Italian Train 1st or 2nd Class - Luggage
 

I will be in Italy with my wife in about a month. During the two week trip we'll make one city change by train; from Florence to Rome.

The train ride is about 1 1/2 hours.

My concern is our luggage. Otherwise 2nd class is fine. We each have a 25" suitcase and a small carry-on bag.

On previous trips we've left our luggage at the front but even so I'm a little uneasy about having our luggage 4 or 5 seats away.

Premium or 1st class would cost about 10E more for each of us (total 20E). Would luggage handling be any more convenient booking those seats.

In 2nd class we could leave the suitcases at the front of the car and chain them together (I've seen this done) making them almost impossible to steal. Or we could just leave them at the front and not worry about them (known as doing nothing).

Don't tell us to travel will 11" (or 21") suitcases. That won't work.

Any recent experiences?

You handle your own luggage. On the fast train between Rome/Florence there are no stops so I don't know where you think someone would be able to steal them.

Some of the fast trains have luggage areas mid car and seating with tables have space behind the seat to slide your luggage in (although 25" may be too big unless you lay it down flat first).

Some of the fast trains do stop at Tiburtina (another station in Rome). You would have to check whether it's before or after Termini.

FYI - Forgot to add Premium is 2nd class with the same seating, size, layout, etc. The only difference is the fabric on the seat and you get a free drink.

The small carry on bag will fit on the rack above. It is possible that the larger suitcase can fit between the seats from one row to aother if not at the designated luggage space at the end of certain carriages - see kybourbon's postings.

Whatever you do, do not occupy the aisle with your suitcases or occupy other seats with your luggage - Italians hate this.

Thanks.

Rome Tirburtina is the only stop and it's 12 minutes before Termini.

I'm sure I can handle that.

Premium or 1st class would cost about 10E more for each of us (total 20E). Would luggage handling be any more convenient booking those seats.>

At 10 euro more only - go first class - less riders per same size train car means more room in overhead luggage racks and a more leisurely ride - see if you can book solo seats facing each other- an aisle and window seat both - two of these can face each other - no bothering others to get in our out.

These seats to me are the big difference between 1st and 2nd class -2nd class is always I believe 2x2.

10 euros is chump change in Italy - complementary coffee and snack is included.

For lots on Italian trains check www.seat61.com (great rundown of the very real differences between 1st and 2nd class; in previous post about Italy Man in Seat 61 said he 'is an aficionado of first class); www.ricksteves.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com.

If the difference in price was a lot 2nd class is yes comfy enugh - but for that little extra 1st cl to me is a no-brainer.

Oops - I misread your post - thought you meant Premium or (and) first class were just 10 euro more but if you thought Premium was first class then the benefits of Premium over regular 2nd class are as bourbon says nil

If you meant 1st class was also only 10 euro extra then real first-class for that little more would be a no-brainer to me.

But if real first class means a lot more money then on such a short trip 2nd class is fine -board early as possible to nab luggage space.

Sorry for mix-up.

If this is a Frecciarossa train, there is no 1st class. There's Standard, Premium, Business, and Executive.

Premium, as KYBourbon says, has no more room for luggage, or for your derrière, than Standard class has. Business class has three seats across rather than four, so there is more overhead space per person, but less behind-the-seat space, because the single seats on one side of the aisle have a shorter space behind them. This space is not yours by right, because the person behind you (with back-to-back seating) has an equal claim on it, and you may find it occupied when you board.

I don't think there's any risk of a suitcase being stolen on a Florence to Rome train trip on a Frecciarossa train. You can keep at eye on it at the Tiburtina stop if it makes you feel better.

The kinds of things likely to be stolen on a long-distance train are small bags, purses, or laptop cases.

The train I'm looking at is a Frecciargento.

These have 1st and 2nd class.

In that case, 2nd class has the same luggage storage space as Standard or Premium, and 1st class has the luggage storage space of Business. As I said, Business has, on average, more overhead space, because there are 1/3 fewer seats. However, it has less behind-the-seat space, again, because there are fewer seats.

The definition of "small carry-on bag" is pretty flexible. If you can lift the bag over your head, you can put it in the overhead rack. If it's really small, you can put it under your seat. A 25-inch bag will have to go in the luggage storage rack (usually at the end of the car) or behind the seat. See my previous post about that.

I almost always travel 2nd class, and I've never had a problem with luggage storage. Once I helped my daughter, who was returning from a six-month research trip to Ghana, bring her luggage home by train from Milan, but otherwise, I've never traveled by train with a bag bigger than 21 inches. I usually leave all but the smaller suitcases in the luggage rack. I would never consider chaining them to each other, because they would be a pain to unchain, and other people trying to get at their luggage would be pretty pissed if they had to move two bags that were chained together.

Ok. Thanks all.

I purchased two 1st class tickets. The price was 10E per person more than the 2nd class so I went for it.

My wife has a motion sickness issue and we wanted to make sure she could sit facing the direction we're going. So I chose facing seats. Also, the coach configuration is two seats on one side and one on the other. Needless to say I selected the side with single-seat rows.

It appears from the layout and the photos I saw on SeatGuru that there are two luggage racks on the single-seat side about one-third of the way from each end.

Business and Executive seem to be first-class -because of three across seating

the other two 2nd class.

Friends with a first-class railpass were put in Business class

You asked not to be told to downsize your luggage, but do test your ability to lift your packed 25" suitcases up a few steep stairs. That's been a bigger problem for me, especially in the crush of boarding, than figuring out where to put the luggage once on the train.

http://www.bombardier.com/content/da...tions/original

Executive class is <b>much</b> better than Business class. It doesn't have three-across seating, but individual rotating, reclining seats. I think only eight to a car. Business class is only about 10% better than Standard class, but it costs 35% more. Leaving aside the cost, I would always ride Executive class on longer trips.

Business class is only about 10% better than Standard class>

how is this figured?

with three seats vs four seats in a row can be priceless to me -those solo aisle and window seats only 10% better than two x two 2nd class seats?

Italian Railways charge 35% more because people will pay 35% more - where did you get that 10% better from?

With 1/4 as many seats per same-size train car that means 25% more space for luggage?

Where did you get that 10% better from?

Do the free drink and pastry figure in to that 10%?

Why do many Italians pay 35% more?

On the trip of a lifetime IMO don't pinch pennies - much as you would not on a hotel or restaurant -the extra for regular first class (not super-duper Executive)_is chump change compared to your other costs -

Never could figure out this mantra that cheapest is best on trains - at least for tourists carry around luggage - locals who ride a lot without burdensome luggage who ride a lot I can see but again on the trip of a lifetime first-class will be worth it IME.

25" suitcases are not large at all.

With about 35 pounds in it I have no trouble.

I can lift them into the overhead if there was room.

I would never consider chaining them to each other, because they would be a pain to unchain>

Better to chain them to the luggage rack itself in an out of way place as to not bother others.

I am not suggesting using any trains -especially on trains that do not stop en route and I always get to the exit door first if possible. Bags can be taken by mistake sometimes if they look the same.

I am not suggesting using any chains - that should have been I do suggest using trains!

>>>I purchased two 1st class tickets. The price was 10E per person more than the 2nd class so I went for it.<<<<

Yes, the Frecciargento doesn't have the class selections that some of the other fast trains have.

>>>My wife has a motion sickness issue and we wanted to make sure she could sit facing the direction we're going. So I chose facing seats<<<

You can't tell that ever because many stations are pull-in, back-out. No way to predict which direction you will be facing until you get on the train. Since you booked two seats facing each other, you can switch with your wife if need be. This is a pretty boring train ride with lots of tunnels.

This is 2nd class and I have managed to fit a 25" (may have been 24) case behind the seat by placing it flat and sliding it back in.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ssainterno.jpg

>>>25" suitcases are not large at all.<<<

Most people on this board consider 25" large and many travel for weeks with a 21 or 22.

>>>I can lift them into the overhead if there was room.<<<

A 25" case won't fit in the overhead unless you are on an IC train. They have compartments of 6 seats with luggage racks overhead. Those would hold that big of case.

>>>with three seats vs four seats in a row can be priceless to me -those solo aisle and window seats only 10% better than two x two 2nd class seats?<<<

Even in the solo seats you still have someone sitting across from you (unless you have a travel partner). My last experience the guy didn't shut up the entire trip (yakked on the phone non-stop). Those free drinks aren't always forthcoming either so good luck with that.

Anyway, the OP has a 90 minute trip and will barely get settled before it's time to gather things to get off.

>>>Never could figure out this mantra that cheapest is best on trains - at least for tourists carry around luggage - locals who ride a lot without burdensome luggage who ride a lot I can see but again on the trip of a lifetime first-class will be worth it IME.<<<

Not everyone's goal is to ride around on trains all their trips and scrimp on hotels. Many do the opposite. I would rather spend less on a 90 minute train than on my meals or hotel.

If the lowest price was the issue the OP could have booked with Italo. My trip back to Rome from Florence is costing me €9. Actually get change back from that.

I don't care for the Italo trains much, but for such a short ride a bargain is a bargain. Usually if it's available on Italo, Trenitalia will have a similar rate.

>>>the OP has a 90 minute trip and will barely get settled before it's time to gather things to get off. <<<

Someday someone will reveal the elaborate rituals Fodor's travelers perform or the anxiety they experience that means they are not settled into their train seat within 5 minutes of sitting in it, or are begin worrying an hour in advance about missing their stop (do you stand near the door?), and apparently need hours to check into and out of hotels.

I have taken several dozen trips Business Class trips of less than one hour -- let alone 90 minutes -- on Italian fast trains. I've always been given a drink/snack. I've been perfectly relaxed, including about my luggage. If for some reason I needed a favor from other passengers -- switching seats, for instance -- it worked really well. The bathrooms are clean. The stations are announced well in advance. When the train slows down in anticipation of entering the station for my stop, I have no panic about getting my luggage. I just get it and walk to the door and leave.


The real issue is that some people want to try to make the OP feel bad for some reason, and sneer and be petty. Like he made a "mistake" and he'll be sorry. Why? Who said the OP is "scrimping" on a hotel? Who on earth cares if somebody else prefers to take more clothes in a bigger suitcase when they travel. Humph. Harrumph! You're inferior. I'm superior. What travel does to some people is make them so narrow minded they see nothing but the tunnels.

kybourbon - don't be dismissive of Italo. Without them Frecciarossa prices would be a lot higher!

Even in the solo seats you still have someone sitting across from you (unless you have a travel partner).>

don't have solo seats facing back of solo seats anymore?

Like these in www.seat61.com photos:

https://www.google.com/search?q=1st+...q92wH112bHtqM:

Not everyone's goal is to ride around on trains all their trips and scrimp on hotels. Many do the opposite. I would rather spend less on a 90 minute train than on my meals or hotels>

99.99% of folks here do not have to scimp on either - why wealthy tourists put them in a much more crowded 2nd class to save a handful of euros and spend 200 euros or more on hotels is mind-boggling - point is treat train travel like other things - yes if traveling a lot and local like you with just small bag I'd go 2nd class which is much more comfy on the newest trains than before but still a difference -ah those solo seats and more luggage room are keys for me.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ssainterno.jpg

Give me a break - are you suggesting that this is what a typical 2nd-class Italian train car looks like - no - put folks in every seat - their baggage on loaded luggage racks - why trot out that promo picture and portray it as reality? Who would not ride 2nd class if this is what it is like. Please quit distorting reality - or do you say this photo is what you should expect of 2nd class?

That said many here find 2nd class on newer trains at least perfectly OK but others have said 'never again'. But in any case there is a reason why Italians -many pay more for 1st class - are they throwing their euros away? Are they dumb? This is what you claim it seems.

2nd class fine- 1st class finer. Take it from Man in Seat 61 who once said here about Italian trains "I too am an aficionado of 1st class." Is Man dumb?

>>>Who said the OP is "scrimping" on a hotel? <<<

No one. I was adressing PQ as he always posts 1st class trains are the way to go (because he buys 1st class passes and has a thing for riding trains) yet posts he stays in hostels, etc.

>>> But in any case there is a reason why Italians -many pay more for 1st class - are they throwing their euros away? Are they dumb? This is what you claim it seems.<<<

Another of your mantras, yet I don't find it the case. In fact, I find business class (aka 1st class) often empty (whether on Italo or Trenitalia).

>>>kybourbon - don't be dismissive of Italo. Without them Frecciarossa prices would be a lot higher!<<

Yes, I do think they help keep Trenitalia prices in check, but I just don't care for their trains. Less seats with tables and less service. More of a bare bones. I do find I can often save a few euro on walk-up price over Trenilalia, but it's generally only a couple of euro.

>>>don't have solo seats facing back of solo seats anymore?<<<

Your picture is not even an Italian train so I don't know why you would even post it. The Trenitalia Italian fast trains have mostly seats facing seats with a table to share. At the ends of the car (often next to the stinky bathrooms),the last couple of seats similar to airlines seats with a small drop-down tray instead of a table. Italo business class (at least on the trains I've been on) has more of the drop-down tray type and less tables. You don't have the surface space to do as much on the drop-downs plus you have to put it up if you get up for anything. You don't have to do that with tables.

No one. I was adressing PQ as he always posts 1st class trains are the way to go (because he buys 1st class passes and has a thing for riding trains) yet posts he stays in hostels, etc.>

I have not stayed in a hostel for maybe 35 years - where do you get that stuff from?

In fact, I find business class (aka 1st class) often empty (whether on Italo or Trenitalia).>

Ah the great great reason I love first class - I always seem to be able to put my bag on a nearby unoccupied seat-

Your picture is not even an Italian train so I don't know why you would even post it.>

Right but I meant to post this picture of an Italo train:

https://www.google.com/search?q=ital...Rg3fhgBFxRMcM:

does it not have many single solo seats?

Anyway if you want lots of empty seats to spread out on and have your bags near you go first class.

FWIW, I ride European trains very, very often. I never go 1st Class. The very minimal difference between 1st and 2nd Class is hardly noticeable to me. That said, we never have anything larger than a 21" rollaboard and a handbag each, so we can easily handle our luggage ourselves.I don't need to "spread out" and I don't need help with my luggage. And I have never chained anything on a train and never would. YMMV.

Yes YMMV!

Still can't fathom why any European would pay more for first class or even why there is a first class if the difference is minimal - but it is subjective -to some it is others not.

I think it does make a difference if carrying lots of luggage and those solo seats to me are a huge difference but again not to others maybe.

Boy!!!! I haven't visited the site for a couple of days.

This is not the trip of our lives. We've been on many trips and traveled by train many times.

When we started to travel we were young with two small children. Now we are in our early-mid seventies and each trip finds us upping our level of travel somewhat.

Our hotels are nicer for sure. This time we decided to travel business class going in the hope of getting some decent sleep and being fresh upon arrival. We'll see.

However, we still try to not throw out our money. We want something of value to us in return.

Part of our plan is to go on a day trip. No luggage, short trip - 2nd class. No problem.

Thanks for the responses. They were definitely a help.

"Still can't fathom why any European would pay more for first class or even why there is a first class if the difference is minimal - but it is subjective -to some it is others not."

Not everybody cares about the price difference. If you need to work the extra room is a positive. If you book late you might not find anything else. Especially if you're in a group and want to sit together.

I rode 1st class today on a Frecciabianca train to Rome. The economy tickets were sold out in 2nd class, so the price was about the same. I have nothing against people riding in 1st class. I just want people to have an accurate description of the difference between the classes.

First of all, as I said above, there is no extra leg room in 1st class, or Business class, and only a little extra seat width.

The free snack on Frecciarossa trains is only a beverage and a tiny pack of peanuts, no pastry. On short rides I've never been offered anything. The last time I got a free snack, a train employee walked quickly down the aisle with a cart, not offering anything, or announcing anything. I just happened to look up from my book, or I would have missed her. There is no free snack on Frecciargento or Frecciabianca trains.

There were seven people in our car, at its maximum occupancy, and three of them were us.

In fact, few Italians ride 1st class. There were six 2nd class cars on our train and one 1st class car, with seven people in it. The newest model of Frecciarossa train has about half the number of Business seats as the previous model, and Executive class no longer even has a full car;on the new Frecciarossa 1000 trains, it is in half the lounge car.

Palenq constantly misrepresents Italian trains. I don't think he's been on one lately. I've been on 1st-class trains in other European countries that really were significantly different from 2nd class, but that's not the case in Italy.

What Italo now calls the comfort class are older first class cars. They're newer then most airplanes.

First of all, as I said above, there is no extra leg room in 1st class, or Business class, and only a little extra seat width.>

Why not tell all the benefits of first class - mainly those single row of seats - aisle and window both - bvlenci never even mentions when describing differences between classes and that is the major difference and why I love them. That said I travel on a budget and only go first class because I usually have a first-class railpass for all of Europe. If I was paying out of pocket I'd go third-class if possible or 4th!

Granted Italian trains are better than ever but it is subjective- not sure why bvlenci constantly misrepresents first class benefits- never acknowledging those solo seats- which give you more than just a few inches of seat size and more leg room by not having someone next to you.

All I am saying there is a significant difference - whether it is worth it or not each person has to determine.