OK I still think Rome sounds cheap...come to ireland and see what I mean. a meal for 2 with 2 starters to meat mains AND wine for fifty dollars is cheap. I am comparing what I would spend in Dublin and london for that and my god it would never be that cheap. Its 33 euro from my calculations and I paid 42.50 for 2 starters, 2 pizzas (personal size) and 3 cokes this sunday...it was lunch at Pizza express/Milanos. This is a chain and NOT post so i think you did better than me for the money!

Its a shock when we see prices in different countries as they are not on scale with our own whether more exp or cheaper. China floors me when I get the bill as its always less than I thought.

I think the meal costs seem to upset julies the most but really if you do the math it's not a huge deal.

Using julies figures for example if a meal previously cost you $30 when the dollar was strong and now costs you $36 with a weak dollar then over two weeks of eating out EVERY night that's an extra $84. For two of you $168.

If you ate out at lunchtime every day for two weeks as well and assuming your lunch was half the price of your dinner the two of you would have spent an additional $84.

So for 2 weeks of eating out at lunch at dinner an extra $250.

In reality most travellers probably don't eat every meal at a sit down restaurant. We're too busy for that and frequently grab a sandwich or slice of pizza as do the locals.

Is an extra $250 on food so horrendous that it's going stop people travelling to Italy?

Julies claimed that they 'hardly ever ate out because it was so expensive' and as a family spending a week in Italy in Nov we didn't either.
We ate breakfast and a few dinners at our apartment. We ate cheap lunches. We shopped at markets for the freshest tomatoes and vegetables I've had in a very long time.
We loved the food we ate, spent a little more than we would have at home but I guess we were on vacation! It was a small percentage in the overall cost of the trip.

I have lived in Minneapolis for 23 years. When I first moved here, the food was horrible and the prices were okay. Now the restaurants have really improved and the prices are very high IMO. When my husband and I travel, we feel that the prices for food are not much higher than here. I do love good food, and I enjoy going to good restaurants, and the wine is sinfully expensive at a restaurant when you know how much a bottle costs at the liquor store. When I go on vacation; however, I have no interest in making a meal. I am on vacation. If I know the place we are heading is expensive, then I try to cut costs in lodging, airfare, and transportation. The eating experience and being out at restaurants with the locals is very important to me.

I can relate to julies; however, because when we first came back from Montreal/Quebec City (Thanksgiving 2007), I said that it would be a while before we go to Europe because of the exchange rate since it seemed so costly in Canada (yet we had a fabulous time!).

My husband and I hadn't traveled to Europe for almost 14 years until we went to Berlin and Milan for a business/personal trip 2 years ago. Having children, putting an addition onto our home, landscaping, etc., we chose to vacation in the US. We have seen so many wonderful and beautiful areas of the US. That trip to Europe; however, made us question why it took so long to go back?

Now, after some time away from our Canada trip, I am planning a Europe trip Spring 2009. As with everything in life, you personally have to decide what it's worth is to you. julies was trying to let people know that it was really hard for her to deal with the exchange rate, and let others know her experience. It isn't worth it for her right now.

I'll just have to figure out how to make this trip work (or maybe go to South America!)

We also live in Minneapolis and went out for dinner last night at a well-known but a neighborhood bistro-type restaurant in Saint Paul. A 1/2 liter of house wine was $16, and it wasn't even close in quality to the wine we drank in Venice, around 8E ($11-12) for a whole liter.

If we go out for Chinese food and order a bottle of wine in Mpls, it would be unlikely we'd spend less than $50.

Without wine, maybe $25-30.

I just came back from Berlin and I never spent more than 19E for a meal with wine. You can find cheap, but nice Chinese or Thai restaurants when traveling.

Venice is extremely touristy and expensive because most people don't live there; they live on the mainland and commute. You have to find places where the locals eat.

Thingorjus

When I checked the Euro/$ exchange rate this morning, I noticed the wholesale rate is more than $1.49 per Euro. This translates roughly into $1.52 per Euro at retail. Not going back until the $ gains strength? You have a long wait ahead of you.

Hi to those of you who also live in Minneapolis. I didn't know there are this many of us out there.

As far as food, most of you seem to have missed the point that the restaurant experiences I was citing were for the bottom of the line, hole-in-the-wall, cheapest places. Think assembly line food, butcher paper on the table instead of tablecloths etc.

These were not the type of places most of you are referring to and thinking about as far as small, interesting Italian restaurants with good food. I know because we walked by nearly all the recommended inexpensive places on our lists (and, we were staying in Trastevre where many of the more inexpensive restaurants are located) and read their menues. If you want these types of places with good cuisine, double the prices I quoted. I'm not kidding either.

Many of the places that were recommended as lower cost and good that we looked at had starters in the E4 to E8 range. Pastas were usually around E9, and mains were in the E12 -15 range. Salads or sides such as potatoes can also cost you extra. Do the math yourself. For 2 people--1 shared starter at E7, 2 pastas at E9, 2 mains at E13, E2 cover, E2 bread, 1 house wine at E10. This adds up to E65. Now multiply this by 1.5 to convert to dollars. We are at $97.50. Food is just not that important to us that we are willing to spend $100 each night for dinner on a 2 week vacation. That's why we chose other options such as the supermarket's prepared food, small pizza and sandwich places etc.

Frankly, I don't care if people think these costs are reasonable or not. I started this thread merely to give others some idea of the costs they will anticipate.

One thing I've noticed in Fodor posts is that many Americans seem to prefer to spend most of their budget on the accomodation, wanting a pretty high standard, leaving less for meals and excursions, wheras most Brits seem to spend less on a hotel room or apartment, but more on 'going out'.

A lot of US posters seem to stay in very upmarket city centre hotels (not that there's anything wrong with that), and then have to eat quite cheaply at horrible chains (leading to comments about poor food overseas) or up the budget to eat at decent restaurants, but then have a very high total expenditure, leading to comments about Europe being pricy. In other words, I don't think it's just about the exchange rate (even though it's undoubtedly a factor).

"Many of the places that were recommended as lower cost and good that we looked at had starters in the E4 to E8 range. Pastas were usually around E9, and mains were in the E12 -15 range. Salads or sides such as potatoes can also cost you extra. Do the math yourself. For 2 people--1 shared starter at E7, 2 pastas at E9, 2 mains at E13, E2 cover, E2 bread, 1 house wine at E10. This adds up to E65. Now multiply this by 1.5 to convert to dollars. We are at $97.50. Food is just not that important to us that we are willing to spend $100 each night for dinner on a 2 week vacation. That's why we chose other options such as the supermarket's prepared food, small pizza and sandwich places etc."

But what were you expecting? That sounds totally normal and reasonable to me (yes I know you said you don't care if we think so ;)) It's nothing to do with the exchange rate, that's just what food costs in European cities. As Siobhan said, I'd have been delighted to pay $50 for an average quality meal. I suggest you don't visit Ireland anytime soon!

julies, I think if we were to take a poll, per capita, I bet there are more Minnesotans out here on the talk forums than from any other state! What are we supposed to do this next week with the below zero temps and highs in the single digits - yes, dream about being somewhere else! Ha!

RM67, I agree that many Americans want to stay in more expensive places because they want larger rooms and more amenities, but the more seasoned traveling Americans don't need this. I also think the safety factor plays into it on where many Americans stay (logical thinking or otherwise) so they think central and expensive will give them safety. julies had great rates at her lodgings and she wasn't expecting the typical American experience. That's not her issue. I think what's going on here for many of us is just adjusting to the exchange rate and eiter dealing with it, and continuing to travel or staying home.

<<Try being an international flight attendent and going to Europe everyweek without getting paid extra(left during the cost cutting era)-its getting ridiculous! That is why some F/A's are bringing food from home or only shopping for food at the grocery store for dinner. Sad!>>

Do you remember when the dollar was strong against the euro? Was it 2000 or 2001? I was on an Air France flight and said something about the great shopping to the AF flight attendant when I got on the plane. His response was "Sure, it's good for you, but we can't buy anything in New York." So, now it's their turn -- it will change again.

I really don't get the OP's complaint about the meal. (2 primis of crummy rigatoni, one stewed rabbit dish, one stewed beef with arugula dish, and one plain winter salad) and cost us $50 including a half liter of house wine for E3.50.

That doesn't seem exhorbitant to me. Pasta, a meat entree and a glass of wine ($4-$5) would cost at least that much here in Florida. And if it did seem like a big expense, why not skip the pasta or the meat entrees.

As far as not traveling to Europe until the exchange improves -- as others said it could be a long time, even if the dollar strengthens, prices tend to go up, not down, so those bargain apartments could cost considerabley more.

I'm planning a trip for this summer and the exchange rate for a US traveller is definitely painful. Don't see how anyone from the US can dispute that. At the same time, I don't expect anyone who's not from the US to feel my pain, I didn't when the shoe was on the other foot. But basically am in sympathy with you, julies.

this will probably sound fairly naive and get knocked down, because I have not been to Italy so have no first-hand experience to base it on.

But has anyone considered the effect of Internet information on foreign travel and prices---
Before access to the Internet, most people would not know what the price of ice cream was in New York or gelato in Roma was unless they went there...hotel rooms were the same way--but now you can price anything from anywhere you can get a signal--so there is common knowledge for what a 4 star hotel in a metropolitan city can get for a room and and other travel needs.

I know that Rome (and Italy in general) gets a tremendous number of visitors, and I KNOW the $$$ to EEE is bad...it is just that things seem to have a high Euro price in general as the other poster mentioned...
When I think about salaries for hotel workers or restaurant workers--some of them are paid low wages--even in top sites...and I did not think Italy was known for the high wages paid to people in jobs like that...
I know they have a ruinous tax system though which is why so many people renting apartments to tourists want to be paid in cash...

I thought most of the food in Rome still came from local markets.. so are farmers getting paid that much for their produce and meat---
or is there just a big mark-up based on perception of what restaurants and hotels can get away with charging?

Does anyone this that global information might also have an impact on cost factors?

Julies,

I most admit I have not read all of the other posts but I am from th UK and going to NYC, Boston and Cape Cod this summer. The £/$ is 2$ to the £ and I am searching the internet to find accommodation under $200 for these locations. I could get a hotel room in either France or Italy for half this amount.

I can't comment on eating or sighting as I have not as yet been.

Hoping it is cheaper than Europe otherwis this is going to be a very expensive holiday for me and that is with a very good exchange rate.

Helen

YOu can get a hotel in New York and Massachusetts for half that amount, also -- but you want a hotel room in the most expensive cities and a very expensive resort area, that's the problem.

I don't know Boston hotels much, but you can certainly get hotel rooms in NY for less than $200 -- depending on the exact dates. They vary a lot by specific dates. For example, Thanksgiving weekend is very expensive, but a regular day in March or May probably not so much. Also, Priceline can work very well in NYC, but I don't know about Boston. I've seen room rates at budget hotels in NY in July around $200, though (Wellington, Salisbury, Jolly Hotel Madison, BW President, etc.). What kind of a hotel can you get in London for 100 GBP? not much. I'm sure folks on the US forum can help with ideas on those.

Many of my friends and aquaintances now travel to Latin America, Africa, Asia, and the Pacific rather than Europe. I think the weak dollar has pushed them beyond their comfort zones of familiar languages and skin color.

Christina,
what one gets for $200 in NYC is as dumpy as in London for 100 pounds.
It seems , if one wishes nice accomodation in big cities, it's going to cost a pretty penny .
No wonder some people are spending their holidays in Vietnamese villages.

jacketwatch

I am not sure that I need to "get a life".I am not continually harping o about a 17% increase in travel costs.

As I said before I have just come back from Norway - the cost of living was at least 200 to 300 % higher than our usual destinations NOT 17%. On our return we simply said "bloddy expensive" but lets book again as soon as we can get the time. We had the time of our lives and would definitely cut off out noses by not returning for the sake of a couple of hundred quid. That would simply be childish. Unless of course some of the posters here cannot afford the 17% extra - which I doubt very much is the case.

markrosy--

The reality is that for Americans travel costs to Europe have increased 84% in the past 6 years.

I know perfectly well that what one gets in NYC for $200 is dumpy. I never said it wasn't, the OP just said they were trying to get something that cheap. Surely they know they are not getting anything nice in NYC for that price, nor would you in London.

I paid $71 for a very nice room, newly renovated in New York in december. Looks like many people that post here havn't been traveling a lot. Anyway..

A village in Vietnam, or visiting the Great Wall of China and Beijing, or at the beach in Thailand, or visiting Macchu Picchu, or an African Safari, or an apartment at Punta del Este Uraguay in season, or golfing in New Zealand.

My point is that there is a lot more to "culture", food and experience than Europe.

I am going to Spain for a week next month and I dont plan on spending too much money, dollars or euro.
I was lucky to be able to rent an apartment in Malaga through a friend for 5 nights for a grand sum of 30 euro a night! I dont know if this will ever happen again but I decided to take advantage of this opportunity. My partner and I love to cook so we will go to the market and cook a dinner or two. We will eat 10 euro meals for lunch which includes 3 courses usually.We probably wont spend more than 20 euro each for dinner. We will take the train(AVE) to Madrid for $40. I found a internet special at a Tryp Hotel for two nights that will on cost 120 euro or 180 euro. So this trip is short and we really wont spend too much money despite the lousy exchange rate. I am thinking about less than $1000 including meals and lodging for two for a week. I dont think that is too bad.
Last year we went to Ireland for a week. The exchange rate was better at that time . 1,32 if I recall correctly. AH the good old days. We found reasonable lodging but found eating out really expensive. It was hard to find a lunch for less than 15 euro. But it was worth it for sure. I love Irish food!
Portugal is another option and probably the least expensive in all Europe.

a nice room in NYC for 70 dollars?

people's idea of "nice" must vary hugely !

Yes please share where that $71 a room night in NYC is, I'd love to know. Seriously

And while I feel julies pain about things costing more than they did a few years ago in Europe I still think Europe is a tremendous bargain compared to most travel in the US. This March I am going on a trip to Charleston, Savannah and St Augustine, instead of the trip I originally planned to Rome - it was a timing thing, not a money issue that made me decide to stay in the US. But I certainly figured I'd save a bit. Then I tried to book hotels. My god, I have never spent the kind of money on any European hotel (incuding central London and Paris during high season) that you need to spend to get a hotel in the historic district of those cities in March. And they are not large "world class" cities. And I am just so lucky to have friends/relatives in NYC and Boston or I'd rarely be able to afford to go there.

Travel to most worthwhile places costs more than we think it should, but Europe, even with a poor exchange rate, is no worse than much of the US and has so very much to offer that I just feel sorry for people who can't rationalize the cost to go. Oh well, less crowds for those of us who do go.

$71 quite easy, you start from the bus terminal and anything within a 20min ride is o.k. Been to a nice "Red roof" that has just reopened. :D. I could also tell you were to get a nice room 2 stops from Tokyo central station or downtown Paris for $50. The Paris thing I've already posted... Also can do Prague for $30 and I'm not the one that stays in dirty places.

Markrosy: Again we are all enitled to our opinions. The OP stated his. It would be nice to accept it w/o hammering his presumed "class" position in life, whatever that may be. Thank you for a more detailed explanation of your POV.

Isabel, when are you going to Savannah? I was going to go this weekend but I thought that I'd save the $$$ to spend in Spain. Anyway, I saw many properties for aproximately $120 in the historic section of the city. Check Travelocity and Orbitz.
Yes, our major US are expensive for lodging but not the in other cities.There are bargains out there. You have to look.

I started traveling to Europe on a regular basis in 2000. I was thrilled that it seemed such a bargain compared to the US, and for several years I took advantage of that. Now it is, as stated earlier, about 84% more expensive when paying for a European trip in dollars than it was in 2000. So now it isn't such a bargain at all. I feel fortunate that I caught that period of time and was able to take a few trips at the much more favorable rate, and it is easy to see how such an increase would put somebody off of European travel.

It's not the 'bargain' it was in 2000-2003, but I still fell in most cases you get more for your money (even after converting, but obviously less so now) than in the US. In the US I usually stay at budget chain motels - clean, but no charm and the locations are not good. Budget lodging in Europe tends to be 'quaint' little places, in great locations. Budget food in the us tends to be greasy hamburgers whereas in Italy it's fresh delicious pizza or in France a panini, etc. Just overall better. That's a generalization, you can get a great slice of wonderful pizza in NYC for $2, but overall, in general - harder to eat good tasting food on the cheap in the US. Same with transportation - more convenient, inexpensive train and bus connections between places than can be found here.

travelme - I'm going to those cities in March, which I understand is high season, that's why I used the example of Paris and London at high season. I do know that if I were to go some other time it would be less.

I consider myself quite good at math and do not understand the 84% number being thrown around.

Even if we consider an exchange rate of 1.5$/E now and 0.9$/E in 2000, (even though the Euro was not being used then), that is only an increase of 67%.

?

I'm a bit baffled by the 87% too.

I recently opted not to attend a three-day conference in Miami in May because air, hotel and conference fees would equal what 8 days in Paris is costing me [air, hotel (split with sister) and sight/museum fees] a month earlier. I guess it's all relative?

I did not do the math, I used the figure given earlier. However, my memory is that when I first got a credit card statement in euros, the exchange rate was substantially lower than 90 dollars per euro. And checking now, I see that in 2000, the lowest rate was 0.8252 dollars per euro.

The cost of Europe is too much for me right now. So I've been going to Asia the last 2 years. Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand and China. So my money goes further even though the airfare is more. At least when I get there I can really enjoy myself - eating good food - drinks -sightseeing - hire car with driver - and even shopping. The last few trips to Europe I couldn't afford any shopping. Not that it's that important, but it's fun. I'm glad I did a lot of European travel when the dollar was better.

My experience in Venice is different.

The first time we were in Venice in 2003 we stayed at a hotel and ate out everyday and yes, it was pricy.

Last year we went back and stayed at an apartment instead. Instead of paying 170euro (for 2) for a small hotel room, we paid ~250euro for a 2-bedroom apartment for 4, so it was 125euro for 2 people.

Since there was a kitchen and we were there 5 days we didn't feel like eating out every night. A couple of times we went to the market and was pleasantly surprised at how much cheaper it is to buy food and have a home-cooked meal! I remember getting large shrimps for 4 people (for ~3-4 euros) and getting fresh pasta at a shop close to the apartment, and I made a roasted red pepper pesto with shrimps thrown on top. the meal costed about ~10 euros for 4 people!!

I would not want to do that everyday, afterall we are on vacations. But honestly I do get tired of eating out everyday. Having a home-cooked meal during vacation is so much more relaxing!

There is such value in planning a trip very carefully. STUDY the prices of things, whereever you go. Almost all of us have a threshold where something is so costly that it just isn't fun anymore...the threshold varies with each person, but almost all of us have it.

Before every trip to Disneyworld, I have my husband look at on-line menus a few times, so he won't be shocked out of his brain at the prices once he gets there. When planning a trip to Europe, look at the price of the activities you're "on the fence" about. Will paying $15 a person zap all the fun out of that small musuem? We live near the Gaylord Texan and my husband kept wanting to go to the Ice exhibit. I just couldn't handle paying $20 per person for something I'd walk though in 15 minutes.

I will say that when we were in Italy in 2006, we were very very cost conscious when choosing restaurants and had bad meal after bad meal. When we went to Barcelona in 2007, I decided to be willing to spend a bit more money, and we had terrific meals. I bet for the 5 of us, the total cost was only $300-400, but it made so much difference in the quality of our experience.

What does confuse me is the fact that in the reverse situation - we should be flooding to the states shouting about what a cheap destination it is - I have just chosen The Abacos over Cape Cod as I still need a bank loan to afford the rentals on Cape Cod - we have always found eating out well in the states to be quoted price for quoted price very similar to the UK but in the states we are expected to pay the staff costs in the form of an insane 25% tip. That makes eating out at good quality restaurants slightly more expensive in the states but it is of course VERY difficult to compare like with like.

One area where the States always wins for Brits is clothing which is very much cheaper than in the UK.

I still am trying to get to the bottom of what is being said above - is it US travellers can't afford the cost of European travel or is it that it has become relatively more expensive which naffs you off and encourages you not to come?

BTW There is a lot more to Italy than the overcrowded, architectural mess Rome has become. As I said before much of the rest of Italy has far lower living costs, is closer to recession than much of the rest of the West and probably needs your tourist income far more than Rome. Whether the incease is 17% or 84% - you could save more than enough offset the rate movements by staying away from the tourist traps.

markrosy, you post an interesting question and I can obviously only speak for myself but with the rising costs in airfare (which seems to currently be up by about 30-35% from previous years) and the poor exchange rate Europe is not as affordable for us right now. We would like to go to Europe for a short week this fall, and I have been pricing airfare, but I don't know if I can justify spending $1700 or $1800 just for the airfare for a 6 night trip. We love apartments so lodging isn't really an issue, but all in all it makes for a very expensive week. Of course I can't complain because I am also going to Europe (back to Germany) for a week in April, but we used the last of our FF miles for the tickets. We used to travel to Europe twice a year, but I don't think that's going to be a reality any more unless things start to change.

Tracy

First, if you get a cheap airfare, that really takes the edge off the total price. What good is it to me if Argentina is half as expensive as Italy, if it costs twice as much to get there? (I'm not saying this is exactly correct, but just using an example.)

I was considering going to NYC with my daughter for spring break. As it turns out, we got airfare to Europe that is approximately the same price as NYC. And for accommodations, we have perfectly acceptable hotels with ensuite rooms that will work out to about 65 Euros per night, including good breakfasts. I am doubtful we would have achieved this in NYC.

One advantage NYC has is that the jetlag is much easier, and the flight time is shorter. And to be fair, if we had gone to San Francisco instead, we might have achieved something equivalent with hotel rooms, and the airfare would have been about $150 cheaper.

"Faux frescoes"? I'll take that as a cheap shot at me and say it is utterly irrelevant. Just because I DON'T dig slumming in a one star hotel for $200+ a night and DON'T think it's worth my time researching affordable rural Italian pensions and then drinking only the house wine and eating picnic lunches for two meals a day in order to be able to afford Italy these days does NOT mean I want to go to Vegas and view substitute glitz of European inspiration.

And if you consider a 3 star hotel over-indulgent and constituting lavish service, then perhaps you would enjoy a camping forum more than this one.