Italian speakers please help!
 

How do you pronounce "bruschetta"? Is it brewsketta or brewshetta?

I took an Italian class and thought it should be a hard ch like in Brunelleschi, chiuso and chiavo(a k sound), but everyone in restaurants says brewshetta, like a soft sh sound. Which should it be?

Hi Barb in Ga,
I am glad you asked this question because as a speaker of Italian it drives me nuts how almost everyone in the US (including almost everyone who works at Italian restaurants) mispronounces that word. You are SO RIGHT that the CH in Italian is pronounced as a K and it is ALWAYS that way. This is the beauty of Italian. Once ou know the rules of pronounciation, you know how to pronounce ANY Italian word that you look at, even if you've never heard it spoken before.

The answer is definitely BREWSKETTA. I very much relate to the fact that you're always hearing it pronounced with that SHETTA sound here in the US. American simply are not getting it right.

Believe me once you get to Italy you won't be plauged with hearing that dreaded SHETTA anymore!!!!

You are right of course: brou-sket'-ta.

Here in Canada we have a lovely Bush appointee, a former New Eng Governor (Mass??), as US Ambassador.

His name is Cellucci and he calls himself Sel-loo-chi.

I'm like "Huh?" -- Half anglo-pronunciation (Sel instead of Chel) and half Italian (looch-chi for the written -lucci)

I persist in referring to him, when refer I must, as Mr. Chel-looch-chi.

Or Mr. Sel-loo-see

Hi Barb, as the other posters have said "you are right and they are wrong". Isn't that a great feeling? LOL.

Tedgage, I have always cringed over how ethnic Italians let their names be pronounced incorrectly. Several have said to me over the years that they finally gave up. They got so tired of correcting people and then hearing "oh I can't pronounce THAT". So their proud family name becomes butchered.

In my family there were some hard to pronounce European surnames but thank goodness everyone was persistent enough to correct, correct, correct until finally everyone pronounced their names correctly.

It is the only polite thing to do, to ask if you don't know the pronounciation and then use it IMHO.

Barb: I can count on one finger of one hand the times I've heard that word pronounced correctly in American restaurants. HOWEVER, I was in London several months ago, and they misprounced it there just like here-so it appears to be a world-wide problem!

LoveItaly gets my congratulations. In this household, alas, we have stopped struggling.

My partner bears the proud Scottish name of Beattie.

The French read Beattie and say "Betty". So, when in France, he now capitulates and introduces himself as Monsieur Betty.

And they say: "Oh, like Wo-rhen Betty!"

tedgale, thanks but it was due to stubborn grandparents. And thank God for them. The joke on me was I had a very easy to pronounce Scottish maiden name. But also a lot of Portgugese in the area I grew up in had the same last name. Whether it had been modified when they came here or not I have no idea. But I use to get hounded constantly by all the Portgugese as to why I wouldn't "admit" I was Portgugese. They would not believe my name was not only Scot but a clan. I even a few times brought a few home to dinner just to prove to them I was telling the truth. Funny now, but not then. Plus I had very very thick dark course wavy hair. Didn't help my cause any, believe me.

I can understand your partner just "giving up" in France. Sometimes it is not worth the time and trouble.
Ah life, just full of small joys and frustrations.

LoveItaly, what's your maiden name? (if you wrote it, I've lost it)

OK,

So how does one pronounce "proscciuto"?

(Is it spelled prosciuto?)

Is bischotti Bis KA tee or Bis KO tee?

Is Medici M' dee chee or Med i chee?

((I))

The PO in Positano is pronounced as in Edgar Allen Poe by the people who live there.

1) pro she u2 (stress u)
2) Bis KO tee (strong stress on KO)
3) Med i chee (equally stressed)

Yes, bruschetta is almost always mispronounced in the UK - very annoying. What I find even more annoying is "a panini", but that battle seems to be lost too.

I can only think of a way to pronounce panini (pa_knee_knee). What's the mispronunciation for it?

One paninO

2 panini

Anyone who spent even a few minutes carefully studying the basics of Italian pronunciation knows that the "che" in bruschetta is pronounced with the hard "c" sound, like "ke" not "she". I actually think it's nice, and a credit to some people's diligent concentration, interest, and memory, that many people who had no reason to pick up more than just a small bit of "travel Italian" learned this "c" rule very well and DO know how to pronounce bruschetta correctly and find it jarring when it is mispronounced by waiters. This comment has come up so many times on other forums, too. (If I can find a particulrly long thread about it I'll post the link.)

What I think is 100s of times worse than the mispronunciation of "bruschetta," though, is people who make a living by marketing Italian foods who nevertheless mangle certain words by saying or even writing "cannoli" or "panini" as if they were singular nouns, and then, EVEN WORSE, by adding an "s" after these plural words to form what they believe is a plural, like "cannolis, paninis"--EEK!. (Even funnier is adding an "s" after spaghetti or ravioli.) You can buy ONE panino or ONE cannolo, or you can buy two or more panini or two or more cannoli. It's understandable that consumers who aren't familiar with Italian and who see the word only in shops and bakeries and delis may pick up this mistake, but there's no excuse when people who hold themselves out as experts at making and selling "authentic" Italian food items for a profit spread such misinformation by using the words totally incorrectly.

oh te- da-ga-le: (in italian; teh-dah-gah-leh), even if the name of the ambassador is not the academically correct italian pronounciation and it just drives you nuts, the really polite thing to do is to use the pronounciation the owner of the name uses, for whatever reason. Just a subtle social grace, if you should ever meet him at some diplomatic event. I know Canadiens are known for their politeness. :)

cmt, yes "paninis" is even worse ! And yet worse again is the addition of a grocer's apostrophe - "panini's" !!! (I have seen this.)

Lobo Mau: A correction on your version of prosciutto (Ira note spelling with double "t") is that it has three syllables and the "i" isn't a separate syllable. Approx. sound of the word, spelled phonetically in English, is:
proSHOOtto

A gigantic thread that started out with bemoaning the mispronunciation of bruschetta: http://forums.about.com/ab-italian/messages?msg=2692.1

This thread is interesting and funny, too, and people who like this sort of topic might enjoy it: http://forums.about.com/ab-italian/messages?msg=1787.1

What about Monticello? Isn't is supposed to be pronounced Monti-CHello?

I've only heard it pronounced
Monti-sello. Which one is correct?

I always READ that more than I HEAR it, and I've always pronounced the last part like the instrument "cello." It's easier to pronounce it as I see it (or as I see it as an Italian word). I hear it so rarely that I don't know what others say.

Thomas Jefferson's home in Charlottesville, Va., uses the correct Italian pronunciation "montiCHello" but in most other American uses, one hears "montiSello."
The familiar Italian words I use as reminders for pronunciation are "Chianti" for CH as K sound, and "ciao" for C as CH sound. Likewise "spaghetti" for the GH as hard G, and "gelato" for the J sound.
SC sounds as SH when it precedes i or e (sci means ski but sounds like she), but as K before a, o, or u. SCH gives the K sound before i and e.
With thes rules in memory, just about any Italina word can be pronounced almost correctly.

thanks cmt

Making absolutely CERTAIN that nobody, but NOBODY ever mis-pronounces the word "bruschetta" again sounds like one of those Miss America pageant platforms...

P.S. Thomas Jefferson knew Italian, so it makes sense if his Monticello is still pronounced in the usual Italian way.

How about the double consonants:
annuale pronounced an-nuale,
dottore prounced dot-tore
cattedrale pronounced cat-tedrale
caffe prounced caf-fe
cappello prounced cap-pello
It's real tricky to learn how to prounounce those double consonants.

Also, s is prounced z, as in passano.

Double s, as in passano, is not pronounced z. An s between two two vowels, as in paesano, is pronounced z. So is an s before a consonant at the beginning of a word, such as sbaglio.

But really, in the scheme of things, I'm not sure I can get any more indignant about this than about when an Italian doesn't pronounce an initial h, as in hungry. For one thing, while I've got a pretty good grip on Italian pronunciation, I'm sure I've massacred Czech and Hungarian, for instance.

Thanks KT for clearing the s/z thing up. I will now be a better Italian studente.

No, the double "s" in "passano," which means "they pass" or "they go by" or "they go past" is NOT pronounced at all like a "z". It's a sibilant "s" as in the
English "passing," but is very clearly doubled. A single "s" betwenn vowels is generally pronounced more like a "z" (but a little softer), as in "rosa" or "asino."

I just remembered a wonderful and entertaining conversation I had with an Italian friend who was visiting here and called to ask about plane tickets to visit his relatives in Cincinati, pronouncing the wordm of course, correctly in Italian!!!

Eek, iamkane, your reply made me realize that I misstated the rule about the initial s+consonant! The s is pronounced like z only in front of some consonants (abaglio, sfida) but not all consonants (studente, scorso).

I'm being an idiot.

First, I meant to write "sbaglio" not "abaglio."
Second, the s in sfida isn't pronounced like a z.

If I can get this correct this time, the initial s is pronounced like a z only when follwed by a b, d, hard g, l, m, n, r or v (except in some words borrowed from other languages). But don't quote me on that.

Anyway, as I said, I don't get too excited about these things in others' pronunciations, I worry more about my own.

And then there was my friend's Italian grandma who drank gingerale, pronounced jin-jer-all-ay.

See what you've started, Barb? All that guilt in those of who are erstwhile Italian students about how much we've forgotten! (but I'm very glad you brought up the bruschetta issue-I swear, that's bothered me for YEARS!)

KT, I guess today is for "fessing up." I wrote my message quickly as we were closing the office because of a snow storm.

I am not a studente. Sono una studentessa!

That's why they put erasers on pencils.

No Italian lesson tonight. The temperature's dropping, and the roads are still messy.

The rule about double consonants is easy. As I am Kane says, it does make a difference in pronunication.

The syllable ALWAYS divides between the doubled consonants, hence:
Pro-sciut-to
can-no-li
cap-pel-lo
pas-sa-no

Note that wherever possible the syllable divides rigth after the vowel, as with the second syllables of:

pas-sa-no; can-no-li

A ca-pel-lo is a hair; a cap-pel-lo is a cape.

The difference is audible.

SC followed by e or i is "shh"; SC followed by a, o, u is "sk":

sciopero, prosciutto = shh
scala, scopo, scusare = sk

I think it has been noted before, but the double consonant pronounciation is particularly important when ordering penne.

...or discussing somebody's age (e.g., "Quanti anni ha?").

Mamma mia! I'm trying to improve my Italian and my head is spinning!! Actually this thread has been very educational and has pointed out some very obvious errors. I agree with you cmt, the "experts" should get it straight! My ancestors would be very proud of you for taking them to task!!

Panini and cannoli, indeed.

But wouldn't it sound weird to hear somebody say "Those spaghetti were delicious"?