this there was only one arrest (following a fight between two brothers) and the fans mande such a positive impression on the city that they were subsequently awarded with Fair Play awards by both FIFA (world football's governing authority) & UEFA (the European equivalent).

Jim

Pausanias

It's because we have more than one hospital and university in the UK ;-)

Even individual towns have more than one.
If I asked a taxi driver to take me to "the hospital", he'd ask me which one.

I've wondered about "I could care less" too.
If you could care less, it means that you already care quite a lot.

As pointed out by others, I apologise for my one use of "British" football fans - when I of course meant English.

I had the pleasure of travelling to Belgium of a ferry the day of an International between the host country and Scotland. The ferry was packed with kilt wearing fans, many of them who seemed to have been partying all night. As a group they were boisterous exuberant and very vocal, but never intimidating. They were out on a trip, and they were determined to enjoy themselves.

I was recently in Portugal and stopped by a traffic cop as one of their normal spot checks. He gave me a very hard time because I didn't have all my documents on me, we went to the station and I thought I was in the clink ! until he saw on my passport I was from Wales.
He changed instantly, became my best mate and let me go with a smile and a wave.
I guess he has some run-ins with the English fans in Albufeira too.
So in terms of football; England have the reputation abroad and not the other home nations.
Muck

Jim, I have heard it suggested that Scottish football fans are only well behaved to show up England fans ? Although English myself, I have absolutely no interest in football of any colour, so couldn't possibly comment. :-)

And on the original subject : it will be nice for England & Wales to have the same civilised hours as Scotland, where you can pop out for a pint at 11.30pm if that's what fits your schedule.

using no "the" before hospital is the convention and is correct in this locality.

"i could care less" is not at all the same idea as this is clearly incorrect no matter where you are. i don't think all americans say this, it's just a common error in the use of the expression.

A few things:

Re Julia's rather glum post: Sadly the sort of chap who wants to spend all day in the pub, spending the housekeeping and then knocks his wife around is already doing those things. His timetable may change, but not his behaviour (Stella Artois is not universally known as "wifebeater" without rather good cause). When we had afternoon closing they used to go to the bookies or working-men's club (or the Carlton or Beefsteak) and then go back to the pub at six.

I saw a rather good article by a young American woman in the Observer on Sunday. She had a theory of the "law of four" which states that people will basically drink for four hours - ie 7-11 (as at present), which may well become 9-1 or 10-2. I think she's onto something. There is after all a limit to how much people can drink.

As to the rather outdated image of the English football fan. Firstly - you're going on past reputation. The FA and the police have made huge steps to tackle this with over 3,000 banning orders and the new "Englandfans" club that you have to have a clean record to join. Sadly, it's not just the posters here who are going on past reputation. Many foreign police forces see the English as a problem and get their retaliation in first. When a bunch of pissed sweatties are dancing in the fountains and mooning people from under their kilts it's seen as harmless fun. If the English do the same thing it's seen as a public order issue. We have sown, now we reap.

The British do drink much more than most - I think that the previous laws were moer hinderence than help with this. However no one knows for sure - and we find out tonight.

I know a young man who was in Copenhagen after an "incident with English football hooligans"

He was chatting with a barman in the square where it took place and said that he'd heard that they'd had trouble.
The barman grinned and said that quite early in the evening there had been several international TV people mooching around in expectation of a riot.
Nothing at all was happening and they were twiddling their thumbs in utter boredom.
Suddenly two lads squared up to each other. It was the sort of situation that soon calms down in normal circumstances. At once several camera crews dashed up and started filming. Then, several lads attracted by the cameras turned up and started scuffling. Well, being shown as a hard man on international telly is pretty cool isn't it?

Oldie - A friend of mine was in France during the '98 World Cup, sitting outside a bar, and some journalists approached the guys at the table next to him and offered them money to start a fight. Thankfully they declined but nevertheless, one has to wonder how much of it - these days - is media hype.

I'm a huge football fan and go to as many games as possible but have yet to try to fight anybody!

Caroline - I hadn't heard that theory before (that Scotland fans behaved well to show up their English counterparts) but it may well be true. I am old enough to remember when Scottish football fans had an absolutely awful reputation & it does seem to me that the Scots' reputation grew as the English one declined.

David - I wouldn't argue with anything you have said & I am well aware that there is a very fine line between one man's boisterous high-jinks & another's loutish behaviour.

As daft as it seems I think that the rather comical appearance of the Tartan Army with their kilts & "See You Jimmy" wigs has helped to enhance their reputation. Compare that with the (undoubtedly unfair) stereotype of the thick-set English yob with his skin-head haircut & bulldog tattoos.

Finally, I have posted this here before, but here is a link to the photo I have on my desktop to remind me of a wonderful trip to Seville;

http://www.celticsupporterassoc.co.uk/sevfansb1.jpg

I'm in there somewhere!

Jim

Fascinating linguistic information from David_West about Stella Artois being called "wifebeater". Here in Canada, among the young and hip -- and perhaps this is true in the US too -- a wifebeater is a sleeveless undershirt (or "vest", UK).

Does anyone remember the law that originally limited pub hours in WW 1? I think it was the Defence of the realm Act, popularly abbreviated to DORA.

Punch cartoons of the '20s showed an officious female snoop, perhaps a drag version of the Home Secretary of the day, accompanied by her repellent daughter Dora. Together they sniffed out after-hours drinking and clubbing.

I read that most, only want to stay open an hour or two later. The law was made because of the many guzzzling pub crawlers who had accidents and they hope the extended hours would help prevent that. Makes no sense to me.

From All Things Considered, 2002:

"I said that Britain's pubs have closed early, ever since World War II.

Our thanks to Charles Day in Bozeman, Montana, Marc James Small in Roanoke, Virginia and Peg Willingham in Arlington, Virginia.

All pointed out that closing the pubs early was a World War I innovation, part of the Defence of the Realm Act. Mr. Day notes that the law was 'affectionately known to the British' by its acronym 'DORA.' The logic of the pub closings was, he writes, 'to keep factory production levels high. Factory workers, particularly the ammunition factory workers, would be home from the pubs at a reasonable hour so that they would show up well rested on the factory floor the next morning.'"

Mimosa. One of the arguements put forward in support of the legislation, was that part of the problem of drunken violence is that at present, every pub is forced to empty at the same time (around 11pm). This means large numbers of drunk and disorderly people all milling about at once. It is hoped that with longer opening times available, not all pubs will empty simultaneously, leading to a more "civilised" drink culture.

While I welcome the extended hours as I always find it absurd that should I go to a show in the evening, I cannot go for a drink afterwards, I cannot see that the longer hours will help the drink related violence much.

Those vests are also nicknamed 'wifebeaters' in the UK.

Julia, as pointed out before, any woman with a violent alchoholic loser for a husband won't find any difference just cos he can now carry on drinking longer in the pub. If fact, he might be out of the house longer instead of bringing further drink home after pub closing.
Anyone in that situation needs to get themselves down to their local refuge now and not wait for drinking times to change.

>>>>
I always find it absurd that should I go to a show in the evening, I cannot go for a drink afterwards
>>>>

it seems that the assumption in this thread is that you can't drink after 11:00 under the old law. this is not at all true. there were plenty of places to drink at least until 1am...and fewer but still many who can serve later.