Internship in London, what should we expect for costs?
 

Our college daughter is planning to do an 8-week internship in London next summer. The upfront cost includes a shared flat in the Kensington area and subway passes. She will need to buy and prepare her own meals.

I know London is very expensive.... she is not a experimental eater by any means. Lots of simple pasta, chicken, pizza etc. pretty plain stuff in her diet. What can she expect for food costs per day, based on a small breakfast (cereal etc). Lunch (fast food probably), and buying a few groceries for the flat.

Trying to budget here.

Thanks for any help.

I would figure it based on what that stuff would cost in NYC or another large US city and double it because of the exchange rate. So if a Starbucks is 3 pounds in London ,it's like almost 6 bucks for us Americans.

Lunch - allow £5 per day for sandwich/drink/piece of fruit/bag of crisps etc. This will be generous overall.

Groceries. Well...I reckon an average of £30-£50 per person per week depending on how expensive your tastes are, whether she likes rummaging through the reduced section of the supermarket, and whether she will be shopping at a cheap and cheerful big supermarket, or poncy little M&S/Waitroses.

Add on something for spending money too.

Living in London does NOT cost twice what it costs in New York.

Very improvident - and very stupid - tourists might think that, because they typically compare the cost of junk food in a central London convenience store with what they'd pay for the same brand of life-shortener in a supermarket in an obscure suburb of a town so few people want to live in, they give land away.

Fund her on the assumption she's as feckless as the dimmest tourist and she'll prove you're right.

Fund her on the same basis that British students budget, and she'll acquire some useful insights, to add to the deep expertise in working photocopy machines and gossiping about "Big Brother" that usually amounts to the sum total of value most students extract from work experience programmes.

For real grocery prices, go to the price lists at tesco.com or opodo.com (the home delivery arm of Waitrose). For general advice on student budgetting, go to www.ukstudentlife.com/Prepare/Cost.htm, or download http://tinyurl.com/jekzx.

Most important, though, is to understand the HUGE disparity between how much it'll cost her to live if she switches her brain off, against how much it'll cost her to live like any other student or worker in their first year out of university.

You'll get much better advice about that on the UK branch of Lonely Planet's Thorntree site than here

Transportation--monthly pass on tube is £85.30, bus monthly pass is £51.90 (could go up next yr if Red Ken has his way).

As for the meals, £5 lunch is perfectly doable--sandwiches, salads, soups, jacket potatoes as options. Quick bites in restaurants eg pizza, curry, thai would be £10-15. Bring your own cereal and sandwich, and it'll be even cheaper. As for grocery, Tesco, Sainsbury's, Somerfield are less expensive than M&S and Waitrose.

One thing I find distinctively expensive in London vs US cities is drycleaning. Hope she washes and irons (if necessary) her own clothes.

Another thing, summer climate in London can be rather unpredictable. We had incredible heatwave in July, and commuting on tube was torture. Though it cools down in the evenings, and by mid-Aug I needed a light jacket at night. Most flats don't have A/C--as so many previous threads can attest. But most offices do.

My daughter did a five month internship in London (Spring 05) and also lived in a flat in Kensington. Obviously the main thing to look at is the exchange rate which may be different by next summer. Right now it's 1.87, when my daughter was there it was 1.95, but it's also been better (for the US) than that a few times in the last few years. When a tourist going for just a few days says just double the prices to get US equivalents that works, but it does make a difference for long stays. We found the prices in the supermarkets to be a little cheaper (in pounds) than in the US (in dollars), then you do the conversion. In other words if a certain item costs $1 in the US, it might be .85£. So I'd guess if you figured you might spend 100USD a week here you should count on 175USD over there and you'd be in the ball park.

And of course the main thing is how economical is your daughter. In the US one college student can live on $100 a week and another can do fine on $50. My daughter has a passion for coffee, newspapers, magazines - that sort of stuff and it can really add up over there even more so than here. But believe me, it's worth it.

My DS is currently doing an internship and semester abroad in London. He is sharing a flat with 5 other flatmates off Gloucester Road Tube stop in Kensington. His share per week is 87 GBP. He has managed so far on a 50-60 GBP per week for food either take away or prepared at the flat. When you figure todays exchange rate at around $1.87 to 1 GBP the you can almost double your $ cost of living and eating in London. But he loves it. I'm sure your DD wil too.The experience is priceless.
We will visit him over Thanksgiving .

Hi 4K,

Figure that she will spend in GBP about what she would spend in USD if she were at home.

((I))

If she's staying for a while she needs to learn to behave as we do - not as a tourist.

I assume she'll make her own breakfast from supermarket ingredients. Plenty of people here also make themselves a packed lunch for work - failing that a sandwich from a supermarket (and there are small versions of the major supermarkets all over London) is around £2.00,

Again I am assuming that she will be cooking her evening meal - if so she wants to look out for larger size supermarkets and buy the own brand stuff (to give an idea a loaf of sliced bread will be about £1.20 in a central London shop, a brand version about 80p in a supermarket and their own about 40p). You could easily manage on around £30 a week, more if you want ready-made stuff.

Her biggest expense will be socialising - beer is about £3.00 a pint in central London, wine about the same for a glass, eating out is expensive, so students generally don't do it much. Remember that over here 18 is the legal drinking age, not 21, so she almost certainly will be socialising.

The most expensive thing about London is rents etc, and she's covered that.

Children are amazingly resourceful. Unless the other persons in on the "share" are totally on another planet/unfriendly I bet you that within a week she'll know where all the cheap food is, how to get from A to B on a shoestring, and still be able buy things to wear, read, etc.

And, I can assure you that Lonely Planet has NOT been taken over by Americans, ignorant or otherwise, unless Americans are suddenly using terms such as "knackers" and "daft."

don't forget about the social factor...a young foreigner alone in a big city will most certainly want to follow her new friends to coffee shops, restaurants, pubs, bars, clubs, etc.

you have a huge uncertainty in her behaviour while in working in london. london is no different from many big cities in that many young london professionals fall into the trap of shopping and often more monitarily troublesome, pub visits after the office that blend into nights out...complete with a curry or a stop at pizza express, and perhaps a taxi fare. this lifestyle often causes a great deal of debt for young londoners.

if she is going on a rather generic work experience...meaning something that she can easily do at home (eg being a broker's assistant, investment analysis, junior actuary, computer programmer, etc), then is it really worth it for her (and realistic) to just go to the office and then slink back to her flat to cook spaghetti when all of the new people she's meeting are out in the pub? for better or worse, the pub is an integral part of office life for most young londoners. if it's just a generic internship, then much of the advantages of her being in london rather than doing the same thing at home, will be in the social aspects, right?

if it's something very specialised that she can't do at home (e.g. academic research in a specialised field) then maybe she's there more for the work aspects and fun will be secondary. she will most likely be much more serious about it. even then, you do have to add in the social factor that can greatly increase the food and drink budget.

So, do ALL American students get to live in Kensington? Us mere mortals have to make do with the likes of Kilburn and I've got a proper job! Most British students have to settle for the far reaches of Cockfosters and Walthamstow.

As others have said, steer her away from Waitrose and Marks and Spencers (M&S) for food - WAAAY pricier than the other supermarket chains. £30-50 per week for grocery shopping will be fine (that includes breakfast). Lunch, approx. £3 should cover it if she's happy with a sandwich. But do not ignore the above advice about socialising - it's a BIG part of London work-life. Popping to the pub with your colleagues after work before going home is standard behaviour. She will need to be able to stand a round of drinks.

THis stuff about the pub is absolutely right - it comes as a shock to Americans just how vital the pub is to both work and social life.

Other ex-empire countries like Australia, New Zealnad, South Africa, Ireland etc have a similar pub culture to us, and as such aren't peturbed by it. Wheras the Americans we've had over as colleagues all tried to get us to join AA after they's seen us in the pub.

Drinking after work can make a serious dent in your budget. A typical round for five people (three beers,a wine and a coke) will be around £15.00. You can easily pay more (and indeed less, but that's in places like Wetherspoons which are dingy hovels).

The cinema (not west end) is around £8, theatre around £25, from the half price place(although with good discounts for students).

Thank you for the insights.....I'm sure she will socialize. Ahem, she has done of "little" of that in the states underage. It will be good that she is at least legal over there. :-) As well as celebrates her 21st while there.

She is pretty good at budgeting, so I am confident she can handle the food situation. She is planning to pay for her roundtrip flight and spending money for socializing.

We will probably need to supplement her meals a bit, if we transfer money into her US account is this the best way to get money to her? Or does she need to get the money exchanged before she goes? We have never been to Europe so pretty confused about the process at this point.

What works best?

I would give her an ATM card keyed to a particular bank account which you can top off from time to time. That way she can get regular cash at the best possible exchange rate.

Admittedly there may be a per-use charge for the ATM but paying that, even if there is one, would be better than paying the commissions or enduring poor exchange rates seen at change bureaus.

Good suggestion from Dukey about using the aTM to transfer money. We did it when our daughter was a student at the University of Edinburgh. She and her mother had a joint account with two ATM cards. When the time came to "top up" the account, it was easy for my wife to do it here and for our daughter to get it out there. Also a good way of tracking cash flow, if not expenditures.

She has an account with ATM card that I can transfer funds via online from home from my other personal accounts... I assume that will work the same as making a deposit to her account at an ATM....

That will make it easy....

The internship also includes mobile cell phone? I assume it is a temporary cell phone to use while in UK? I have nationwide Verizon... what does it cost to call overseas on a cell phone?

have nationwide Verizon... what does it cost to call overseas on a cell phone?>>>>>>

A mental amount - don't do it. The best thing she can get is one of the phone cards that are sold in every newsagents (and just about anywhere else) that offer a pre-paid amount of minutes. There are adverts for these everywhere - and loads on the tube.

For the USA you'd only be paying a couple of pennies a minute from a landline, more from a BT payphone.

I assume you are asking about YOU calling her, is that correct?

Yes, because I think her phone that is provided while in UK allows her to call home?

Maybe not, but my assumption.

I’d be surprised if it did. Overseas phonecalls on UK mobiles are insanely costly. Mine would charge me about £1 a minute to call the USA.

Flanneruk- FYI, NOT A STUPID TOURIST!, nor ignorent. My comments were based on experience of friends who have kids that have done semesters abroad last year. So chill out and if you give your opinion , don't slam someone elses just because you don't agree. That's just rude.

An unexpected expense we encountered in Italy last semester was for internet access. It was not available at our daughter's host home, so she went to internet places and they were quite expensive. She'd buy a card worth an hour at a time, but it adds up quickly when they are keeping in touch with their home campus and friends.

The internet isn't expensive in London - About £1 an hour, plus the place she's working at will probably have access. There are also internet cafes all over the place here.

Audere - proving that even government offices have internet overhere.

laartista:

OK You're not a stupid tourist.

You just believe, uncritically, nonsense you hear at third hand from stupid tourists. Does that make you feel better?

Take a Gristede's shopping basket (remembering to add on the taxes that NY merchants keep off their price lists) and compare it to buying Tesco own label groceries (remembering Tesco don't lie on their price tickets).

Go and see a play in both cities. Spend a night in a pub in both cities. Go and have a meal (remembering the ever-outstetched palms of the beggars who're allowed to pass themselves off as waiters in NY) and compare the end price with London. By and large, they end up roughly the same. Indeed, if I do the things I like doing in New York, they cost me more than in London.

Now show me someone who thinks they're paying twice as much in London and I'll show you someone who's incapable of managing money, and is behaving improvidently with their parents' money.

They might not do so if they faced a few critical questions about why they think they need so much more to live on here than our kids do.

That might require switching a few brains on. But being gullible is always a great deal easier.

>Drinking after work can make a serious dent in your budget.<

Not to mention how much weight you will gain having a few pints a day. :)

((I))

Ain't that the truth.

I'll never be a welterweight again....

I'm assuming that she will have a UK mobile phone?

We have UK pay-as-you-go cellphones that we use when we travel. I bought the Mad For Minutes phone cards for 5 pounds from the newsagent in our local tube station. It gave me something like 500 minutes to the US from my UK mobile phone. It gave very few minutes if used from a pay phone, though. Your daughter will want to check the terms of the card she buys against which type of telephone she intends to use.

For you to call her cell phone, it will be an international long distance call, which will depend on your carrier and plan. From you home phone, you may want to consider ATT, which has a favorable international plan for $1.00/month that gives you a rate of $.09/min.to the UK. From your Verizon cell, it looks like you could bring the rate down to $.20/min. with the correct plan and a $3.99/month charge. You could also buy international calling cards for you home or cell phones.

4khansen,

My sister just spent a year in London as a student. Her way of checking if a price was "fair" was that if it was the same amount in £ as it usually would be in €, it was ok (reference: Belgium). Eating and drinking out is very expensive, and my sister even found groceries to be quite expensive compared to Belgium, especially meat, fruits and vegetables. Fresh fish seemed to be almost non-existant.

As for the mobile phones: she got a special mobile card from O2 where she could call one foreign phone number for free, as much as she wanted. That was our home phone. I don't know if it's also valid for the USA, but it might be worth checking out. They also have special tariffs in general for people calling abroad often.

< but that's in places like Wetherspoons which are dingy hovels >

BUT they are about the only national chain that serve DECENT beer rather than the Spanish / Mexican / whatever pigswill that passes for beer in the Kewl bars

Flanner- First it's not third hand, I've been to London numerous times. Second a student who has done a semester abroad is not a tourist, they are living there. It is more expensive for Americans in London no matter what kind of budget you are on because of the exchange rate. That's just common sense. I have many clients in England and ship there regularly, alot of Brits come to NYC to do X-mas shopping because of the exchange rate. That's first hand info. from them, not third hand. I'm just going to agree to disagree.

if there are any TVs in the flat, make sure she will be properly licenced. if her room in the flat has its own tv, she will need her own licence unless she has a lease shared with others (by the way you describe the internship programme, i don't think she has a shared lease). if there is only one tv in a common area, then the you only need one for the whole flat - the landlord may or may not have the property licenced but your daughter is responsible for ensuring that her flat and/or her room in the flat is properly licenced.

I believe she has a shared flat... with at least one roommate. It could be more. What do you mean license a TV? What will the TV do for you if you license it??

Ooops, maybe she needs to be licenced for the TV...? sorry didn't read it quite correctly... anyway I still don't know what that is...

Obviously, Flanner's a pretty dumb tourist in NYC & doesn't know where to go.

4khansen, every home in the UK is required to have a licence in order to watch TV. Penalty for non-compliance is a hefty fine. The licence isn't much, and is what pays for the wonderful BBC.

>>>>
The licence isn't much
<<<<

in fact it's about £135 or US $250. you can apply for a refund of the unused time when you leave, however.

this is not very convenient for someone who has left the country as the refund cheque will be in sterling.

best to just check with the programme (or whoever is arranging her housing)to see what the situation is. a landlord taking in short term tenants and providing a TV for them should pay for the licence but there is no requirement for him to pay for it. the authorities often target places where people come and go (eg short term places or housing used by students - exactly the type of place your daughter will live).

What kind of fine do they impose if you are watching the news without a license?

or do they just shoot you on the spot?