Languages...choosing one!
 

Many of us come back from our trips stating we are going to learn a language from our travels. Rarely, at least from people, I have spoken to, have we followed through.

In order to further my career, I think I need to re-learn, or learn from scratch, a language.

My question is...based on the global market and your travels, which language would be the first one to concentrate on.

The choices (and feel free to interject) are as follows:

German
French
Spanish (Latin American or Spain)
Mandarin Chinese.

I would love to learn Italian because it was my grandfather's native tongue, but that would be more for pleasure rather than for business.

Suggestions?

French and or Spanish, no-one speaks German and the Germans generally speak good English and Mandarin is tonal and has nothing to do with any European language, so would be very difficult.

Mandarin was more of a business idea (not something I would enjoy at all).

As for the differences in Spanish, I noticed obvious differences in the High School spanish I learned and the words I heard in Granada last month.

Anyone have thoughts on which style you should learn. I guess the better question is, which spanish is EASIER TO ADAPT TO IF YOU KNOW THE OTHER AS THE PRIMARY SPANISH?!

Finally, anyone every use Rosetta Stone?

Arabic

There is no shortage of native English speakers who are also fluent in French or Spanish. I would opt for something that's important but much less frequently spoken by native English speakers.

That being said, I'm sure Arabic is a difficult language to learn, if only for its alphabet, which makes it much less obviously accessible.

But, you would really set yourself apart if you spoke Arabic.

I'd like to comment on Arabic. I don't think it would give the most bang-for-the-buck as perhaps Chinese, Spanish or Japanese would. Many to most upper class and businesspeople in the Arab World either learned English in school or learned it later. It's valuable to the U.S. Government, but I'm not sure it's as worth it as another language choice for business.

It completely depends on what your business is, but my top two suggestions would be Spanish or Chinese. Spanish if you were looking to sell to new groups of consumers in the U.S. or the Americas (not necessarily business-owner interaction, but actual consumer interaction), and Chinese if you were looking to do business with the Chinese. You'd have less consumer-level interaction in China.

IMO it would be very helpful to know what kind of "career" you have, i.e., what kind of work you do and most importantly, the likelihood of needing any of the languages you have mentioned.

I assume there might be more likelihood of needing one over another, or is there?

If you were working mainly in some parts of the US I would definitely recommend Spanish, for example.

This completely depends on your career, I think you should ask other people in your field, your boss, etc. For many people, only Chinese or Arabic could be useful in their careers. Spanish could be for many careers (certainly social service jobs) if you live in an area with a lot of Spanish speakers. French would be for many people who might work in technology or pharmaceuticals or some industry where they might have to work with French-speaking people a lot. German would be if you actually want to get a job in Germany, I don't think one can say it isn't necessary. I have a friend who tried to get a job in Germany because his wife is German and they wanted to move back there, and he couldn't get hired because he's not fluent in German. Why would a German company hire someone who can't speak German and communicate with everyone around him?

So, I really think this question can't be answered in a vacuum, and completely depends on your career. As for Spanish accents, many are different (I have some trouble understanding some in Argentina or Colombia vs. Spain or even Mexico, for example), but that's getting way ahead of yourself in terms of learning a language fluently just in terms of grammar, vocabulary, etc. If you learn to speak Spanish well in a standard way, you could be understood by others, most likely.

If you are serious about learning a language well enough to be fluent or use it in a career, I don't think you can do it with CDs.

Lawyer. And most lawyers refuse to learn a language because they are either lazy or dont have the time. I am neither.

My interaction would be client based...business.

And clients, of course, would be of all different spectrums (construction, start up biz, technology, pharamcutical, etc.).

The CD's btw, are just a start so I can get going and go into conversational langauge courses, one on one, with an instructor.

English ;)

I agree with most of what has been said above, particularly Christina's post.

I think that Spanish would be the obvious choice, although as others have said, it does depend on your line of work.And it'd give you a great excuse to travel to Spain - they have some great language schools/programmes for foreigners.

I'm sure Chinese would be fascinating and a great asset, but the learning curve would be very steep and I can imagine it costing you a lot of work and frustration for relatively little "measurable" progress.

Can you tell us a bit more about your current line of work or sector?

Sorry pmgoosed, I was writing my reply at the same time as you.

Corporate lawyer? If so, ensure you learn more than simply conversant [language] -- you will need to learn the language at a business level. If you are with a large firm, your firm should pick up that cost.

Spanish would be number one choice. Followed by French. But that is based on the places I like most to travel.

I wouldn't worry about the nuances of regional variations just yet -LOL! Just get started studying something. *Especially* if you are serious about getting it to a level you could conduct business in, that takes years.

p.s. You can count me as one of those people who actually DO study languages both before and after trips. I have no expectation of fluency by continue to build both Spanish and French at an extremely basic but helpful tourist level.

Very easy answer (after the subsequent information you provided)... learn whatever language is the one that the majority of your clients speak! Which one is that?

I agree with Christina. If you learn standard Spanish, you'll have no problem. Problems arise when people speak using too much slang.

I am native speaker of Spanish (Venezuela). I once rented a mexican movie and fortunately it came with titles in English because people on it used so much slang when talking, that sometimes I had a hard time trying to understand what they were saying.

In terms of accent, they vary from country to country. Even inside a country, accents vary from region to region. Just as it happens with English.

In Venezuela, there are around 5 kinds of accents. Of course, we all understand each other, but they are all very different. I speak with the central region accent, which is considered to be standard.

I speak american English because in Latin America we're more exposed to that one, and after 15 years of travelling to the US, watching TV in English and dealing with that culture, I still can't say that I've mastered the language.

When I decided to learn a second language, I chose Italian, first, because my mother is from Italy and second, because it's spoken in Italy and the southern part of Switzerland, so I knew I wansn't going to have such a hard time with slang. Of course, in Italy every region has its linguistics particularities, but I think that languages such as Spanish are harder to learn. Not because the language itself is more difficult than others, but because it's spoken in so many countries and it's such a rich language, that mastering it would take a lot of time.

When you learn a language, you also learn the culture of the people who speak it, and, even though in Latin America we all consider ourselves to be "siblings", believe me, we aren't, we're more like cousins. You can find some similarities in terms of culture if you compare Colombia and Venezuela, but if you put together an argentinian, a mexican, a spaniard and a venezuelan, the only thing they'll have in common is the language, that's it.

I hope this doesn't disencourage you to learn Spanish. I think it is a beautiful language and I feel very lucky for being able to speak it. I just wanted to give you my personal opinion being a native speaker of Spanish.

I've learnt French out of necessity and think I should study Spanish but I've decided to take Chinese for the challenage.

"Tell me more" is a wonderful DVD system for learning languages which helps to correct your pronunciation

Thanks everyone. As for specifics, MichelleNYC and suze, I am trying to move from a high level/profile Govt position to a huge corporate firm with clients world wide. Every firm is different, hence why I am torn between Chinese, French (EU, Olympic, UN official language), and Spanish.

As for picking up the cost, I need to get enough knowledge on my own to sell a firm on the idea of "hey, i am this good...if you hire me and pay for the lessons you will get a good attny and someone ahead of the game in language...so it is worth your while to both hire me and pay for my advanced courses."

From a practical standpoint, particularly in parts of the US, Spanish would seem to be the obvious choice. Ironically, due to that reason, we are attempting to get our oldest in a language immersion school to take French. As we believe it will improve her chances of getting in (in lieu of choosing Spanish). In most of the EU countries, English is at the very least the 2nd language, if not the first.

The two people I know personally who work professionally in Europe, French is what they need... second to English.

I am also a lawyer, and have been a partner in a major international law firm, doing deals in six continents, in dozens of countries. The only countries where we had to hire translators were Russia and China -- in all the other countries where I did deals and where English was not the primary language, like Spain, Brazil, Thailand, Indonesia -- the businesspeople all spoke English, and meetings were conducted in English.

Again, and even more so now that I understand you are a lawyer, I would recommend Arabic, or Mandarin, since that's where I think the international deals will be.

Rosetta Stone is very popular as a supplement to classroom learning. I have had several students use the Russian version and really enjoy it, but I don't think it can take the place of a teacher.

There is a shortage of Russian & English speakers according to the US gov't... but don't bother learning Russian, I'd rather give the opportunity to my own students. :)

(Kidding, obviously...)

%%-

As a corporate lawyer with an international law firm, my honest and best recommendation would be to first speak with a legal recruiter to find out if the language skills would appreciably assist you in moving into the private sector. I don't know if you have a specific law firm in mind, or you are simply making yourself more marketable up front. If you're fairly high up in the government and you want to lateral into a law firm at a senior associate/counsel level, their primary considerations are going to be your relevant work experience - NOT your language skills - unless you also have the work experience to pair with the international work you're trying to get hired to do. Language skills are just a bonus, but RARELY the determining factor in whether to hire a lateral candidate. Unless you make it clear that you're willing to come in at a much junior level, the language skills alone would not be enough.

And, unless your interests are in being local counsel on international deals not involving the US, the negotiations and contracts will generally occur in English. I've done and seen dozens of international corporate deals - they're always done in English. So, some of the client contacts may be in the native language, but English is generally the language used.

However, if you still wanted to learn a language to advance in the global business economy, I'd say Mandarin. But I don't think that you'll be able to sell a large firm on paying for your lessons (even if you've started on your own) from the beginning of your employment unless your government experience was in a field that dovetails well with that international practice and they think the language skills are worth it. Their primary considerations in you as a lateral candidate would be your work experience or the government expertise you could bring to the firm.

Russian...shudder! Spent four years at University including a year in Moscow and at the end could barely hold a conversation with a five year old.

Tooo complicated. Verbal aspects, verbs of motion, three genders, fully declined with six case, no articles or verb "to be", and no familiar latin looking works...

French on the other hand is like falling off a log.

For no other preferences, I think French is much easier than Spanish, as someone noted above. I just think the grammar and verbs and a lot of it is so much easier than Spanish which has so many irregularities and too many different ways of saying something. I know some people always say Spanish is easier than French, but when I ask them why they say that, they usually don't know either one very well, and just say something about the pronunciation. Well, maybe so, a little, but that isn't the core part of a language to trump everything else to me. I was speaking at a party with a woman who teaches both French and Spanish in high school, and she agree with me, also, that she thought Spanish was a more difficult language.

In any case, I know some govt lawyers and have done consulting work to some law firms, and I agree you really need to talk to someone about this because, while I think it is admirable to learn another language (for fulfillment or travel), I would say the idea that you are going to get paid more or something because of that is highly unlikely and it won't happen quickly.

First, it takes years and years to learn a language fluently. Law isn't debatable, you couldn't depend on someone making mistakes and actually conducting much business in a foreign language unless they really knew what they were saying. It might come in handy in patent law, for reading, actually, and reading is not as difficult as learning to speak fluently.

Many corporations may cover education costs for anyone for anything, if it can be somewhat justified that it may enhance their job. This shouldn't be too difficult, if it can be. That is on a course by course approval basis, though. However, the costs of language classes are really not very much and shouldn't be some major issue for a lawyer. I take language classes after work most of the year (at least 6-9 months), and pay for them myself without hardship. They are only a few hundred dollars.

pmgoosed- I would just start something asap. Doesn't matter which one (although I still vote for either French or Spanish). See how it goes. For success in this, I think you need to find the right language for your brain, and your situation.

I would also recommend to start with a class, not tapes or CD. I think personal interaction is very important. Even a simple 8 weeks class aimed at travelers at a community college would be good imo.

waring:
Russian isn't so hard, but I do appreciate people keeping up that perception in the world... it gives my students that many more opportunities to show off... :)

I, personally, hate the thought of learning to fall off a log... kinda dull.

%%-

No matter what you read here, your professional needs and the implications of your language choice (if you end up making the effort) on your career are something none of us here can ascertain.

That said, Spanish will be the easiest to learn. And if you want to do it the Europe-Spanish way (Castilian, with the fussy th etc.), you already know how to say that.

French comes much less easily to American tongues. Just try to roll the r, and learn the three or four ways to say "I don't know" (je ne sais pas - which hardly anybody actually says that way).

If you did advanced Latin or ancient Greek in school, the endings etc. in Russian or French or German won't scare you, that's just how most Latin-derived languages function. English is a lazy exception in that regard, but it has its own trickiness, of course, mostly due to inconsistences (how many ways to pronounce -ough for example, or how many ways to spell the sound made by the letters earn - urn - ern - ?).

Research your own field first, then make a big commitment and stick to it. Daily practice will do it, anything else - you will be kidding yourself.

Much good advice. Do consider that language, any language is simply a tool. Consequently, your time could be spent more profitably learning foreign business practices and their local customs. The UN is staffed and operating with people who only know one language but are experts about their own countries. Recreation! learn Italian!

Katya, do I get the impression you are Russian?
I meant no criticism of the Russian language, I think it is beautiful, much more so than French, which is rather monotonous.
I can still understand it pretty well and impress the hell out of people with my rendition of "Respected passengers, attention the doors are closing......." announcement that you hear on the Moscow subway.

"Just try to roll the r"
A trick I learned in France, aim for a "g" and miss slightly.

Je ne sais pas= ché pa.

Personally, I recommend learning German; however, please keep in mind that I'm biased, given that I just returned from Oktoberfest :)
Also, I've heard my friends say that German is a relatively easy language to pick up, so it may be a good place to start.

<<Je ne sais pas= ché pa>>

In French comics, less formal written articles in magazines or elsehwere, this is usually transcribed as "chais pas" The last word doesn't change, it's the same.

If the Chinese manufacturing juggernaut continues into the 21st century, and one envisions oneself as an international business leader: Mandarin.

Assuming one has the aural acuity to distinguish the 4 'tones' of spoken Mandarin, the spoken language is actually relatively simple. No tenses. No genders. No plurals. Grammar is pretty much just word-order, much like English. Vocabulary starts with one-syllable 'particles' which are expressive in and of themselves, and which when combined can express complex concepts.

The stumbling block for me with Mandarin was always the *written* language. In fact, I was once (thanks to the military language training I was sent to) verbally quite fluent in Mandarin, but completely illiterate, except for a very recognizing a few simple characters.

I also studied, and gained near-native fluency in German. I love the language, and speak it still whenever I have the chance....but it's not terrifically useful outside of Germany, or maybe the Czech Republic. At least I'm fully literate in German!

Fritzrl

Regarding your inquiry about Rosetta Stone: I highly recommend using this software. Although I've never actually used it myself, the college where I taught used it for the students and they all loved it, stating that it was easy to use and learn from. I would suggest checking it out at a local college library first, to ensure that the software will meet your needs. This way, you'll save you a few bucks...giving you more money to spend for travel, right?

As a lawyer, i would be worried about relying too much on my imperfect knowledge of any foreign language spoken by a client, except in the most casual social situation. It's all too easy to misunderstand instructions even when you are both speaking your native tongue, let alone when one of you is practising your 2nd or 3rd language.
I would concentrate on a language you really like the sound or feel of; learning any foreign language will enrich your own. If you get good enough to use it professionally, that's a bonus.

One of the more effective uses of a foreign language in business is not letting on that you know the language. Surprising what you can learn when they make asides in their native tongue, unaware that you understand.

I am proud of having learned German, in part because it was the native tongue of so many of my ancestors. But in truth, none of them would have spoken the standard “Schriftdeutsch” that I learned. They all spoke dialects.

And, pmgoosed, that is probably your case as well. Like Germany, Italy is primarily a country of dialects. If you spoke standard Italian, you grandfather might not have understood you.

According to surveys by the European Union, German, including native speakers, is the most commonly spoken first or second language in the EU (even more than English). It is also the most commonly spoken second language, after English. Although 50% of Germans say they can speak English, compared to 32% of French, 28% of Italians, and 20% of Spanish, because of their larger population, there are almost as many Germans who don’t speak English, and therefore opportunities to practice, as any other language.

Ultimately, it comes down to where you want to travel. My German won’t do me much good in most of Italy. Spanish won’t get you very far in Europe except for in Spain.

And, at the risk of offending some, worldwide, English is the most important, maybe the only important, language in the world. Many times in Europe, I have seen people, neither of whom speaks English as a first language, communicating in English because that is the one language they both know.

..my next language will be Hindi...or at least I will make a stab at it...