ITALY - Warning
 

Thought I would post a message concerning some of the problems that I encountered in Italy on my trip a few weeks ago. Some of these problems were me own fault and could have been prevented but the locals had a definite hand in helping. <BR> <BR>VENICE - You will be approached at some time during your visit to the Piazza San Marco by men offering free taxi rides to the Murano Glass Factory on a nearby island. They will inform you that these free rides will only be available for the next hour so don't wait. This is not true, they went on all day (1st clue). They will also tell you that after your trip to the factory, all you have to do is show your pass (given by them) to a taxi driver and he will return you to the Piazza for a mere 2500 L, this would cost normally about 30,000L by taxi and 6,000L by Vaporetta (2nd clue). Again not true, you must pay your way back. As you can already guess we fell for the trick. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't all bad. We got a private ride through the city by taxi and it only cost us for the return trip by Vaporetta. The tour of the factory was good but short at which time we got the hard sell for the more expensive pieces. We did purchase several small items for gifts to bring home but it turned out they were more expensive at the factory than on the mainland. <BR> <BR>Also beware of the restaurants in the Piazza that offer orchestra music at night. I new that sitting down to enjoy the cool night air and music would be reflected in the cost of the meal or desert ordered but I was not prepared to be charged 20000L specifically for listening to the music. <BR> <BR>ROME - As you have probably heard, Termini Station is not a fun place. Upon our arrival to Rome we promptly had a bag stolen while loading into the a taxi. We turned our back on it only for a moment but that was enough. The taxi stand is located right next to the metro stop. whoever grabbed the bag headed straight for the subway. We were also approached by several "unofficial" taxis and quoted prices of 50,000-60,000L for a ride to cental Rome near the Pantheon. (these taxis had the same cars, colors and door decals as the real ones) As it turned out the real cost was only around 18,000L. Also pay attention to the starting price on the meter. It should be only 4500L (some will try to start with 6500L). Make sure the prices are posted on a card in the back seat and notice any supplements that apply such as luggage (should be 2000L). Keep your money in your moneybelt at all times. Most of the major sights are targets for pickpockets. <BR> <BR>We enjoyed most of the things about Italy including the sights, food and shopping but were dismayed at having to watch our backs all of the time when this had not been the case in other countries. <BR>

Thanks Kirby for taking the time to inform us of your specific experiences in Italy. It's too bad that we have to be suspicious of people when we go to Italy - and some of the other countries,too. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to just take in everything around you instead of continually having to look over your shoulder. Thanks again.

Thanks for your cautionary note. You may have just saved somebody's vacation by posting these words of warning. Thanks again.

Thanks - it was valuable information. <BR> <BR>Most tourist destinations have a complex and varied infrastructure specializing in separating the tourist from his/her money. Venice is no exception. But what I most rememeber is how much my wife and I loved the vaporetti, how well we were treated, and how many people went out of their way to help when we got lost while exploring the city after dinner. <BR> <BR>As the saying goes: "When in Rome (or Venice, or ...), use caution and common sense." <BR> <BR>Being from the Chicago area, there is an additional warning I'd like to offer: Don't even think of ordering their pizza! <BR> <BR>

I'm sorry to disagree, but I think all of you are either naive or have never been to a big city. I or close acquaintances have have had pockets picked or purses snatched in New York, O'Hare airport Chicago, and Gatwick aitport London. My experience in Italy is that it is no worse than anywhere else.

Derek, Kirby doesn't sound naive to me at all. Its certainly true that petty crime exists in all big cities. However, I've looked over the State Departments travel advisories for various European cities and the ONLY one where they make special notice of scams and petty crimes is in the advisory for Italy. So if all of us are naive, I guess the US State Department is too.

I certainly don't feel naive only taken advantage of. My wife and I were simply trying to enjoy our vacation and experienced some difficulty. It seemed to us that we encountered more people in Italy that tried to squeeze just a little more out of normal transaction than we did in other countries. I'm not trying to badmouth Italy or its people, I'm only relaying my experience to this forum in hopes that it may help other travelers. <BR>

Derek: Also sorry to disagree but you and your close acquaintances have had your pockets picked and purses snatched in the US and UK. And you think "all of us are either naive or have never been to a big city"??? There also *must* be a reason that the US State Dept., guidebooks, web sites, and posters (myself included) on this forum and others mention the pickpocket problem in Italy. Regards, Walter <BR>

Thank you all for your tips. I am leaving July 24-Aug.7 yo Europe for 2 weeks and I am going to Italy,Austria,Swiss.and Germany. This will help me out alot. I will let you know about my trip when I get back. <BR> Dee Dee

Pockets picked and purses snatched in the US and the UK, HMMMMMMM, who's the naive one here?

My husband is from Italy, Tuscany, and even he can't believe what has happened in his country. I'm from NYC, so I'm no stranger to petty crime, but Italy can be bad. Every trip I've been on something has happened to someone I know. Yes, you do need street smarts, but there is also an underlying atmosphere of deceit at times. Unfortunately you cannot trust anyone, and you must CONSTANTLY watch your personal belongings and person. It is terribly unfortunate for a country so rich in history and beauty.

My husband and I spent 3 glorious weeks in Italy in the Summer of '97. We were also in Venice, took the trip to the Murano glass factory, haggled for our pieces of glass (much like one does in the Caribbean or Mexico), took the ferry back for the cost of two dollars american (about a two hour ride which allowed us to get a real feeling for Venice and the outlieing "islands") We stopped in Burano and had squid-ink pasta which I am still craving 2 years later. We took trains between Venice - Florance and Rome. We had no problems, although we did see one lady get her purse snatched outside the Vatican, But the amount of people who immediately ran to get police, ran after the guy who snatched the purse (who was on a moped), knocked him down, and then proceeded to hold him until the authorities arrived was encouraging. We took the subway in Rome out to Oustia Antica, again no problems. We are in our early 30's and I have very long blonde hair so we were not mistaken for Italians, however several people thought we were french so... if you know a foreign language use it, try to dress in a manner that does not call attention to yourself. I found the Bahamas and Hawaii to be much more aggressive than Italy. P.S. We live in L.A. and we have never had ANY problems with pickpockets, purse snatching, muggings etc. Just be aware.

just back from tuscany area and florence and venice with 15 family members children included saw no evidence of crime quite the contrary every was so very nice and friendly not like in nyc or people in america in general

On my recent trip to Italy we felt safer than in most European countries and American cities. the key is to be aware ofwhat is going on around you especially in crowded tourist locations and transportation hubs. Why doesn't the state department offer the same advise about petty crimes American cities? Certainly people are confronted with more violent crimes in Los Angeles, New York, Miami and other big cities. I bet you would be surprised what European and Asian governments say about your hometowns..... <BR> <BR>P.S. Whe someone approachs you with an offer you cannot refuse, refuse it. Nothing is free.

Sorry to have stirred up so many negative feelings about various cities around the world. We have all had different experiences (some good and some bad) during our travels and ours just happened to be in Rome. I live in Houston which is not small by any means but not near as large as Rome . I'm sure there are some of you that could expand on bad experiences that occured in Houston but that is not the point of my posting. I only wished to help other travelers when approached with the same situations, whether or not they be in Rome, NYC or Houston. <BR>

I can't agree more with Kirby. Exactly the same things that happened to him happened to us. To top it off, I was walking in broad daylight on a busy street in Florence and I was accosted by a team of thieves. A woman manhandled me while a small child attempted to grab my wallet from my front pocket. You can see the difference in attitude in locals who grasp their handbags closely compared with say Geneva, Switzerland where everyone is causally walking about looking like they don't have a care in the world. We were warned by everyone, including tour guides, taxi drivers, etc. to be on the alert for the ever present thieves of one kind or another. <BR>Having said all this, the fact is you will not see the Sistine Ceiling in Geneva. And I don't want to exaggerate. The fact is, there were many acts of kindness extended to us in Italy.

There is a consistency in the above postings. Those who have been to Italy recently are dismayed by the level of dishonesty and petty crime. Those who have never been there take a more conceptual view, such as crime is bad everywhere, or it’s really the victim’s fault. <BR>Having recently spent two weeks in Italy and having spent a good deal of time in other Western European countries, there really is a difference. Those who serve the tourist trade are there to make a living. But the level of larcenous conduct in Italy is exceptional. <BR>Italy is a great place. However, what kind of a vacation will you have when you are constantly irritated by solicitations for such things as taxi rides that cost five times the legitimate rate, and being reminded by well meaning people of the dangers lurking everywhere? When I was accosted in Italy, thankfully, my mother was not with us. We did not tell her about the incident because she is by nature cautious. Her entire vacation would have been profoundly marred by the incident. My fourteen year old daughter was with us and I am sure she will remember it for a very long time. <BR>Just think of Shirley's experience. She puts a positive spin on witnessing a rather serious crime. What do you think the chances are of witnessing such an incident in Switzerland? <BR> <BR>

I was going to stay out of this, but am giving in after reading the claim that people who have been to Italy agree that it's rife with thieves and people who haven't are inclined to point out that crime is everywhere. I've been to Italy twice recently. Both times before I left, people issued warnings about crime, etc. Nothing happened to us, and I didn't see anything happen to anyone else, although I was on the lookout. I am not saying that any of our perspectives represent some sort of overarching truth or paranoid fallacy, but if you are a tourist, hanging out in heavily touristed places and accepting offers to do very touristy things from total stangers, you are an easy mark (although that doesn't mean you deserve to have bad things happen to you, or that that's the only reason people are preyed upon). <BR>When something bad happens that confirms people's stereotypes, there is a tendency to view it as statistically valid evidence. When something bad happens and most people wouldn't expect it, it's seen as a fluke. "There must be a reason" the State Department issues warnings about Italy and not other countries in Europe. I'm sure there is a reason. How can you be sure it's a good one? (And no, "Because I agree with it" doesn't count.)

Boy, are we a defensive bunch. I have been to Italy numerous times, my husband is from Italy. When people on the post offer advise concerning this issue, it is intended for caution. Just because you have not been assaulted, just because you have not been ripped off either by shady or underhanded dealings, unscrupulous characters or physically acosted and ripped off, does not mean that it is not happening. Believe me, it may not happen this trip or the next but it will happen. Most people do use caution when traveling either in this country or abroad, but you really have to exercise a bit more than caution when traveling in Italy. You must remain alert to your surroundings at all times. Italy is an incredible place and the Italian people are a warm, generous bunch. Don't let a few rotten apples ruin your trip, but please be aware of what is going on. Do not let your guard down. It is unfortunate that this is the situation, but to deny that it, is just plain foolish. Just because it hasn't happened to you, does not mean that it hasn't happened to many other people.

The State Department issues warnings after a great deal of political caution. Remember, Western European countries are our allies; to insult them with a false warning, advisory, etc. is certainly against protocol. They've issued an advisory against Italy for petty crimes, scams, etc. They didn't do this lightly. The warnings are for large cities' tourist sites, trains, and on the road. If Italy issues the same warning for NYC Time Square, Florida highway rest stops and telephone solicitors; I won't be offended and neither will the State Department. <BR>Forewarned is forearmed; in Milan, we were accosted by potential thieves (the newspaper stuck in front of our faces by one woman while another attempted to rob us), but we were prepared with purses inside our coats and a firm grip on our cameras. Other than an annoyance (and an adrenaline rush), it was nothing. If we HADN'T been prepared, it would have been disaster. If you're driving through Florida, and make sure you stop at the well-lit, heavily-travelled Stuckey Plaza, no problem and you'll report back to your friends "I don't know what the big deal is". If you pull into a deserted state-sponsored rest stop... Kirby pointed out that he took some responsibility for being a dufus (hey when haven't any one of us been that?) and just gave a heads-up so anyone visiting Italy can avoid problems. Note he didn't say "don't go to ITALY!!"...anyway, none of us would pay any attention to that if he did. <BR> <BR>And here's a warning for anyone coming to the U.S.: there are con games where you're asked to put your money down on a table, and guess which number will be picked. Oh wait, that's all of Las Vegas...where I, personally, have many MANY MMMMAAAANNNYY times, fallen for this very ruse.