Italy itinerary help
 

Hello all and thanks for the help in advance!
I am in the beginning phase of planning a month long trip to Europe in May 2009 when my boyfriend and I graduate from college. The first stop is Italy and here is what I have in mind so far:
Day 1. Fly
Day 2-5. Rome
Day 6. Day trip to Ostia Antica
Day 7. Travel to Florence
Day 8. Florence
Day 9. Day trip to Cinque Terre or Siena
10. Travel to Padua with stop in Bologna
11. Padua
12. Day trip to Venice, night train to next destination.

Does the time seem right for each location? Is Cinque Terre too far away for a day trip from Florence? I know my time in Venice is short but being on a budget makes is hard to stay there. Also has anybody been to Padua? It looks really neat but is hard to find information on cheap hotels, B&B's, hostels, etc. We are trying to stay under 75 euro for a double. Also, how long do we need to explore Padua? If it is more then a day we can cut out Bologna.

Hi Lindy,

Great fun. Sounds like you are on a train. Your Italy time will give you a quick overview of Italy.

If you like history and buildings then spend more time in Rome. If you are into art then more time in Florence.

Cinque Terre is hard to do in a day if you are planning on hiking, and it is a place that should not be missed. There are plenty of places that fit in your budget there. Vernazza has tons of lodgings in peoples houses... just knock on doors with rental sign (no problem being full that time of year). If you prefer reservations this place is within your budget. http://www.giannifranzi.it/.

I have not been to Padua. When we go to venice we stay in Mestre, which is less expensive and a 10 minute bus ride into Venice. Villa Grazilla is also within your budget. http://www.villagraziella.com

I have an idea for you:

How about getting off the plane and and grabbing a hotel in Ostia? (It's only 9km for FCO. You can reach it by public transporation, so don't pay a huge taxi bill.)

Next day, when you're not jet lagged, head into Roma (again on public trans).

You can't really do le Cinque Terra as a day trip from Firenze. Siena, si.

Why are you stopping in Bologna?

I would do Padova as a day trip from Venezia. To see the Scrovegni and the Duomo, have a walk through the historic center and a coffee is about five hours. Seven if you have lunch and leave before teatime.

But I wouldn't try to do touristing in Bologna and Padova on the same day.

I would NOT stay in Mestre for a first trip to Venezia. You can find a place within your budget if you look hard and book early.

Hi L,

>10. Travel to Padua with stop in Bologna
11. Padua
12. Day trip to Venice, night train to next destination.<

I would stay n Venice with a daytrip to Padua.

Padua needn't take up a whole day.

Venice is much nicer at night when the daytrippers have gone.

((I))

lindy,

I take back my idea about going directly to Ostia. You need a nice day to tour Ostia Antica. Better to head right into Roma, which has plenty of things to do to wait out a rainstorm.

lindy,

Congratulations - you've got the makings for a memorable trip.

As suggested by Zeppole, a day trip from Florence to the Cinque Terre is not recommended. Indeed, I think anything less than two days and nights in the CT would leave you disappointed, regretting that you didn't allocate more time. By all means, try to work in at least two days for this marvelous seaside corner of Italy.

If you'd like, check out some photos my summer of '07 trip to the Cinque Terre at explorerbear.blogspot.com

As regards Padua, this city has two must-see sites, Scrovegni Chapel (featuring marvelous frescoes by Giotto) and St. Anthony's Basilica. To my mind, Padua works best as a day trip. As an alternative, consider staying overnight in Verona. Like Padua, it's part of the Veneto, yet it's a more charming place than Padua and a refreshing change of pace from the urban hustle of Rome and Florence.

Best of luck.

So I'm thinking of either:
1. Adding a stay in the Cinque Terre for 2 nights, and getting rid of Padua/Venice and spending more time for day trips from Florence.
2. Getting rid of the Cinque Terre and going to Siena instead and staying in Venice and doing Padua as a day trip.

Any ideas on either of those ideas? I'm afraid Venice/Florence/Rome will be too many big cities.

If you can't find accommodations in Venice within your budget, staying in Padova is a good alternative. It's about 45-50 minutes away by train, and the last direct train from Venice to Padova leaves at 11:30 p.m. which gives you the opportunity to experience Venice in the evening.

My niece studied in Padova for more than a year. We stayed with her twice and went into Venice for the day a few times.

But check the various hostel websites. Although they book up early, there are options within your budget in Venice. Here's one:

http://www.youthhostelvenice.com/

Regarding your latest thoughts...

I wouldn't drop Venice to add time to Cinque Terre.

I wouldn't sleep in Florence and Venice but spend the days tripping to other towns.

There's nothing wrong with choosing small towns over big cities, but you should decide your priority for this trip. You currently have 9 full days and 2 partial days. (Unless you arrive on Day 1; if so, add one day to these calculations.) Now, deduct a half day every time you move to the next hotel, and you're left with the days you actually have to work with.

I once stopped at Padova on my way to Venice from Florence and I wasn't impressed by it.

Have you consider stayed in a convent in Venice? They're inexpensive and nice.

Castellenese, did you go to the Scrovegni when once stopped in Padova?

lindy27,

Nobody can advise you -- or at least I can't -- without knowing what you want out of this visit to Italia.

Siena and le Cinque Terre are wildly different places. They couldn't be more different! One is a medieval walled city -- with a particularly hard history at that -- and the other is a collection of fishing villages.

A lot of people if you go anywhere in Europe you should follow a checklist. Therefore, no matter how badly you want to be by the beautiful mediterranean and enjoy nature, and relax -- you should go to Venezia.

On the other hand, you're the one paying for this trip, and if you hope leave there having grasped something about the history of art, architecture and the intersection of Europe and the Near East, or experience the claustrophobia of a medieval walled city, then don't go off to Cinque Terre.

But a lot of people really need a mix -- a few days soaked in art, and a few days soaking in a hot spring or the sea.

But geography and budget are going to force you to make hard choices, so tell us what you most want for the money you're going to spend.

Typo alert:

I meant to write:

A lot of people think if you go anywhere in Europe, you should follow a checklist. Therefore, no matter how badly you want to be by the beautiful mediterranean and enjoy nature, and relax -- you should go to Venezia.

I also wanted to add:

Don't be afraid to drop Venezia -- or any city -- from your destinations if you think a trip of all big cities is going to leave you feeling like you missed something important about Italy.

Like someone posted earler, you have the makings of a great trip already, and Italy is filled with treasures at every step, in big and small towns.

Although it can be expensive to stay in Firenze and day trip, it can also be nice to be in Firenze at night when you are young. And after at least half the tourists are gone or back at their hotels for the night.

Thanks for all the help so far!
I am definately looking for a place in Italy where we can take a break from the larger cities. Whether it is a day trip or a longer stay depends on the location. I know we want to see at least 2 of the 3 major cities (Rome/Florence/Venice) and Rome is for sure. I also would like to keep it to 3 hotels. I would also love to have the last stop be a smaller town worth a day of sightseeing and then a possible day trip.

We are traveling by train and are trying to limit distances along with travel time. I would love to see the coast but can't seem to find anything worth seeing as a short daytrip from Rome or Florence, any ideas? We also need to get to a location with a night train to Munich on the 12th day..these cities are Venice/Bologna/Florence.

Italy has only a few brief stretches of spectacular coastline, and none of them easily fit into your plans. The destinations nearest Roma are really beach vacations for Romans. They are places to go and enjoy a few days in hot weather, not really worth your while as destinations. And the Italian Riviera (which includes le Cinque Terre) just doesn't work with your itinerary.

I'm tempted to suggest that you consider substitute staying in Ferrara, between Bologna and Venezia, for your small town experience. From Ferrara, you could also take a very impressive day trip to Ravenna.

So your trip would be:

Day 1. Fly
Day 2-5. Rome
Day 6. Day trip to Ostia Antica
Day 7. Travel to Florence
Day 8. Florence
Day 9. Florence -- Day trip to Siena
10. Travel to Ferrara
11. Ferrara -- day trip to Ravenna
12. Travel to Venice, stow luggage at train station, wander through Venice, night train to next destination.

I can already hear the Venezia lovers howling, and you might howl too if you glimpse Venezia and fall in love with it, but if you want to stick to 2 cities plus one small town, then either Venezia or Firenze has to go.

In October we are staying in Venice at a b&b that is inexpensive and has good reviews on tripadvisor. We stayed in a more expensive hotel our last trip to Venice but we are going to try this b&b. You can email them directly for availability and maybe a better rate than what is on the website.
http://www.bbvenezia.com/pages/english.htm
[email protected]

Some info on Ferrara:

http://wikitravel.org/en/Ferrara

http://historictravel.suite101.com/a.../italy_ferrara

http://goeurope.about.com/cs/liechte.../a/ferrara.htm

I'm not suggesting you lockstep into this Ferrara touring guide, but it will give you some idea about Ferrara

http://tinyurl.com/ferrara

and some pictures of Ferrara:

http://tinyurl.com/ferraraPIX

You have not said how interested you are in art/architecture/Roman history. If these are important to you I would concentrate on the Rome/Florence/Venice itinerary with side trips built in and cut out Cinque Terre. On my first trip to Europe in college I started out in Florence and felt that I had stepped into the pages of my Fine Arts textbook.

Another place you could consider staying for an overnight away from the bigger cities is the Umbrian hill town, Orvieto (population around 22,000). Many people visit it as a day trip from Rome and it is on the train line to Florence.

Ostia Antica is probably not a long day trip from Rome for most people --maybe 6 hours--so you can plan more Rome sight seeing on that day. If you feel really overwhelmed by the city (wonderful as it is) you might want to go out to the Appian Way park area on one of your days in Rome, too.

I agree with zeppole that the cathedral, the historic center and especially the Giotto frescoes in Padua are well worth visiting. It is also a university city. I would stay in Padua and take the short train trip to/from Venice over staying in Mestre, but if you can find somewhere in Venice that is affordable I agree that staying there so you can explore in early morning and evening hours is better.

I know you are planning to take a night train from Italy to Munich but I would recommend considering a day trip if you are not going to be spending time during the rest of your trip in the Alps. The views of the mountains are spectacular

Whatever you decide to do, I am sure you will love Italy

Okay so I'm getting rid of the Cinque Terre for this trip.

We are into architecture/history but have actually been to Florence in the past and went to the major art museums so we are skipping those this time. My boyfriend is not really into art musuems, but we like historical and sculpture musuems.

We currently have no time in the Alps. I thought about stopping in Innsbruck but then didn't hear very good things about it so we scratched it. Maybe there is a Northern Italian city between Venice and Munich worth a stop?

So I will look into cheap places in Venice but will also research other neighboring cities like Ferrara (it looks pretty neat so far), Padua, and Verona (I looked here before but it might be too far from Venice)

If the boyfriend really isn't into museums, I'm going to change my advice and suggest you drop Firenze from your itinerary. And I'll suggest you add Orvieto as a day trip from Roma.

And I'm going to toss out that you explore the possibility of taking a scenic train to Switzerland, and catch a train onward to Munich from Switzerland. I've not done this, but I think you want to look at the route of the Bernina Express, but I don't know where in Italy is the best place to catch that train.

I'm tossing out:

Day 1. Fly
Day 2-5. Rome
Day 6. Day trip to Ostia Antica
Day 7. Travel to Ferrara
Day 8. Ferrara, day trip to Ravenna
Day 9. Venezia
10. Venezia
11. travel to town for scenic train following morning (near Bergamo?)

If the scenic train doesn't appeal, I suggest you keep the above schedule and either add a day in Roma to do a day trip to Orvieto, or add a day to Venezia, to either visit Torcello, or Treviso or Verona. Head for Munich from Venezia.

Zeppole, does everybody have to agree with you all the time or are you one of those people who are just impressed by everything and feel offended when somebody isn't as easy to impress as you?

I did visit the Scrovegni Chapel and you know what? I was not impressed by it because I've never been a fan of Giotto's work.

The rest of the city is nothing to be excited about compared to other wonderful cities in Italy. This is just my opinion, though. I'm not trying to convince anybody because this forum isn't about that; it's about "giving opinions".

This is only my opinion, so I'm sure you'll readily accept it, but I wouldn't take travel advice from someone who wasn't impressed by the Scrovegni, and I'd advise others to do the same.

There is plenty to do in Florence if your focus is architecture and sculpture. The Bargello is an amazing museum for sculpture and fewer people visit it than the Uffizi and Academia.

As far as the Alps go, I think Innsbruck is a fine stop for an overnight/one day. I would not rank it with Salzburg or Vienna but for a stop with beautiful scenery on the main train line to Munich it would be fine. In northern Italy, we enjoyed stopping in Trent on our first trip over the Alps by train
years ago. Bolzano and Bressanone are other possible stops. The trip from northern Italy to Munich over the Brenner pass is beautiful and historically interesting. It is hard to imagine how Hannibal ever crossed these mountains with elephants!

Another place you could consider staying near Venice is Vicenza--best known for its Palladian architecture.

It needs to be added that some of the best Palladian architecture in Vicenza is really only accessible by car if the primary reason for going to Vicenza is a keen interest in Palladio.

lindy,

I hadn't noticed your comment about her boyfriend's interest in sculpture so if he has yet to visit the Bargello, he might want to, even without overnighting in Firenze. In Bologna, Nicolo d'Arca's terracotta statuary in the church of Santa Maria delle Vita is worth going out of one's to see.

Were you staying in Ferrara, you might choose to day trip to Firenze over Ravenna, depending on your interests.

Zeppole, it's just your opinion but you advice others not to follow advice from somebody who wasn't impressed by the Scrovegni?

That means you don't think it's just "your opinion". It simply means that you think "you're right" and that's why everybody follow your advice.

Anyhow, I could care less if you think you're always right or not or if you're easy to impress. Twice I've given "my opinion" on this thread and on the "Garbage in Naples" thread and twice you have made rude remarks about them just because they don't match yours. If you don't agree with somebody, just leave your opinion and that's it.

Did your parents ever "stop" to teach you manners and to respect other people's opinion?

I left you a very rude message on the "Garbage in Naples" thread. It shows no manners whatsoever, but you're the kind of person who needs to be put in her place every now and then.

Castellenese,

I didn't make rude remarks or tell people to ignore your travel advice because it doesn't agree with my opinion. I said what I said because you aren't well informed and you seem to be a particualarly dopey traveller.

It's not hard to find out BEFORE you go to Napoli where the high-end shopping streets are if you're interested. And it isn't hard to find out BEFORE you go to visit a church which artist painted its interior. You don't seek out the places that interest you, and then you tell other people where to go?

I'm not a "fan" of Gaudi (do you know who that is?), but when people talk about being interested in going to Barcelona, I don't imply to others it's not worth THEIR time to go. I just tell them that it's worth going if they have a strong interest in Gaudi. Do you see the difference?

You want to wave a flag for free speech and good manners. How about leading by example?

Thanks for warning me not to revisit that other thread!

How about taking the Naples discussion back to the Naples thread? I'm almost sorry to agree with zeppole after this exchange, but I have to say that Ferrara is a good alternative base for a quick look at Venice. My first trip through Italy I stayed in Ferrara (www.borgonuovo.com/locanda.html - very nice place) and found the town much more interesting than I expected. I day tripped to Ravenna (not to be missed) and spent a quick three hours in Venice between trains - just long enough to take a vaporetto to St. Marks and the Rialto, and eat lunch, and decide I wanted to go back for a real visit.

I've taken the train through the Brenner pass twice - Innsbruck to Verona route - and thought the scenery spectacular. I've stayed in Castelrotto in the Dolomites (bus from Bolzano), and thought Bolzano a neat place,also.

No thanks, thurs! But it's not about me, it's about lindy's trip -- and thanks for pointing that out.

hi there- my (30-something) husband and I stayed in Rome on a budget last year. We stayed at a place called The Beehive and it was perfect- the main location is like a very upscale hostel, with private rooms and lovely common areas (not grungy at all!) We stayed in the apartment, which was a few blocks from the train station and a bit funky to get to (elevator was tiny and fussy) but the room was amazing- the tallest ceilings I've ever seen, almost like staying in a basketball court (in a good way).

And, at that point in our trip, we were thankful for the free internet access at the common-area computer. There were 3 (I think) other rooms in the apartment but it was fine to share, and fun to meet nice people. Anyway, big "thumb's up" to The Beehive for those staying in Rome on a budget:

http://www.the-beehive.com/english.html

p.s. Since you are young and hearty, I suggest doing a day trip to Pompeii, instead of Ostia Antica. It is totally do-able to get to Pompeii and back in a day, and there are frequent trains.

(Plus, none of your friends has ever heard of Ostia Antica!)

>>(Plus, none of your friends has ever heard of Ostia Antica!)<<

I think this is the big governor for a lot of people choosing destinations in Italia that are rich but not famous.

It's true that if you go to Ferrara or Ostia Antica in lieu of more touristed places, when you get home, people will say "What? You were in Italy and didn't go to ------??????"

Only you can judge how important that is to you.

(On the other hand, a willingness to explore new places can be another way to make friends, just like sharing books or movies you've both seen. When people say to you, "Ostia Antica? I've always wanted to go. How was your trip?" it's a clue you might have other interests in common.

Pompeii is a vast site which I don't think is enjoyable as a day trip, especially not from Roma, even as a notch in the belt for the young.

But if you're really interested, ask people who have been to both for their advice and have a basis for comparison. You can probably find a lot of them on the Slow Travel website.

Hi, can I make a suggestion? I agree with your idea of getting rid of the Cinque Terre and going to Siena instead. Siena is closer to Florence. Beautiful city and a lot to see and do. I think staying in Venice and doing to Padua as a day trip is still a lot of work. And Venice is worth staying in for a while and seeing well. Perhaps you’ll go back to Italy and could see Padua another time? You’ll have a great trip and there’s so much to do already in Venice.

So much good advice!

The main reason Ostia Antica is on there instead of Pompeii is that my parents went to Ostia Antica a few years ago and couldn't stop talking about how cool it was. We also plan on going to southern Italy in a seperate trip as I could spend several weeks there easily.

I'm going to start looking at a spot in the Alps to stop instead of taking the night train. I think either Innsburck or Bolzano.

I have heard of the Beehive and am glad to hear it was a good place to stay! That will be added to my list, it sounds perfect for us.

We also narrowed down our stay in Venice to either Venice (if we find it cheap enough) or Ferrara.

>>I think staying in Venice and doing to Padua as a day trip is still a lot of work.<<

I don't know why. It's a very easy half hour train trip. Most people do go to see Capella degli Scrovegni, which is a 15-minute walk from the train station.

You make a reservation, but that can be done online. It's true, you will have to wait in an outer area to be admitted (for reasons of climate control) but the site is very small and one's whole visit is no more than a half hour.

Of course you can't be in both Venezia and Padova at the same time. One has to choose between masterpieces. But if you want to see Giotto's masterpiece, it's simple to do when you're in Venezia. I was very glad I took time out of Venezia to see it, and equally glad I took the even longer trip to Torcello to see the mosaics there. I'm sure when you've done some research, you'll know how you want to organize your time -- unless you fall in love with the idea of being in Ferrara and visiting Ravenna, yet another set of masterworks to choose from.

lindy,

Allow me to echo the thoughts of Thursday and place a vote for Bolzano. If you're seeking a taste of the Dolomites, do consider using this small city as a base. It has a good tourist infrastructure, without being tourist trampled, and features the first-rate South Tirol Archaeological Museum, complete with the preserved remains of Otzi, a 5,300-year-old man. You had expressed an interest in history, and this fine museum would be just the ticket. While getting around from Bolzano is doable with public transport, I've found a rental car is preferable. Also, when staying in Bolzano, consider lodging at the Hotel Figl. This modern accommodation is super tidy, centrally located, and reasonably priced. After a hearty breakfast, you'll be ready to make daytrips into the magnificent mountains of northern Italy. By the way, Thursday is also correct about Kastelruth (aka Castelrotto), a very charming village in the heart of the mountains.

www.figl.net

Best of luck.

I'm very sorry Lindy for using your post for this.

"I don't know if you know how to read, Zeppole, but the whole time I wrote: "In my opinion, I think, I didn't". I never said: "There aren't, it's a fact, etc."

Since "you do know better", why don't you enlight us with your wisdom and say: "you didn't check this or that part of the city". I thought we all were on this forum to learn from each other; I didn't know we were here to have a smart ass tell us off whenever we write something that doesn't match his/her opinion.

I even asked the guy from the shop in Spaccanapoli if there were any other shops like the one where he worked and he mentioned nothing but the places I mentioned above and "he" knows better than "you" do because the guy was a born and raised neapolitan.

You chose as a nickname a neapolitan sweet and you already feel you have the right to tell off anybody who doesn't agree with you concerning Naples? I said it before and I'll say it again: I think that shopping in Naples wasn't a big deal compared not only to northern cities like Turin, but also compared to southern cities like Palermo.

Please, Zeppole, next time you see a post written by me, ignore it. I don't want you to enlight me with your knowledge even if you're the only smart ass who knows the answer".

Castellanese.

Now this is hard to believe. A person who dismisses Padova in one sentence ("...wasn't impressed by it") dares aggrandizing him/herself to such an extent? And another poster says "I'm almost sorry to agree with zeppole after this exchange"? I mean how low can you go? zeppole's remarks were spot on, both on Padova and on Castellanese!

Let me tell you, Castellanese, that this forum is NOT about exchanging opinions, at least not opinions of every kind. If it's my opinion that gravity doesn't exist, who cares? If it's my opinion that Stockholm is the capital of Sierra Leone, who cares? This forum is about giving advice, and though it may surprise you, it's really about facts. Gravity is a fact. Stockholm is in Sweden, that's a fact. The Cappella degli Scrovegni is one of the most important art treasures world-wide, that's a fact. Knowing it is indispensable for any kind of understanding of the history of painting, that's a fact. No, you're not obliged to admire it, or to like Giotto in general. Yes, also your negative opinion on Giotto might be interesting here. But simply dismissing it as "didn't impress me", without even mentioning how important it is (if need be adding that, and why, it doesn't meet your taste) - that's definitely not an opinion, that's a disgrace without equal.
It's also not true that the rest of Padova is neglectable, there are other important sights, as well. Lindy, I think it depends on your main interests. As far as romantic air, out-of-this-world feeling, Venice is certainly incomparable, and your time there will be too short in any case. But if you happen to be interested in painting, go to Padova. At least, don't let nonsensical remarks like "wasn't impressed" deter you from visiting one of this planet's main sights.

I think I'll stay out of this (except to say I'm not related to franco)

lindy--it sounds as though you are pretty much set on Ferrara or Venice for that part of your trip.
For anyone else interested in the different cities that have been mentioned on this thread, I still think Vicenza w/o a car is a good option. There are many amazing Palladian buildings in the city center. Having a car to explore farther out would give you access to even more.

As for Ostia Antica, I agree with your parents' assessment. It is a fascinating place and much easier than Pompeii to see from Rome. One difficult thing about the layout is that the bookstore is located far from the entrance. If you want to buy a guide to understand what you are seeing this requires backtracking. Maybe you could find a guide somewhere in Rome before your visit to Ostia

If after all the back and forth about the frescoes in Padua you want to see some other works by Giotto, the frescoes in Santa Croce in Florence and the Stefaneschi triptych in the Pinacoteca section of the Vatican museums are well worth at least a detour in Michelin terms.

Well, Franco, I think this is unbelievable, too.

When I said at the beginning of the post that "I" wasn't impressed by Padova when I stopped there on my way from Florence to Venice, I meant it in the sense that I couldn't believe Lindy was dismissing staying in Venice and considering doing it as a day trip from Padova. Of course, I should've explained why I wasn't impressed, but I understand that it was for budget reasons and it's Lindy's trip at the end of the day. If her heart is set on basing in Padova, that's her decision and I'm nobody to talk her out of it like Zeppole and you, Franco, are assuming.

I never said it's not worth visiting the Scrovegni Chapel even though I wasn't impressed. I never said "Don't go to Padova" or "Don't visit the Scrovegni Chapel" did I? Just highlight the paragraph where I said that because I certainly missed it.

However, you know what is unbelievable, Franco? I write "my" opinion using the phrase "I think" and suddenly Zeppole feels the need to leave a rude remark about it both on this thread and on the Naples thread and people like Thursday and you, Franco, encourage her to do so. Bravo! Be rude, Zeppole!

One thing is to have freedom of speech and one thing is to respect other's opinion. However, Zeppole has the nerve to say: "set an example of freedom of speech, Castellanese". I am! I'm saying: "I think, in my opinion, etc", but saying what's on my mind about another person who's just said his opinion isn't freedom of speech, it's simply having no manners. What do you do, Zeppole? You go on the streets telling people: "you're this and you're that" because to you that's freedom of speech?

Zeppole makes rude remarks and also starts assuming things about the way I travel and I should say: "it's ok".

What does she think? That I was traveling on my to Venice and suddenly I saw the Padova sign and said: "oh, let's stop here". I did my research in advance with my bookguide and I just wasn't impressed. Explain why I wasn't impressed? That would be trying to talk Lindy out of a decision she already made. I just said: "I wasn't impressed with Padova when I stopped there" and then Zeppole starts implying that I didn't visit this or that place and that's when I finally said that I wasn't impressed with the chapel, but I repeat, I never said: "Lindy, I wasn't impressed with the chapel so don't go there and don't go to Padova". Did I?

The same thing about Naples. Somebody else wrote on the Naples thread that she/he thought the shopping in Naples was uninteresting and that the whole city was a Hellhole. I just said that I also thought the shopping there was uninteresting (I never said anything about the city, though), but Zeppole felt the need to leave a rude remark about "my opinion" and assuming things that I never said. I planned my trip to Naples 6 months in advance using the help of this website and a bookguide. My bookguide mentioned that X and Y street were the places to do excellent shopping. I asked the clerk at the clothing store in Naples what places I should check for shopping in Naples and he mentioned exactly the same places my bookguide recommended. Is that improvising? Is that waking up and say: "I'm going shopping in Naples today"?, but Zeppole, again, feelt the need to leave a rude remark and assume that I only spent a day (I spent a week in Naples) and that I didn't check all the places devoted to shopping in Naples. I guess I must write a complaining letter to Tim Jepson who wrote the National Geographic bookguide of Naples and say: "Listen, you don't know what you're talking about" and go back to Naples and tell the neapolitan guy who helped me at the clothing store: "Listen, there are other places to shop in Naples and you didn't tell me anything about it".

But I guess is OK, Franco, for Zeppole to leave rude remarks and assuming things that aren't true and feel the need to tell everybody about it.

When somebody says something I don't agree with, I just leave my opinion and let others have their own conclusions, but apparently Zeppole's way is acceptable since you, Franco, and Thursday agree with her entirely.

Yes, Franco, it is unbelievable how you encourage that kind of rude behavior and it's incredible how you both assumed all those insane things you both have said from a simply:

"I wasn't impressed by Padova when I stopped there".