IT CAN BE DONE!!
 

O.K about two months ago I posted a message with the title "Can it be done?" Basically, I got slammed by everyone. I was trying to fit almost all of europe into a three week jaunt. On our Honeymoon at that! I was simply trying to do way to much. I have drastically reduced my itenerary thanks to all at fodors, yet, I still have a pretty agressive schedule. Let me know if this sounds like a dream or a nightmare to you.
Fly out of Chicago on june 2nd. Arrive London June 3rd early am. Night of 3,4,5 in London. Take chunnel to Paris. Night of 6,7,8 in Paris. Renting a Car for the rest of the trip. We love to road trip. There are so many small towns and villages that can only be visited by car. We will drive the 5 hours to Amsterdam. Night of the 9,10th in Amsterdam. We will then drive the 5-7 hours to Wethiem, Germany. I was stationed here for two years and it is the starting point for the romtischer road. Night of the 11,12th in Werhiem. We will take the romatischer road at leasure staying one night a city of our choice, most likely augsburg, the 13th. Night of the 14,15th in Munich. Five hour trip to Venice. Night of 16,17,in Venice. Across to Pisa Night of 18th,19,20,21st. Final drive to Rome 22,23 and 24th fly out on 25th from Rome.
Total budget $12,000. Driving hours 22.
Big cities London, Paris, Amsterdam, Munich,Venice,Tuscanny,Rome.
Opinions!!!

Would you be interested in a gasthaus near Lauda Konigshofen as an alternative to Augsburg?

Great trip!

Got any room in the trunk of that car of yours? I don't eat much! :)

Happy honeymoon!

easytraveler

You didn't get slammed by everyone on this board. From memory, at least two of us couldn't see what all the fuss was about. It was the kind of itinerary hundreds of thousands of northern Europeans do every summer.

The only criticisms I'd make are:
- only American tourists talk about the "Chunnel": the English for what you're doing is "Eurostar". If you were driving it'd be "the Tunnel"
- you seem to be assuming you'll be driving at American speeds. Keeping up with the locals will cut your driving time down further.

any reason not to run this by your wife-to-be?

Sounds great, but why so much time in Pisa? Not much there beyond the Tower... I would spend more time in Venice, especially on your honeymoon, or stay in Florence instead of Pisa.
Congratulations and good luck!

I would cut Pisa unless seeing that tower has been your life-long dream and remain in Venice for a truly romantic portion of your trip. (You'll need extra cash if you decide to do this.) Or, you can add a day or two to Rome...or, really stay in Tuscany and base yourself near Florence, Siena, or Montepulciano instead.

I plan my driving time on U.S. speed limits and always make better time in Europe. I love driving fast.

Yes, I agree that too much time is being spent in Pisa--I wouldn't spend more than 1 night there. Better to add nights to Rome or Venice (less packing and unpacking) or in a better Tuscan town (I think Siena is the town of choice on this board).

But it all still sounds lovely. This is just some fine-tuning.

Agree that Florence would be a better place to stay than Pisa. Pisa can pretty much be done in a half day trip from Florence. Aside from that your trip sounds a lot like one we did when we were very young. A fantastic trip which, most of all, gave us the wanderlust and the encouragement to go back when we could stay longer. Good luck!

Still doesn't sound lik much fun too me. I have been to all of the places you have mentioned but it took me 5 trips equally about 60 days. That being said, more time in Venice &/or Florence. As mentioned prior Pisa ??? Make sure you know where you are going to put your car while in Venice. For time constraints I would leave Amsterdam out as well. It certainly doen't fit well w/the rest of your trip. Instead perhaps Maastricht &/or the Mosel River area ?

The bride to be will be stressed planning for the wedding. You'll get stressed trying to help her. By the time the wedding rolls around, the idea of taking a cruise will appeal to both of you.

However, Europe is a wonderful place to honeymoon. I wouldn't want to travel as much as you are doing, but to each his/her own.

I would make a slight change and go from London to Amsterdam to Paris then pick up the car. You don't want a car in Amsterdam.

flanneruk is correct. He and one other chap were very gracious and helpful. I had Berlin and Spain in this plan and cut both of them out thanks to thier suggestions.
What about this going into amsterdam first and then on to paris thus having the car in paris as oppossed to amsterdam..I am totally open to this. The cost of EUROSTAR to Paris one way is around $87.00 what price am I looking for to get to Amsterdam. And is driving from paris to amsterdam the same distance as amsterdam to paris..Yes that was a joke..I would have to look at the distance from paris to wertheim as oppossed to amsterdam to wetheim. I will look into this. Regarding Pisa. I was going to use either Pisa or Florence as a base for tuscanny. The only cities I will have actual reservations in are London and Rome all other cities will be calling ahead from the last city we were in. So i am totally open to better cities in the tuscany area.
I am also fighting one last thing. Open jaw or in and out of london. Open jaw will save me time but not money the best price I have gotten from chicago to london then from rome to chicago was 870 per person. chicago to london london to chicago best price 450 per person. Would require Rome to london train ride at the end then a plane topper back stateside. Opinions.

I agree with ncgrrl. After my wedding, I was still having nightmares with seating charts and song selections. We kind of expected to be exhausted, so we took a relaxing trip to Maui and tried to recover from all the stress.
If we had your budget, we would have gone to Bora Bora and gotten an overwater bungalow.
To me, the amount of driving does not sound fun, but the locations do sound good. But couldn't you take different trips for each of those major cities for half of the price? Maybe not. I would feel overwhelmed, but you are probably more adventurous and energetic than myself.

ncgrrl,
There are two things that set my wife off 1) when I threaten to buy a big screen TV, 2)the mere suggestion of going on a cruise. We've been married for 31 years, she keeps saying we're too young to have to settle for a cruise. Hey they're young, they're in love. I say go for it!
JoeG

Hi Michael,

Still more traveling than I would do, but much better.

For your travel beyond Venice, why not spend the time driving through Tuscany, seeing Florence for a day and night and then dropping the car in Orvieto? It is then an hour by train to Rome.

You might want to look for cheap air fares from Rome to London rather than the train.

I would skip Pisa.

How important is Amsterdam?

www.viamichelin.com says that it is 414 mi from Paris to Wertheim and takes 6:15 hr. About $25 in tolls.

problem with going from london then train to amsterdam as oppossed to paris. I am going to wertheim after these cities and it is a full one hour Longer from Paris than from amsterdam.

Each time I post this I always get somebody asking what does she think?? Like I am not including my soon to be wife in these decision.. We have been together six years, we live together, work together and play together.. She is totally involved in all of my decisions but we also delegate. She is the one that wants to do europe, I would just as well sit my rear on some beach in greece for three weeks..I am the one tasked with making sure this thing goes as well as possible.

If you drive to Amsterdam in 5 hours, you won't be seeing too many small villages. This is just an example of a possible contradiction between the amount of time you allocate to travel and what you think you will see during that travel time. If you want a base in Tuscany, Siena might be better than either Pisa or Florence. From what I hear, Florence is a traffic nightmare and might represent a considerable amount of loss time each time to drive out of the city. I think that for car touring a smaller city as a base is better than a larger one.

For us the getting there is sometimes the most enjoyable part of our trips. We are taking a full month off from work..We plan to take our time from city to city..I simply put down the estimated driving time to give an overall idea of the actual road time. I tried to make no distance longer than 5 hours, just so we could enjoy the full day traveling..

JoeG I had a good laugh at that. I'm single own a 20" tv and have been on a cruise (well, it was the only way to see SE Alaska).

After my brother's wedding (by the way, he bought the giant tv before the marriage) I thought <u><i>I</i></u> would need a vacation. Or end up in prison after killing one of my SIL's sisters.

Michaelpearce, I wouldn't worry about 1 hour driving difference. Good luck with married life!

You know, this does seem quite doable to me, my husband and I rarely spend more then 3 nights in a single location, though we often make lists of things to see at a later date and return years later. I agree with all others, Pisa is kinda blah.. Venice is magical, particularly for a honeymoon. Instead of Pisa, you might try for Tuscany and Florence. Have a great honeymoon.

Re: Driving

Florence is a piece of cake compared to Rome or Paris and, as long as you have balls, the adventure of driving in Europe can't be beat, especially when shared. For Florence, I would avoid the city-center with a car since many streets are closed to traffic. Same with Rome. (Although getting lost or in a jam is part of the fun.) There are well-known garages on the outskirts of Florence that are very convenient for departing the city into surrounding Tuscany. Florence is so small, you can walk almost anywhere. It really has a village feel. For luggage transport, hail a cab. This goes for Siena, too.

It's nice to see a guy working so hard to please his woman. Imagine the rewards when you pull this off with terrific aplomb. Greece is only good for a tan line and some pretty pictures. Save that for a lazy anniversary.

For cheap air travel from Italy to England, check easyjet.com and ryanair.com.
Good luck!
Boots

Out of curiousty and boredom at work I checked out your previous post and I dont think you got flamed, you asked a question of seasoned Fodorites and got alot of answers.

I respectfully think you are over-doing it to compensate for the fact that you would like to just sit on a beach on your honeymoon. Since you have already lived together for six years, relaaaaaax, and take a calmer driving trip thoughout Europe.

I am sure you will be returning for anniversaries, etc. so why try to pack half of Europe into three weeks?

Pick out some key cities and drive between them with enough time to stop on a whim and take romantic picnic lunches, etc.

Now, I am through with my armchair advice, but my intentions are good.

Have a happy trip Mr. and Mrs. Pearce.

Now that I hear how long (and well) you two have been together a trip of this magnitude doesn't seem so daunting. It is more a matter of preference. I loved the &quot;a different night-a different town&quot; travel plan, but now older (and wiser?), we stay put longer at a time.

I can't see the benefit of a car in either &Aring;msterdam or Paris, personally. If your heart is really set on seeing Amsterdam, I'd train between the two...hassle-free and more restful to start with. I'd take a look at what is between Amsterdam and Wetheim and Paris and Wetheim that I was interested in. Maybe that would help decide where to start out from in the car.

Like many others, Pisa just wasn't that big a deal for us.

Lastly, if your love is the one interested in this kind of trip and you'd be just as happy on a beach for three weeks, how did YOU end up being the trip planner??! Just kidding, actually, the more you two can plan together, the more fun and the less surprises/disappointments there will be during the trip.

Sounds like a lot of fun to me; can hardly wait for the trip report!

My husband and I drove through Eruope a few years ago. We stopped at Brugge, stayed in a wonderful B&amp;B, before heading to Amsterdam. We stayed in just outside the wall in Siena and made day trips to Florence and Pisa. Brugge and Siena are both wonderful, great places to stop.

Too aggressive. Still too many cities and too much ground covered. Not enough time in London, Paris, Venice or Rome. Too much time in Pisa.

Suggestion: Cut out Wethiem, Rome, Tuscany and Pisa. Just go to London, Amsterdam, Paris, Munich and Venice. Consider going via train - car not needed. Slow down. Relax. Don't make this trip a blur and add stress where none is needed.

Spend a week in Paris for romance and a week in London for the fish and chips and a pint. Estimated budget is around $4,000 for the two of you. Put the remaining $8,000 in a mutual fund or equivalent and in 40 years at 12% you would have $750K's (ignoring taxes) which would allow you to cruise around the world at your leisure and still have enough money left over to buy a Porsche for each of the grandkids.

I know what you mean about the drive between places is just as nice as being at your destination.
One year I drove around France for about a month without reservations and just jumped from town to town every day after calling a hotel for the night while I was at lunch.

It was alot of fun and I would like to do it again sometime, it is a free-wheeling type of vacation.

But, you are going to have reservations made far in advance and will have these deadlines to meet. This will mean that you won't have much time if any to stop and have romantic picnics, linger at a winerie or cafe, etc.

I would strongly suggest cutting way back on your destinations or just thrown all reservations out and blow around with the wind. Alot of advice you asked for is coming from many people who are very experienced travelers, so heed their advice, IMHO.

Natalia has a great point. From an UNexperienced traveler, the first time you to go Europe you have to figure out how to use the phone, how to read the road signs (especially at 100mph), how to read the train or bus schedule, how to use the electrical outlets, you're dealing with a different currency (although it seems simplified with the Euro) and countless other obstacles that take up time and cause stress, especially when you're on a tight schedule. It's unrealistic to learn conversational Dutch, French, German, and Italian, before you go, and English will only get you so far. And don't forget jet lag--you're pretty much useless the first day or so. Yes, you'll cover a lot of ground with your itinerary, but is that the main focus of your honeymoon? Good luck with whatever you decide and congratulations!

i would stay longer in venice and shorter in pisa. (also, why not base your stay in Lucca instead of Pisa? did you want to see Liguria or something?)

Do Paris before Amsterdam. You DO NOT WANT A CAR in Paris. Trust me. Just driving in to Paris to dump a car after 2 weeks driving around France nearly ended our 27 year marriage (and we'd been together for 4 years before that!) I think I would dump the Pisa/Tuscany portion of your trip and concentrate on Venice (where you could drop your car for good) and Rome (an easy train trip.)
Both are elegant and romantic cities and you will really enjoy a chance to luxuriate at the end of a fabulous trip. (Do Tuscany as an anniversary trip!) Congratulations and have a terrific time!

Having re-read your itinerary -- those extra days you would gain from postponing Tuscany for another trip could be designated over some of your travel territory -- you may want a night somewhere between Paris and Amsterdam...and another night on the road in Germany...our since you will be driving through the Dolomites on your way from Munich to Venice a night in the mountains (it is drop dead gorgeous) before you get to Venice.

Oh this is so awesome...
Last Night we booked our airfair..
We will be flying from Chicago to London on June 2nd and we will be returning from Rome back to Chicago on June 25th. That is all that is booked at this moment and the possibillities are so exciting.
Although our first purchase was way over budget already. Is this a sign of things to come?? We had budgeted $1,600.00 for airfare and it ended up costing $1,900.00. Although I joined cheaptickets gold and booked through them so I should get 10% back if I fill out all the forms correctly. These things always seem to make you jump through so many hoops you never get your money back. But we will remain optimistic and and believe that I am getting $190.00 back so my ticket price was $1,710.00.
I know many are wondering if I could have gotten it cheaper.. I thought about going RT Chicago to London and the either a plane from rome to london or train from rome to london. But the cost just didn't outway the hassle.
Did I pay to much?

Michael, my only comment (other than echoing others on dropping Pisa in favor of more time in Venice or basing in Florence or another area in Tuscany) is that I would spend the extra money for an open-jaw ticket. It's worth it for more actual travel/vacation time. Oh, I do have one more suggestion ... not basing yourself with a car in only large cities. The aggrevation of repeatedly driving into and out cities is compounded by the amount of time you lose in traffic, etc.

Have fun finishing up your plans!

Michael,
The air fare ($1900) seems outrageously high. However, it's water over the dam now. Plus - you still have $10,000 for the rest of the trip which seems more than adequate to me.
JoeG

start charging on amex and get those miles!!! trip sounds great!you will get so tired at the end with all the big cities I would have skipped amsterdam and pisa and spent more time chillin in the alps.just my taste.happy honeymoon

You might have an easier time booking more of the hotels in advance. That way you can also pick out inexpensive ones that will be nice. At least I would book in Paris, Munich and Venice. I would also base not in Pisa ...what about getting somewhere near to Florence that might have a pool and pleasant ambience to relax alittle too?

Regarding your air tickets, I hope you are at least getting non stops both ways. I just plugged your dates into the American website and came up with several choices of non stops both ways for a total of $930.40 each with all taxes. And that included that great daytime flight on June 2 to London, rather than a night flight. While your &quot;discount&quot; may get you some money back, I hope you didn't have to suffer inconvenience of plane changes to get those fares.

Regarding my airfare, yes it is non stop Chicago to London -- Rome to Chicago. I am kicking myself that I am not using a Credit Card that gets airmiles. Oh well water under the bridge.. I knew that tickets, since they were open jaw non stop would be higher, but I just have this feeling that I could have gotten it cheaper..
I am at Lauires parents for Thanksgiving. Her brother just did a three week Honeymoon in Tuscany this last June.. His new wife gave me the low down on where to stay and what to do.. basically she confirmed everything I have heard on this board. Off with Pisa as a base. We will now go directly from Venice to Sienna. With daytrips to pisa, florence, cinque terra and then down to Rome.
I also just got through reading The davinci code so I am on the case for the Grail as well..
We have made the decision that we are going to only book reservations ahead of time for hotels in London, Paris and Rome.. All other cities we are going to make reservations along the rode. I own Nextel stores so i will be using my Nextel oversees.. Hope the damn thing actualy works..Anyone used Nextel overseas??
Since we are not making reservations I am totally open to great little guesthouse recommendations like Lauda Konigshofen that was referred by Tomboy..
Thanks again for all your ideas and opinions. i really thought this was just going to be 3 weeks of fun but theplanning is really a ton of fun as well..

O.k its getting closer so I have to start getting a little more serious about our trip plans. I am looking for advice on two items. ONE - we will book hotels in London, Paris, and Rome only. We do not need expensive places just clean and cheap - around $75.00 per night. Any and all sugeestions welcome. London 3,4,5 Paris 6,7,8 and Rome the 22nd, 23rd, 24th. The other cities we will book as we travel, we will have a car and our phones &quot;NEXTEL&quot; will work over there so we will just call on the road.
SECOND - About the car. I will need to book a car from the 9th to the 22nd. Two weeks with a pick up in paris and a drop off in Rome. I am open to suggestions on this as well??