Okay- I want to take my 17 year old daughter on one last vacation prior to college, etc.
I was thinking Italy- but mostly because I have always wanted to go there- and I will at some point. Doesn't have to be now.

What would you seasoned travelers consider the "most bang for the buck" for a mother and a teenager?
I am talking about traveling this April (could even be Feb school vacation if that was possible at this late date).

8-10 days, flying from Boston area.

I have spent a lot of time researching Italy- but I could easily be persuaded to change if someone had a more "cost effective" trip.

Thanks for any input. As for the questions "what is it that you enjoy doing?" we have never been anywhere that we did not have fun. I think that just being exposed to the idea that there is a whole big world out there is educational and interesting for us both.

Thanks for any ideas or thoughts!

Julies~~will you share the info on your apartment in Rome? Thank you.

"Everywhere in the euro zone, the exchange rate is the same." Yes, but your euros buy much, much more when you get out of the main cities. You can still afford to travel to Western Europe; just spend your time in small towns and use public transportation. Cheapest are the places not discussed in depth in every guidebook.

I love Europe as much as the next person, but I do think that julies has a point. Even without the poor exchange rate, airfare has gone up so much that we will probably only take a few more trips to Europe (the next one being back to Germany in April, although we used FF miles for that). I am pricing airfare to Europe for this fall (October or November) and am barely seeing anything under $800 per person. In 2005 we went to Paris for $330 per person! Those days seem to be long gone.

I do find Germany to be cheaper than many other countries in Europe, and we plan on renting apartments while on our trip. We have traveled to centra/eastern Europe and to be honest we haven't found it to be that much less expensive than Western Europe. True, many of these countries aren't on the euro, but many of the currencies (ie the Croatian kuna) seem to be tied to the euro so that when it goes up the kuna goes up. And hotel prices in central/eastern Europe are usually pretty pricy, especially for what you get.

We are fortunate in that we have traveled to Europe about 10 times in the past 5 years, so we have seen quite a bit. Rising airfare prices and a weak currency mean that in the future we will probably be focusing our vacations on South America and Asia.

Tracy

Italy used to be one of the cheapest places in Europe. Same thing for Spain. My first rip to Spain, the carpenters were on strike - trying to get a raise to $2.50 PER DAY.

Darn that prosperity!

I never said that I didn't think we did well as far as containing costs. Our last minute airfares were good--MSP to Rome at just undet $600 per person. And, we found nice apartments at good prices. But, I know from reading tons of posts on this site in years' past, that we tend to travel more cheaply than many, many who post here. And, I think this is what has enable us to take so mamy trips.

Just thought I'd add in that I have been reading LowCountry Islander's Rome Christmas trip report. Here are the costs she has included so far. Ride from airport to hotel--E45 ($68). Lunch E35 ($52) for 2. Walking tour--E40 ($60) per person. A nice dinner--E125 ($187)for 2.

One issue, for me anyway, is that I read a price in euros and don't think it sounds too bad. Then, I do the conversion, and it hits me what the real cost is. Maybe others are this way too.

grapestoo--

Here is the link to the apartment we stayed in in Rome. Nice location in Trastevere. As I recall, the website doesn't have a price quote. I think we just e-mailed and asked about the apartment. I suspect that we got a bargain price becaue we were filling in a last minute cancellation at a particularly slow time of year.

http://www.liveromelikearoman.com/comments.htm

If anyone is interested, here is the link to our Venice apartment. This too was a nice place.

http://www.veniceapartments.org/html/marco_polo.html

I think you are giving a fair warning to people about these cities. I think that what might bother some is that many people read in the subtext that these two extraordinary cities aren't worth it.

I think Rome is the most expensive city I have visited, not because it has to be, but because I wanted to have all the options. It worked out like this for a solo traveler, on a typical expensive day (although not all were so expensive):
50 Euros per night hotel & breakfast
35 Euros per day food (one meal + snacks, more or less)
20 Euros per day walking tours
25 Euros per day admissions and audiophones
15 Euros per day concert
5 Euros per day transport

Given that many people happily spend 150 Euros per person per night for a hotel room, 100 Euros per person per day for food, etc. the price could easily zoom out of sight.

Hi julies, you stayed in a very nice apartment in Rome. I understand how you feel. Converting from euro into dollars it does become apparent quickly how expensive things are.

Two first courses of pasta, two main dishes with meat, one salad and wine for two would cost more than $50 at Denny's and that is a crummy place indeed. At least you dined in Rome.

I don't know Denny's, but I was thinking that 25 quid was quite reasonable for two courses plus wine.

Pfft I only dream of paying 25 dollars (or even pounds) for a meal with wine. I'd be delighted to get a meal for two for $50 here in Ireland.....I always pay at least 60 euro for 2 starters, 2 mains and a glass of wine, no dessert. Nothing the OP posted seemed expensive to me at all. And it's not as if Europeans earn huge salaries, I only make about 11 euros an hour. I lived in New York last year and found it cheap compared to here, and I was paid in American dollars, so it wasn't a question of the weak dollar. Europe is just expensive, even for Europeans.

It boils down to this simple statement:

It's expensive anywhere in Europe and the US for someone that makes 11€ an hour.

You're missing the point. I said a 50 dollar meal seems normal, in fact, quite cheap to me, compared to what I'm used to. Europe is expensive for everyone compared to the US - at least in countries like the UK, Ireland, Italy, no matter what you earn. From my experience, you need to be earning 6 figures (100,000+ euro) in Ireland to even begin to have the same lifestyle as a regular middle class family in the States (I've lived in both places). The higher salaries do not make up for the higher prices we pay for almost everything. The lowest tax bracket here is 20% - even on 11 euro/hour.

So you left the US to work for less money in an far to expensive place?

There seem to be many comparisons to Denny's here in the US. I haven't been in a Denny's in at least 30 years & have no desire to ever go to one. But, I can get a much nicer meal for about the same total price at one of the numerous small, ethnic restaurants in Minneapolis where I live than we had at the Rome restaurant I mentioned.

I should also mention that this was a last minute planned and organized trip. We confirmed our apartment reservations only 10 -14 days prior to our rentals. Looking back I am now certain that this was the reason I got them at the great prices I did. Thus, these places would have normally been even more expensive.

I've been to Denny's and it was some of the wost food ever. The $30 pizza and beer in New Jersey were quite o.k. otoh. ;-)

"So you left the US to work for less money in an far to expensive place?"

Are you talking to me? If so, I'm amused at your assumptions. I'm not American at all. I worked for a short time in New York, as I have in several European countries other than the one I live in. I have family in the US who I visit fairly often but I'm not American and was not brought up there.

"There seem to be many comparisons to Denny's here in the US. I haven't been in a Denny's in at least 30 years & have no desire to ever go to one. But, I can get a much nicer meal for about the same total price at one of the numerous small, ethnic restaurants in Minneapolis where I live than we had at the Rome restaurant I mentioned."

What does that matter, though? You can get a lovely meal in Bangkok or Kuala Lumpur for much less than in Minneapolis. Some places are just more expensive than others. You can't expect to go to Rome and eat cheaply ? You'd be lucky to spend less than 15 dollars between you in McDonalds. As I said, it's not really to do with the weak dollars, Rome is expensive for Italians and other Europeans as well.

"I should also mention that this was a last minute planned and organized trip. We confirmed our apartment reservations only 10 -14 days prior to our rentals. Looking back I am now certain that this was the reason I got them at the great prices I did. Thus, these places would have normally been even more expensive."

Even more expensive? But they were cheap, much cheaper than average. You surely can't expect accommodation, except in a hostel, for much less than that?

julies

cross Norway off your list of to dos - the main courses at a basic restaurant start at $60. A decent meal with wine will come in at over $250 (ANYWHERE).

I do however have to offer the stock answer to such posts - what did you expect from any major world city.

We have travelled up and down ever inch of the US East coast. I was financially raped, robbed and pillaged in NYC. In areas of coastal NC/SC could spend the money - ended up using dollar bills as firelighter paper for beach fires!!!

Its all down to location - to to certain areas of Italy and you end up paying what we did in September -2 coffees + three muffins = 5 euros. You will pay 7 euros for one coffee in some areas of Italy.

Julies's sole criterion seems to be whether it's more or less expensive than Minneapolis.

Rome has a two-thousand year history? Venice is unique in the world?

It's immaterial: They're more expensive than Minneapolis.

Yes, I agree with mariposa, Europe is expensive (in general) for everybody. Sure there are lots of places that are not, but none of them are on big tourism spots.
The problem is not the weak dollar, believe it or not. But, though I've never been, I can't believe that big cities and tourist spots are any cheap in the States. I still cannot afford to go to NYC...even with the weak dollar.

The weak dollar is irrelevant. It only magnifies the problem of Italy being inherently expensive by 150%. Like I said, the euro could be worth $0.01 and the prices in Italy would still be comparatively expensive. Compare the price of espresso in Italy (about €1.00) to the same thing in Portugal (about €0.55). Do not multiply those numbers by the dollar-to-euro exchange rate, do not pass GO, do not collect $200 (or €133 ;-) ).

It's a drag that the dollar is weak, but it still seems you can get lodging in Europe so much less expensive than in the U.S. You said "average cost $105 a night for 2 people for nice apartments in good locations".

That sounds pretty good to us, since we drove across the U.S. this summer, and paid $129- $169/night for the cheap motels we stopped in along the way.
:)>-

To me the problem with the expense of going to Europe isn't with the lodging, it's with everything else. With the exception of central/eastern Europe (where hotels seem to be more expensive), hotel prices can be fairly low, especially outside of the bigger cities and tourist areas. We generally book apartments to help offset some of the price. But it's the food prices, transportation (mainly to/from the airport), sightseeing, etc. that all adds up to an expensive trip in the end.

After three trips to Rome I've come to the conclusion that the food is expensive and usually mediocre unless you spend lots of money or happen to stumble into a great affordable trattoria. Not to say that the food in Rome is bad, just that we've had many not so great experiences. We love Rome and just being there makes anything taste better, but it's hard not to think about what you are spending.

For those who compare Rome (or any other city in Europe) to NYC, I do agree that NYC too is expensive. I haven't been in several years. To be honest I have very little desire to go back, but even if I wanted to the prices for a decent hotel in a great location are expensive. My husband and I tend to do more budget travel, mainly because we love to get out and explore so we don't spend a lot of time in our room with the exception of sleeping, so I hate spending $150- $200 on a hotel room.

Tracy

Mediocre food in Rome unless you spend lots of money? Wow. We've spent a total of nearly a month in Rome over the years, and I can only remember a few meals I'd describe as mediocre, usually lunch when we haven't put much effort into choosing a place. We're not foodies -- I say we "eat" rather than "dine" -- but we've had wonderful meals at what I consider to be very reasonable prices.

Jean, to each their own but after three trips to Rome we have only had a few really good meals. I guess it's just the luck of the draw. I'm absolutely not a foodie (probably the opposite) but this was my experience. I love Italian food, and have had great luck outside of Rome, but just have not had great experiences with my food choices in Rome with a few exceptions. And before anyone asks, yes we steer clear of the touristy areas and try to seek out places frequented by more locals.

Tracy

logos--glad I don't go to New Jersey for pizza and beer!!! $30, Wow! Wife and I pay about $20 for a good pizza (not chain stuff) with beer or wine here in central Maryland. We'd pay less except we get a large pizza and take the leftovers for lunch at work the next day. So 2 meals for 2 people.

The closer you get to New York City, the crazier it gets. They don't know or respect any limits. However, the owner was from Italy and the pizza was quite good. Chinese places were quite o.k. in the US too. Not great, but whithout the "strage" taste of a Dennys or Shoneys. (What the heck do they use to prepare their food. It looks like food, but tastes so repulsive?)

After a few days, when I watched the TV commercials (esp. the one with the family guy cartoon in it), I was close to vomitting, it just looked so awful.

Well, at least it was a good pizza!

Actually Rome/Venice is like saying NYC/LA.

We rent a very comfortable house in The Abruzzo every September-October. The prices in the region are of course more than the prices of 3 years ago, but still, the people, food, wine and the wealth of history in the region make it all WELL, WELL worth it. Planning to return this year!

Why do you all keep talking about Denney's anyway. This isn't a very common place in the US, I haven't even seen one in a couple decades, and haven't eaten in one for the same time. Even then, it was just a cheap diner where you might stop for lunch on a road trip, not where people who go out for dinner (and they weren't in cities, either). I haven't seen one since I lived in California that long ago, and didn't even know they existed anywhere else. I've never seen one where I live now in Maryland, nor between here and Ohio, where I visit relatives. I've never heard of Shoney's, either.

How about comparing that dinner to Olive Garden, that would make more sense, and I think those are more common.

now maybe a Cracker Barrel -- yum

The best buffet I've ever had was in Las Vegas. That was sooo great and not expensive!, but then there's the desert. You just wish you'd be back there every day of you trip for dinner only...

Hi Tracy (tcreath),

Hope you and DH are well and had good holidays :-)
They were a bit of a whirlwind for us... we had "The 12 Days of Relatives" at our house ;-)
When you get a free minute, would you please email me at herodotus02 (@yahoo.com)? I broke it up to avoid getting a slot of spam but there are no spaces.

Thanks!
jill

Hey Jill!

I'm going to send you an e-mail now! My e-mail address starts with "bella_roma78".

Tracy

Wait a minute here. I did not criticize either Rome or Venice or Italy. I just said that the weak dollar makes things in western Europe much more expensive, and the lower the dollar sinks the more expensive visiting Europe becomes. The whole comparative costs of restaurants in various cities is irrelevant.

I could have visited Rome 1 1/2 years ago, and it would have cost me 17% less solely due to currency exchange ratios. Or, I could have visited 6 years ago when the dollar was at its peak against the euro. For the sake of comparison, assume prices for things were exactly the same six years ago as now. Using this comparison basis, prices and trip costs today for an American are 84% higher.

Perhaps some of you don't understand what I am commenting on when I do the math and I say that a meal that is E24 will cost an American $36 because every price in euros has to be multiplied by 1.5. This is a significant increase. So, when I visited Europe in July 06 and the exchange rate was 1E = $1.26, that same meal would have cost me $30 rather than the $36 it cost me now. Thus, everything related to the trip that was quoted in euros now costs 17% more than it did then.

We went to Turkey in May 07, and the euro was trading at 1E for $1.36. Now 1E is closer to $1.47. This is what I am referring to when I talk about how expensive things have become. When one starts to look at all trip expenses and keeps seeing the steady percentage of cost increases, European travel starts to look quite pricey to an American who can see how lttle the dollar buys compared to not too long ago.

And, I have also visited a number of other pricey Euroepan capital cities in the past. I do not remember having the same impression that costs were runaway. This is because I could get more for my dollar then.

Even in the mid 1980's, eating at a restaurant in Rome was expensive.

Probably the most expensive city for dining out that I've ever visited. And I've been to Paris, London, NY, and live in LA.

So julie's warning might be useful.

I don't have any urge to visit Europe again, even with free lodging.

Does an increase of 17% really prevent travellers from travelling - I very much doubt it. I think the whole exchange rate issue is an excuse for the chattering classes to moan.

I agree with the original poster; I don't plan on going back to Europe until the dollar strengthens either. We like to stay at 3-4 star hotels and eat at mid-level restaurants, and most of Europe (at least of personal interest) is just too expensive to bother with anymore unless you go off season. Even then, although you will get there and stay there cheaper, it is just as much to eat and drink, visit museums, etc.

I have also been unimpressed by the so-called affordability of Central and Eastern Europe-while it IS cheaper than France & Italy (for 2 examples) and there are bargains, in my experience the bargains must be actively sought out.

I personally hate penny pinching and will not do so just to get to Europe, not when I can stay in luxury or near luxury for less money by staying in the U.S.

Markrosy: Just let the OP have his say w/o sounding like Louis Winthorpe, at least B4 he met Billy Ray Valentine. Get a life. :S-.

If you seek lavish service, over-indulgence, and faux frescos etc. I certainly agree that a sstay in a U.S.

If you seek lavish service, over-indulgence, food as whimsy art, and faux frescos etc. I certainly agree that a stay in a U.S. "Ritz Carlton type" destination is right for you. However, the experience of living/visiting, feeling a different culture, speaking a second language, exploring the culture and history of foods and wines, is just a "wee bit" different, regardless of bump up in the currency exchange rate!