Knee Defenders
 

Just heard on the radio that a D.C. man has invented and patented a device passengers can use to prevent the person in front of them in coach from reclining the seat. The airlines claim that such a device does not violate any FAA regulations, but Northwest Airlines has already said it will ban them.

What do you think? Would you use such a device?

Bad idea. Would not use them. Sure to cause trouble if allowed on planes.

The same guy who would use one will most likely expect to be able to recline his own seat.

HI StCirq,
If God had meant for us to fly sitting straight up He wouldn't have invented reclining seats.

I'm with Ira on this one.

I think it's a dumb idea. I'd like to see this inventor fly a red eye sitting straight up.

Well, I wouldn't use one, either. There was a huge, rather vitriolic, debate about this on Fodors a year or so ago, though, so I thought it might spark some interest.

I'll bet 10 to 1 that the average person who would use such a device, would also then recline his or her own seat as far back as it would go. What an insult to use such a thing! Why not just say to the person in front of you, "Excuse me, but my comfort is much more important than yours, so please sit upright and do not lean back. Even though the airlines designed you a seat that could recline for your comfort, my comfort is more important than yours." Yea. Right.

The article was written by a writer from Associated Press and it was printed in my local paper yesterday. The $10 contraption that is for sale on the Internet is harnessed to the tray in front of your seat. Once it is harnessed in, it is impossible for the person in front of you to recline his/her seat. Northwest and other airlines are concerned that once the contraption is harnessed in unbeknownst to the person that wants to recline the seat, that s/he will attempt to force the seat into a reclining position, and break the tray. A hanging tray could become problematic if the plane needs to be evacuated quickly.

The gentleman (over 6 feet tall) that invented, patented and manufactured this contraption said that he will cease selling it once the airlines provide sufficient legroom for the passengers. The article also mentioned that over 10,000 of these contraptions have already been sold.

If the passenger behind me uses one I will request assistance from the flight attendant to remove the offending device. I doubt if anyone is going to have a big argument with the crew on board an airplane these days.

Marilyn,

Yep...exactly what I would do too.

I love this writer/inventor thinking he can hold the airlines hostage...why doesn't he buy first class tickets with the money he's already made selling this invention and he'll have all the leg room he wants.

Although my husband isn't very tall, he's relatively long from his hip to his knee, which can cause him difficulty on planes.

On one long flight, the very, very large gentleman in front of him, kept pushing the seat back really hard and banging into my husband's knees.

Politely asking the guy to give my husband a heads up so he could shift his legs to the side so enraged the guy that the stweardess had to threaten to have the air marshalls arrest him upon landing.

I can't imagine the trouble this device could spark.

>The...contraption..is harnessed to the tray in front of your seat. Once it is harnessed in, it is impossible for the person in front of you to recline his/her seat. <

I'm having trouble visualizing this. IIRC the tray in front of your seat is attached to the back of the seat in front of you and moves with the seat back.

I would like to see a demonstration before I spent my $10.

To IRA

Next time you fly take a good look at the tray configuration. You will find that it is not attached to the seat back but to the seat frame. If it were attached to the seat back everything would spill off the tray when the seat is reclined but since it is attached to the seat frame when the seat is reclined it moves toward and against the tray but the tray does not move closer towards you. This is the whole idea of the device in question. It stops the seat back from moving towards the tray and ultimately you. No airline is going to support the use of such a device. Anyone buying one is only wasteing their money. It's really a non-issue.

Larry J

And why bring up such a harmful piece of crap.

Larry - are you the inventor? You seem to know a lot more about this contraption than the local media do! I was having a hard time visualizing this contraption, too, but you seem to have a complete understanding of how the device can impede the reclining of the seat.
Cigale - you got a problem with a healthy debate about something that affects all travelers who fly coach?

To St Cirq

No, I'm not smart enough to be an inventor just a veteran of over 100 flights per year for several years. I would have to be brain dead to not know by now how tray tables and seats function. For years some smart alecs have used the same idea to stop seats from reclining such as wedging a bottle of water between the tray and the seat etc.

Larry J

I think that sounds great. Sure to provide lots and lots of inflight entertainment. If you use one then are you required to pay for the ticket of the person who you are using it on?

I want a device that locks one of the WC's. That way I can have a clean one all to myself for the entire journey!

There's more legroom in there, too. Do you think they'd serve you your meal in there? It would save so much time...

Marilyn - I am crying! That was hysterical. You have a great sense of humor!!!!!!!

Now that I think about it, if you put the locking device on early enough, I think it might me quite nice to pass the entire journey in there. The food tray could fit nicely over the sink area and you would be free to get up and go without having to wait for the hostess to liberate you from your seat. Ever notice how they do that? Although, come to think of it, where would you go? You would already be in the prime destination.

Thanks, Calamari. I must admit I chuckled myself after I posted it. But really, it would be like having a private compartment on a train, don't you think? No view, of course.

Your very own coucette with private potty. Have we just invented heaven?

No, StC you have made noted my errors, so often, I thought this would be fun

calamari and maryilyn, always fun and informative.

Not only does the defender user probably recline his/her own seat... he'd probably complain even MORE if airfares were to go up, which is what would happen if there were more legroom/less seats on planes.

Everyone's looking out for themselves these days. What's next? A seat-width extender for overweight people to encroach on their neighbors? Or how about a window-shade lock? That way if you're in the aisle seat, you can keep the window passenger from bothering you with that annoying sunlight! Calamari, i like your idea!

How about cheaper tickets for standing room only? Think how many more passengers they could cram into the plane.

No wonder planes are so crowded these days, what with people taking their children out of school half the year to travel.

I saw the inventor's website. He sounded so self-righteous and melodramatic, took himself so seriously, I burst out laughing.

This would probably be my reaction if I ever discovered someone using such a device. I'd love to tell him that the device ought ideally to not so much keep the forward seat from reclining, as to cause it to move forward and fold up on the passenger, sorta like Mrs. Hofnagle's hospital bed. Unfortunately he might not remember the hospital drama series, "St Elsewhere."

Anyway, when I stopped laughing, I'd ask if he'd indicate if my normal degree of seat recline (which is maybe a third of full recline) hurts his knees. In short, negotiate. Because with a war already (literally) being fought because of what some people did one September day on an airplane, I think the time has come for a truce.

SantaChiara - thanks for the chuckle...all other, perhaps I have been lucky, but I have found a "solution" perhaps....before the plan takes off and the seat is flung into my knees I tell the passenger I will be using my lap top and that if they are going to put there seat back I would appreciate a warning so that I don't risk damage to the machine....seats have never gone back....if they do I will be ready... I plan to bang hard on the key board.

I'm hoping the inventor perfects a "nose defender", next, to protect us from all of those interesting smells circulating in the cabin. And, perhaps, an ear defender: A special earplug that only blocks out the inane comments of surrounding passengers, but allows you to converse with your travel companion and hear the pilot's announcements. :)

seafox, it's funny but probably true that people would be more concerned about damaging your laptop than your knees.

Coming soon: a portable electrified fence to keep passengers from hogging the armrests.

KT! LOL!

This is a bad idea and will only increase the "air rage" problem.

For Ira and those that want to see how this device works:
http://www.kneedefender.com

It was interesting to read the posts and to find that I'm the lone person who is considering buying one! I have long legs and I'm sick of cradling the passenger ahead of me too.

Politely asking them to not recline quite so far back is practically useless. To be quite honest, I don't see why some think that using it is being inconsiderate and the person who is darn near 'nursing' you is not. Actually, I haven't read anything (yet) negative about people who recline too far.

I want to believe all in all most folks would be sensitive enough to not do it and I understand how 'put upon' some would feel not being able to recline at all....I DEFINITELY see BOTH sides....one person's comfort isn't as important as the other. I'm 5'10" and I definitely can not afford to take first class and can't get bulkhead seating during every flight.

I don't think anyone would entertain the thought of purchasing something like this unless they have been in a number of situations where they are simply fed up.

It's a tough call....one that won't be resolved unless all airlines ban it or if they modify the seats where it does not recline back so far. Just my 2 cents, wanted to share it not start an argument. With any luck, this will open up dialogue about how we should start being considerate of our neighbors on terra firma or otherwise.

Renee,

Although I wouldn't use one, I do agree that people who recline all the way in coach are pretty inconsiderate. Personally, I never recline my seat because I know how uncomfortable I am when someone does it to me, and, to me, it isn't any more comfortable anyway.

I have no problem with people who feel the need to recline a bit. But when a person reclines so far back that I can count their dandruff flakes, it does get me irritated. I, too, wish that airlines would make seats that recline only far enough as to not infringe upon my legs.

I know many people will say, "hey, they make the seats to recline that far, so I'm going to do it."

It was interesting, on my flight back from Orlando last week on my business trip, there were a lot of people who were at the same convention as myself. Although on a regular business trip, these people might recline, I'd say nine out of ten people from my convention did NOT recline on this flight. I surmized it is because they might know or did know the person behind them, and they did not want to make them uncomfortable.

Perhaps it is easier for many to recline fully when they don't know the person behind them. Their thought being, "I don't care if they're uncomfortable because I'll never see them again."

I guess all I'm saying to people who fully recline, think a little bit about the person behind you and respect their space a little bit, too.
((H))

What's next, a device to keep those annoying people who make 50 trips to the lavatory in their seats?
Reclining seats are just a part of flying. Learn to cope!

Just to muddy up the waters further! How about the kids who kick the back of your seat?? We try to choose airlines/planes that seem to give more leg room - Lufthansa, Singapore - Continental was not bad.. We were on one flight when the person in front reclined full back to the point that we could not eat our dinner.. the cabin attendant very nicely asked the person if they would go back to upright until we had eaten.. They did and never did go back to a FULL recline.. (This was after Sept. 11) Along with my first comment about the kids kicking the back of the seat.. had a thought about the tall people who always have their knees in your back and deliberately flex them!! As I said, just muddying the waters!!

If I recline my seat (and I do; I'm 5'10" too) I fully expect the person in front of me to be able to do the same.

I agree with Dick that this is an open invitation for Air Rage on someone's part. I suspect the airlines will ban the contraption soon enough.

Koshka

As a not-tall person, I'm not as bothered by reclined seats as far as knees go. Can you tall people tell me if a partial-recline hits your knees? I've never given it much thought because I never knew this was a problem.

Maitaitom,

I agree with you 100%!


Marty,

It's not a matter of 'learning' to cope...it's a matter of being considerate! It's not being unreasonable to ask that someone not crush your legs.

Skaye,
I can't stand that either...kicking the back of someone's seat is atrocious...and it usually is a kid. As far as the tall person deliberately having their knees in your back....it may not be so deliberate. The length of a person's legs can't be helped....but I can see how some folks will forget that someone else is sitting in front of them. During my trip to Paris, I usually had to slide my left leg under the seat and the right leg out in the aisle....or sit with both knees facing outward to avoid a recliner or to prevent digging into someone's back....that's too long to be so uncomfortable.

Koshka,

The real problem wasn't that the person in front of you being unable to recline...it was about the person BEHIND you being squashed by a 'recliner'.

Anyways, I rarely recline...and when I do, I ask the person behind me if they are ok.....maybe I'm an idiot....but I like being considerate. lol