I'd dispute the statement that everyone in Scotland speaks English. At a car rental place in Irvine I had absolutely no idea what the gentleman said - perhaps he was speaking Welsh?

As for the Welsh...............

Mucky has given me a fridge magnet with the Welsh National Anthem - apparently it's in Welsh!

I'll be fine if the Welsh last long enough to meet Australia in the Rugby World Cup! Then I'll only have to sing if if they beat us!

I'm not worried :)

"<i>At a car rental place in Irvine I had absolutely no idea what the gentleman said . . .</i>"

That's OK -- he didn't understand you either . . .

:)

I'd dispute the statement that everyone in Scotland speaks English. At a car rental place in Irvine I had absolutely no idea what the gentleman said - perhaps he was speaking Welsh?>>

probably english with a very strong scottish accent.

perhaps you should have prepared yourself by watching some episodes of "Taggart"?

>>perhaps you should have prepared yourself by watching some episodes of "Taggart"?<<

Not many tourists need to know how to say "Mrrdr!"

<<Mucky has given me a fridge magnet with the Welsh National Anthem - apparently it's in Welsh! I'll be fine if the Welsh last long enough to meet Australia in the Rugby World Cup! Then I'll only have to sing if if they beat us!>>

You can always sing the English phonetic version written by the Welsh poet Nigel Jenkins:

My hen laid a haddock, one hand oiled a flea,
Glad farts and centurions threw dogs in the sea,
I could stew a hare here and brandish Dan's flan,
Don's ruddy bog's blocked up with sand.

(Chorus)

Dad! Dad! Why don't you oil Auntie Glad?
Can whores appear in beer bottle pies,
O butter the hens as they fly!

So, what is the correct pronunciation of Holborn? Hullbun?

Ho - b'n.

>>perhaps you should have prepared yourself by watching some episodes of "Taggart"?<<

>Not many tourists need to know how to say "Mrrdr!"<

Patrick's correct - I watched Taggart - but it didn't help at all.

You can sure learn a great deal on the internet! ;-) I am working diligently on "Os gwelwch yn dda" and may have a few more down pat by the trip!

laverendrye

I've been sitting here with my fridge magnet and the translation you provided.....When I stopped laughing I started to sound pretty good! Now - if only I had some idea of the tune...... :) I don't suppose it matters??

But - the Wallabies beat the mighty All Blacks on the weekend - I'm still not worried.

>>Now - if only I had some idea of the tune...... :) I don't suppose it matters??<<

Well, yes, actually: it's one of the most roof-raising national song tunes I know:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kUnCwV3AYE

Not a translation of course, but a phonetic version. I think that Jenkins wrote it for non-Welsh speakers (especially politicians) who didn't want to be embarrassed by their lack of Welsh when the anthem was sung--at least their lips would be moving seemingly correctly.

On an extremely serious note, my poor brother-in-law is somewhat hard of hearing. He couldn't understand one darn thing the Scots were saying in English. If you are hard of hearing, I would stay home.

>>I think that Jenkins wrote it for non-Welsh speakers (especially politicians) who didn't want to be embarrassed by their lack of Welsh when the anthem was sung<<

As in:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIwBvjoLyZc

On an extremely serious note, my poor brother-in-law is somewhat hard of hearing. He couldn't understand one darn thing the Scots were saying in English. If you are hard of hearing, I would stay home.>>

cold - could they understand him?

Ann - he kept asking them to speak more clearly. They didn't. So I guess the answer is no.

cold - I agree it's a shame for your BIL.

but whilst not wanting to underestimate the problems faced by the deaf, he was presumably in no worse a position than if he'd been in a country where he didn't speak the language at all.

it must be frustrating to go somewhere where you expect to understand, and find that you don't.

Don't over do it. Just talk really loud in the best accent you can up with.

It's not just the local language, it's the local accent, the slang, the local sayings and the speed it's said at. I'm Scottish and it takes me almost until it's time to come back here to get the hang of it all again. As in the USA, different parts of the UK have different accents, and it is difficult to understand some of them. Don't be afraid of asking people to repeat themselves if you didn't understand them the first time.

I used to have an elderly globetrotting friend (he has since taken the supreme adventure trip) who had been just about everywhere in the world and he once told me that "People in Scotland think they are speaking English but they aren't."

This is very off the subject, and flame me if you must, but a question for those of the Welsh persuasion.....your ancestors/ancestresses used "ap" and "ferch" as part of the patronymic. Using me as a example, Judy ferch Lloyd (my father's given name), would you refer to me in a genealogy program as [surname] ferch Lloyd, [given name] Judy, or would you use [surname] (blank), [given name] Judy ferch Lloyd?

Muchas gracias!

Don't over do it. Just talk really loud in the best accent you can up with.>>

on our first night in Rome, we were sat next to some Mexicans who thought that the best way to communicate with the waiters was to shout at them in spanish.

the funny thing was, it seemed to work!

Jaja: The standard modern form of address for a man is 'Mr. ap Lloyd,' if that helps you decide. I don't know how genealogists handle patronymic names.

Of course, if you speak English loudly enough and slowly enough, anyone should be able to understand you!

tahl, thanks for that. I am not having any luck with asking genealogists (either the answer has nothing to do with the actual question or I get a lecture about proving my sources) and you have added weight to my initial opinion.

As someone who studied indexing rather than genealogy: what matters is consistency and clarity, if necessary providing an introductory note outlining the principle you've adopted (the same applies to Mc/Mac names, for example - group them together or in strict alphabetical order?). If it's just for you, then do whatever you feel most comfortable with.

Thanks, Patrick. You are certainly right about the consistency. Clarity is a bit harder to come by, sometimes, but I'm trying.

I'm glad that fridge magnet comes in handy Margo.
Keep practicing, at the end of the RWC your going to wish you were Welsh :-)
The Welsh team left for NZ today. Took enough jam sandwiches and pop for a 6 week stay.

Not sure if the games are on Free TV, haven't checked. Whatever happens they will be on at times when I should be asleep.

Just emptied the car from our French trip. They like the Welsh over there. I met a sheep in France (as we do) and he had a very strong French accent, I couldn't understand a Baaa he said.


Muck

It's on ITV, Mucky.

Learning the Scots dialet is dangerous. You have got to practice talking with marbles in your mouth. The trick is learning whether the sylable requires you roll around the marble or forcefully spit it out.

@Patrick London:
>>Now - if only I had some idea of the tune...... :) I don't suppose it matters??<<

Well, yes, actually: it's one of the most roof-raising national song tunes I know:

I watched your clip - it is a great tune - however - I was really referring to my inability to carry any tune - in a bucket!

(and I am partially deaf - perhaps that's why the Scots couldn't understand me!)

Just listened to the clip Patrick added.....Wonderful.
Raised the goosy pimplies on my neck.

Now Just imagine standing in the Millenium stadium with 75000 welshmen singing their hearts out. AND Catherine Jenkins joining in.

Now that is a great experience I can tell ya.

Muck

Saved from having to learn the Welsh anthem. Pity, though.....

On the other hand? I totally missed this thread the first time round and have had a good chuckle.

Thank you all

As an update, I was able to get an iPhone app Welsh phrase book. You can listen to the speaker say: "Os gwelwch yn dda" over and over. Very handy. Diolch.

Da iawn ti! (Roughly, 'good job,' though the literal meaning is 'very good, you'.)

proper job!