Jacket in Europe
 

The last time we were in Italy we stayed at a hotel with 1/2 pension and I wore a nice sweater with slacks ( not jeans) and dress shoes BUT we were relegated to a table near the kitchen. Most or all of the guys in the restaurant wore jackets. We are about to go to Spain on a 16 day trip and I HATE wearing jackets but you know what my wife says! so....what do you think at this time when things are more casual?? MUST I take a jacket this time? The Italy experience was 4 years ago. Terry

So, why do you HATE wearing a jacket?

Just one - that fits nicely (so as to be comfortable) and goes with a variety of slacks could not be handier to have along. It's great for the pockets, as an extra layer, and renders you, well, more gentlemanly and presentable (and appealing to your wife, I would say...). If your wife would prefer you wear a jacket, you should pay attention. I know my husband is much luckier (in many ways...) dressed in a jacket for dinner.

For our trip to France in May my husband bought a jacket at Norm Thompson, (catalog or web) which was great for all the reasons TravelVA mentioned. Brooks Brothers it is not, but it served the purpose and gave him a more "put together" look when we went out for dinner. It says to machine wash and not to dry clean; it would probably melt if sent to cleaners! :-)

I'm female, but I can't imagine having to wear a jacket when it is 100F., as is likely in Spain right now. I suppose you could take one along and wear it until you are seated.

Hi WillTravel, if it is to hot for a jacket it is to hot for a sweater, right? Just throwing that in for a thought. LOL. How are you btw?

No st2327, occassionally there is a thread that revolves around the same subject that your thread does.

And the posts will go on for days and days. If you do a search here on Fodors I am sure you can find some.

I sometimes have thought the "take a jacket" versus "no need to take a jacket" brings up more arguments than the subject of cigarette smoking does.

I am never again going to post my thoughts about this subject (I hope I remember this statement of mine, LOL) but I am going to watch and see what responses you get.

Whatever you decide I hope the two of you have a wonderful time in Spain.

My husband bought a lightweight silk/cotton jacket that works just fine in hot climates. Keep in mind that in Spain you will be dining very late in the evening when things have cooled off a bit.

Take a lightweight jacket and go with the flow! You might or might not need it, but a really lightweight one won't eat up much luggage space and might satisfy you wife's and restaurants' criteria. How bad can it be, really?

And adding to the chorus to take a jacket...

The Spanish DO like to dress up in the evenings (and eat very late, by the way, so make sure you have a siesta every day. By late I mean the restaurants don't OPEN til at least 9.30pm).

If it really is scorching when you're there and you still want to fit in, then wear a long sleeved cotton dress shirt (the kind you would wear with a suit and tie) - not a polo shirt. You're going to dinner, not playing golf.

Yes, the Spanish are quite insular and conservative. Very intolerant of other peoples's customs, lifestyles, dress, etc. If they see someone on vacation not wearing a jacket or wearing a polo shirt when eating their food, they will obsess over it for weeks. Many will go into deep depression, to the point of committing suicide.

The most common topic of discussion among the Spanish is "How many tourists did you see with polo shirts or without jackets at dinner today?"

Rufus, I think you're missing the point. If the OP (or his wife!) wasn't bothered, then he wouldn't be asking the question. Of course you can wear what you like in Spain, but 'if' you want to fit in, then that's how the Spanish would dress for a nice dinner.

It's not the law, it's just a question of 'when in Rome...'

What my husband usually takes is a light linen suit which he wears with a plain t shirt, and that fits in anywhere. Easy to wear, t shirts easy to iron. If we're somewhere so casual a jacket would look odd, he just doesn't wear the jacket.

What concerns me, though, is why you think it's a good idea to eat in the hotel every night - unless it's a remote hotel where you can't go anywhere else ? Wouldn't it be more fun to go out and try a range of places ?

TravelVA - your last set of brackets made me smile :-)

>- not a polo shirt. You're going to dinner, not playing golf.<

This was a bit of a gratuitous slam.

It was a JOKE!

sheesh

Most jokes are gratuituous slams. Especially ones involving taking the piss out of someone.

RTF's post was a joke too. Did you miss the sarcasm?

In the summer a jacket isn't so necessary, but I feel that it always finishes any outfit nicely.

One can turn a super fine cotton t-shirt and skinny jeans from being rock casual to rock dressy for the evening just by adding a suitable jacket. Brass buttoned blazers are naff, don't even go there!

As for polos - the ones that are made of super fine satinesque cotton, by Dior, Dries Van Noten (particularly those two) look fabulous with skinny cut jeans/trousers and a smart jacket over the top. For summer 2006, even the eveningwear has been replaced by a more casual look. Dries van Noten has a dress (and this is an English "dress" as in evening wear) shirt made of soft unstarched cottong with frills and it's sent down the runway with rolled up sleeves. This is the designer answer to a "tuxedo t-shirt".

If you don't like wearing a jacket just wear a shirt and smart trousers, but it is a rather boring look. Adding a super skinny tie could be quite fun.

Do you have a large polo shirt collection by any chance obxgirl?

Kate, LOL !

Please, leave the jacket at home!!! ((y))

I have an extensive collection of polo shirts and wear them for both golf and evening dining in France, Germany, Belgium, Spain, Portugal, the Netherlands, etc. And when it's in the 80's and 90's, ((#)) I wear shorts!!! ((h))

You don't need a jacket unless you plan on dining in "exclusive" restaurants.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. ((a)) ((b))

Ok I am going to have to agree with Budman here. If we are going to a "nicer" place in the evenings my other half will wear a dress shirt in hot weather. Unless you are visiting a Michelin star restaurant I do not think this is necessary. Its like saying a woman must wear a dress out to a restaurant every night. I can go out smartly dressed wearing trousers and be dressed up. I felt Spain was a lot more casual anyway than some other countries. If he is worried just bring a light jacket.

I think people have an idea that people dress up more in Europe but I think when I lived in NY we dressed up more to go out. Just an observation.

Ever since the evening in Paris when I seated next to a man wearing a only a tank style undershirt, trousers, and sandals I ceased to worry as long as I was more properly dressed. After sitting in the second most expensive seats at the Opera Bastille next to a man in a black T-shirt, I haven't worried as long as I was legal for the streets.

I have been told by an Italian that Italian men wear jackets because their shirts don't have pockets. They need some place to carry personal items.

Actually, one of my husband's reasons for nearly always wearing a jacket (whether smart or scruffy) is that it is his equivalent of a handbag :-) Otherwise where do you put your wallet, phone, etc ?

You're quite right about a jacket being akin to the handbag. I always carry one even in high summer, where else can you put a wallet, phone, cigarettes/lighter, and other items if you don't want obscene bulges in your jeans/trousers?

Hi ST,

The board divides into 3 groups on this question:

A small, civilized group that insists that gentlemen wear jackets when dining in public,

A small, noisy set of barbarians who think that anything goes as long as one is comfortable,

A very large majority who don't care.

((I))

LOL -- How funny. Let me stereotype a little:

<i>A small, civilized group that insists that gentlemen wear jackets when dining in public,</i>

Translates into the &quot;Neiman Marcus and/or over 70&quot; Group. ((a)) ((b))

Ira's logic is uncharacteristically sloppy.

There can be only two groups: those who think a jacket is required and those who don't. Those who don't care fall into the second group. They may not waste energy articulating their position, but they are not in a third group.

And the simple truth is, those who think a jacket is required are simply wrong, unless they're planning on eating at a tiny number of pretentious places. Dress codes are virtually non-existent in Spain or Italy.

Now many men (and maybe even more of their womenfolk) may feel uncomfortable at tonier places without a jacket. Such people actually misunderstand Spain and Italy: what most most Spaniards and Italians want to see are smartly-dressed fellow diners, and don't have a fetish about jackets - and are no more offended by the smart jacketless than they are by men in smart Arab dress or shalwar khameez.

Other people believe they'll get worse treated. That's absolutely not my experience: slobs in a jacket get worse treatment than polite people, speaking the language, in smart shirts and clean chinos.

Many Spanish and Italian waitstaff can indeed be snobbish. But it's the lout they snub over the gentleman. And that's about smartness and manners, not uniform.

And by definition, of course, no gentleman takes his mobile phone into a restaurant at dinner time.

I was concerned about this with my boyfriend as we will be going to Spain in September and he simply doesn't own a suit or sports jacket. I asked around from people who actually live in Spain (what a novelty, eh??), and asked if he were to dress in nice slacks and nice shirt if this would be acceptable. (We do not normally do 5* restaurants, so that is not a problem) I was assured a lack of jacket and tie for that matter would not be a problem in Madrid or anywhere else in Spain.

Take the jacket if it makes the wife happy or you may not be getting any for 16 days. But don't worry about actually wearing it.

I'm with Budman on this one, but I'm not sure if that makes me a barbarian or simply one of the majority. Not that I really care.

Oh, I guess that puts me in the majority...

<i>Take the jacket if it makes the wife happy or you may not be getting any for 16 days.</i>

Now, there's something st2327 might be worried about -- making the wife happy, that is. ((a)) ((b))

So, MKingdom, what is it exactly that you always carry ? A jacket or a handbag ?

Sometimes I wear a jacket and sometimes not - whatever I feel is appropriate and comfortable at the time - but whether I'm wearing one or not, theres nothing I can do about the bulge in my trousers ! ;)

not to beat a dead horse...but, i too am planning a trip to italy...my wife and i are 26...and plan on packing light...she does not care if i wear one or not...but i do not want to seem rude/un-kept...

to jacket or not to jacket...that is the question

and if i may, jeans to dinner or chinos only?

Hi adam,

&gt;to jacket or not to jacket...that is the question

and if i may, jeans to dinner or chinos only?&lt;

Choose your restaurant to match the clothing you plan on wearing.

For myself, I think jeans are too heavy and bulky for travel.

((I))

Don't take the jacket. If you opt for restaurants where you might feel more comfortable in a jacket, then buy one in Italy! It will be more stylish than the jacket you would have brought from home and you have a snazzy souvenir to take back with you.
If you must take a jacket from home, take the most fashionable one you can afford--check the sales for something by Zegna, for example. Make sure it's a jacket that looks good WITHOUT a tie...i.e., wear a really nice shirt (open *one* button) but no tie. In the big cities, I see lots of men wearing well cut jackets, well tailored shirts, but no tie. According to my colleagues in Milan, wearing a tie with a jacket these days for dinner (except for business functions) is viewed as provincial or something only older men do. I don't understand the logic, but that's what they tell me. And that's what the Italian men I work with tend to do...and believe me, they cut a serious bella figura.

As for gentlemen not taking phones in restaurants, such nonsense. My husband always carries his phone, sets it to vibrate, and if it's an urgent call from the office or a client, he goes outside to call them back briefly. Most of the Italians I work with are doctors and they always have their mobiles with them.
Blethering on your mobile in a restaurant is rude; merely keeping your mobile with you is not.

There are probably several groups. Like those who dress appropriately for place and occasion. I don't normally take a jacket unless I know I'll be going someplace where it is expected--that would be rare for me, but it does happen. 9 trips out of 10, I don't take a jacket.

Thanks to everyone who contributed their comments ...and also to those who were just having fun! Looks like I should flip a coin.
One wrinkle ( no pun intended) I suddenly remembered is our intent to visit casinos and the last time we were in Monte Carlo or Salzburg I had to &quot; borrow a jacket and tie&quot; before I was allowed to &quot;donate' at the roulette tables. Has there been a change in these rules? Again that was a few years ago.

Budman : &quot;Neiman Marcus and/or over 70&quot; - I have absolutely no idea what this means ! I am not however over 70.

ira &amp; flanneruk : *nobody* here has &quot;insisted&quot; that a jacket should be worn or said it is *required* : it's just that some people think it's nicer to wear one unless it would be out of place.