Is Siena overrated?
 

We took the bus from Florence to Siena and, based on the comments of Rick Steves and others, were prepared to be wowed. We weren't.

It's not that we thought it was awful, but really, it's not much more than a picturesque square surrounded by quaint streets. Worth about 3 hours of your time, in my estimation. Is there something else that we missed.

I've never seen it "rated". What in the world were you expecting? I can't imagine that Rick would have over played the city.

Imagine it. To quote his book: "Everyone on our staff just
l-o-o-o-o-v-e-s Siena."

I guess you didn't get a chance to see details and hear about them - things like why the church sits where it is and what its original plans called for, about the history and rivalry with Florence that explains a lot of what you see, and on and on.

If you just blow into the main square (well, as non-square as it is), look around, say Been Here Done That and blow out - sure you have no reason to be overly impressed.

Pity, you missed out, there's a lot more to it.

WK

WallyKringen,

So true.

The inside of Duomo in Siena was my favorite of all over those we saw in Florence, Rome, Milano and Venice. I guess it comes down to personal taste. Walking down the hill and seeing the vegetable and fruit outside the little shops, sitting on the steps of the square, etc. was lovely. Sorry, we agree with Rick and others. We had 3 hours and wished we could have had a day or two.

Siena is probably my favorite medium sized city in Europe. Did you see much of the floor at the Duomo, did you climb up the bell tower (not the one on the Campo), and look down over the roofs of Siena & the Campo, did you wander through the small streets??

Were you there on a Sunday or Monday morning, or at noon when most of the shops are closed?

Stu Dudley

Very interesting question. Fifteen years ago when I first stayed in Siena, I was delighted by everything - the Campo is one of the most beautiful in Italy, the cathedral was beautiful, the view of the Tuscan countryside from the top of the Duomo Museum was breathtaking - especially at sunset, the narrow streets quaint and charming and the food delicious. We returned in October and had a very different impression. The campo was covered by a trade fair sponsored by Opel with blaring music and giant balloon people, the Duomo was being restored and wascovered by a scrim, there were hoards of tourists in the quaint streets and it was raining. It was a huge disappointment but I chalk it up to the circumstances. I still remember Siena the way I saw it the first visit.

Did you not go into the cathedral? The Pinacoteca Nazionale?

Or, most gob-smacking of all, Santa Maria della Scala? Ahead even of the Cabinet War Rooms or the Musee d'Orsay as the most spectacular addition to Europe's sights in the past 20 years. Worth a day just by itself.

I can't imagine anything greater than finding a city in Europe with "a picturesque square surrounded by quaint streets". That's enough to make me ecstatic. But we found much more in Siena as well. I think what I liked best about it was that it seemed so alive and a real working city -- unlike the tourist attraction of the city center of Florence, for example.

But if you don't like picturesque streets to explore, I guess I can understand how you didn't care for it. I could spend days poking around there.

O.K. ,I'll be the only other one listed as not l-0-0-0-ving Siena. I do like it, but I'd choose Lucca over it any day.I,however, have not spent any real time there (e.g. stayed for a few days).I think that this would change my opinion.IMHO, the larger the town,generally the longer you need to stay to truly experience it.

We spent some days staying in both Lucca and Siena. Siena at night after the crowds leave gets very dark and medieval. The store openings are small as it is and they virtually disappear at night. In Lucca we got a little bored after a couple days and started visiting the surrounding villas.

To state the obvious, tastes vary. That picturesque square is considered one of Europe's best and most beautiful outdoor living rooms.

Siena is a place where it just great to wander its crooked streets. My daughter did a semester there last year and we visited a few times. She showed us a terrific Chinese restaurant about a block behind the Campo. I know that the idea of eating Chinese food in Italy borders on sacreligious but we had one of the best meals that we ever had in Italy - Chinese with an Italian influence. Siena is also an excellent jumping off point for day trips to the hills.

j_999_9: I'm curious - what cities and towns DO you like, and why?

My first memory of Siena is my favorite. Walking from the car park up the hill toward the Campo on a Sunday morning, with the smells of a hundred Sunday suppers coming wafting from the windows, and walking under the laundry hanging above us... reveling in the Campo, and wandering the (as you say) quaint streets, happening upon a trattoria where we feasted on their version of Sunday supper, with courses we hadn't ordered suddenly showing up on our table...and that was before really exploring the town.

Oh well, to each his own, but Siena holds a special place for us.

I'm of a similar mind as the OP - I quite liked Siena but wasn't wowed by it at all. Just didn't think it was particularly amazing.
I'll be back in Tuscany this May though, so I'll have the opportunity to visit again with my husband, who's never been there. Perhaps I'll like it better the second time.

I have to add that Siena was not my favorite town but I loved the duomo and the campo. If I were to read that someone or groups of people loved a city, I would know that it is not a given that my tastes are exactly like theirs.

My mom and i got to Siena and didn't want to leave. But we did, moving on to Venice, which we disliked enough to cancel our last night and move on to Verona. Basically, now when we talk about our trip it is "before Siena" and "after Siena." Sort of like "before we knew what the best place in the world was" and "after we hit the hill down." I loved Verona, but Siena was our favorite of favorites and sometimes we sit around and talk about how we want to go back and just not come home. It was the best as far as I am concerned, and not just for the square, but for the entire place, food, people and all.

I guess it depends what you expect (who's rating it, anyway?). My friends and I really liked it: we had excellent food, loved all the sights, got right off the train and met a girl from Calabria studying law at the University, very friendly. Met several more nice people while we were there.

Hmm, I guess I'm saying I don't think it's overrated at all.

I don't understand the global concept of "overrated" and "worth it." Doesn't it depend upon what you like and expect?

For me, Siena was "worth" a couple of multi-day visits, and I'd go back again. I'm a big fan and former student of Italian Renaissance art, so not only was there the Palazzo Pubblico, the Duomo floor, the Pinacoteca, etc., there was the Oratorio di San Bernardino, the Museo dell'Opera Del Duomo, where Duccio's Maesta is the big star, the State Archives, where an empolyee accompanied me while I looked at the painted covers of the city's Renaissance account books, and much more... Not to mention the time I was there when the winning contrada from that summer's Palio was having its autumn victory dinner in the streets. So if you really meant "Is there something else that we missed?" other than rhetorically, yes, there is, but it may not be something that you're interested in. Nothing wrong with that.

On the other hand, I was less than thrilled with being almost literally run over by hordes being disgorged from tour buses at the parking lot on the edge of town.

This kind of brings up one of my problems with Rick Steves. Those books are so prescriptive: you must go here and spend so many hours, then go to the next place on his list. Not much room there for personal preferences or interests.

OK, to answer a few questions, I liked Lucca better -- just seemed more quaint to me, though I can't exactly put my finger on why.

As for what other cities I'd seen on the same trip: Florence, San G., the aforementioned Lucca, Monterosso and Porto Venere. All of which I liked.

BTW, don't take it personal if you liked Siena and I didn't. (And c'mon, if you take the use of "overrated" literally, as if someone is keeping score, we need to have talk about language and idioms.)

Maybe what spoiled it for me is (a) the area was really overrun (no, they weren't actually "running") with tourists on the day we went and (b) we wandered into a few small restaurants and shops where the workers seemed really grouchy because of the crowds. One backstreet restaurant owner got really upset when my wife took a picture of the food display in the window. We exchanged unpleasantries in Italian, and maybe that just soured the day. Who knows?

I may give Siena another try some day, and some of you seem to have goof suggestions about what to concentrate on if I decide to go back.

Another BTW: I was aware of the Siena-Florence rivalry and some of the history involved, but to me the story didn't have the interest that surrounds some other parts of Italy, like Sicily. Guess it's all in what interests you.

well exactly, it's all about what interest you. So when you read something that says "the staff loved xxx city" don't assume you should also...just go and see.

I was at a language school in Siena last month:Loved it, didn't think it overated, but love Lucca as well. With regard the rivalry, On a minibus on its way to Montalcino, and I was discussing with a classmate thae fact that Montalcino was the last refuge of the Sienese government after their defeat by Florence sometime in the 1600s. Our teacher , born and bred in Siena said "We havn't lost yet, we are just regrouping".

I'm always surprised people like the entire town of Siena as much as they do. I liked touring its duomo and artworks, but I otherwise disliked being in Siena pretty thoroughly, even in the showplace Campo, which I thought was a pretty unappealing place to hang around even if it was an engineering marvel. I don't feel I've shortchanged anything in the town, but I'd just rather spend my time elsewhere.

I feel that way about Boston, too! And Miami. And Barcelona. And San Francisco. It's funny, but I'd rather spend an afternoon in Edinburgh or Venice than in Siena. Or even Beirut. But if somebody told me they didn't like Madrid (I do) or Milan (I do) or Florence (I do), I wouldn't feel there was anything wrong with him. Or her.

I think Rick Steves travel books really are pretty middling, and many of the "crowd pleasers" he claims are going to please people so much are less interesting than other places he never mentions. He seems to think everybody goes to Europe to see old, storybook things and watch the natives be quaint.

To each his own...some people hate Rome and Paris and they are my two favorite cities. I did not care much for Florence and some people rave about it. I guess it depends on the weather, your mood, the people you encounter, what you ate and if you liked it, what you saw and did you find it interesting...I have often gone to a place several times and liked it more the first time than the second or vise versa. Many things shape your perception including your travel partner/s. I say that travel is fun (or should be) and is educational....you take something away with you regardless.

The more highly rated a place is the more likely we'll find it overrated - if Siena were unheard of and we went there we'd be raving about it. I've heard similar comments about Bruges, Belgium, to me one of northern Europe's dreamiest cities if you get away from the mobs seemingly Velcroed to the main square. Expectations meet reality.

Nicely put, PALQ.

My introduction to Sienna came in looking out the window of my room at Palazzo Ravizza, and I was in love! It was a first impression that would have been hard to overcome, enchanting, expansive countryside, with a church and a cemetery adding beautiful coral tones to the greenery.

I loved Sienna, but I can understand why it might not have held the same charm for someone else. I realize that at times I have somehow gotten off on the wrong foot in one city or other that I've visited. For example, we didn't enjoy Florence, which we'd visited just before Sienna. I've heard enough people rave about Florence to tell me that there is much to love in that city, but for some reason, I didn't see that.

Finally, I think we're all a bit too demanding. On our trip this May, I'm going to have as my goal the objective of finding just one wonderful thing to see in each city we visit. If I do that, the visit will have been worth it and all the additional wonderful sights will just be gravy.

It seems to me that the more well known and popular a place becomes the less charming it seems unless one can stay for a few nights and enjoy it after the daytrippers leave.

I still love Venice but I don't enjoy the touristy area (Piazza San Marco etc) as I once did.

CinqueTerre is not like it was before it was "discovered" by a well known travel writer.

Pisa, one now has to make reservations and buy a ticket to climb the tower. And from what I have read there are lots of trinket salesmen all around the area.

Rome, a ticket is needed to get into the Colloseum etc. It used to be that being in Rome during the month of September was considered the nontouristy time but not anymore.

And as others have said we all have different likes and dislikes.

But visiting anywhere does broaden our horizons and is educational whether we completely enjoy the place or not.

Perhaps J_999_9 if you had stayed a few nights in Siena you may have enjoyed it more but even than perhaps not. I love Milan, some people do but many do not. It is a good thing that we do not all have the same taste.

Personally I always find it interesting to read other travellers viewpoints of various places.

Hmmm..nobody mentioned San Domenico, St. Catherine's church. A large interior with large paintings flanking the nave. About halfway down the right side is a small chapel where you see the lit-up face of St. Catherine, painted by her contemporary, Andrea Vanni. It is eerie, because the painting is not close to you and because it is framed and lit in such a way that you only see the face, which appears to be smiling. She has in interesting story. Look her up. She was a respected diplomat who ended the Great Schism by convincing the Pope to return to Rome from Avignon. I believe whe was eventually martyred. At any rate, her preserved head and a finger are on display.

Siena is not for a daytime, "hit the highlights" tour. It is deeper than that. I think it is Italy's most enchanting medieval city. Probably founded by the Etruscans, it was an historical rival to Florence. It founded the world's oldest bank. Once a year there is a wild horse race around the Campo by representatives of the Medieval Guilds. Give it a second go.

People always think that if somebody didn't like being someplace abroad as much as they did, that person failed to do something -- like get out of the main tourist center or spend enough time there.


I walked all the way to the river in Brugge, spent several days there, walked around to the Beguinhof, saw the Michaelangelo and the art museum, went to St. Ann's church, walked around the windmills and the brewery, went to the park (near the Chinese restaurant) and ate with the locals. I saw parts of Brugge I am certain the people who love it never did.

I'd never go back. I thought it was interesting as a snapshot and otherwise just a tourist spot.

Siena is not just a tourist spot, but I've likewise spent enough time there to know I don't want to be in place that -- creepy is the only word I can think of. I didn't like the look of the place and I didn't like what I felt was a backward culture.

I'm glad other people found it to their liking, but quit imagining it's to everybody's taste if they just work at it. I don't like champagne or rum, either, or vanilla ice cream.

I'll join j_999_9 and say I didn't loooove Siena. I loved the Campo, I loved the Duomo with its charming floors, I liked the flock of marching flag-wavers and drum-beaters that surprised us outside the Duomo. I even liked the rogue thunderstorm that had us huddling under a scrap of awning (we didn't have an umbrella) and that washed the Campo clean. But I didn't like the hoards of tourists - hoards! - who crowded every site with their loud, disruptive voices. I didn't like our simple and nice, but very overpriced hotel room. And I didn't like the mediocre meal we were served at a "touristy" trattoria, where the food was obviously prepared without care. Siena, sadly, can be a bit of a tourist trap and I'm afraid that, unfamiliar with it, we fell into it. Alas. I love other Italian cities - Bologna, Modena, Rome... but not Siena.

Hi J999 & 9,

Count me among the few who didn't LOVE Siena. Hindsight being 20/20 I would have stayed in San Jimmy next time.

But all of this is so subjective. It really does boil down to what you like and your experiences. This is why those "travel reports" must be read carefully to see if you're on the same page as the person reporting it. And don't even get me started on Rick Steves!

So much of our travel has to do with our experiences and that's never going to be the same for every person. I stayed in Siena for 3 days, but the thing I'll always remember is coming back to our hotel and getting an impromptu group of Americans together and drinking wine and discussing where we'd been and where we were going. That will be my favorite memory of Siena.

Regards,

Melodie

San Jimmy? Is that near Flo?

Sometimes magic happens, sometimes it doesn't. It isn't necessarily the place itself, just random events that might or might not happen - people one meets, a certain light in the sky, or in Siena, a dog that we'll always remember that 'sang' along to the church bells. You can't really prescribe this, so don't be too disappointed if it doesn't happen.

On the other hand, sometimes random events can spoil an experience - road construction downtown, or one's coming down with a cold, or miserable wet rain, or in your case, being trampled by fellow tourists. Again, no telling if these will happen each and every time, so nothing to do with the place itself. Generally, unless a place is a toxic waste dump, one needs at least two trips before writing it off.

We spent 2 weeks in Rome, Florence, Cinque Terre and the Tuscan region. We spent one night in Sienna and it was our least favorite day of the whole trip. Completely over-rated in my opinion.

Funny, Neopolitan. You are quick!

I am so glad that you-all are going to stay away from Siena, so that when I go back you will not be there. May I ask, did you go there independently, or were you on a tour? We saw the tours coming and beat it out as fast as we could to the lesser known areas. Try, next time to go there on your own, with no time constraints...like....it's Tuesday, the bus is leaving for (fill-in-the-blank).

I enjoyed Siena very much. The Duccio Maesta alone! The Lorenzetti frescoes in the Palazzo Pubblico...oh, there's lots to see. I haven't been there in seven years though--perhaps it's a lot more crowded than it used to be. I was there in October 1999 and aside from inside the Duomo (tour groups), and the Campo itself, it wasn't crowded. Especially when one wandered off the main streets.

jtrandolph,

Many people who take tour buses to Siena ADORE it! Daytrippers too. I went there independently.

What does if feel like to think that your reactions are the only acceptable ones and that others who don't have them should be insulted and told to go away?

Since I study Italian art, I'm sure I'll be back in Siena again because it's art collections are unique. Glad to know you won't be clogging up the museums but will instead be hanging out somewhere totally uninteresting. Maybe you should avoid Siena to avoid us since you seem to think the place isn't big enough for independent thinking.

Actually, it is awfully cramped.

We were in Siena in 2002 and we thought the same thing! (Although we did enjoy our gelato in the square.) We fell in love with San Gimignano. It was by far more beautiful and we can't wait to go back to spend more time.

Well, actually, construction on the Siena Duomo began long before Orvieto.