ITALY - Warning
 

Thought I would post a message concerning some of the problems that I encountered in Italy on my trip a few weeks ago. Some of these problems were me own fault and could have been prevented but the locals had a definite hand in helping. <BR> <BR>VENICE - You will be approached at some time during your visit to the Piazza San Marco by men offering free taxi rides to the Murano Glass Factory on a nearby island. They will inform you that these free rides will only be available for the next hour so don't wait. This is not true, they went on all day (1st clue). They will also tell you that after your trip to the factory, all you have to do is show your pass (given by them) to a taxi driver and he will return you to the Piazza for a mere 2500 L, this would cost normally about 30,000L by taxi and 6,000L by Vaporetta (2nd clue). Again not true, you must pay your way back. As you can already guess we fell for the trick. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't all bad. We got a private ride through the city by taxi and it only cost us for the return trip by Vaporetta. The tour of the factory was good but short at which time we got the hard sell for the more expensive pieces. We did purchase several small items for gifts to bring home but it turned out they were more expensive at the factory than on the mainland. <BR> <BR>Also beware of the restaurants in the Piazza that offer orchestra music at night. I new that sitting down to enjoy the cool night air and music would be reflected in the cost of the meal or desert ordered but I was not prepared to be charged 20000L specifically for listening to the music. <BR> <BR>ROME - As you have probably heard, Termini Station is not a fun place. Upon our arrival to Rome we promptly had a bag stolen while loading into the a taxi. We turned our back on it only for a moment but that was enough. The taxi stand is located right next to the metro stop. whoever grabbed the bag headed straight for the subway. We were also approached by several "unofficial" taxis and quoted prices of 50,000-60,000L for a ride to cental Rome near the Pantheon. (these taxis had the same cars, colors and door decals as the real ones) As it turned out the real cost was only around 18,000L. Also pay attention to the starting price on the meter. It should be only 4500L (some will try to start with 6500L). Make sure the prices are posted on a card in the back seat and notice any supplements that apply such as luggage (should be 2000L). Keep your money in your moneybelt at all times. Most of the major sights are targets for pickpockets. <BR> <BR>We enjoyed most of the things about Italy including the sights, food and shopping but were dismayed at having to watch our backs all of the time when this had not been the case in other countries. <BR>

Thanks Kirby for taking the time to inform us of your specific experiences in Italy. It's too bad that we have to be suspicious of people when we go to Italy - and some of the other countries,too. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to just take in everything around you instead of continually having to look over your shoulder. Thanks again.

Thanks for your cautionary note. You may have just saved somebody's vacation by posting these words of warning. Thanks again.

Thanks - it was valuable information. <BR> <BR>Most tourist destinations have a complex and varied infrastructure specializing in separating the tourist from his/her money. Venice is no exception. But what I most rememeber is how much my wife and I loved the vaporetti, how well we were treated, and how many people went out of their way to help when we got lost while exploring the city after dinner. <BR> <BR>As the saying goes: "When in Rome (or Venice, or ...), use caution and common sense." <BR> <BR>Being from the Chicago area, there is an additional warning I'd like to offer: Don't even think of ordering their pizza! <BR> <BR>

I'm sorry to disagree, but I think all of you are either naive or have never been to a big city. I or close acquaintances have have had pockets picked or purses snatched in New York, O'Hare airport Chicago, and Gatwick aitport London. My experience in Italy is that it is no worse than anywhere else.

Derek, Kirby doesn't sound naive to me at all. Its certainly true that petty crime exists in all big cities. However, I've looked over the State Departments travel advisories for various European cities and the ONLY one where they make special notice of scams and petty crimes is in the advisory for Italy. So if all of us are naive, I guess the US State Department is too.

I certainly don't feel naive only taken advantage of. My wife and I were simply trying to enjoy our vacation and experienced some difficulty. It seemed to us that we encountered more people in Italy that tried to squeeze just a little more out of normal transaction than we did in other countries. I'm not trying to badmouth Italy or its people, I'm only relaying my experience to this forum in hopes that it may help other travelers. <BR>

Derek: Also sorry to disagree but you and your close acquaintances have had your pockets picked and purses snatched in the US and UK. And you think "all of us are either naive or have never been to a big city"??? There also *must* be a reason that the US State Dept., guidebooks, web sites, and posters (myself included) on this forum and others mention the pickpocket problem in Italy. Regards, Walter <BR>

Thank you all for your tips. I am leaving July 24-Aug.7 yo Europe for 2 weeks and I am going to Italy,Austria,Swiss.and Germany. This will help me out alot. I will let you know about my trip when I get back. <BR> Dee Dee

Pockets picked and purses snatched in the US and the UK, HMMMMMMM, who's the naive one here?

My husband is from Italy, Tuscany, and even he can't believe what has happened in his country. I'm from NYC, so I'm no stranger to petty crime, but Italy can be bad. Every trip I've been on something has happened to someone I know. Yes, you do need street smarts, but there is also an underlying atmosphere of deceit at times. Unfortunately you cannot trust anyone, and you must CONSTANTLY watch your personal belongings and person. It is terribly unfortunate for a country so rich in history and beauty.

My husband and I spent 3 glorious weeks in Italy in the Summer of '97. We were also in Venice, took the trip to the Murano glass factory, haggled for our pieces of glass (much like one does in the Caribbean or Mexico), took the ferry back for the cost of two dollars american (about a two hour ride which allowed us to get a real feeling for Venice and the outlieing "islands") We stopped in Burano and had squid-ink pasta which I am still craving 2 years later. We took trains between Venice - Florance and Rome. We had no problems, although we did see one lady get her purse snatched outside the Vatican, But the amount of people who immediately ran to get police, ran after the guy who snatched the purse (who was on a moped), knocked him down, and then proceeded to hold him until the authorities arrived was encouraging. We took the subway in Rome out to Oustia Antica, again no problems. We are in our early 30's and I have very long blonde hair so we were not mistaken for Italians, however several people thought we were french so... if you know a foreign language use it, try to dress in a manner that does not call attention to yourself. I found the Bahamas and Hawaii to be much more aggressive than Italy. P.S. We live in L.A. and we have never had ANY problems with pickpockets, purse snatching, muggings etc. Just be aware.

just back from tuscany area and florence and venice with 15 family members children included saw no evidence of crime quite the contrary every was so very nice and friendly not like in nyc or people in america in general

On my recent trip to Italy we felt safer than in most European countries and American cities. the key is to be aware ofwhat is going on around you especially in crowded tourist locations and transportation hubs. Why doesn't the state department offer the same advise about petty crimes American cities? Certainly people are confronted with more violent crimes in Los Angeles, New York, Miami and other big cities. I bet you would be surprised what European and Asian governments say about your hometowns..... <BR> <BR>P.S. Whe someone approachs you with an offer you cannot refuse, refuse it. Nothing is free.

Sorry to have stirred up so many negative feelings about various cities around the world. We have all had different experiences (some good and some bad) during our travels and ours just happened to be in Rome. I live in Houston which is not small by any means but not near as large as Rome . I'm sure there are some of you that could expand on bad experiences that occured in Houston but that is not the point of my posting. I only wished to help other travelers when approached with the same situations, whether or not they be in Rome, NYC or Houston. <BR>

I can't agree more with Kirby. Exactly the same things that happened to him happened to us. To top it off, I was walking in broad daylight on a busy street in Florence and I was accosted by a team of thieves. A woman manhandled me while a small child attempted to grab my wallet from my front pocket. You can see the difference in attitude in locals who grasp their handbags closely compared with say Geneva, Switzerland where everyone is causally walking about looking like they don't have a care in the world. We were warned by everyone, including tour guides, taxi drivers, etc. to be on the alert for the ever present thieves of one kind or another. <BR>Having said all this, the fact is you will not see the Sistine Ceiling in Geneva. And I don't want to exaggerate. The fact is, there were many acts of kindness extended to us in Italy.

There is a consistency in the above postings. Those who have been to Italy recently are dismayed by the level of dishonesty and petty crime. Those who have never been there take a more conceptual view, such as crime is bad everywhere, or it’s really the victim’s fault. <BR>Having recently spent two weeks in Italy and having spent a good deal of time in other Western European countries, there really is a difference. Those who serve the tourist trade are there to make a living. But the level of larcenous conduct in Italy is exceptional. <BR>Italy is a great place. However, what kind of a vacation will you have when you are constantly irritated by solicitations for such things as taxi rides that cost five times the legitimate rate, and being reminded by well meaning people of the dangers lurking everywhere? When I was accosted in Italy, thankfully, my mother was not with us. We did not tell her about the incident because she is by nature cautious. Her entire vacation would have been profoundly marred by the incident. My fourteen year old daughter was with us and I am sure she will remember it for a very long time. <BR>Just think of Shirley's experience. She puts a positive spin on witnessing a rather serious crime. What do you think the chances are of witnessing such an incident in Switzerland? <BR> <BR>

I was going to stay out of this, but am giving in after reading the claim that people who have been to Italy agree that it's rife with thieves and people who haven't are inclined to point out that crime is everywhere. I've been to Italy twice recently. Both times before I left, people issued warnings about crime, etc. Nothing happened to us, and I didn't see anything happen to anyone else, although I was on the lookout. I am not saying that any of our perspectives represent some sort of overarching truth or paranoid fallacy, but if you are a tourist, hanging out in heavily touristed places and accepting offers to do very touristy things from total stangers, you are an easy mark (although that doesn't mean you deserve to have bad things happen to you, or that that's the only reason people are preyed upon). <BR>When something bad happens that confirms people's stereotypes, there is a tendency to view it as statistically valid evidence. When something bad happens and most people wouldn't expect it, it's seen as a fluke. "There must be a reason" the State Department issues warnings about Italy and not other countries in Europe. I'm sure there is a reason. How can you be sure it's a good one? (And no, "Because I agree with it" doesn't count.)

Boy, are we a defensive bunch. I have been to Italy numerous times, my husband is from Italy. When people on the post offer advise concerning this issue, it is intended for caution. Just because you have not been assaulted, just because you have not been ripped off either by shady or underhanded dealings, unscrupulous characters or physically acosted and ripped off, does not mean that it is not happening. Believe me, it may not happen this trip or the next but it will happen. Most people do use caution when traveling either in this country or abroad, but you really have to exercise a bit more than caution when traveling in Italy. You must remain alert to your surroundings at all times. Italy is an incredible place and the Italian people are a warm, generous bunch. Don't let a few rotten apples ruin your trip, but please be aware of what is going on. Do not let your guard down. It is unfortunate that this is the situation, but to deny that it, is just plain foolish. Just because it hasn't happened to you, does not mean that it hasn't happened to many other people.

The State Department issues warnings after a great deal of political caution. Remember, Western European countries are our allies; to insult them with a false warning, advisory, etc. is certainly against protocol. They've issued an advisory against Italy for petty crimes, scams, etc. They didn't do this lightly. The warnings are for large cities' tourist sites, trains, and on the road. If Italy issues the same warning for NYC Time Square, Florida highway rest stops and telephone solicitors; I won't be offended and neither will the State Department. <BR>Forewarned is forearmed; in Milan, we were accosted by potential thieves (the newspaper stuck in front of our faces by one woman while another attempted to rob us), but we were prepared with purses inside our coats and a firm grip on our cameras. Other than an annoyance (and an adrenaline rush), it was nothing. If we HADN'T been prepared, it would have been disaster. If you're driving through Florida, and make sure you stop at the well-lit, heavily-travelled Stuckey Plaza, no problem and you'll report back to your friends "I don't know what the big deal is". If you pull into a deserted state-sponsored rest stop... Kirby pointed out that he took some responsibility for being a dufus (hey when haven't any one of us been that?) and just gave a heads-up so anyone visiting Italy can avoid problems. Note he didn't say "don't go to ITALY!!"...anyway, none of us would pay any attention to that if he did. <BR> <BR>And here's a warning for anyone coming to the U.S.: there are con games where you're asked to put your money down on a table, and guess which number will be picked. Oh wait, that's all of Las Vegas...where I, personally, have many MANY MMMMAAAANNNYY times, fallen for this very ruse.

Elvira, those State Department warnings caution that you may be getting lured into a scam if people offer you food or a drink. Remember that the next time you're in Vegas. <BR>There is currently no Travel Warning for Italy on the State Dept. Web site. The Consular Information Sheet for Italy does warn about scams, pickpockets, etc., but so do those for several other countries in Western Europe. Believe this is counter to what other people have claimed. In most cases, those advisories note that the problems arise in particular areas that are thick with tourists. Also, at least one info sheet uses the word "urchin," which may be the only place the word appears in any gov't Web site. Pity. <BR>I would like to try to convey again (since I failed pretty miserably before) that I am not urging people to stroll blithely along without a care or a worry. I am saying that you have to be careful anywhere, especially in crowded areas and especially especially around tourist attractions, in whatever country. <BR>Random curiosity: What's the most appalling place you've been robbed? I'm thinking about the Vatican, Holocaust sites, etc. <BR>

MarthaP: <BR> <BR>Well, I KNEW those cocktail waitresses were up to no good...devious little wenches. <BR> <BR>knock on wood, thank my lucky stars, thankyajayzuss...never been robbed while traveling. once, had my paris par arrondissement picked out of my pocket, but then again, I once left my camera case on the subway (I had the camera, thank heavens). see my previous post re dufus....

In Italy 12 times, hassled by gypsies but managed to get rid of them by screaming (Venice and Florence). Manhandled on a bus in Rome, followed in Milan, but robbed in PRAGUE IN THE POST OFFICE. Not very glamourous....eyes off camera perhaps 6 seconds while reaching for change. Should never have had the camera off my shoulder, my fault. <BR> <BR>Eyes open and homework. Paying attention to what other's have experienced is good advice. We became seasoned travelers by traveling! <BR> <BR>Speaking of it could happen anywhere, my hotel room was burglarized in VANCOUVER of all places. All of this happens anywhere and everywhere. <BR>

Our flight tickets were "pursed picked" out of my wife's purse in the New York Hilton & Towers Elevator. Then at the airport, while trying to get tickets re-issued, the waist pack was stolen.

We have some understanding and rugged folks out there. You should expect to be cheated when standing in a crowd of tourists (where else would you expect tourists to be standing?). Getting mugged is no big deal as long as they don't get your money. <BR>Well, listen. Mugging is a big deal. You can sustain lasting physical and psychological harm. <BR>And what is this about being vigilant. How in the world are you going to constantly watch your back. And even if you could, is that any way to vacation?

Since everyone's experiences are different I doubt that anyone's testimonial of a good or bad experience is very instructive. That being said, however, I appreciate the original WARNING post. After all, information is a positive, and it is up to the reader to do with it what he or she wants. On a recent trip to Italy (bear with my testimonial until I get to the point) I left my camera on the train from Rome to the airport. I was able to go back for it about 15 minutes later with the train full of people ready to leave the station when I found it laying on the seat where it had been left. I guess I can chalk it up to luck that it was still there but it is just one "positive story" that offsets a "negative" one. Meanwhile, later on in our trip, we were accosted by a "mad man" in covent garden in London while we were sitting having tea. <BR>These stories are representative of nothing more than personal experiences that can happen anywhere. <BR>The example of free taxi rides to Murano should have set off a bell that there was going to be a hard sell attached. It is no different than a life insurance agent offering to deliver a free world atlas to you in your home...it is so obvious that it cannot be called a scam! <BR>

I'm Italian, and I live in Milano: I was a bit amused reading this message thread, but definitely I wasn't offended: it's true, here in Italy we have a lot of "too clever" people always trying to deceive or rob tourists. As I'm concerned, I've never been pickpocketed, (knock wood...) but I've been raised here and my mom fed me street-wiseness with her milk. I use daily the subway and buses, but my purse is never out of my sight. <BR>I have only one suggestion, valid everywhere: don't look like a tourist. Don't go around clutching a map (study it before leaving your hotel room); try to look at ease; keep your valuables in a safe place and your camera out of people's sight (unless you want to shoot a pickpocet at work, you'll have plenty of time to draw it...); avoid crowded places (if you can; and if you can't, be wary of what's happening around). <BR>I travel a lot, both for business and pleasure, in Italy and abroad (included USA), quite often on my own, and behaving this way everything went OK. Try to communicate with italian people (a few of us DO speak english!), you'll get plenty of information and some help, if needed. <BR>And don't be too scared, the most of us are good guys...

RE: being vigilant to avoid street crime <BR>someone wrote 'who would want to travel that way, anyway?' Well, I, for one. My WEbster's defines vigilant as being 'alertly watchful, esp. for danger.' One of the reasons I travel is to get my mind out of the routine (rut) of daily existence. I savor the heightened awareness demanded by unfamiliar surroundings; I feel as if I am more alive when I am forced to pay better attention to the details. You don't have to agree with that, but in my mind, having a 'heightened awareness' level is not so far removed from being 'alertly watchful.' (Consider being extra attentive to: traffic that might run over you, for the byway you need to take, architectural details mentioned in a guidebook, for clues about the weather when one can't escape it in one's private automobile, for clean public restrooms, for delicious scents wafting out of promising restaurants.) Half the reason I've never had my pocket picked in HOuston is that I've been on a downtown sidewalk probably ONCE. I've not had my pocket picked in NYC but I did have someone stick his hand UP my shorts when I was 17. Eighteen years later I can still feel it. (I'd rather have had my pocket picked.) When I was in Rome in June, we were standing on a corner on the Via Condotti, and the man in front of me reached into a woman's bag ahead of him and lifted out her wallet. I grabbed his forearm and said, "No." He looked at me and let go. I approached the woman after we crossed the street, and she was a LOCAL. If criminals 'hit' tourists more often, maybe it's because said tourists are less vigilant than the locals. In my recent experience, the reverse was true. I was hypervigilant, if anything, and this Roman lady was too lax. Every guide I've consulted about Rome mentions street crime. Forewarned IS forearmed, and frankly I'm surprised that anyone would be surprised by the existence of street crime in Italy. (Maybe the difference between Italy and other European countries has something to do with relative 'personal comfort zones.' Italians are close-talkers, walkers, live-rs, to borrow from Seinfeld. Americans are not, nor in my experience are northern Europeans.) My bro-in-law, a police officer, asked about the crime after our recent trip. I responded, 'the street crime is probably worse, (relatively) minor property crimes. However, the biggest headline in the papers during our visit was a murder. HOw often does a murder make the national news here? That tells me a lot about the relative level of crime in Italy vs. the US.' (i.e. that the US is worse off.) He agreed.

I just got back from Italy as well and nothing too exciting happened to me (crime-wise). I did have a group of gypsies approach, but a firm yell shrunk them back. I also saw a guy chasing another guy who took his wallet in San Lorenzo (Florence), but many people helped him tackle the thief down. Also saw another person who got pickpocketed but held on to one of the gypsy girls who did it and took her to the police in Rome. Overall, not worse or better then what I expected. <BR> <BR>One advice I would recommend is that do not carry your wallet at all. There is really no reason to carry your wallet other than traveling from one city to another. When there is a safe or safety deposit box in every hotel, why risk carrying a big, fat, wallet that is irresistable to pickpocketers? <BR> <BR>Just carry enough cash to get by for the day and may be one credit/ATM card. Then, even if you get pickpocketed, all you've lost is 20 or 30 bucks and a credit card that you have to replace (a whole lot better proposition than replacing your entire wallet). And thieves won't bother you since they won't see anything bulging out of your pockets. <BR> <BR>Just be aware and prepared and you will have a fabulous time.

I love Pams posting, "I savor the heightened awareness demanded by unfamiliar surroundings; I feel as if I am more alive when I am forced to pay better attention to the details" Is she putting us on or what? Maybe she should try prison sometime. She really could use her "heightened awareness demanded by unfamiliar surroundings" to ward off who knows what. She would get something far more exciting than a hand up her shorts, I'm sure. <BR>Then there's superwoman, Pam, grabbing a pickpocket's arm -- gee I thought she was going to say she wrestled him to the ground. <BR>Then the guy who claims he didn't experience anything "crimewise" and proceed to tell us about witnessing several serious crimes in a week. <BR>Someone counseling us to stay out of crowd when vacation. <BR>It's getting deep around here.

sorry folks, but I can't hold my tongue. I was in Italy a month ago. visited several cities. Now i grow up on the mean streets of the Bronx, NY, so my perception may be skewed. However, it appearred to me that the crime was no worse than it would be here. Yes, street vendors will try to con you. Yes, pickpockets will try to rob you. Yes, you should try not to look like a target. But for pete's sake, if I didn't look like a tourist walking along Lungarno and via Bufalini in Florence with my camera in a fanny pack with a water bottle and a map in my hand, then I don't know who does. I did witness an exchange of stolen goods between 2 pickpockets. A watch. Something small and easily hidden. <BR> <BR>In Rome I walked from the Palatino to via Nazionale to see an exhibit of El Greco. Then I found my way to Trevi. By myxelf, with a map. Yes I was watching everything around me. I even stopped and shopped along the way. But I went out of my way to not be stupid about it. <BR> <BR>All in all, I had less hassle getting around in Italy than I ever had in New York. <BR>

Elenora counsels us not to look like tourists. Well, what does someone look like when they are consulting a map? And how do you watch everything around you when you're map reading? <BR>This whole thing about disguising as a local is ridiculous. It's as silly as the rental car companies removing their license plate frames to disguise their cars.

I was in Italy in April and I was prepared to be a victim of some sort of crime while on my trip. Mostly because of postings on this forum. I was glad for the advice and luckly nothing happened to me or the other people with me. However reading this posting I might have been charged more for a cab ride than it was worth. But I know it was less than I would have paid for the same ride in the states. So what's a few dollars here and there. I am glad for all the advice on this forum because it helps you to be more aware even if you think you are a very careful person.

I was in Italy in April and I was prepared to be a victim of some sort of crime while on my trip. Mostly because of postings on this forum. I was glad for the advice and luckly nothing happened to me or the other people with me. However reading this posting I might have been charged more for a cab ride than it was worth. But I know it was less than I would have paid for the same ride in the states. So what's a few dollars here and there. I am glad for all the advice on this forum because it helps you to be more aware even if you think you are a very careful person.

Watching a couple of people getting hauled in by police is not exactly my definition of "experiencing" serious crimes. <BR> <BR>I've seen a person killed by a car, people rioting and looting, and a person get brutally beaten. Now those are serious crimes (and all experienced in US). <BR> <BR>Like I said before, NOTHING happened to me (there is a difference) while I was in Italy. And I think what most people on this thread are saying is that if you are alert and take some simple precautions (it is very HARD to not look like a tourist, but there are other precautions that you can take), the chance that you will experience any petty theft will greatly decrease. Nothing more nothing less.

crime is everywhere except san sebstian, <BR>spain. just got back from milan & perugia, italy. also barcelona and san sebastain, spain. after 13 hours of flying from san diego to LA to Brussels and no sleep. i fall asleep on a sabena flight to milan with my back pack under the seat in front of me. low and behold next thing i know i'm sitting in a restroom in milan airport looking for an important envelope..on the flight someone had stolen an envelope from my back pack. the only thing valuable was a train ticket, overnight, from milan to barcelona. had to pay for another one.anyways no trouble ANYWHERE. but in san sebastian you could walk around with hundred dollar bills sticking out of your pockets and have no trouble. you just walk into a tapas bar order a beer, eat as much as you can then YOU tell the bartender what YOU had. trust breeds honesty. it was a shockingly nice experience

Thank you for posting a message regarding some of the problems you and your wife encountered in Italy, in the hope to caution future visitors about the kinds of trickery they may encounter there. You are obviously getting a very mixed response. Don't feel bad; you can't please everybody. My brother had a bad experience there, himself. He lost his camcorder at the airport. Italy is one of the countries my husband and I will be visiting this September. Needless to say that, complacent is not what we are going to be in Italy.

There's no doubt in my mind that Rome has a major pickpocket problem, moreso than any US city that I've been in. In major US cities I take more recautions than normal and I've never had a problem. My 2nd visit to Rome I took was extremely careful of my wallet and passport .. in a camera bag around my next, next to my chest. And yet, on a subway, I looked down and saw the bag unzippered and a hand inside the bag right next to my wallet. Big shock! Especially since I was very continuously vigilant. Boy was I loud. Luckily I didn't lose anything. In 1 or 2 seconds I would have had my vacation ruined. There were 2 of them. One very large manuvered in front of me to hide the view. I was standing, crouded subway. The smaller guy just got close to my side. My back was to the wall and noone was to my left so I just had to concentrate to my front and right. Still they got so close. Both looked like ok people, not slimy looking like those at the train station. My family, 3 teenages and wife have a very low opinion of the folks in Rome. In fact in most of Italy. Sound like we're biased? Yes it's hard not too after seeing this. Throughout Rome and Pompeii we've never felt that you could trust the folks around you. After the subway stopped, a nun, who was on the Subway thanked me for being so vocal about these too. She had see this many times. The previous week a distraught old man on the subway lost his wallet. P.S., I didn't get the feeling that if he got my wallet that anyone would assist me if I got into a skuffle. P.S., you don't know how good it is to be in the US and not have to be so parinoid as we were in Rome. By the way, I'm 6'2", about 220# and am not a pushover but they still went for my wallet.

Jay Frank: <BR>Are you kidding? Unless I grievously misunderstand you, I must reply that the pizza in Rome (both in trattorie and pizze rustiche) is BY FAR the best I have EVER had ANYWHERE. <BR> <BR>As far as the crime goes, jeez, people, grow up. Anywhere you go that is different from what you are used to may have some drawbacks. There are people preying on other people in every large city in the world. At the risk of being repetitive, try not to look like a lost and dithering tourist and you'll be fine. I live in New York, but even when I first moved here, I knew better than to LOOK like I didn't know where I was going even if I DIDN'T know where I was going. Etc., etc.

We have had the same experiences in all 3 cases. The train station in Rome has a very well-organised theft ring involving of almost every person loitering tin the park in front of the station. I twisted an ankle to foil a group on five who had thier eyes set on my husband's leather briefcase. The gypsies in other popular tourist sites were even worse. Having lived here for ten years, I have come tp accept that thieving and cheating are valid, well- accepted occupations here. It is the most frustrating aspect of this country.