ISE semester abroad in Paris; any experience?
 

My college student daughter hopes to spend the fall semester in Paris, studying in French university. They give you a choice of sharing an apartment (pricier) or staying with a family either in the city area or the Banlieue, up to 50 min commute.

Does any of you have experience with the living situation involved? Naturally the central area sounds more attractive on the face of it.

yes, sort of -- I've studied at two French univerisities but neither of them gave the choices you have -- they had their own residence halls, both of them (of course you could stay in your own apt, you are an adult, but I wasn't a college student, either).

What university is this? I just wondered as all the universities I know have residence halls and offer that as an option, and it's the one I would prefer as you meet a lot of people that way, and it is usually very close to the school. Of course it would be cheaper than sharing an apt., also.

I've only heard of people staying with families second or third party, and it wasn't positive. Partly because of the commuting, of course, and you aren't really a part of the school and city so much. Also, those families who do that out in the burbs (or anywhere, most likely) are doing it for the money and it is basically just a boarder to them. One person I know who did that said they barely spoke to her, she was just a tenant, basically. Now maybe the program your daughter chose (and I think it would be more useful if you gave the name of where you are talking about, it might help people who knew about it, it certainly can't hurt) has some rigorous standards for those families, but I'd get a lot of details about that situation--what the living situation will be, expected customs, is the family required to do anything other than furnish a room and collect the rent, or what.

Thanks, Christina. Yes, sorry. (Oh, for an edit function.) It's IES, not ISE.
http://tinyurl.com/ydd58cu or iesabroad.org. This is an established program that many US colleges use.

The Sorbonne, Universite de Paris VIII, and Institut Catholique are three of the places where they could study, in French.

Being stuck in the suburbs and/or with incogenial people is what she hopes to avoid, of course. I'd think the money would be pretty big factor for taking strangers into your home.

The city of Paris is building more and more "résidences universitaires" -- there are never enough of them, of course. I do believe that it would be better to look for independent lodgings in Paris rather than staying with a family (and yet I am certain that there are some fantastic families offering this option -- but it is just too much of a lottery).

What price range have you been given? Just for reference, a primitive studio apartment in my neighborhood can be found for 500-600€ a month. So any of the other possibilities should be significantly cheaper than that.

Hi stoke,

the word "banlieue" has bad connotations, as set out in the following article:

http://seacoast.sunderland.ac.uk/~os...1/banlieue.htm

even so, staying with a family is likely to ensure that she gets the most out of her time in Paris. if she is in the city, it is likely that she could meet up with friends/just escape more easily if the family she was with proved uncongenial.

good luck to her,

regard, ann

Hi, k. Thanks.

The price for boarding with a family is included in the (crazy expensive US style, so thank goodness she has a good scholarship) tuition. They give you breakfast daily and three evening meals/week.

The independent apartment option is available for unspecified "additional fee." "A limited number of placements are available in a private apartment building in the 14th arrondissement. You are housed in single or double apartments with private bathrooms and small kitchenettes." per their website, and you're placed with a fellow IES student. I'd think living with a random US student would have its own drawbacks.

The brochure has blurbs from satisfied alums who adored their host families, but of course I'm envisioning the bum lottery ticket possibilities. The safest option would be to have her come home and keep her mama company, but that doesn't really seem fair.

Hi, Ann!

Eeek. Oh, great. "Banlieue-ghetto, Le Bronx à Paris." That settles it; I'll have to go chaperone her myself.

I'm afraid they don't let you say "If it's in the 4th or 7th you got yourself a deal." Presumably they vet the homes? (she typed hopefully) I'd think the home placement would be most likely to give you the French experience, as long as it's not something out of a gothic novel.

At least 80% of the suburbs around Paris are totally reputable, and I can assure you that they would never put anybody in one of the more questionable suburbs.

Some of the suburbs are richer than Paris per capita.

and I can assure you that they would never put anybody in one of the more questionable suburbs>>

how, exactly?

Mostly looking for a couple of weeks' worth of justification for myself to settle her in, kerouac. I'm more concerned about a long dreary commute and her being in a backwater. They wouldn't place them with someone who needs the money to finance a crack habit, probably.

My daughter did a similar program in Paris last year. Despite the extra cost, we opted for an apartment with other students attending her school, and it worked out very well. She was in the 13th, if that's helpful. She says that many of the students who lived with families were disappointed, since the families considered it a simple financial arrangement, and didn't have the time- or in some cases the inclination- to be very helpful or friendly.

Our daughter gained a lot of invaluable experience from llving and coping on her own in Paris. I'd highly recommend going the apartment route, if you can.

Ann, the bulk of American kids doing this would be on the pampered white kid end of the spectrum, and some of their parents are paying $50,000/year to the home colleges even during this semester, and have their lawyers on speed dial.

Thanks, Weadles!

Anyone who's dealt with IES? Thanks, all.

Our DD spent last year in Paris on a junior-year-abroad program through her US university.

She opted for finding her own apartment to share. She found a great one to share with two French twenty-somethings - they were not students, but young working professionals. She helped them improve their (rudimentary) English while they returned the favor for to help her improve her French. It also had the added bonus of giving her an instant French social life with young French people close to her own age. Priceless.

As I remember her share of the rent/utilities/food was somewhere around 500 - 550 Euro. So her room and board was actually less than her dorm room board at her state university in California.

She found the apartment listed on ... can't remember exactly. I can ask her if you'd like to know. Her university provided a place for students to stay for about a month out at Cite Universitaire while they looked for living situations. I was very nervous about her answering ads and rooming with unknown people, but it all worked out extremely well for her. She absolutely did not want to room with/ hang out a lot with other Americans as she felt it would interfere with her improving her French.

Her apartment was in the 3rd just steps from the Place de la Republique. She came to value very much how central the apartment was and the fact that it was at a metro hub. For instance, when she was out socializing at night, she did not have to walk lonely semi-deserted blocks by herself from the metro to her apartment - she was in a very public, well-populated place at all times.

She said that many of her fellow US students ended up being quite disappointed in their family stays either because the families were very aloof and, to American sensibilities, seemed almost unfriendly, and/or the public transportation system was not convenient from where they were.

In addition to her university classes, DD had a job in a program administered by the French government teaching English in a Paris high school out in the suburbs. It was a loooong commute - about 50 minutes - and not a fun one. SHe hated it. The commute, not the job. She did it 3 or 4 days a week - frankly, she would have hated it even more if she had been living in those suburbs and had to do that commute to get back and forth to a social life and the action in the city.

I understand the fears and trepidations you allude to, and the urge to go chaperone her yourself, but it was an amazing maturing experience for our DD. If you can make it on your own in Paris, especially as a non-native, at the age of 21 ... well you've accomplished something! She really shows the effects of that accomplishment.

Wonderful, NorCalif.

If it's not too much trouble to get that apartment listing place, I'd appreciate it. She'd only be there for fall semester, but it still seems possible to find something. We'd just eat the cost, then. A good living situation would have to make all the difference.

(The chaperone part was wishful thinking type jest. Paris semesters unfortunately didn't figure in my college experience, so the universe still owes me.)

Ann, the bulk of American kids doing this would be on the pampered white kid end of the spectrum, and some of their parents are paying $50,000/year to the home colleges even during this semester, and have their lawyers on speed dial.>>

would your DD like her own in-house lawyer? for a reasonable fee and expenses I'm sure i could nip over to Paris to help out!

Ann, I had kind of hoped that if any nipping over were needed, I'd be the nipper. Not that I'd be much help in front of a magistrate. Well, all right. Let's put you on retainer and set you up with an expense account.

ooh, goody.

do the xxs stretch to lunch at the Georges V?

Can you see if she can live at Cite Universite? It's the housing for students at many of the Paris Universities. There are no classroom buildings there, it's all dorms and it's very nice. Its in the 14th. My daughter did that. Her classes were all in the 5th. She met many other students from all over the world, not just Americans. Oh and by the way, she went to the state univ, not a $50,000 a year private school as someone above suggested. So did a lot of the people she met there. She is still friends with some of them.

She has since graduated and is now back in Paris working as an English teaching assistant in a French high school. She has an apartment now and pays 385€ a month. She shares it with two other (French) people. It's in the 18th. It's about the cheapest rent of all her friends (she's met up with a whole lot of other 20 somethings living in Paris, virtually all of whom did study abroad there while in college). But she didn't have a lot of trouble finding an apartment when she got there, took her a couple of weeks to find this one. So there are affordable short term apartment rentals in central Paris. A couple of her current friends live out in the burbs and complain about the long commute, not being able to go home in the middle of the day, or between work and an evening activity, etc. because of the commute. A couple of them are au pairs so they live in nice(er) central Paris apartments but they have to babysit a certain number of hours a week. That could be another options. My daughter also babysits (3 afternoons a week) to supplement the meager salary she earns, but she choose to keep that and her living arrangement separate.

Ann, I certainly wouldn't want our lawyer to eat less well than everyone else's, but spending more on lunch than her month's rent might be in questionable taste. So maybe only one apéritif.

Isabel, thanks so much. This is all encouraging. We'll see about Cité Universitaire, but it looks wonderful. With the IES program I think you take what you get or strike out at your own effort and expense elsewhere.

Slightly off topic, but how difficult legally is it for your daughter to stay and be employed there as an American, non EU citizen?

ok Stoke, here's my choice for my entree:

<< White Truffle From Alba Region, Veal Carpaccio, Raw Chestnuts, Old Parmesan Cheese, Lightly Whipped Potatoe Purée, "Salt and Pepper" Egg Yolk, Ginger Broth, Sweet Onion Ravioli >>

regrettably the menu doesn't give prices. I suppose that if you have to ask, you can't afford it.

Last time I was there, the potatoes weren't whipped exactly to my liking. The kitchen staff responsible was fired as a result, of course, so order with confidence.

stokebailey - my daughter didn't "stay", she came home, finished college, worked for a couple of years. Then she applied to the program (French government) that places English speakers in the French schools as teaching assistants. They are mostly from the US or Britain but I think any English speakers, who also speak French of course, can apply. I believe you must be a college graduate. For most of the people she knows who are doing it, they are there just for one academic year. At least a few have managed to stay longer but I'm not sure how they did this. Her Visa is just for this program. From what I know there are a number of jobs/programs that allow recent college grads to live over there. For most of them you need to be under 26, but if you want to live in Europe for a few years that's the time to do it. After that it gets more difficult, as many threads on this board attest to.

Thanks Isabel. I assumed it was just her junior year, and she had returned to live there for awhile. What a great experience. Nice for you that it's temporary.

hi Stoke,

i guess I'll just have to settle for Guy Savoy then.

the langoustines and "coleur de caviar" sound pretty good.

or the tasting menu at just €275 pp.

one snag - all the table have to take it. fancy coming with me so we can be "all the table"? we'll take your DD a daggoy bag.

I've seen the applications available for those English teaching assistants, I believe they are posted on the French embassy website. They have a certain number of slots allocated to Americans, I don't know about other countries. You have to be aged 20-30 and proficient in French. Actually, you don't have to be a graduate, it says.

This is the page with the info
http://www.ambafrance-us.org/spip.php?article375

Stoke - sorry it's taken me a few days to get back to you about the apartment site. The website DD used to find her apartment to share in Paris was appartager.com

It sounds like the teaching assistant program several of you are talking about is the one DD did last year. She was in her junior year in university and did it part-time (I think about 15 hours a week) while she was a full-time student. So, no, she did not have to be a college graduate. There were personal interviews, essays, etc., held here in the States, where she had to demonstrate her proficiency in French before she got the job.

Hi, Ann. We certainly don't want our lawyer eating alone in Paris. Table for two, please, and send the bill to my accountant.

Christina, Thanks so much for that embassy link. That seems to open up possibilities. Oh, to be paid to use your French in actual France, even if just enough to live on.

NorCalif, great appartager link. I love the one with Sylvain where the bed lowers electrically from the ceiling. Also great to hear that a student can apply for those jobs, and help pay for the extra cost of being in the vital center of things.

We really appreciate all your help. This makes it seem possible. My daughter said the other day she'd rather go with the Rennes study option than be stuck out in the banlieue.

My crack about the $50,000 tuition per annum was meant to say that IES would be likely to err on the side of safe but boring, with well-heeled parents breathing down their liability-conscious necks.

Yes, DD sure appreciated her salary over there! She loved teaching the kids although it was a little bit of an experience to be thrown into teaching classes of kids just 2 years younger than she was, especially as she had no "classroom management" or teaching experience. She was alone with different classes ranging from 4 to 20 kids. It wasn't the French language that was the biggest challenge, needless to say.

She had her first taste of what it would be like trying to establish control over the classroom when, on her first day, a teacher introduced her to a class, and had DD tell them a little bit about her background, where she was from, etc. DD then asked them if they had any questions. One of the boys called out, "Yes. What's your phone number?" Ah teen-aged boys: the same the world over!

BTW, I forgot to say that as DH and I were living in Amsterdam last year while DD was in Paris, and just 4 hours away by train, I found it absolutely necessary to go help her out, just by my presence, quite often! Yes, yes, dedicated parenthood is such a burden at times, but I nobly rose to the occasion. So I personally think you would be abdicating your parental responsibility if you didn't go over there to "help" your DD as often as possible. I'm just saying.

hi Stoke,

at the risk of forgoing our lunch a Paris, Rennes would be a great place i think.

lots of young people but in a town that is small enough for her to feel "at home".

yours with regret,

ann

Hello,
i'm not american but i spent a semester studying in Paris some years ago.
If you can, try to arrange for your daughter to stay in the Cite Universitaire in the 14th, as suggested above. I stayed there in my country dorm, and it was very beautiful, with well cared gardens and very different buildings for each dorm (some very interesting), we could either eat in our communal kitchens our in the main building with people from all over the world, there were sports facilities, and in most nights we went to other dorms to see a movie, a play, or to a party. It was a culturally fulfilled time! Can you tell i loved it?!
Most of my classes were in an Institute in the Banlieue and i can tell you, it was always a pain to commute there. I think i really would've lost a lot staying outside of Paris since the six months passed in a blink :)

Yes, NorCalif. That's us mothers: self-sacrificing to a fault!

Ann, we'll always have Paris. Good to hear that about Rennes.

Hi sms. Your experience sounds so fun. Thank you. Did you arrange your own stay there?

Hello again, my stay was arranged by the Erasmus interchange program between european universities. It is the official EU program for undergraduates, but there were people there doing their doctorate programs, and not only portuguese citizens in our dorm.
Take a look at the offitial Cite Universitaire site www.ciup.fr/

Hi, sms6778,

Thanks so much.

Yes, the Cité Universitaire is superb -- at least most of it. Since each country manages and keeps up its own building there have been times when some of them have fallen more or less into total ruin. I think the Cambodian pavilion was unliveable for a certain number of years.

tell me about it, having spent time in the Maison de l'Inde. Not the best. We looked out onto those of Norway, Japan, etc., and of course they were really nice. I could have moved to the Fondation des Etats-Unis, room opened up, but I didn't fell like moving and they are right on top of the RER line, I heard, and lower rooms can be noisy (USA). Now the Spain one is very nice and they have their own cafeteria, as I had friends in there.

Sometimes you can get into other dorms than those of your country, but they do have that weird country-specific system (which I think has to do with funding, obviously).
It's still a convenient location, nice campus, good services, and you meet a lot of people there. Now there is a tram running down along that bd, I believe, isn't there, which should make it even better. It's nice being near the parc Montsouris, also. Things are different in summer when I was there, though, as that's when the countries rent out the rooms to a lot of different people as they have free space (which is how I ended up in Maison de l'Inde as I'm not Indian). I wish I had taken up that offer to stay in the College d'Espagne the summer I was going to Schola Cantorum as others students did, but I rented an apt. instead.

Living with your compatriots would seem to defeat the purpose somewhat. Or even if you were in a houseful of predominantly, say, Norwegians or Brazilians.

But you only spend most of your time sleeping there and don't care who is sleeping in the other rooms.

I was looking at the website and I did notice that some of the places reserved the residence for nationals and others reserved only half of if for nationals.