Last Call for British Pub Hours
 

As of midnight tonight (Nov 24) Britain has abolished its mandatory pub closing hours of 11pm and pubs will now be allowed to be open 24 hours.
As told on BBC - some aspects:

1/3 of pubs are actually expected to remain open after 11pm

winners and losers: winners large pubs owned by corporations - losers mom and pop pubs, what few remain and mini-cab drivers who currently gear up to the 11:20pm (the time often burly men empty the pub after the 'drinking up' time ends) and Indian and Chinese restaurants that currently have a rush of inebriated customers to wolf down the take out food after being booted out of the pubs.
currently pubs ring a bell at 10:50pm and bar staff shouts out 'last orders please' and many people storm the bar and order one or two or three last drinks that they then have 30 minutes to gulp down (which some say leads to binge drinking the young Brits are famous for)
then shortly before 11:20pm it's a yell of drink up ladies and gentlemen
The story goes that the restrictive pub laws were instituted during WWI to make sure workers would be in good shape the next morning to go to war plants - don't know if this is true or not but that's what i heard - maybe some Brit would confirm or not confirm this?
WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE NEW PUB LAWS?
Personally i could care less as i don't plan to be in a pub later than 11pm - but in my younger days touring UK there were many times i would have. I guess i think it's a good thing and let folks drink when they want. Some experts think the new hours would lessen binge drinking??? Don't know about this.
So tonight the last orders call will come at 10:50pm, every will get the boot at 11:20pm and then the pubs that want to will reopen at midnight and never have to close.

The 11pm last call is a bizarre concept to me.

In my younger days, we often wouldn't even leave the house to go out until after 11pm. The headliners at bars/clubs usually didn't start playing until after midnight.

I hope it frees up the tables at lunch. Many times I've stopped at a pub a few minutes after twelve and found every table taken -- and held against all comers until the afternoon closing. Got pretty hungry. I don't know if I was correct in blaming this on the need to drink while the drinking was good, but I hope more liberal hours lessens the effect.

Speaking personally – it’s about time. I thoroughly resent being told when I can and can’t have a beer. I also think it will help with the binge drinking.

At present there is a race against the clock in the pub – and this leads to both drinking fast and also people opting for strong drinks as opposed to beers etc.

I think it will help with the tourist trade, as it is simply farcical that you can’t have a relaxing drink after a show or concert. Foreigners are just plain baffled by this.

I also think it will take a little while to calm down and that the government has been a bit daft in introducing it a month before Christmas, so that all the office party crowd (amateur drinkers the lot of ‘em) will cause mayhem. It would IMHO have been sensible to wait until the new year.

However the government seems to have a habit of making laws that I would have loved twenty years ago now that I have no interest in doing the previously illegal things (late night drinking, smoking dope etc etc).

"The story goes that the restrictive pub laws were instituted during WWI to make sure workers would be in good shape the next morning to go to war plants - don't know if this is true or not but that's what i heard - maybe some Brit would confirm or not confirm this?"

'Tis true

"I hope it frees up the tables at lunch. Many times I've stopped at a pub a few minutes after twelve and found every table taken -- and held against all comers until the afternoon closing. Got pretty hungry. I don't know if I was correct in blaming this on the need to drink while the drinking was good, but I hope more liberal hours lessens the effect."

This has nothing to do with pub opening hours and everything to do with it being lunchtime.

My view? The media is getting truly hysterical about this and forecasts blood running in the streets as a result of a couple of pubs opening an extra hour or 2. A few younguns will get overexcited about it for a few weeks and then all the fuss will die down. We've always been able to drink beyond 11 anyway (e.g. clubs, bars serving food), and this law by no means means that all pubs are leaving their doors open 24 hours a day. Most pubs seem to be content to stick to current opening hours, some have taken the opportunity to extend their opening hours by an hour or so and a teeny handful have applied for 24 hour licences. Whether they'll actually make full use of these licences, we'll see.

Storm in a beer glass I say.

You're all describing PRECISELY what B Liar, the brewery industry and the next leader of the Conservative party insist isn't going to happen.

In their fantasy world (oddly, Cameron is a sensible bloke in every other respect except that he's still in hock to the bar business) virtually no pubs are going to open any differently from the way they operate today. They'll just find it a bit easier to extend their hours on New Year's Eve, or whatever, our masters and the politicians they manipulate tell us.

And those pink things where the pigeons usually fly are all Gloucester Old Spots.

Politicians never stop promising us the latest round of pub hour extensions will finally kill binge drinking. And booze consumption (growing faster in Britain than in any other affluent country) grows every time our gullible legislators do as their beerage sponsors tell them.

Meanwhile just about every main street in the country gets close to becoming a no-go zone for honest citizens every Friday and Saturday night.
I'm not talking Anal Street, Manchester. The Chipping Slaughter Market Streets are awash with vomit by 2200 practically every weekend of the year.

The good news about this nonsense is that it'll be B Liar's Poll Tax. The bad news is that it'll be egg all over Cameron's face from the moment he wins his new job (nowhere typifies the Chipping Slaughter problem better than his constituency, Witney).

The problem's very stark. Britons can't hold their drink, and British politicians are too frit to admit it. And tourists will regret these silly new laws almost as much as we will.

"This has nothing to do with pub opening hours and everything to do with it being lunchtime."

I think I allowed for "the lunchtime. effect," but sorry to hear I'm probably wrong.

Actually, you mentioned afternoon closing - which was dispensed with many many years ago, so if you've struggled to get a seat at lunchtime then it'll certainly be because it's lunch, and not because the people are panicking that the pub's about to close.

I get the impression that at least for a short time, the police are going to employ zero tolerance.
This might not be a bad thing.
As to whether we are going to become all civilised and European, that's another thing.

I feel really sorry for all the wives who already regularly have drunk husbands rolling home at 11pm. Now who knows when those drunken husbands will get home, so much more the worse for wear, and what anguish and horrors await those wives, and maybe their children too.

I also think of those who are already struggling financially - with men spending more in the pubs just because they can, due to longer opening hours, there are going to be many more problems with finding the money for food, rent, heating, and the basic necessities of life. I wonder what sort of Christmas some people are going to have...

I suspect that women's refuges are going to be busier than ever from now on.

"Actually, you mentioned afternoon closing - which was dispensed with many many years ago,"

Ah! That explains it. I was thinking about my experiences in the late Eighties. Haven't lived there since, and my short visits haven't included country pub lunches.

Some country pubs still close in the afternoons. But only because there is a business reason - few customers about.

Way back when my ex and I discovered afternoon teas in the posh London hotels. He reluctantly joined me for tea but soon noticed all the gin/tonics and whiskys being served. Never had a problem dragging him to tea after that.

I remember the first time I went back to the UK after pubs started staying open all day - it was a culture shock.

is it just me or do plenty of pubs already stay open until 1:00? i realise that some pubs still close at 11:00 but many currently have late licences. most yates and the like stay open well past 11:00. therefore, i do not think that there will be a big cultural shock. my guess is that most people will not notice any difference. i do agree with flanner that something needs to be done...drink related problems are out of hand and have become much worse over the last several years.

I agree with the lager lout problem even though i'm a casual tourist - i go regularly to many European countries where the drinking age for beer is often 16 and that is not really enforced. My French son was buying beer at Carrefour since he was 14 and never got carded. And not to say that binge drinking isn't a problem in France but in UK like Flanner says after 11pm it's a drunken scene in many towns i've been in.
Q - why do British youths seem to get drunker than they Continental counterparts - at least in public and raise havoc - the streets of some towns the next day look like a war zone.
I was especially struck in Berwick-on-Tweed last summer at the number of young girls staggering around - also struck by the extremely short mini skirts they were flaunting themselves in. Something i also never see on the Continent.
And when Brit football fans go abroad why do they get so pissed and cause so much violence due to booze. Again i know Dutch fans, etc. can also be exuberant but Brits seem much more so.
What's the sociological take on this?

A couple of points, mostly rehasings of some already made. In my local area, I don't think there is one pub that has opted for 24 hour licencing. Most have extended their weekend times from 11pm until 12:30 or 1pm.

The all day opening faded away in all but town centre pubs near where I live. On a weekday, nearly all the pubs in scenic locations are closed until 5:30 or 6pm.

British football fans - I have no idea at all, despite being a season ticket holder. It seems as a nation, as supporters, wee cannot resist being clannish, little englanders singing "no surrender to the IRA".

There are some double standards in thjat English fans are judged differently because of the known problems. A disturbance among a few bars on the south coast of Portugal during the last european championship appeared to result in deportation for any british male within a half kilometre radius. wheres a riot of an estimated 3000 Turkish fans in which several stores were looted was surprisingly described as "high spirits. There have been incidents of violence with Germans and Dutch fans, some leading to deaths. I make no apologies for my fellow England supporters, on the whole, the behaviour of some at overseas games leaves a lot to be desired.

About bl**dy time.

Mind you, I do think that it's handy to be told when to go home.... :-)

Personally I believe that the law change makes sense.
It simply gives the landlords flexibility to open when they want to, it doesn't mean every pub will now stay open all the time.
My local has applied for the new licence but will only use it on certain days christmas new years and times when they would normally apply for an extension to their existing licence.

City center pubs will no doubt be affected most and there is provision to take away licences from those landlords who are not responsible in their operation.Believe me this subject has been blown out of all proportion by the media as usual and I suspect that in a couple of months, after christmas all this fuss will be forgotten about.

The people I feel for are the staff who may be expected to stay later than they might like to.

The main thing to consider is that brits are so set in their ways that you will find most of them leave the pub at 11pm as usual.

For many pubs of course the 'lock in' was a way of life I guess that little bit of rebelliousness will now be gone.

Interesting subject and one we will follow closely.

Muck

What a positive image you have of men Julia (husbands in particular).........

Just found this on BBC news.
Puts the fuss into perspective, I think.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/4463182.stm

Muck

This new law applies only to England and Wales, not "Britain".

PalenqueBob.....Completely off topic, and in the spirit of curiosity not criticism, why do Americans say "I could care less" when I assume they mean "I could NOT care less" ??

Good question. I've always wanted to ask my British friends is why the definate article is dropped before "hospital" and "university."

Barbara's right- this law applies to England and Wales. Opening hours in Scotland have been much more flexible for years.

(Oh, and while we're on the subject, it's not British football (soccer) fans that have the bad reputation, it's English ones. Scottish football fans (AKA the Tartan Army) have even been awarded the fair play award by UEFA in recognition of their good conduct.)

I realise that I'm taking this thread away from the original topic somewhat but I just want to reinforce hanl's point about Scottish football (i.e. "soccer") fans. I'm not claiming that they're angels but in general they show a pretty high degree of good humour.

I was one of an estimated 80,000 Glasgow
Celtic fans who attended the UEFA Cup Final in Seville in May 2003. All the ingredients were there for potential trouble; the majority of fans didn't have a ticket for the game, a lot (and I mean a LOT) of alcohol was partaken on a baking hot day and finally Celtic went on to lose the game.

Despite this there was only one arrest (following a fight between two brothers) and the fans mande such a positive impression on the city that they were subsequently awarded with Fair Play awards by both FIFA (world football's governing authority) & UEFA (the European equivalent).

Jim

Pausanias

It's because we have more than one hospital and university in the UK ;-)

Even individual towns have more than one.
If I asked a taxi driver to take me to "the hospital", he'd ask me which one.

I've wondered about "I could care less" too.
If you could care less, it means that you already care quite a lot.

As pointed out by others, I apologise for my one use of "British" football fans - when I of course meant English.

I had the pleasure of travelling to Belgium of a ferry the day of an International between the host country and Scotland. The ferry was packed with kilt wearing fans, many of them who seemed to have been partying all night. As a group they were boisterous exuberant and very vocal, but never intimidating. They were out on a trip, and they were determined to enjoy themselves.

I was recently in Portugal and stopped by a traffic cop as one of their normal spot checks. He gave me a very hard time because I didn't have all my documents on me, we went to the station and I thought I was in the clink ! until he saw on my passport I was from Wales.
He changed instantly, became my best mate and let me go with a smile and a wave.
I guess he has some run-ins with the English fans in Albufeira too.
So in terms of football; England have the reputation abroad and not the other home nations.
Muck

Jim, I have heard it suggested that Scottish football fans are only well behaved to show up England fans ? Although English myself, I have absolutely no interest in football of any colour, so couldn't possibly comment. :-)

And on the original subject : it will be nice for England & Wales to have the same civilised hours as Scotland, where you can pop out for a pint at 11.30pm if that's what fits your schedule.

using no "the" before hospital is the convention and is correct in this locality.

"i could care less" is not at all the same idea as this is clearly incorrect no matter where you are. i don't think all americans say this, it's just a common error in the use of the expression.

A few things:

Re Julia's rather glum post: Sadly the sort of chap who wants to spend all day in the pub, spending the housekeeping and then knocks his wife around is already doing those things. His timetable may change, but not his behaviour (Stella Artois is not universally known as "wifebeater" without rather good cause). When we had afternoon closing they used to go to the bookies or working-men's club (or the Carlton or Beefsteak) and then go back to the pub at six.

I saw a rather good article by a young American woman in the Observer on Sunday. She had a theory of the "law of four" which states that people will basically drink for four hours - ie 7-11 (as at present), which may well become 9-1 or 10-2. I think she's onto something. There is after all a limit to how much people can drink.

As to the rather outdated image of the English football fan. Firstly - you're going on past reputation. The FA and the police have made huge steps to tackle this with over 3,000 banning orders and the new "Englandfans" club that you have to have a clean record to join. Sadly, it's not just the posters here who are going on past reputation. Many foreign police forces see the English as a problem and get their retaliation in first. When a bunch of pissed sweatties are dancing in the fountains and mooning people from under their kilts it's seen as harmless fun. If the English do the same thing it's seen as a public order issue. We have sown, now we reap.

The British do drink much more than most - I think that the previous laws were moer hinderence than help with this. However no one knows for sure - and we find out tonight.

I know a young man who was in Copenhagen after an "incident with English football hooligans"

He was chatting with a barman in the square where it took place and said that he'd heard that they'd had trouble.
The barman grinned and said that quite early in the evening there had been several international TV people mooching around in expectation of a riot.
Nothing at all was happening and they were twiddling their thumbs in utter boredom.
Suddenly two lads squared up to each other. It was the sort of situation that soon calms down in normal circumstances. At once several camera crews dashed up and started filming. Then, several lads attracted by the cameras turned up and started scuffling. Well, being shown as a hard man on international telly is pretty cool isn't it?

Oldie - A friend of mine was in France during the '98 World Cup, sitting outside a bar, and some journalists approached the guys at the table next to him and offered them money to start a fight. Thankfully they declined but nevertheless, one has to wonder how much of it - these days - is media hype.

I'm a huge football fan and go to as many games as possible but have yet to try to fight anybody!

Caroline - I hadn't heard that theory before (that Scotland fans behaved well to show up their English counterparts) but it may well be true. I am old enough to remember when Scottish football fans had an absolutely awful reputation & it does seem to me that the Scots' reputation grew as the English one declined.

David - I wouldn't argue with anything you have said & I am well aware that there is a very fine line between one man's boisterous high-jinks & another's loutish behaviour.

As daft as it seems I think that the rather comical appearance of the Tartan Army with their kilts & "See You Jimmy" wigs has helped to enhance their reputation. Compare that with the (undoubtedly unfair) stereotype of the thick-set English yob with his skin-head haircut & bulldog tattoos.

Finally, I have posted this here before, but here is a link to the photo I have on my desktop to remind me of a wonderful trip to Seville;

http://www.celticsupporterassoc.co.uk/sevfansb1.jpg

I'm in there somewhere!

Jim

Fascinating linguistic information from David_West about Stella Artois being called "wifebeater". Here in Canada, among the young and hip -- and perhaps this is true in the US too -- a wifebeater is a sleeveless undershirt (or "vest", UK).

Does anyone remember the law that originally limited pub hours in WW 1? I think it was the Defence of the realm Act, popularly abbreviated to DORA.

Punch cartoons of the '20s showed an officious female snoop, perhaps a drag version of the Home Secretary of the day, accompanied by her repellent daughter Dora. Together they sniffed out after-hours drinking and clubbing.

I read that most, only want to stay open an hour or two later. The law was made because of the many guzzzling pub crawlers who had accidents and they hope the extended hours would help prevent that. Makes no sense to me.

From All Things Considered, 2002:

"I said that Britain's pubs have closed early, ever since World War II.

Our thanks to Charles Day in Bozeman, Montana, Marc James Small in Roanoke, Virginia and Peg Willingham in Arlington, Virginia.

All pointed out that closing the pubs early was a World War I innovation, part of the Defence of the Realm Act. Mr. Day notes that the law was 'affectionately known to the British' by its acronym 'DORA.' The logic of the pub closings was, he writes, 'to keep factory production levels high. Factory workers, particularly the ammunition factory workers, would be home from the pubs at a reasonable hour so that they would show up well rested on the factory floor the next morning.'"

Mimosa. One of the arguements put forward in support of the legislation, was that part of the problem of drunken violence is that at present, every pub is forced to empty at the same time (around 11pm). This means large numbers of drunk and disorderly people all milling about at once. It is hoped that with longer opening times available, not all pubs will empty simultaneously, leading to a more "civilised" drink culture.

While I welcome the extended hours as I always find it absurd that should I go to a show in the evening, I cannot go for a drink afterwards, I cannot see that the longer hours will help the drink related violence much.

Those vests are also nicknamed 'wifebeaters' in the UK.

Julia, as pointed out before, any woman with a violent alchoholic loser for a husband won't find any difference just cos he can now carry on drinking longer in the pub. If fact, he might be out of the house longer instead of bringing further drink home after pub closing.
Anyone in that situation needs to get themselves down to their local refuge now and not wait for drinking times to change.

>>>>
I always find it absurd that should I go to a show in the evening, I cannot go for a drink afterwards
>>>>

it seems that the assumption in this thread is that you can't drink after 11:00 under the old law. this is not at all true. there were plenty of places to drink at least until 1am...and fewer but still many who can serve later.