Itinerary Help: London, Paris, Italy
 

Hi everyone,

I have been bouncing around about our family's (2 adults, 2 teens, and 1 tween) big trip to Europe (trip has been refined thanks to comments in other post).

We've settled on Italy (Rome & Venice), Paris, and London.

Why am I posting here?
I'd like to post our proposed itinerary (after cutting some stops and even countries) to get suggestions, primarily on how to "bundle" our must do sights. Never having been there, it's hard to know what "fits" best with what on a certain day (time and distance wise). I know we'll miss some stuff, but this is where we are:

Coming from: Paris
Tour Method: Look to book tours (either with group or private)
Full Days in London: 5-6
Desired To-Do List:
- Buckingham Palace, Big Ben, Abbey Road crosswalk, tower bridge
- Harry Potter Studios
- Harry Potter Tour of Filming Sites
- Cliffs of Dover & Dover Castle
- Undecided: Stonehenge, Bath, Highclere Castle
- Globe Theatre
- Cotswolds
- Also planning on taking in a Major League Baseball game (Cubs vs Cardinals)

Questions:
1) How messy is it to visit HP filming locations @ Oxford?
2) Is there anything that would fit on one of these days (once people suggest bundling) that we shouldn't miss?

Paris: Itinerary Help
 

Hi everyone,

I have been bouncing around about our family's (2 adults, 2 teens, and 1 tween) big trip to Europe (after getting help from patient posters in another post).

We've settled on Italy (Rome & Venice), Paris, and London.

Why am I posting here?
I'd like to post our proposed itinerary (after cutting some stops and even countries) to get suggestions, primarily on how to "bundle" our must do sights. Never having been there, it's hard to know what "fits" best with what on a certain day (time and distance wise). I know we'll miss some stuff, but this is where we are:

Home Base During Stay: Near Disneyland Paris
Tour Method: Look to book tours (either with group or private)
Full Days in Paris: 5-6
Desired To-Do List:
- Mont St Michel & D-Day Sights (plan on getting down to this area for 2 days after visiting central Paris)
- Giverny
- Louvre
-Eiffel Tower
- "Best of" tour?
- Nighttime river cruise

Questions:
1) Suggestions on any other sights we HAVE to see (in you opinions)?
2) Suggestions on a river cruise (Seine?)?

Rome & Venice: Itinerary Help
 

Hi everyone,

I have been bouncing around about our family's (2 adults, 2 teens, and 1 tween) big trip to Europe (I posted in the general forum).

We've settled on Italy (Rome & Venice), Paris, and London.

Why am I posting here?
I'd like to post our proposed itinerary (after cutting some stops and even countries) to get suggestions, primarily on how to "bundle" our must do sights. Never having been there, it's hard to know what "fits" best with what on a certain day (time and distance wise). I know we'll miss some stuff, but this is where we are:

Tour Method: Look to book tours (either with group or private)
Days: 3 in Rome and 3 in Venice
Desired To-Do List in Rome:
- Best of sites in Rome
- Vatican
-Colosseum
- Catacombs (maybe)

Desired to do list in Venice:
- Gondolas
- Day trip to Milan to see Last Supper

Questions:
Suggestions on any other sights we HAVE to see (in you opinions)?

Hi, I am not good on all the specifics in Paris, but Mont Saint Michel and D-Day beaches are not that near Paris. There was a thread on MSM here very recently regarding whether the original poster should take a tour or not, leaving from Paris. You might find that enlightening as it talks about timings and might help you decide where to stay. I also think you are leaving from somewhere even more difficult than Paris (Disneyland Paris), as it's in completely the opposite direction to MSM/beaches. You would probably find it easier to see Paris too if you are staying there, as Disneyland is a way out of the city to the east (Paris as a base for Disneyland, not Disneyland as a base for Paris). This will be important for the evening events you plan (evening cruise for example), as you don't want a huge long train trip after evening events to get back to your hotel. You would have to worry about train timetables and when the trains shut down for the evening

We travelled to MSM from Rennes by car - it was not that far from there. I would certainly consider moving your base for the leg of the trip which is MSM and beaches.

You can do a lot of this on your own, people here excel in advising how to sightsee without recourse to a tour; that is pretty much what we do here.

Lavandula

Yes, we plan to stay in Bayeux one night and then visit MSM the next day. We'll have checked out of our Disneyland Paris-proxemic hotel by that point.

When is this trip?

Are you spending 4 nights in Rome and 4 nights in Venice? If not, you really don't have 3 full days in each city. The train ride between Rome and Venice takes 4 hours not counting time to get to and from the stations, so the transit will take at least half a day.

Private tours can be great, but you should be prepared to give the guide an idea of what your interests and priorities are. Small group tours can be effective at keeping you moving and seeing a lot, albeit not necessarily in great depth and perhaps not including all of your priorities. I'm not the biggest fan of tours, but the few limited, specific tours I've taken have been very worthwhile.

One of the most interesting tours I've done in Rome is of the excavations beneath St. Peter's. This "Scavi tour" must be requested through the Vatican in advance of arrival, preferably several weeks in advance.

The Catacombs would not be as high on my list as many other sights in Rome.

For me, Milan would be too far from Venice for a day trip (just the train ride is 2.5 hours each way) if the primary (only?) purpose is seeing the Last Supper. You must show up 30 minutes before your timed reservation and then are allowed just 15 minutes to view it. But that's where your interests and priorities rule the day. Tickets for the LS are released in blocks of months (currently through Jan. 2023) and can be hard to get in high season summer.

I wouldn't be interested in the gondola ride, mostly because I'm cheap.

It would be easier to follow if your whole trip is in one thread, even though you are asking for advice about different cities,
I would definitely stay in Paris!! Can’t emphasize that enough.
D’Orsay museum is fabulous! The building is also beautiful! This would be a don’t miss if you like Impressionism.
Also highly recommend Versailles. We like to stay a night in the town, spending the afternoon in the gardens and early the next morning tour the chateau. However, it is so close to Paris and so easy to get to, it is an easy day trip.

If I were doing your itinerary, I would probably start in London, take the Eurostar to Paris, fly or take a train through the alps to Venice, train to Rome.
However, because I love starting trips in Venice, I would strongly consider this:
Fly into Venice.
Train to Rome.
Fly to Paris.
Train to London.

Save the Last Supper for another trip. There is plenty of good art in Venice to see. Take the family to see Titian’s Assumption if the Virgin in the Frari, A very important Renaissance painting that has just been unveiled after four years of restoration work.

https://www.savevenice.org/project/a...-of-the-virgin

maybe you should get your kids involved, show them some videos about Venice and Rome and see what they want to do.

i agree with Jean about the Scavi tour, it is amazing, try to do it!

OK -- some initial comments . . .

1) There is no way one could possibly fit in all those sites and far flung locations in 5 or 6 days. That would easily take 10 days or more. And even that would be rushed. You have listed sites from Dover on the south coast to far east London for the Baseball Series, to Oxford, to the Cotswolds, to Bath, to Stonehenge, to Newbury (Highclere), to far NW London (the Harry Potter Studio) plus sites IN London. Even removing the 'optional' destinations, this is not a 5 or 6 days list. Understand that two of your activities (the Studio tour and the Baseball game) will each eat up most of a day. I haven't done baseball in London (lots of cricket though) but I have attended two NFL games at Wembly and I assume the Cubs/Cards game will be similar in that there will be a LOT of peripheral activities -- rallies, a fan fest/village surrounding the stadium, pregame festivities, bands, etc so it will fill several hours. And the WB Studio will take a minimum of 4 or 5 hours when you factor in transport, lunch, etc. So basically those two things alone will eat up two days.

2) You've listed almost no actual sites IN London - Just 'Buckingham Palace, Big Ben, Abbey Road crosswalk, tower bridge' plus the Globe. Buck. Palace and Big Ben are merely 'walk-by's' - unless Charles changes something soon, the Palace is not open to the public in June. And Tower Bridge is a 'look-see' or at most a walk across. You have not listed ANY of the major sites such as The Tower of London, Westminster Abbey, British Museum, V&A, St Paul's, etc etc etc etc

3) And the majority of sites you list wouldn't require any sort of group or private tour.

An absolute must see is the Tower of London, also, IMHO, Westminster Cathedral.

Strongly recommend Hampton Court Palace as the palace to tour, close to London, easy trip.

Are you seeing a play at the Globe or taking a tour or both? We have done both and I would certainly take a tour. If you enjoy Shakespeare, a play is fun, but do get seats. It takes up an afternoon though, so might not be a first choice. There is so much great theater and music in London, we always get cheap tickets as soon as we arrive for most evenings we are there.

Bath is one of the most interesting and lovely cities anywhere. The Roman Baths are amazing, the Abby is gorgeous, the political connections with American history is interesting and the connection to Jane Austen is really interesting. It is not a great day trip, but is great for an overnight and easy to get tours of Stonehenge and the cotswolds from there. Look at Mad Max tours. They are great, cover a lot and include time for lunch and free time for walking in villages. I highly recommend including Bath if possible. There are free walking tours of Bath every morning.

Don’t do a HOHO bus in London, they are horrible, stopping traffic, etc. However, there are late night tours of London by bus that friends have loved. They got food and drinks to carry along. Don’t know the name. They were lead by individuals.
It is easy to go by train to Oxford.

I have read all three of your threads and I am afraid you are being very very (overly) ambitious with what you expect to fit in to a few days in FOUR major cities. Disneyland Paris is not IN Paris -- it is an hour east of the city by train, so it is a great place to base for Disneyland and an awful base for exploring central Paris. Are you planning on 5 or 6 days in Paris (not actually IN Paris but out at DL) plus 2 days for Normandy/Mont St Michel - so 7 or 8 days total??

You need to clarify how long your entire trip is start to finish because it looks like you are not accounting for travel time anywhere. Your arrival and departure days will not 'sightseeing days. Then you lose another day when you move from city to city. It will help if you count in Nights instead of Days. Is it Venice > Rome > Paris > London or some other order?

To cover everything you have listed on all three threads would take more than a month. Plus some are impractical - like a day trip to Milan from Venice, some of the day trips out of London, etc.

Plus you are a group of five which will make almost everything take longer.

soooooo How long is this trip???

Right now, we're looking at around 28 days.
I did not include travel days in my posts, just full sightseeing days.

Milan from Venice was just an idea, and someone suggested doing it as a one night stopover from Venice to Paris.

London First: we can't do that due to an event in London that's only on two specific days.

OK -- that's a start. But 28 days is not nearly enough time for all of the things you've listed on your various threads (now I see you have four topics running.

• The places you mentioned in Austria/Switzerland would take at least 10 days.

• Rome & Venice - you don't mention too many sites but they would still require at least a week between the two.

• The France list - a minimum of 10 days

• And all the things you plan in England from Baseball, to Harry Potter to Dover to London and all the rest - about two weeks.

So you have the framework of a 40-41 day trip -- NOT counting the 6+ days of travel time (Transatlantic X 2, plus all the moving between five countries). Waaaay too much in too little time. Either lengthen the trip - a lot, or cut back to three countries max.

I have mentioned in my last reply/post in this thread, that we have removed several destinations after advice from a previous thread. Now we're just doing London/Paris/and Venice & Rome.

The issue is: I do not have access/the rights to delete my initial thread where I was getting advice on other locations. After sharing those ideas with my family, we eliminated any idea of doing Austria, Switzerland, Germany, or Greece, but I cannot deleted it. I posted in a mod forum to hope that can help.

Additionally, I posted a list of things we'd like to do, in the hopes posters would say things like:
"I know bloggers like to SAY that's a must-do, but it's really not worth the time/effort" OR
"Those aren't as easy to get to as they look, save them for another time or skip them."

Our list isn't written on a stone tablet.

Now I understand - because you did post to the Switzerland yesterday it appeared you were still planning on going there . . .

You can ask the moderators to close that thread --

I already have; just waiting on them to reply.

Yeah, we cut things back big time, I just couldn't find out how to delete it on my own and was stubborn trying to figure it out....I gave up and posted in the mod support forum, so hopefully they'll pull it down soon. :)

Now -- back to the trip you ARE planning . . . Rome, Venice, Paris, Disneyland, Normandy and a boat load of things in southern England -- that is STILL more than 28 days worth.

Normandy and MSM are hanging by the thread like a child's loose tooth.
My wife REALLY wants to see MSM, but I don't know that we'll pull the trigger.

I'm also trying to balance for variety, for example:
My kids enjoy art, but nothing but art museums will make them miserable.
Churches are gorgeous, but 30 of them will make us miserable.

That's why I'm trying to be cautious about reading to many sample itineraries, b/c a lot of that stuff will drain us.

So we're open to advice on someone saying something is overrated or not worth the time investment...and we're okay if different posters disagree.

Can I make a radical suggestion ;) Make your wife happy and include Normandy and Mt Michel.

Then with the set activities in England plus Paris plus DL you could easily fill 4 weeks in JUST France and England and it would simplify everything -- transport and such.

Or you could maybe squeeze in 3 or 4 days in either Venice or Rome but I don't think you'd have time for both cities.

I'll admit, London and England was just a "throw everything up there and see what sticks."
The Potter stuff is for my kids, but I would rather do the tour of filming sites and not the studios, but again...

Stonehenge/Highclere/Bath: This would be the first to get cut for time.

Cotswolds: This would also be easy to cut if needed for time.

To be fair; MSM would be for my wife, Normandy/D-Day sites would be for my two oldest....but getting there and back may take too long and be too pricy. :(

In general, this is hard to do. What is overrated for one person is a must-see for another.

To be honest, MSM is, in my opinion, overrated. To others it is not. And to your wife, it obviously is highly rated - to her. Same with seeing a baseball game in London. While I love baseball, this would not be what I would want to do to spend my precious time on while overseas. But if it is worth it to you/your family - absolutely include it. Disneyland Paris: same thing. It is not like the parks in the US, you *may* be disappointed. But if you are a Disney family, maybe you won't.

My suggestion is that your family come together and discuss your absolutes, your "we can skip that," and your "if we have time" in each city. Then plot out on a calendar (note opening times and closed days) in each city/destination and then you have your baseline itinerary. Make sure you also plot out outlier destinations/sites such as DLand or Versailles- those will eat an entire day, leaving little to no time for other landmarks on those visit days.

Yes, we are Disney fans, and Paris crosses the last country where there's a Disney park off our list, so that's a must. :)

Baseball: Our hometown Chicago Cubs are playing, so we cannot miss that (and they're playing our arch rivals).

Versailles: I couldn't really care less, so this will likely be dropped.

MSM: My wife always said she'd love to see it, but she may not actually care the more we discuss it.

We're looking for people's opinions of their experiences visiting these places to adhere to the motto: "no one knows everything, but everyone knows something."

(Sorry for the Typo in my post -- of course it is Mont Sainte-Michel - not Mt Michel . . .)

Just some random comments -- IMO the Warner Brothers studio tour is amazing and should be included before considering a tour of the film locations. Then in Oxford you can visit Christ Church and see the dining hall, Bodleian Library, New College etc. etc.

There is sooooooo much to see in central London, and with one full day devoted to baseball you would really want a full week just in London.

Then with the other places on your wish list maybe another 6-7 days in England. This would still be rushed but not unreasonable.

The logistics for Normandy and M-S-M are not difficult - you just need to allow at least 3 days.

So again -- JUST France and England would easily fill 28 days.

Best I can suggest at this point is to read trip reports, then. I/we cannot tell you to drop something without knowing you or your interests. Trip reports will tell you what someone really thought of something at that time. Or maybe even peruse Trip Advisor for reviews of landmarks for other candid thoughts.

You've already made hard lines on things I personally would not include. There you go. You have to decide what is worth to YOU and uour family. To some, Eiffel Tower is overrated. If your family really does not want to go up it, don't go. Simple as that. But asking if others think is a waste is still not going to help you if your family wants to see it. I no longer, personally feel going on the tower is necessary and do think (now) it is overrated but I would never tell someone not to go IF they really want to. Do you understand what I am trying to say here?

In my opinion, drop Italy. You do not have the time with all that you want to do in England and France. Snd this is figuring in your must sees of the game and DLand. Include MSM, sure - that is your wife's must-see and apparently your older kids want to see Normandy, so include it.

I have been to every site/destination you have mentioned except for an MLB game (but have attended two NFL games in London so understand the festivities involved) - that includes DL Paris and Normandy. I have been to England many times and lived for about 5 years near the Cotswolds so am pretty intimately familiar with the English bits.

I personally would not cut anything from your England list and would add several more -- the Tower of London, Hampton Court, Theatre/concerts, Westminster Abbey, etc. I'd include a day trip to Oxford for sure. I wouldn't do the Cotswolds unless I was able to fit in at least a 2 nights/2.5 day excursion and had a car.

We are all posting so fast that there are 'cross posts' and it is getting confusing. I'm going to step away for a few hours and let the dust settle :)

I'm hoping the MLB game won't take all day....hoping. :)

Ask the moderators to combine this with your Paris thread.

Ask the moderators to combine this with your Paris thread.

No, the game will be 'normal length' unless they go past 9 innings. BUT if you are going all the way to London to see the Cubs you don't want to be like Dodger fan and show up in the 3rd and leave in the bottom of the 7th ;) They do these transatlantic transplant games up big in London. There is usually a rally - maybe in Trafalgar Square - the day before.

But just on the day -- there is a festival / fan experience sort of village outside the stadium. And lots of festivities pre-gam -- entertainment, both National anthems, maybe a fly over -- plus it is out in east London so all-in-all you'll want to plan around 5 hours door to door from your central London accommodations

. . . OR you can be like a Dodger fan . . . just sayin'

We haven't even started looking at lodging for our family of 5 yet. Blerg.

I told them they could handle it how they wanted and left it up to them.

My original idea was to keep the destinations separate so people could easily only participate in discussions about a destination with which they were familiar.

Ask the moderators to combine all of your threads. You are getting responses on all of them.

This is the Paris itinerary, but now getting advice and questions about London and England. Knowing you must schedule around the game is helpful because that dictates order of countries as well as time in London.

You have asked for personal must sees. I like seeing authentic historical places, eating local food, etc. that cannot be seen or enjoyed at home. Someone once asked what was the point of going to Europe when Las Vegas also had canals, gondolas, etc. I guess my feeling is the opposite. Why see the commercial amusement park stuff when you have an opportunity to see the real thing?

Since London is also being discussed here, I reiterate that Tower of London is a number one sight, followed by Westminster and Hampton Court. The stories these places have to tell are so incredible and real. In the tower, you can just about feel the presence of souls who spent their last days there. A morning walk in Bath and through the Roman Baths is to experience beautiful architecture, history, social mores of a past time, literature, and a design/engineering feat of heating water for the baths that was so unique, it inspires awe. The V&A museum is an all time favorite museum. Kids seem to really enjoy it.
Another thing your kids might really enjoy is actually doing something. Renting a boat and punting on the river in Oxford is a popular student and family activity. You can also rent a long boat in some places and do a canal trip yourself.

I'm pretty sure the Scavi tour has an age limit.

Agree that Milan is too far out of the way for this kind of trip, you'd be better to stop off in Florence on the way to Venice.
My teen/pre-teen kids liked Rome much more than Venice. They actually liked Pompeii/Amalfi Coast more than Venice.
I'd do Venice 1st then head to Rome at the end of day 2, leaving full days for Rome.

Your trip is all big cities, I'd consider doing something out of the city for a day.
E-bike the Appian way (can stop at catacombs), or day trip to Orvieto.
Pompeii is doable as a day trip but will feel rushed.

Instead of the Last Supper day trip, I would take a day trip to Burano (you can add Murano as well, if you like.) If you search for some photos of Burano you'll see what a beautiful place it is. If you are flying out of Milan, you could head to Milan a day early and see the Last Supper and the Milan cathedral (climb to the rooftop for a fun walk through the gothic spires.)
In Venice, visit St. Mark's cathedral and climb to the top to walk outside and view the square. The Doge's Palace is interesting and from there you can walk on the inside of the Bridge of Sighs. I also really liked the Peggy Guggenheim museum.
In Rome, the Vatican Museum is worth seeing, particularly the Sistine Chapel. You can combine this with visiting St. Peter's Basilica.

Yes, just checked and it's 15...my youngest will only be 12. :(

This is a continual struggle with us as well:

We want to live like locals (where do they eat? Relax? etc), but with our kids seeing so many of the "big" stuff in school, they want to do that as well. Hence, a clustered must-see list. :)

My favorite museum in Paris is the Musee de L'Orangerie. It is small and won't take long to see so your kids should be OK. It is a little jewel and has breathtaking Monet paintings. I loved it my first time there when I was only 12.
The Louvre, Musee d'Orsay and Rodin Museum are also favorites but your family will have to decide how many museums they would be happy to visit.

Another "must see" for me in Paris is Sainte Chapelle - the stained glass windows are amazing. Try to reserve in advance so you won't have to stand in a long line.