The problem is, I believe, that people expect to be treated differently (better?) because they are from some foreign country. Once they notice that nobody cares weather they are from the US a rich, a poor country or anywhere else and they are treated as "bad" as everybody else they realize that the are "nothing special" at all, just ordinary people on holiday, which sometimes comes with a shock. ;-)

st
we were talking about experiences of visiting italy. i did say i had to do more research, read up, etc. i did not say i wasn’t going to visit italy based on jh's experiences.

but since you brought up the subject, a very good one at that. the answer is yes, i meet rude people all the time. and yes i do ignore them. in fact, i refrain to coin the term “tourist,” and use the word, “visitor” instead because growing up, the word tourist is synonymous with idiot, self-centered egotists, etc. however, i’ve also met some very wonderful people from all the world that have shown genuine curiosity and open-mindedness and i have no problem inviting them to parties, whether it be birthdays, graduations or just watch us locals play ukuleles and guitars on the beach, garage or whatever. 90% actually show up and all say they’ve enjoyed themselves.

i’m not missing the point, we were talking about italy and as logos said, the shock was my immediate reaction to reading the post…

If you have ever lived in a tourist town, you can understand a little what it's like to feel like you have to be a tour guide available at all moments. (I lived for awhile in Boston and worked right down near Faneul Hall.) Sometimes you don't mind - other times you just want to tell people to buy a map for cryin' out loud! I suspect that feeling could easily creep up on a resident in Rome.

That being said, we had a great time in Rome and never ever felt treated badly. I have to confess, though, that I am maybe overly sensitive about asking people for help or directions or assistance with this or that. We pretty much navigate our own way.

I think in a city as over-run with tourists as Rome is, you have to respect the fact that people might just want to get on with their own lives, be with their fellow Italians, and not feel outnumbered or overpowered by the presence of so many tourists. I think that is perfectly understandable.

Wow, you travel fast. You did everything worth doing in Venice in just one day? I've gone four times now and still haven't managed to fit it all in. Maybe that's because when we rented an apartment there for a week last year, we were so content just enjoying the city, we never managed to do much of anything in particular. How did you manage to see everything and still have time to stop and breathe it all in? When one is in such a hurry, it's easy to see how the charms of Venice escaped him.

But I do know what you mean. I once drove through Boston (or insert another city here) on the interstate. I sure didn't see anything there worth staying overnight for, and there was nothing off the beaten track there either.

Everyone has their own trip. Some of us have the good fortune to pretty much always have a good time and thoroughly enjoy ourselves. I expect that about 80-90% of people who go to Italy have a wonderful time. 10-20% may not. That's life. I've also known people who had a terrible time in a place once then gone back under different circumstances (e.g., different traveling partners) and been enthralled.

uhoh_busted makes a very good point. And I can't help but wonder since your planned visit to the CT was rained out and Venice became a "second choice" if that perhaps affected your overall impression.

And at the risk of starting a war here, I always wonder if you approach person after person with a "hello or good morning" in their language and a huge friendly smile on your face -- how in the world it could happen that ALL of them were rude to you for no reason. Something here doesn't compute.

What will we get????Mmmm...time is coming close. We arrive two weeks from today. I must admit there are some places that I have not liked as much as others. I was a little disappointed that the people in Switzerland were not more friendly but know that I was only in Switzerland for three days.. Would I go back???? Certainly would as it is a beautiful place. We have traveled ...a bit and never found "all" of the people to be unfriendly. I think maybe we remember the friendly and helpful ones more. Anyway I will tell you what I think in approximately 6 weeks. (Leaving in two and gone for three..one week to recover) I have a feeling that we will love it...we are so easy.....

Is there something these posters are not telling us? Is it karma from a previous life? I am mystified by posts like this OP.

There are so many things I don't understand:

I can imagine that someone might not like Venice. Honest I can. But I can't understand anyone saying you can "see" a major city in one day and evening. I wouldn't think you could even make a remark like that unless you knew the place fairly well.

Next, what are these people doing to bring such bad juju on themselves? I've traveled for about 40 years, through at least 30 countries, on 5 continents, and I swear I can count on one hand the number of times somebody was horribly rude or deliberately unhelpful or misleading. In general, I have found people all over the world to be friendly and kind. Especially in Italy, where I have traveled at least 8 times.

I think the OP belongs on that thread with the worst or most misleading travel advice ever given...

Hi Marilyn, I certainly have not even begin to travel as much as you have but I sure echo your thoughts.

Everywhere one goes (in your hometown or across the world) one does run into a grump, some rude person etc. Maybe, could it be, that grump or rude person has a spouse, parent or child dying? Could it be that the person is ill but still working as they need to pay their bills? Hmmm, just a thought. And then again maybe that person is just naturally unpleasant. And there are always "punks" that have no thought for anyone but themselves.

But a whole country filled with people like this? I don't think so. If I came home with that thinking and experience I would hope that I would do some deep soul searching to find out how and why I caused that kind of attitude from pretty much everyone I had contact with throughout my vacation.

LoveItaly & Marilyn,

karma, karma, karma....also, if you expect everyone to stop and be at your service you'll be dissapointed and I highly suspect that if those people went somewhere and met one rude person but everyone else was fine, they would just remember the rude person.

Let's just hope that we don't run into these rude magnets during our travels. :)

My mother used to say "rude gets rude". If a traveler approaches a group of policemen standing on a corner, interupts them in the middle of their conversation and starts rattling off in loud English "where in the world is that bridge? They said it was right here" then it is easy to see why the policemen might be considered rude when they answered. If that same group were approached with a scusi and a buon giorno and then a big smile asking first if they speak English and then asking about the problem at hand, then it is really very very difficult to imagine their being rude.

How many of you have witnessed some rude person nearly attack a clerk in a store with a demanding question and then go off muttering how rude the clerk was? I've seen it dozens of times. It's so funny how the rudeness mainly seems to happen to rude people.

Just want to add to the chorus of those who had a totally different experience of Italy in May 04. Rude? No...people were very nice. From the guy at the bank after my halting Italian for "can you please change this bill into small money" with perfect English "yes I'd be happy to" to all the people on the bus who yelled at the driver to stop when my daughter got off and I didn't and he took off (even though we were stupid and tried to get off through the back door where you are supposed to get on)

And I never had trouble finding toilet paper in any bathroom.

And we stayed 3 days in Venice and found that not to be enough to see it all. And we did find some neighborhoods where there were no tourists....

Expecting an entire country to be happy all the time is kind of silly. Are you happy all the time? Apprarently not, you weren't too happy in Italy :-)

Where did you go that they didn't speak English? Everyone spoke it, but they sure appreciated it when we said please and thank you in Italian. It's a like an alternate universe Italy you went to.

Joelle

I'm pretty sure that Terry is a troll.
If he is not, then raise your glasses to the fact that he is never going back.

I must have gone to the "other Italy" The Italy I visited last year was where the waiter in Rome did everything but invite us home; where the policemen on two occasions patiently tried to figure what the hell does he want!!(Rome) Where I not once obeyed or understood the system of sitting vs counter and was politely served. Where a $2 toy was wrapped with love and kindness( Florence). Where I wanted a piece of wrapping paper from the bakery with the logo because they were so kind(Perugia).
Not once were we treated without kindness and respect!!

Where do you start?
Who is Birnini when he is at home?

" In our opinion, Venice is a city which can be easly seen and enjoyed in a full day and evening. The only Sight is the city itself, canals are great, easy to walk everywhere."

I have visited Venice four times, staying for two weeks each time.
I have found new places, galleries and even islands each time.
I have never found a public toilet without paper. In fact, the one near St. Marks in Venice is one of the cleanest I've ever met.

Why on earth should they have signs in English? The majority of visitors to Italy are German.
Also, if they have the courtesy to speak to you in English, you should be grateful.

BTW, it's "night" not "nite".

Billy, I and no doubt many Italians will join you in raising our glasses.

Jennhawk somehow decided to search and dig up a post that is over 5 years old? Why? How? Just to start a debate? Why didn't he/she just start her own new thread if she really thought she had something to report?

Doesn't compute to me. Troll!

Oh, my God. When will I learn to look at the date of a post before commenting on it? Now I know what that big celebration was in Venice during the summer of 2001. It was the celebration that this miserably unhappy tourist didn't come back.

Two words for Jennhawk... unrealistic expectations.

In all my travels to date I can hardly think of a singleincident of a local person being rude to me. But then I wasn't asking for their help. That's the key.

I think the problem begins with the expectation that strangers should help you as you... "tried" to speak Italian from your phrase book, clog up the line of people waiting to use a pay phone, interupt their day to give you directions (get a map why don't you?) and how the heck did you drop all your paperwork in the middle of a busy street? I'd be less than patient with you too.

I think it is presumptious to think all Italians should be friendly and willing to be of service to tourists. Figure stuff out yourself! Don't bother the locals is my advice to alleviate these situations.

Wow. I've learned a few things by joining this forum. I was shocked at the hostility aimed towards my comments.

I knew this was an old thread, but I thought that if I took the time to read it now others might as well. Sorry this was such an offense.

To be honest, I asked myself the whole trip if I was doing things to generate negative responses. I had never felt like this when traveling before. I tried to be polite, approach people with a smile, use Italian phrases, and ask politely for directions only when I had exhausted other means. (Our hotel was not on our map so we stopped at an info desk in the train station.)

My goal was to let others know that I had a shocking and negative experience-not because I want to bash Italy, but because I like to hear different perspectives before I visit a new place. I thought that was the point of a forum like this.

I'm wondering about the intent of those who insulted me. Is your goal to intimidate those with neg experiences so they won't post about places you like?

And if you must know, my husband dropped all the papers because he was waving at an old man about to get hit by a trolly. The folder was in his hand because Alitalia lost the bag it was supposed to go back into. But thanks for assuming we were just being idiots.

To answer a question posed to me, I have enjoyed traveling throughout the US, Canada, and Mexico, parts of South America, Eastern Europe, and Germany. My favorite trip was to Istanbul and Belgrade.

Hey Jenn,

Sorry you had such an offputting experience in Italy, but it was completely different from my last visit there, where we only found one person who was less than pleasant.

Well, two, but I don't count the pickpocket. :)

((I))

Hi Jenn-

I don't know why people can't disagree without getting nasty and demeaning the comments of others. That being said, there are generally better ways of expressing negative opinions without using blanket generalizations. I, too, had a couple of negative experiences in Rome and I just took it that I met up with people who were having a bad day or were just plain unpleasant.

If people who post can't be honest about their trip reports then what good are they?

JennHawk,

I don't know why people are getting on you about a dropped folder. It sounds like something that would happen to me.

I haven't been to Italy (one day I will go). If you see a klutz it's probably me.

But in response to the OP, why would you expect everyone to happy all the time. Next time yell (in English of course) "Dance, prank monkey"

Anyway, just because someone doesn't plaster aphony smile on their face doesn't mean their not happy.

Jennhawk -

I'm sorry you had some bumps in the road on your Italy trip. I loved my recent trip there and saw little of what you report, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen to you.

I appreciate an honest trip report, positive or negative. I'm always suspcious of reports that are unwilling to admit even one bad moment in a trip. Anyone who travels has had them, and they are a part of the experience. People who say unpleasant travel experiences haven't happened to them are being dishonest. The trick is to fixate on the great stuff.

Your impressions of Italy are not mine, but that does make them less valid. Thanks for posting.

...does NOT make them less valid.

Wow, I need more coffee.

My personal theory is that people simply more naturally fit in to & enjoy different countries. Personally I found Italy a bit more challenging to travel than other places I've visited. But I don't blame the Italians for that, it's just the way I felt. I find I flourish and fit in beautifully myself in Switzerland and Paris. But did not care for Amsterdam at all. My point being that it's about me and how I react to the surroundings. I don't expect things to be change to meet my preconceived notions. I found people in Amsterdam much more reserved and almost stand-offish. But I know there are those who adore that city.

I did not mean to come off as overly harsh above, but truly I do not expect help from strangers in a foreign country. And if I'd dropped my papers all over the sidewalk, I'd pick them up & probably wouldn't have made a complaint against Italians here on Fodors as a result of an accident.

I sat in the breakfast room of the Hotel Hermitage in Florence last year, and listened to the table of Americans next to me bond over the shortcomings of the hotel. These people didn't know each other ahead of time, so they found common ground in their negative attitudes. To make it even worse, they conducted the whole conversation full voice, obviously secure in the knowledge that "these people" couldn't understand. I was horrified-- embarassed to hold the same passport, sympathetic to the staff who were being openly insulted, and sad for the Americans who were so close-minded that these minor complaints (some true, by the way) would taint their whole trip.

What's more, I was able to gather from my eavesdropping that at least one couple was from my area in the US. So you might say that these were "my people", with similar life experiences, but, thank God, not the same attitude. Ironically, Florence was not the high point of my trip either, but there's a long leap from "this isn't quite what I expected" to "why would anyone want to go there".

I really appreciate that people have posted responses that are a bit "softer." I was quite intimidated after the response to my first post.

I think suze said very well what I actually meant. I did not fit into Italy as well as I have other places.

This is not to say that the people there are bad, or that I am a bad traveler, but just that I personally felt like I couldn't connect with the people I encountered as I had in other places.

I took some valuable lessons from that trip, though. If I see a person who looks lost, I am the first to offer help. And I used to assume people were just being idiots-now I assume that possibly their bag with all their maps, etc. was lost and they need directions quickly to catch a train.

For whatever it's worth, my worst vacation has made me into a nicer person.

Jennhawk, I still think you're over reacting to the posts made earlier. Other than two very brief and rather pointed ones made directly to you right after your first post, you MUST realize that most of those comments were directed to the original poster and not you -- at least I know mine were. Most of us I think didn't even realize that your comment was being made 5 years later and we were still reacting to some of the "over the top" statements made by Terry -- such as the idea that there is nothing to see in Venice and everyone is out to get your money. If you follow along, you'll even see that the "rudeness" comments related to her story of how policemen don't like to be interrupted.

Meanwhile, I think you were treading on thin ice by bringing up an old post that obviously got a lot of people riled up and then you agreeing with that point of view. Too late now, but you certainly would have been better off starting your own thread, not adding your comments to someone so narrowsighted as this Terry person obviously was.

But the bottom line, and the most important point in this entire thread came from you:

" For whatever it's worth, my worst vacation has made me into a nicer person."

Ah, if only that were true for all of us!

Whoa.

Just posted on above "Venice is A Dream" and traveled downward to check out "Just Returned: Some advice". Actually, received the thread by trying to update some Florence ideas, and was surprised that it was regarding Venice.

Planning a return trip to Florence and Cinque Terre now, but cannot sit back and let remarks such as these settle with anyone, and so I join the I Love Venice posters.

My original post of "Venice is A Dream" is my testament to this special place. When I have a little more time, I will read all 67 of these posts and I'm hoping/assuming more will be in the Love corner !

Jennhawk, I'm glad you checked back. I agree with the comments above that your biggest mistake (if I may call it that) was adding on to such a negative original post rather than telling your own story from scratch.

I'm glad also you appreciated my point of view about different people and different countries or cities. In the past I've compared the phenomena to what it's like to fall in love. You can't explain it, it doesn't always make sense but it is a strong... sometimes overwhelming emotion or reaction.

Jennhawk,

Chin up, maybe it was just a random convergence of negative experiences - statistically possible :-), in which case you may end up with the opposite convergence on your next trip. I hope you do!

-e

I do understand about not feeling as though you fit into a place. I have had that feeling. Fortunatly, for me, Italy and Mexico are two places that I fit into perfectly. Switzerland, although so beautiful, left me cold regarding the people. But that was just my experiences. And although I think Canada is also very beautiful and have had friends from Canada which I enjoy so much I must say in Vancouver, as much as I love the city, has not been a place where I felt like I fit in. So many rude encounters. But I would go back again if I had unlimited travel money.

Our jewel of the US, Hawaii, it is paradise to me. But I have known people (few, very few) that have said that they were treated terrible.

Have not had the pleasure of travelling in the Netherlands but I sure have always had the most kindest service from the KLM employees and the Dutch in the Amsterdam airport. I always look forward to being in their airport.

Guess it is all the the "chemistry".

You people need to chill! Everyone has a right to their opinion. Disagreement and discussion is one thing-but dumping like most of you are doing really turns me off to this message board. The Gore comment from a poster is the low point!!! Gee, what a great job Bush is doing making our world safer, saving lives except for American's and making us(Americans)stand proud as we travel to foreign countries!! The intelligence displayed in this thread is remarkable!!

I would not ordinarily reply to people's posts, but felt that one is necessary. No matter where you go be it away to another country, to another city, or even in the area that you live you will encounter rude people. I can't tell you the numerous rude people I encounter here in NYC and I live here. I also have encounter alot of wonderful people here, you can not expect to go somewhere and have everyone be polite. People have their own personalities and there own issues, whether you encounter rude people or nice people you should take it in stride and not anyone ruin a trip for you. You can make or break your trip and it's a shame that you let rude people ruin your trip.

Indeed, people have their own personalities, their own issues....and their own expectations of others. This is a very wise concept to keep in mind, but the number of responses to this now five year old thread show that it is very difficult to put it into practice. Also something to keep in mind, methinks. :)

We are leaving for Italy in one week...first time ever and I can't wait. I hope we are not disappointed but if we are I guess it is still better than most days at work. I appreciate all of the comments but am sometimes intimidated by wrath of others. Sometimes people don't appreciate another point of view. So we should be tolerant. I for one anticipate that we will have a lovely time in Italy and know from experience that even though some people are rude....not all of the people are rude..Treasure the good ones.

Well, just to throw in my 2cents worth. My family of 5 made our first visit to Italy this summer (Rome and south), and were just overwhelmed with the entire experience. The Italians were extremely friendly and helpful, most seemed to know some English, and they clearly did not dislike tourists in general or (these) Americans in particular. We had absolutely the best time I would have ever imagined. My wife and I are planning on returning next summer (without kids!) to visit Florence and Tuscany, and are anxiously awaiting and planning already. I can't imagine that anybody would love Italy, if they'd experienced what we did. It was perfect.

correction to above:

"can't imagine anybody would NOT love Italy....."

Sorry, I guess I just got too excited.

I will be going to Rome and Sorrent on Sept 3-
We will be flying into Naples then taking the train to Rome. Then we are going to Sorrento - Taking the train back -
What is the best way to get to Sorrento from the Napoli train staion

cynderelli- you probably want to "post a new message" instead of add to this one. your question is way down number 78 in a 5 year old thread, with a vague title. Start a new one with the title Train Naples to Sorrento question, is my suggestion.