just back from london
 

I thought i would share with the world my wisdom gained from my most recent trip.

i flew into heathrow (#4, where all US flights go). the Heathrow Connect train service to Paddington at 6.90 is a great deal.

I stayed around paddington that night, so I didn't have to worry about lugging my bags around. another good thing about being around paddington is that there are a number of cheap restaurants just to the right of the station as you go out. i ate dinner at one strangely named "bizarro", but there were a number. some cheap breakfast places too.

I have a tendency to pack too much. in the US this is not a big deal--you just put all the stuff in the rental car and off you go. but i was reminded that in england/europe you need to carry your stuff all around, at least to go to your hotel. message to brain: pack lighter next time.

a related point in london--the london tube is remarkably inconvenient for people with heavy bags. there are eacalators at only a few tube stops--at most you have to trudge up and down steps forever.

another thought--london is huge and the public transit system is slow, sometimes unpleasant and unreliable. it would make sense and save a lot of time to stay around what you want to do. each time i took the tube some line was severely delayed. adn on the weekend the circle and district lines were closed (for repairs)! this makes navigating london more of a challenge, particularly if you are staying at the kensington high steet tube stop.

the tube in london is very unpleasant from about 5-7 PM during rush hour. people crushing their way into the car and crushing their way out. quality of life suggestion--don't ever do this. have a drink. read a book.

there are buses--which i did a lot. they are convenient but slower than the tube.

a good transport suggestion--the oyster card. i bought a 7-day transit pass for zones 1 & 2 (24 pounds) , and boy did that help. good for both trains and buses--just swipe the transit pass, and off you go. you don't ever have to buy another ticket.

there are some good transit maps at most tube stations that give info about common bus routes as well as the tubbe.

a few sightseeing ideas. I went to temple church in the inns of court area for a free organ concert. an interesting old church that is not open much. adn i went to westminster abbey for the organ concert at 5:45 on sunday aft.

I rented the tape at the national gallery--it's quite handy--each painting in the national gallery is numbered--you just punch in the number of the painting you are interested in and the curator talks about it.

South bank on saturday afternoon/early evening is really active near the national theatre. performers, book-sellers.

Thanks for the candid report of your experiences on the tube.

While many people coo over it -- especially if they come American cities with no underground or public transport system to speak of -- it can be a very annoying system to use: crowded, slow, and quite difficult if you are carrying bags.

It's still a good option for transport between many points in London, which is vast. But it needs overhaul and improvement.

Small correction--flights from the US fly into Terminals 3, 4 and 5. If you go to a concert at the abbey, can you wander around before or after? Thanks.

cathinjoetown: No, if one attends services or concerts in the Abbey (and St Paul's as well) you are limited to the seating area. There is no wandering around the chapels, tombs, etc.

I found the London Tube just the opposite - it knocks spots off the Metro in Paris for starters.
Every city has a rush hour and if you are a visitor - go to the pub!

I am a tube 'coo-er' (LOL - I like that term). I'm from Austin, TX - a city with no decent public transportation to speak of. I'm unabashedly and unrepentantly in love with the tube. Months after my trip I still carry my Oyster card around and stare at it longingly every time I open my wallet...seriously....I really do.

It does get stiflingly crowded at times though - Covent Garden after the Opera - icky poo!

Anyway, I enjoyed your trip report. Thanks for sharing!

1-Not all USA flights go into terminal #4.
2-The use of upper case is a good thing when typing.
3-Eating cheap is not for everyone, some like to eat well.
4-Sorry you didn't like the tube.
5-Sorry you didn't like the public transportation.
6-Sounds like you had a horrid time, and didn't like anything.

to the last poster. sorry you don't like lower case. sorry if it sounded negative. it really wasn't what i intended to comunicate--i just intended to write some of the things i learned for my next trip. and i thought others might find these thoughts of some use. london obviously is a great city in many ways. and i did get more savy about transport--in terms of combining buses and the tube, for example, even in a week.

oh one more thing--the national theatre has 10 pound tickets to some great plays.

I find the Paris Metro much more useful to footsore tourists looking to move about the city quickly. There are Metro stops everywhere, just a few steps underground, and the design of the overall system, in concentric circles with spokes, makes for a lot of interline connections -- whereas in London, it can be impossible to get from one line to another after a few stops. For its longest distance between connecting trains there are people movers in Paris. Some of those connecting stations in London have you going through tunnels and up and down stairs forever.

When I'm in London, I use the Tube. But even my London friends will ask me to meet them at certain places rather than others so they can avoid the Circle Line or some of the other tube lines because of slow trains or difficult connections.

laustic,
I've been in Austin! They don't even have crosswalks there, let alone public transportation!

"Sounds like you had a horrid time, and didn't like anything."

I didn't get that impression from the post, but even were it true, I'd be grateful for a few more travel reports from people who don't simply gush that they had a fabulous two weeks no matter where they went.

Well, sure. Once you've spent thousands and thousands on a trip, it would be pretty hard to admit it wasn't all sunshine and roses. But travel is always a gamble, there's nothing wrong with being candid about one's negative discoveries on a trip -- which may be total. I've been to some places -- like Brugge -- I couldn't wait to get out of.

When people come to Italy and have a lousy time, I don't feel defensive about it and I don't think something is wrong with them.

travel writing by e.e. cummings.

the tube can be a pain but it by and large does it's job. it does show its age from time to time. most station in central london do have an alternative to the stairs.

youngtom:

>>>london is huge and the public transit system is slow, sometimes unpleasant and unreliable.<<<

The London Tube, The Paris Metro, even the Rome "Roamer", The Moscow Monstrosity, The Boston MTA, Washngton DC, SF, NYC, and Chicago transportation systems...all make Anglenos like myself, stand in awe..

"Why the hell didn't we put a system in 50-100years ago", we ask!
We know the answer: fraught with fraud, graft, and oil company lobbies. But even so,...why? Yes, in the past ten years, the city fathers awoke to the dilemma and a line was started fom wherever downtown in this sprawling City of Angels is located, out to the "far reaches" of Western Avenue, and on into North Hollywood....the entire line (which no one rides...no such thing as rush hour...even count the heads on the new elongated busses and you may come up with 10 at busy times) may equal one of London's shortest lines...or for Bostonians, an example...Park Street to Riverside Station.

So knock The Tube, if you will, but we'd gladly take it out here!(or ANY of the other systems mentioned).

Would I ride it? Probably not...but thousands for whom it would be convenient, and cheaper than petrol sure would....surface and freeway traffic would lighten somewhat.

stu T.

youngtom, I also appreciate your candor and agree with you.

We lived in England in the early 1980's and stayed in London for a couple of months. I used the tube a lot. When I returned to London 20 yrs later as a tourist, I found it to be so much more crowded. We also had trouble with stations and lines being closed down. I don't think the system has been able to keep up with the growth in population.

It's still better than most of the transportation systems in other large international cities, but it isn't perfect.

I look forward to hearing more about your trip.

I'm sorry if the summary of my trip was too critical for some on this list. What I really believe is that I chose a hotel that wasn't too convenient to what I wanted to do, so I ended up with some transportation challenges, as one would have in most big cities.

so i guess what i would encourage people to do when choosing a hotel ( and me when i go next) is to remember that london is a big city and, like many big cities, can be difficult to get around. it is much more convenient to be close to where you want to be most of the time.

Re: The Tube. Yes, it's got its annoying moments, but I prefer it over the NYC subway. At least the stations are cleaner and cooler, and I like the fact there are LED screens telling how long the next train will be arriving. Last month in NYC, it was just annoying NOT knowing how long I'd have to wait... it could be 1 minute, it could be 10 minutes.

As far as Tube delays go, at the entrance of each station, there's usually a "Travel Advisory" board informing pax which lines & stations are delayed or closed etc.

The Tube delays I expererience nowadays are nothing compared to the tube (IRA) bomb scares back in the 90s.

Having said that, I still prefer taking the bus in London IF I'm not in a hurry AND IF I'm not traveling a far distance.

I'm enjoying your report but I'm curious. What hotels did you book?

Just spent 2.5 days in London in June and never rode public transportation (tube or bus). We walked everywhere - you get to see more that way. The one good thing we did (as the original poster realized too late) was to book a hotel half a block from Trafalgar Square. Yes it cost more money,but the convenience was worth the cost.

I, too, am one of those "coo-ers" about the London tube. Americans are just toooo devoted to their cars, and it's a real pleasure for me (although I use mass transit in Portland, where I live) to rely on the tube the whole time I'm in London.

I will agree, though, that it is tremendously crowded in the evening rush hour. A couple of times, I simply walked a few blocks to take a tube from a less-crowded station. And yes, you do have to do a lot of walking in the tube. It's not designed for anyone with mobility issues.

FYI, on my last trip to London, I stayed near the Earls Court tube stop. It has a ramp and then a lift to the Picadilly Line, which can make it easier for anyone traveling to the airport with their heavy luggage.

I stayed just steps away from the St. James Park tube station last June and had the similar unpleasant experience of having the District and Circle lines closed all weekend, then had a misadventure following the TfL website directions for taking the bus to the Tower of London (told me to get off and change buses at a stop where they connection route was not stopping due to road work). It was crowded, and in my opinion, nowhere near as convenient as Paris, but I still would reccommend it to anyone traveling to London. Busses were no less crowded during my stay than the Tube.

While I find the Tube useful, I do agree, however, that one should try and stay in an area of interest, as opposed to say in Paris, where you can pretty much take the Metro anywhere fairly quickly so long as you are within the Periferique. The Tube does not cover as much of London as the Metro does of Paris (coverage is really spotty south of the Thames), and you can easily find yourself someplace where the nearest Tube station is not realisitcally walkable.

The Oyster card in London was great--Paris's inflexible weekly pass suffers by comparison. I've also ridden subways in New York, Washington, and Boston, and I'm probably going to be riding the El in Chicago next summer, so I like using subways where available.

The useful discussion this thread has opened up is about the oft-asked question:

"Where should I stay in London? I want a central hotel."

Nine times out of ten, a group of posters rushes in to say that it doesn't matter where one stays, because one can take the tube. (And there is no 'central London.') And then they tell people that is just fine to stay in Kensington.

Well, stuff and poppycock, balderdash, 1066 and all that rot! It can be a damned nuisance to rely on the Tube if you're a first time tourist there and want see the most famous historic sites, most of which are, unsurprisingly, closer to what his historically called "the city" than they are to South Kensington.

I think you almost can't avoid taking the Tube while in London, and I highly recommend people do it, and learn how to use that infernal Oyster card.

But I'd much sooner take the subway in Madrid, Athens, Paris, Barcelona, Berlin, Brussels and New York City. About the only underground trasnport system I like less is -- well, I won't say, because its fans will rush in to defend it.

And I've never taken the one in Roma because I never seem to want to go anywhere it goes. In Rome, one might as well walk.

On my trip to London 2 years ago (which I forgot to post, please forgive me), I stayed at the Thistle Marble Arch for 4 nights. Several modes of transportation were steps away. This hotel was about 2 blocks from the Marble Arch tube stop, around the corner from Hyde Park, and a half block from Oxford Street. The famous hop on, hop off busses were across the street from the tube stop, to.

After staying out in the country for a night with my best friend's boyfriend, he dropped me off at the Thistle Charring Cross hotel, which was right on top of the Charring Cross tube station. Amazingly, I couldn't hear a thing from the tube. This hotel was literally around the corner from Trafalgar Square, The National Portrait Museum, numerous nice pubs and restaurants and numerous bus lines were steps from the front door.

I live in Chicago, so I deal with public transportation almost everyday. Even with my large suitcase, rolling cosmetic case and backpack (yeah, I over packed), I managed to navigate the tubes quite nicely. It helped that I arrived on a bank holiday and the only other time I had to travel with all that mess was when I went to the train station to catch a train to Birmingham, to visit my cousins.

Coming from such a large city, I made sure to not be on the busses or tubes during rush hours. This was the best time to people watch and rest my feet.

After arriving at each hotel, I ventured out to survey the lay of the land. By doing that, I located coffee shops and delis where I could grab breakfast and sandwiches, snacks and water for my sightseeing; tube stops and bus lines; restaurants; and the local Selfridges.

Since I worked so hard to save for the trip, I deserved to sit down and enjoy nice dinners at the end of long days. So, every night was a treat for me! I even hunted down an Indian retaurants that was featured on one of London's dinning out TV programs. I had to take the tube and then walk a few blocks, but it was worth it.

Wherever I go, I always ask hotel personnel, whether it's a busboy, maid or concierge, where their favorite place to eat is. I've been lucky to dine at some amazing restaurants that way.

Your trip is what you make of it, youngtom2910. Delete the annoying things that happened on your adventure and focus on the great time you had and people you met. Unless my luggage gets lost, nothing really bothers me when I travel. So, when a snafu occurs, I make the best of it.

The best strategy I've found when sightseeing in a new city is to start at the farthest point out and work your way back towards your base of operation. This way, you don't waste a lot of needless time driving, changing busses, backtracking, etc.

Without reading all of these posts and taking notes from all of you Fodorites, my trip to London wouldn't have been half as much fun. I've already got a growing pile of notes for for my next trip, Italy! Thanks all and keep up the good work....now if I could only get over my fear of flying.

Youngtom, thanks for your report. Even though I live in London, some of your suggestions have made me think I should try them out, like the National Gallery. It's been a while since I've been.

Blacknight, I like your attitude!

London wasn't set up for the comfort and convenience of tourists. Throughout its history, it's been a place for people to make money and support those who help these people make their money. The economic conditions seen throughout the world in the past 15 years has meant that London has seen an influx of tourism that has altered the feel and the population density of this city. And let's not forget the new members of the European Union who flocked here as soon as they were given the green light.

I find it ironic that the very tourists who contribute to this situation then complain when they don't find things to their liking. I'm the last person to say "stay away" but logically speaking, that is exactly what you should be doing. Let's face it, most of us have enjoyed enhanced travelling opportunities in the past decade or so and London is very much a victim of that. We know that others places are as well.

Another thing I find ironic is that some posters have complained that the lines or stations have been closed, causing inconvenience, and others have said that the Tube needs upgrading. So which is it?

As for finding somewhere "central" to stay in London, no such place exists. You are always going to have to travel if you want to see all the sights.

Since the demise of the hop-on, hop-off Routemaster bus, this Londoner has really taken to a nice American shoe called the Fit Flop. It weighs nothing, fits in my Mulberry bag and if I need to start walking, due to traffic, delays, etc, then I just put them on and go. The great thing about being a human being is you can THINK your way around problems and adapt. And that's how London got to be the way it is today - which in turn makes people want to see it.

Peace

I, too, am in Austin, TX, and love the ease and availability of public transport in our travel destinations! I haven't been to enough different destinations frequently enough to compare specific systems, but the mere fact that there is public transport is thrilling to someone who doesn't have it at home.

As to trip reports that are always glowing...certainly there are places that I like better than others, but any trip anywhere is more exciting than a day home doing dishes and laundry!

Defending London's transport system is almost as unEnglish as singing our national anthem. Praising it is simply treasonable.

BUT youngtom's criticism apply to LOTS of transport systems. Getting round our (150 year old) Tube with luggage is far from perfect - but it's far, far easier than getting round New York's, which had the opportunity of avoiding London's mistakes when it finally got round to developing a proper system of mass transit, but decided to have even steeper stairs, fewer escalators, longer walks and far less luggage-friendly entry and exit barriers. And the New York subway has done a hell of a lot less in the past 20 years to civilise itself. Try getting the tube from Grand Central to Kings Cross and see which bit's nastier.

The Lyons metro - built by that paragon of perfect State planning, the French government, in the 1970s for heaven's sake - has practically no stations where it's possible to avoid steps. It even features at least one station with an escalator serving a bit of the downward journey - but no escalator at all for passengers going up.

Much as we like to delude ourselves that we lead the world in rotten public transport, the uncomfortable truth is that it's generally comfortable only in places so boring there aren't any other passengers getting in your way. Or where - as with the Shanghai MagLev nonsense - there's hardly any, and what little there is, is somewhere no-one wants to use it anyway.

Thanks youngtom for your comments about luggage and transportation. A good friend has one of those carry-on rolling backpacks and even though she raves about how wonderful it is, I was on the hedge about buying yet another piece of luggage. After reading your observations about London's transit (which we will be depending on this September) I decided that a rolling backpack would be a very good thing indeed. Thanks!

As someone who has a good subway system in NYC, I can say I found the London Tube to be fine. I experienced few real delays.

I did have a problem lugging my bag around the tube the day we arrived, so we just took a taxi to the airport when we left. But I feel that way on public transport in NYC too. Bags get in the way and are too much of a hassle on public transport.

Mermaid, I got my rolling backpack from Eddie Bauer 5 years ago and I have dragged it EVERYWHERE. It is only just starting to show some wear. Not only do I find it useful on transport systems, it's also great for when you come across cobblestones and you don't want to wake the neighbours dragging it along the street!

hnberlin, thanks. The friend with the rolling backpack is heading off to Munich this evening and she pretty well has hers packed to the gunnels--and she did mention the cobblestone aspect! I like the idea of it being useful for train travel, which is how we'll be getting from Heathrow to London.

Thanks for posting your interesting report. Beware of pissing contests...most of us have probably stared at least one and been involved in more than that.

Eevrybody travels differently; everybody probably THINKS their way is the "best."

Anyobody who says they can cover more ground by walking than by riding on a wheeled vehicle..well, you know...

Packs are fine - but PLEASE be aware of your surroundings. Wish I had a £ for every time some clueless backpacker bashed me on the tube. You are in very close quarters - don't wear the pack on the train or you'll knock someone down when your turn around.

Both the London and New York City subway systems, both of which I am quite familiar with, have their good points and their bad points but both serve their purpose very very well. I also like the Paris Metro and the Berlin U Bahn.

London Underground goes right into Heathrow Airport...NYC subway does not go into JFK or LGA but for JFK you have an easy switch to the Air Train.

NYC fare structure is much simpler...one base fare no matter how far you travel no touching in and out...also the basic fare is far cheaper on the NYC subway $2 (although if you buy a metrocard, it's really more like $1.70) vs. an astounding £4 on the tube (although a 1 day off peak pass is £5.30 and the fare with a PAYG oyster card is £1.50 with a cap at £4.80 (double the sterling price to get USA equivalents)....

Less grafitti on the NYC subway...the MTA has done a good job ridding the system of most of the grafitti (although window scratching has to be dealt with next)...every NYC subway train is air conditioning and for the most part the air conditionnig works very well...London underground can be very uncomfortable on a humid summer day even though the temperature might not be all that high (it's not the heat it's the humidity) although because the air conditioning in NY, the heat has to go somewhere and where it ends up is generally in the stations making them quite uncomfortable.

Big advantage in London are the signs throughout central London how long to the next train...you have to listen, and to me it's unbelievable, how MTA employees defend the lack of these signs like passengers should not know how long till the next train (they have put these signs on one line and claim they are in the process of putting them throughout the system but it will take 50 years..how London, Paris and Berlin have managed to have these signs for a while now in systems that are certainly not much younger than NY is beyond their comprehension).....

NYC subway operates 24/7..London closes down from midnight to 0530 weekdays and Saturdays and midnight to 0700 on Sundays. But London provides much better service up till midnight. In NYC, if I go to the theatre, after the show at a relatively early 2230 I might have to wait 15 minutes for a train on many lines...in London and Paris the trains are still running on about a 5 to 8 minute headway.

Personally, I find London public transportation to be pretty good. And yes, there is not one single location you can stay that will be central and allow you to walk to everything..and yes all public transportation systems can be very uncomfortable during rush hours but what's the alternative? Taxis subject to the same traffic delays buses are during those hours and humongeously expensive.

I give my vote, though, to NYC. Imagine, you can ride from the top of the Bronx, to Coney Island for $1.70....try to beat that! (and BTW, NYC now allows one transfer from a bus to a subway free of charge; something you can't do in London).

I'll tell you one thing I like about the Paris metro...my cell phone works throughout most of the system (not the deeper RER)...it doesn't in many areas of both NYC subway and London tube.

it doesn't in many areas of both NYC subway and London tube.>>>

And for this relief much thanks.

Taking the tube at rush hour is bad enough, but throw in a bunch of nincompoops yelling "I'm on the tube" into their mobiles and you have a vision of hell that would make Dante blanch.

<<Taking the tube at rush hour is bad enough, but throw in a bunch of nincompoops yelling "I'm on the tube" into their mobiles and you have a vision of hell that would make Dante blanch.>>

take the northern line and that is exactly what happens just before Finchley Central - as soon as the train comes out of the tunnel.

Just reading these posts makes me wish I was back in London. I really enjoyed it. My younger sister is on her second 10 day (business) trip.

Oh yeah, another thing I found completely amazing was when you pressed the walk button at a cross walk, they actually worked!

Yes to both janisj about the backpacks and CW about the cell phones! Also please turn down that music that you play in your ears, I really don;t like the exra vibrations!

I love the tube and even more the bus system. But then we have practically no public transport where I live.

Avalon, I don't even fight that battle anymore with the headphones! I just plug in my own. Between the cellphones, obnoxious passengers and Ipods, I never travel without my own headset so that I can block them out. An interesting fact: many people's hearing was protected during the London tube bombings 3 years ago because they were plugged in!

>>Oh yeah, another thing I found completely amazing was when you pressed the walk button at a cross walk, they actually worked!<<

Well, they'll light up: they only change the traffic lights at some sorts of crossing, usually on less busy roads, not all of them.

youngtom2910, thanks for taking the time to post your experiences and tips on London. We're headed to London in September, and I always appreciate hearing the candid reactions of another traveler.

What would you name as your 3 favorite experiences in London? We're headed to London for the first time in September as one of the destinations on our trip to Europe.

Another nice thing is that 99% of drivers obey the rules about zebra crossings...namely once a pedestrian enters a zebra crossing, they must stop.......and indeed they do like I said 99% of the time.