Japanese couple stung by Rome restaurant - €700 lunch bill!
 

"A Japanese couple have turned down a free trip to Italy as guests of the Italian Government .... offered to them to make up for an enormous restaurant bill served up to them while in Rome.

"Yasuyuki Yamada and his fiancee had dined at Il Passetto last month when they were hit with a bill for €700...)"

http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-...0803-e6ha.html

Struth, Neil. Maybe that is the Italians taking revenge for the hideous prices that one notes in Japanese restaurents.

Hello Neil, the Il Passetto certainly has received a lot of publicity but not the type they relish I would imagine.

I don't know if you remember but my Rome born and bred son-in-law had a similar experience in Rome a few years ago and he is a native Italian of course and needless to say speaks fluent Italian. I don't know what he and my daughter were charged but I know they were overly stressed the entire night and didn't sleep very well.

Obviously, the mentioned couple were not the only one who had been ripped off by Il Passetto:

http://www.blogfromitaly.com/the-rip...passetto-rome/

There are two simple rules to avoid such frauds:

1. Never eat in a restaurant that is located at spot (e.g. square) which is highly frequented by tourists.

2. Prefer restaurants which are recommended by the Guide Michelin or another reliable guide (e.g. Gault Millau).

BTW, is it open again? The website says "Open every day of the year".

I have just looked at their website, the Japanese may not have realised that this is a very expensive place. You have to pay for the site and the decoration it is like the Piazza San Marco in Venice. The owners will also have to pay the city of Rome for their site. If you want to eat in a restaurant that hosted Charlie Chaplin and Queen Elizabeth II you would expect to pay.

It specialises in truffles, Porcini mushrooms. They will not have a cheap bottle of wine on the premises, except perhaps for the staff. The Japanese ate according to the Australian report
"They ordered 12 oysters, two kilos of lobsters, wine, 1.5 kg of seabass and even took photos with the waiters before leaving," owner Franco Fioravanti told Rome's Il Messaggero daily.

Fish, lobsters and steak appear on this type of menu by weight, it is not a priced dish you pay for what you eat.

Service charges are usually a percentage of the total. The cover charge is usually a flat fee and can be seen before entering the restaurant but for this location is will be high.

As a normal tourist I check the prices outside before I enter and if I can't see them I look elsewhere. I am sure they were very nice people but if they entered with shopping bags from all the right stores (Hermes etc. ) the restaurant staff would probably expect that they knew what they were letting themselves in for.

I don't know if Japanese guide books explain the pricing system in Italy but perhaps they should.

If you check out the website, http://www.ristorante-passetto.com/, it says

"With over 100 years of history in the heart of Rome, this is place for those who love to indulge in the culinary arts without limits. Its rich, traditional italian cuisine along with innovative international dishes, Passetto offers fresh fish and seafood daily, top quality porcini mushrooms, ovoli mushrooms, white truffles from Alba, wild berries etc".

I agree that 700E was very, very high, but it would appear that it is not all that unusual for what they had and where they had it.

((I))

While I understand that the couple ordered expensive items, EUR 700 is pretty ridiculous. This seems like some serious tourist inflation rather than a misunderstanding to me, and I can see why the authorities are so keen to nip this in the bud.

I'm also skeptical of the claim that it was the couple's decision to leave a tip, as noted by the owner. If these were Americans, maybe, but Japanese tourists? That seems kind of dubious, since tipping is simply not done in Japan. Not, uncommon like in Europe, just not done.

> since tipping is simply not done in Japan ..

In japan that's true but the Japanese that travel to Europe, North America, etc learn usually the custom of tipping by reading guide books and other means.

Anyway I read a couple of articles in Japanese last week. They seemed much more detailed than the article above posted by OP. That's not to say what I read was true BUT according to them, it was the restaurant who added €120 to the check of €580 so total € 700 with tips (tehy paid with C.C.). The Japanese couple argued with the restaurant to no avail then went to the police. I am a bit surprised that the police took it seriously but doesn't that mean the restaurant had been known for its dubious activities already? Also not mentioned on above artilces but those I read said the restaurant had been closed mostly because of the hygenic problems they discovered during the rip-off investigation. The mayor of Roma is angry with the restaurnat, the artiles added.

We returned from a trip to Italy, Greece and Turkey. We paid $550 USD for a tour, $250 for lunch most days and an astronomical price for taxi rides.
Good luck. Most taxi drivers won't give you a ride unless you agree to book a 3 or 4 hr tour w/them.

What?!?!

If you want to spend $250 for lunch every day, that is your business -- and waistline, but where did you meet these taxi drivers? Did you carry a sign saying, "Rich Sucker"?

:-(

$250 for lunch? 700E for lunch?

Do you not read menus and check prices before you enter the restaurant? How daft are people?

If I can't see a menu, which includes prices, then I don't eat there. I'm not going to be the sucker who was born at the minute of my birth -- leave that to someone else.

And Peter S Aus -- we ate well and not expensively in Japan. It's not that hard.

> Do you not read menus and check prices before you enter the restaurant?

I don't think it's that simple with this restaurant's case. After all, why did the police take the complaint seriously?

> And Peter S Aus -- we ate well and not expensively in Japan. It's not that hard.

There I completely agree. Maybe Peter S Aus has not been to Japan or cose to take only expensive meals there.

Mar35ge - I went and checked your profile - this was not your first trip to Europe. Maybe it would be good to do a trip report for us. I don't mean to be contentious (as some posters can be at times) but I really do not understand how it could be so pricey for you. At first I thought you were on a cruise where often taxi drivers in port do not want to do short rides, but almost insist on tours) - and what restaurants were you eating at? We were in Greece and Trukey in May - we did not spend that kind of money - I could never afford Europe if that was what normal prices are. Please, you are scaring the first timers!

700 seems excessive for lunch, regardless of the type of restaurant or clientele it serves. I have seen inflated prices on my receipts, although only a few euro, in Rome.

Mar35ge, I think your post is very misleading as well. I'm sure one could certainly choose to eat at places that charge 250 euro for lunch, but that is absolutely not the norm. And I've never been turned down by a taxi driver for not wanting to take a tour. I have been to Italy and we were in Turkey in February and the prices for food in Turkey was, imo, very reasonable.

Tracy

Why should anyone be scared of Mar35ge's post? It's patently ridiculous to pay $250 for lunch on a daily basis in Europe unless your whole trip is an Abercrombie & Kent style luxury tour. If you have that kind of disposable income and wish to dispose of it, enjoy. If not, it's easy to discover that Europe is by no means that expensive -- how could the Lonely Planet crowd survive if that were the case?

Considering that Turkey is very inexpensive and Greece is not bad in the least, the notion of paying such prices in those countries as an average or normal meal is ludicrous on its face.

Besides, are you really seeing the country and enjoying the culture if you're having a sit-down three-hour seven-course lunch -- which should be the only way you're doling out $250 for lunch? (If you're paying $250 to get a gyro and a coke at a sidewalk gyro stand in Greece, you're just a dope).

Maybe Mar35ge was traveling with 10 people, thus, each person spent $25 on lunch, which is reasonable for Italy, IMHO. Cannot comment on the other two countries since I have not been there yet.

I am startled by some posters' attempts to justify the restaurant's bill.

The Italian Police, the City of Rome and the Italian Government have all declared that it has been outright fraud. The restaurant was closed by the authorities and the Italian government has offered the Japanese couple a generous compensation (which they stylishly declined).

The normal price for a menu in this restaurant is 50-60 Euros - and this is already overpriced. Il Passetto has no reputation of being a gourmet restaurant.

It was a rip-off. Period. If you read this forum regularly, it will not happen to you.

€207 for a pasta dish ??

Sure makes that $100 manhattan Kobe burger look like an alternative

Cannot imagine that anyone thinks you need to pay $250 for a lunch in any city it Italy, Greece or Turkey. If yuo go to all Michelin starred places and order bottles of fine wine - of course you will. But there are hundreds of places to go and eat a casuale lunch for $25 - unless you're a ravenous teenage boy that has to have 3 or 4 main courses.

Almost all restaurants post prices outside - so you know going in approximately what your lunch will cost. If you can't add - well then you have a bigger problem.

As for this taxi nonsense - perhaps it's true of cabs that hang aorund ports - I've never done that. But have take cabs in europe hundreds of times and only had a problem once (he tried to overcharge us in Prague - by about $10 - and lost).

I was not going to add any more to this topic but I wanted to know what the current price of Alba truffles is. Perhaps this is what they had in their pasta dish, e.g. risotto.

This story gives you some idea of the price and another controversy over truffles in a restaurant.

http://www.reuters.com/article/oddly...51G5BY20090218

Without more information we cannot judge the precise nature of the dispute of the Japanese over their bill.

>We paid $550 USD for a tour, $250 for lunch most days and an astronomical price for taxi rides.<

That is so far above my wage grade that i can't comment.

Ditto the truffles at 11E/gram ($7000/lb)

Ditto eating a jar of Beluga or Osetra caviar by myself.

((I))

<i>mar35ge on Aug 3, 09 at 11:24 AM
We returned from a trip to Italy, Greece and Turkey. We paid $550 USD for a tour, $250 for lunch most days and an astronomical price for taxi rides.</i>

Perhaps mar35ge was on a Cruise tour of those places, and the prices for tours and lunches were the ones organized by the cruise company and were for multiple people in her group?

Someone I knew recently returned from a cruise to Greece & Italy. He said all those excursion tours were very expensive, but those were his only option at most ports (unless he just stayed on the ship).

Hello yk, can't a passenger on a cruise make their own arrangements when at a port? While on the few cruises we took we always did, but the cruises were not in Europe.

Ira,
We were caught with a very small jar of 'Caspian' caviar(sevruga?) on our way out of 'Leningrad' circa 1980, we were forced to eat it or lose it. We split it amongst 3(though I offered to eat it all myself) on some old steel benches with old crackers.

Hi LoveItaly, I have never taken a cruise, so I'm just relating what this person told me. My understanding is that many of the ports docked are not near the city center (eg, Civitavecchia for Rome). Many people - NOT Fodorites, of course - don't have the time to research or have the courage to DIY [and this possibly explains why these people chose a cruise to tour Greece and Italy instead of visiting these places on their own by land.]

Hello yk, yes that makes sense of course. I have had friends that wouldn't even go to NYC until their daughter started living there. In fact I know a few couples that would and will not go to San Francisco unless I went/go with them to play "travel guide" etc.

We only took a few cruises. We had fun of course but cruises were not our cup of tea. Have never taken a land tour.

Hope all is well with you and your family!

Gotta say that Mar35ge has freaked me out a bit! I'm currently planning my 1st trip to Italy (10 days, "Italy trip for 3 chicks") for this September, and I didn't realize that this could be such an issue...Is this aforementioned "Michelin Guide" something I want to travel with? I am a bit of a foodie,and am looking forward to some hopefully amazing meals, but know that often the best food is not always the priciest. I hope?

oh my, this isnt an issue at all in my opinion. All restaurants post menus at their door...look and see what they charge. Just note that some fish, meat etc is sold by weight and be careful about clarifying the price first if you order it. You can find lovely meals for no where near that price. You can really find meals for any budget.

Enjoy your vacation!

not to worry, Pezlie...evidently our $250 for lunch poster has never heard the term <b>"Mom amd Pop"</b>, right <u>Big Russ?</u>

Good gawd, Italy has a "mom and pop" on every street corner and 1000's of restaurants that will pleasantly feed a family of 10-15 good offerings for that money. Ditto Greece. If I were the poster I'm sure I'd be reluctant to admit such a <i>faux pas</i>....but in the posters favor, there sure as hell are more than just a few who would do the same without batting an eye...no two travelers travel alike...for them, the word is "enjoy"...just don't crassly post it because, really, no one gives a fat damn.

The Michelin Guides have changed. 10 years ago I would never expected them to mention Pauline's Pizza in SF even though it is one of the best pizzas in town. Similarly they mention more and more often places where one can eat well and relatively inexpensively--but will it satisfy a foodie?

I have to vouch for the Italians and Italian restaurant owners on a cultural difference that most people from other countries might be unaware of. Food is a particular passion of the Italians, which secures a complex dining etiquette in that country.

When going out to eat at a sit-down restaurant, there is an expectation among fast-paced countries (such as the US and Japan) that the concept behind the exchange is purely economical: "I give you money, you give me food."

In Italy, restaurateurs think of their business as more personal than that: "You enter my place, and I will give you what I have to offer - a wonderful meal, a place to sit and relax, time to enjoy the meal; in exchange for this wonderful experience you will pay me what you can and what we agree is fair so that I can continue to offer this wonderful service." The exchange becomes a lot more subjective.

What this *does* mean in purely economical terms is that about half of all restaurants do not even bother with pricing their items, because they never think "X oz. chicken + Y oz. sauce + profit margin equals Z." What they offer you is somewhere between how they value themselves, how they value your return (as a tourist, this means you probably won't be back next week), how they value your company (because Italians like to chat); and finally, what they perceive to be what you can afford or are willing to spend.

And it's Italy, so what they offer is typically up for negotiation (throughout the meal), so they're aiming high anyway. If you're *really* on a budget, go where the prices are posted. If you don't care, go and haggle a bit for the respect, but if you don't they figure you're either very rich or a sucker - and either way they make enough money to charge the better haggler very little.

I don't think Italian restaurant owners should get a bad rap for it because they're not changing their local customs to suit visitors.

It's different, it's exciting, it's fun and it's tasty.

The point of travel is to experience a different culture.

In many, many trips to Italy, I have never eaten at any restaurant where the prices were up for negotiation. I've eaten at places where fish and shellfish were priced by the etto and had to make that calculation, but simple math suffices for that. Otherwise, all prices are posted and you know what you're going to pay for what you order.

I don't even know where to begin with marge, except to say unless those prices were for a group of 10 her claim is so ludicrous I can't believe she posted it.

Bullshit.

This is a rip-off restaurant pure and simple.

No one has even heard of it; It certainly is not a top restaurant in Rome.

Some of you aren't very bright.

Thin

Thank you StCirq, I have never been to a restaurant in Italy where the prices were up for negotiation either. And I have often gone to restaurants with my Italian friends in Italy. If one doesn't look at the menu posted in the window one is given a menu and the prices are posted. If a "special of the day" all one has to do is ask. The mistake my Rome born and bred dear son-in-law didn't do in a residential area of Rome where his family had eaten for decades. The woman who had owned the restaurant introduced him to the new owner who strongly suggested some meat dish that was not on the menu. A shock as I posted earlier regarding the cost. My son-in-law didn't ask as he was exhausted as his father was on his death bed and the heat and humidity had almost caused my son-in-law and daughter to pass out. So a nice time in a well known restaurant in an area where tourist are never seen did turn into quite a financial trauma, sadly.

Agree - I have been to italy more than 20 times and have never seen a restaurants where the price of food is negotiable. Almost every place has a menu posted outside and if they don't you can ask to see one before you go in. I know that certain items are priced by weight rather than by dish - but I have always seen them indicated as such.

And these meals were in all types of places, from sandwich shops to cafes to tavola caldas to trattorias to world reknowned restaurants.

It is true that in many restaurants - esp family restaurants - you will be offered specials - often with a story attached. At once place we were advised to have the special strawberries "from Uncle Guido" - well I don;t know where he grew them, but they were minute and the best, sweetest strawberries I have ever had. And the price was a tiny bit more than most of the desserts listed - a $ or 2 - but was definitely worth it. (They were the absolute antithesis of the gigantic mutant strawberries we get here that are white almost all the way through and have no taste whatsoever.)

And at the same restaurant the wine - by the carafe - were from the vinyard of cousin somebody - and was also excellent - the most you could expect from a basic table wine - at a very modest price.

However, if you're a true foodie - do plan on at least one or two special meals. The meals in casuale places we always found very good (except in Venice) but the couple of special meals we had were very much more so. And definitely less than you would have paid for the same meal in New York (but I'm sure much more than in a small town).

And we've paid $250 or more for dinner (never lunch - we just eat wherever we happen to be) at several special restaurants. But we were doing so for s special experience and knew what the price would be in advance (and again, certainly no more than the equivalent in NYC.) there's no need to eat every meal at such a place. In fact, I can;t imagine how anyone could ever eat meals like that every day - never mind twice daily.

Sorry, meant to write that those of you blaming the Japanese tourists aren't very bright.

You don't see the Mayor of Rome calling for the closure of La Pergola or La Terrazza or Camponeschi or Mirabelle or the Hassler.

Thin

Thanks Cries. I mean, what is all of this nonsense about differing Italian customs? If it were as simple as a cultural misunderstanding, then the Italian police wouldn't be investigating this restaurant for fraud! The mayor of Rome has stated that this restaurant should not be allowed to re-open.

With the exception of the owner of this restaurant, everyone involved seems to think that this place is little more than a con game masquerading as a restaurant. There are plenty of places in Italy (and plenty of other places) that seek to make their trade ripping off tourists. This place happens to be one of them. There isn't much to it beyond that.

What happened at Il Passetto is only one of the many and many facts happening in Italy in this season and not only against foreign tourists but also to Italian tourists.
And, in my opinion, it is the fall-out of a bad common feeling belonging to most of the people involved on tourism, here in Italy.
There is a decrease of tourism in Italy and the owners of the restaurants rather than think about it and try to solve it upgrading their quality and, first of all, the rate price/quality, of their offering, they have the ashaming and bad behaviors as Il Passetto had to the Japanese couple.
It is not this period, this year I mean, a good period to visit Italy because the bad economy is enabling this Country to become a Country to avoid to visit it, for now.
Sad but true.

Vincenzo

Ciao Vincenzo, I am sorry. I have even had dear Italian friends in Italy say what you have posted. It makes me sad. I love your Italy as I think you know but sadly I have heard stories from people travelling around Italy that have had problems, even Italians that have taken trips in your beautiful country. Most of my Italian friends just prefer to now stay home or to rent a small house in the Dolomiti for example and cook their dinners at home instead of going to restaurants a lot. I pray that the economy will get better and life again will be more pleasant for everyone.