Kappa1, I notice specifically that you are in Geneva and I am currently planning a trip to geneva on a fairly notice. I fully understand that you are probably not willing to volunteer your time and expertise to help me now due to our difference of opinions and your low regard for my manners, however, if you are gracious enough to rise above our differences and to help, I promise to thank you and to write a trip report about Geneva. Thank you!

<i>RainyDay09 on Jun 8, 11 at 12:57pm
The dilemma with asking precise questions is that people in early stages of planning a trip and without previous extensive experience of traveling might not know the right questions to ask and when they ask basic questions just to get started or to decide where to travel and whether to even take the trip, they get mocked. It is a fine balance because to ask precise questions, you have to have the basic understanding of the itinerary and where you are planning to stay and what you planning to see. </i>

If you don't know where you are going and why you are going there you deserve to be mocked. Hard core members of the Fodor's mafia will send your family a fish wrapped in a newspaper. More sympathetic Fodorites will send flowers. Most will sit and watch the beasts have lunch.

"And how can anyone reach adulthood and have no idea what is in the major capital cities such as Rome, London, or Paris. Didn't they ever study history in school? Haven't they ever looked at a guide book (free from libraries)?"

No, in the USA, they probably didn't study European history in school, for example. Didn't have have to in HS. And we had our choice of what history to take for a year in college. They've just been told, "You really ought to go to _________." (Everybody seems to be going nowadays.) and it doesn't occur to them to look in the library for guidebooks unless someone suggests it.

I find that one problem with many people who are new to travel in Europe is that even looking at maps of areas online, they can't get a feel for the scale of a place. For example, Italy looks so small on a map of Europe compared to Germany that they think it is the size of say, Vermont. (Sometime I think they believe it is a theme park!) So they plan to see it all in 7 days. Actually, it is the size of California, and often when they are advised to cut down their itinerary they are thankful that someone gave them advice about it. I like to tell them, "You can always go to the other places when you go back to Italy. And believe me, you WILL go back!" They seem to accept that answer.

I have to admit that every once in a while I make a cranky response to someone, and then afterward wonder what got into me.

What high school did you go to where you didn't have to study European history? I can't imagine, you must have had to study some history in high school, didn't you. It was required in my high school (both American and World history). However, these are things studied in geography, not just history (capitals). We studied that stuff in grade school, around 5th-6th grade. We had to learn about diffferent countries, used maps, learned capitals, products exported, etc. And no one got out of that.

So it isn't the result of US education but people who don't learn anything. I can't believe my schools were that unusual when I was growing up in Ohio compared to anywhere else, a lot of people just are dumb, actually. Because if they weren't they would know the capitals of these countries even if they didn't have some history course in school, that isn't the only way people learn things. You'd learn it from hearing the news and world events and reading the paper (if you care and have even average IQ levels).

I just checked the current required subjects of my old high school and they still require two history classes of every single student (world and American) as well as a civics/govt class.

<<It is natural to want to ask some general basic questions first to get an idea of what the destination have to offer.>>

I don't necessarily agree with that. To me, it's not "natural" to go on a travel forum and ask "What's there to do in Germany?" or "Is Stonehenge worth it?" What's natural for me is to avoid looking stupid and to do some basic research on my own to begin with. Even if you don't use libraries or bookstores, surely you have a computer, or how would you find Fodors? The internet is full of information about what there is to do in destinations the world over.

Sure, sometimes people are going on business trips and aren't in vacation mode and may not have the time to figure out what to do in a few days tacked onto the end of a trip. Others may spot a last-minute deal to somewhere and just impulsively buy tickets, without doing much research. But those types of folks are in the minority.

As for history, I had years and years of compulsory European and other world history in grade school and high school - a whole year on the Romans, a year on the Greeks, modern European history...plus art history and geography and cartography and literature classes that were tied in with various periods in Western civilization. Is it really possible that kids don't still get that in school?

It is especially annoying when someone asks "What's there to do in Germany?" and after people answer the question or direct them to guidebooks, the OP responds, "Oh, I already knew about that" or "I already looked in a guidebook but was hoping for for better answers" or the like. Then those who answered feel like they wasted a lot of time and become less likely to be helpful again.

Friends from suburban NYC often ask me to help them show the city to their visitors from another part the U.S. I have been surprised by the number of these visitors who ask, "What is there to do here?" Really, truly, more than one has asked this question. I start mentioning possibilities: The Statue of Liberty. "Oh, that's here?" The Empire State Building. "That's right! That's in New York." Mind-boggling.

I love this forum. Every time we've been planning a trip, especially to Europe, this place was a savior for us.... Then when back at home I go back to my questions and actually update them with MY answers, or help others heading to our destinations.... Of course, people can have different views and perspective on the same subject, so what. There will always be 10 who will recommend something, and one will think it to be a waste of time. Human nature.

Reading the OP's claim "While some tips are extraordinarily helpful, I have found myself avoiding this particular forum..." I think is kind of silly....

It's true that there's good, bad, and even an little ugly on this forum. But us travel nuts should be grateful. Last night I posted a query on the U.S. forum, tagged in two states. Not only I have not received a reply yet -- there have not been ANY posts in either place in nearly 24 hours! My question is still at the top of the board. So, despite the lapses in etiquette and protocol that sometimes occur, at least over here we have a vibrant community!

@Denisia - Yes - you are right!! 67 replies is fantastic. Plus, I must admit that the posts are all very honest and friendly. I am glad I put this out there. I think it's important to express opinions or concerns; to be honest, I thought I would get a lot of nasty feedback. I am really happy to see so many people posting about this in a more open/amiable way. I do think this forum is very helpful and am always impressed at people's willingness to go out of their way to help. What I particularly enjoyed about this thread was the "should someone read a guidebook or have exposure to European history" before coming on this forum to ask questions debate. I suppose there are the "lazy" people that ask, "what is there in Germany?" And maybe the best advice is to simply ignore these people rather than get so angry with them. I personally get mostly irritated when people give the specifics of their trip and then ask a specific question about memorable restaurants or what-not and certain posters attack the timing of their trip or begin attacking parts of the trip that are unrelated to the OP's questions/concerns. I think that is just plain rude, but I know manners cannot be policed. It's just like someone said before, the OP has to learn to value/thank the helpful responders and ignore the angry/condescending/negative ones.

ellenem, funny that you mention people asking "what is there to do" in NYC. I have been there 10+ times and still have not been to any of the tourist hotspots - far too busy catching Broadway shows, great meals, and fabulous art galleries.

anothertravelinsong,
The people who don't recall the Statue of Liberty also don't recall that "Broadway" theater is in NYC.
People have their own interests . . . which is exactly why I hope first-time posters include a bit about their own interests when they ask for suggestions, because my ideal trip, my must-see, may not be theirs.

Just ignore them like you ignored middle school bullies. One has to have thick skin to be on any of these forums. And I understand how some of the behavior can get very annoying. Happy Travels!

I don't get mad at people who don't some research.
I am just amazed that they must have spent a considerable time of their life working hard to get the $$ or €€ for an often expensive trip to another continent, but then feel no need or possibilty to "waste" one additional hour to get at least a rough idea of where they plan to go.

Honestly, I don't call it "research" to use a not so uncommon device (the "computer") and tool (the "browser"), go to a hardly known scientic research resource ("google.com") and type a complicated search query ("France tourist information").

It would not suspect or expect anyone to spend the next 2 weeks or even 2 days in front of the computer screen, but just use a very general info website to get a very rough idea what regions, sights, potential destinations there are once you got to, for example, France.

ellenem is spot on in asking for at least a bit more info on any poster's interests.
Maybe there are people who "love it all".
But it's much easier to offer help when those who ask also offer a bit more insight of what they would like to do or see.

.....am just amazed that they must have spent a considerable time of their life working hard to get the $$ or €€ for an often expensive trip to another continent, but then feel no need or possibilty to "waste" one additional hour to get at least a rough idea of where they plan to go.....

Perhaps people are different nowadays. I had an American friend who finally got to England in her 70s. She had been dreaming, planning and researching for decades.

A friend of mine recently worried about going to France by Eurostar.
"I would feel really claustrophobic travelling for hours under the ocean".
I gently pointed out that it takes about 20minutes to go though the tunnel, that you can actually see France from Kent and that people sometimes swim the Channel.