Input on this 5 week itinerary please
 

Hi, we will be in Europe for 5 weeks in the fall and have come up with a rough itinerary. My husband is bugging me to tell him how long I want to spend in each place but I have not done enough reading yet to know. Can anyone give me their opinons? Will this be too rushed? Would you skip or add anything? Even if you just have a comment on once place that's fine. Thanks, here goes:<BR>IRELAND<BR>Shannon (fly in here), West Coast, Dublin<BR>ENGLAND<BR>London (have been once but we loved it)<BR>FRANCE<BR>Paris (have been once but we're thinking of going again unless we will be too rushed)<BR>BELGIUM<BR>Brussels, Bruges<BR>NETHERLANDS<BR>Amsterdam<BR>GERMANY<BR>F rankfurt (because we fly out of Frankfurt at the end), Berlin<BR>POLAND<BR>Krakow, Auschwitz<BR>CZECH<BR>Prague, Small towns<BR>HUNGARY<BR>Budapest<BR>AUSTRIA<BR>Vienna, Halstatt<BR>SWITZERLAND<BR>Zermatt

Although 5 weeks sounds like a long time, with all the places you have mentioned and allowing for travel time, you will only have a couple of days in each city/area and you will be exhausted from packing/unpacking all the time. I think you really need to narrow you stay down a bit. I would say no more than 3 or 4 countries so you can really have time to enjoy the experience.

I think it all depends on how much driving you want to do. Look at a good road map and plan out what you'll see. If they geographically within a few hours of each other, do it. If not, reconsider.<BR>You might want to consider going by Train with a Eurail pass in the middle so you can take a break from driving. You don't need a car for London or Paris anyhow. Brussels is a small town. Amsterdam you'd be better off with a Bike. You might need a car for Poland, Germany, Switzerland, and etc. If you can squeeze it in, I'd recommend Italy. It provides an amazing contrast with Switzerland. Verona is nice for a day or two and it'll give you a chance to relax. There's a nice colesium there which is in better condition than the one in Rome.<BR><BR>Try borrowing a "europe" tourbook from your library. They should have some sample Iteneraries.

Hi, thanks for the input so far. Here's a bit more clarification on our plans: We are probably going to rent a car in Ireland, drop it off before we leave and then take the train everywhere else - we're backpacking and don't need to drive. We have been to Europe twice already, 4 weeks the last time, so we've already been to Italy which I agree is awesome. Some travel will be on overnight trains so we don't waste time and we usually like to do a lot while on vacation but we don't want to be too busy. Please keep the comments coming. Much appreciated.

You have listed 17 places; divide by 35 days - - the math is not difficult - - and you are traveling from somewhere to somewhere every other day - - and many of these places are 4 to 6 hours distant from the next closest place.<BR><BR>Sounds like madness to me.<BR><BR>I would reduce the list to 4 or 5 countries at the most. And maybe visit www.slowtrav.com for a whole different travel philosophy altogether. Stay one place for a whole week - - an approach to learning about Europe that goes beyond the highlights in the guidebooks.<BR><BR>Best wishes,<BR><BR>Rex<BR>

I'm looking at five weeks this fall, and before I can't do it anymore, I'm thinking about doing a "road trip". So I got out this laminated giant map of Europe (courtesy of my travel agent) and put Magic Marker X's where I wanted to go, then started doing the research (courtesy of the web and a couple of old European railway schedules). Thank goodness the map is laminated, because half the X's got - er - x'ed. No way could I spend 6 hours per day on a train, eventhough I love train travel. Even taking night trains doesn't alter the fact that the ratio of sightseeing to being transported is out-of-whack. I've decided to do either two large countries (France/Spain) or three smaller countries (England/Scotland/Wales). If you don't care about anything but seeing the cities mentioned in your itinerary (no countryside, no small towns, no castles on the moors), then you'll have two to three days per city, no downtime if you want to see all the sights. And you must MUST take into consideration the time it takes to find your accommodations, even if you have reservations, longer if you're going without, checking out, finding restaurants, eating...so you're 36 hours of sightseeing becomes 25 in a blink of an eye.<BR><BR>If you decide to do this itinerary, be prepared to be exhausted and cranky and not take it out on each other.<BR><BR>

I concur---way too much. In 5 weeks I would pick no more than 12 destinations and I would make then a max of 4 hours apart. Frankly, I would drop the UK from the front end. It reads like a scavenger hunt now--having to get your ticket punched. Get a good map and look at the places between your major stops. How can you go from Hallstatt to Zermatt and not see Salzburg and the Italian Lakes. Think by regions--not all-star destinations.

Thank you all, I will start rethinking our plans. Please continue on but with specific suggestions now. Bob, we've been to Salzburg, and it was lovely.

It appears that you have been to europe before and that you know a little of what to expect. So perhaps you are best to judge on whether you can do this. <BR><BR>My boyfriend and I backpacked for 6 weeks a few years ago and we probably had a similar itenerary and yes, it was quick stops. <BR><BR>If these are your stops - only stops (?) - then it's do-able. <BR><BR>Part of our route, concurs with some of the palces you want to go.. here's what we did.. <BR><BR>Paris (3 nights)<BR>Travel Amsterdam - One day in Brugge on teh way<BR>Amsterdam (3 days)<BR>Cologne/Rhine (2 nights)<BR>Travel to Berlin (1 day - &gt; 6 hrs trip)<BR>Berlin (3nights)<BR>Prague (3 nights)<BR>Vienna (2nights)<BR>Halstatt - day trip from Salzburg.<BR><BR>We went on from there... but that gives you a taste of what we did.<BR><BR>What would be really good... is if you go through all these places, list out definite attractions that you don't want to miss out (prioritise) and then see how you go with timing in each town based on that.<BR><BR>I think that would make things more clearer ...<BR><BR>-brownie

Any other suggestions (with reasons please) about which places to cut or not to cut? Ireland, London and Amsterdam are for sure and we fly out of Germany so we have to end up around there. Other than that, I'm open to suggestions.

Natasha: if it were me with the into Shannon and out of Frankfurt parameters my itinerary would look like this:<BR><BR>7 to 9 days in Ireland<BR><BR>7+ days in England (7 if just London with one or two day trips out side of town, 9 or 10 days if London and one other place)<BR><BR>2 days in Paris (since you've been there before)<BR><BR>3 or 4 days for Belgium and Amsterdam/Holland<BR><BR>4 or 5 days in Switzerland<BR><BR>and the 5+ remaining days in Germany

I am in the process of researching a trip to Ireland myself for next year, and based on what I've learned so far I honestly don't see the point of going there for anything less than a week if you want to see both Dublin and the West, so if you're determined to fly into Shannon I think you should allow at least 7 days for Ireland (and even that is pretty skimpy, timewise).<BR><BR>Since you've been to both London and Paris before you can afford to skimp on them and only spend 3 days in each. <BR><BR>Obviously there is absolutely no way you can do all of the rest of this itinerary. It is simply way too rushed and you will spend all of your time getting from one destination to the next and have no time to actually spend in the place that you spend all that time getting to. You have to leave some things out and save them for another trip, so it is a matter of prioritizing. <BR> <BR>Purely for logistical reasons, I would start by saving Ireland and England for another trip if it were me, but if you're determined to include them then you will need to leave out some of the destinations you've listed in eastern Europe, and I would start by saving Budapest for another time.<BR><BR>Here's one suggestion for a 5-week itin:<BR>Ireland -- 7 days<BR>London -- 3 days<BR>Paris -- 3 days<BR>Bruges -- 3 days<BR>Amsterdam -- 3 days<BR>Berlin -- 4 days<BR>Krakow -- 3 days<BR>Prague -- 4 days<BR>Vienna -- 4 days<BR>That adds up to 34 days total, giving you one day to get to Frankfurt for your departure. Would I want to do this itinerary? No way. You'll be spending the better part of every third or fourth day on the train, and spending all your time packing and unpacking and getting to and from train stations. And note that even this rushed itinerary still leaves out a lot of the places on your list (Zermatt, Brussels, Halstatt, Budapest). If you are willing to leave out Paris since you've been there before, then you could add those 3 days somewhere else.<BR><BR>I guess my suggestion would be to pick either Eastern or Western Europe and save the other for another time, because you really have two itineraries here, not one. Ireland-London-Paris-Switzerland-Belgium-Amsterdam can be done in 5 weeks (barely), OR Germany-Poland-Czech Republic-Hungary-Austria can be done in 5 weeks (barely) -- but not both.

Hi, Natasha. I've been to most of the places you mention and I agree with other posters that you have too much - both in terms of absorption and travel times. Of all your suggested cities, I love Budapest the most. BUT it is really far away, as is Krakow! <BR><BR>Here's a tip: write down what you really want to do in each area, paying particular attention to longer activities (such as mountain hiking, 3-day bike tours, several days of concerts in Vienna). That will help you realize where you want to spend more time. Then add one 'catch up' day every five days.<BR>If you love to move every other day you can do this itinerary but I would cut it in half!

Update on our plans:<BR>I think we've so far(very regretably) decided to cut Paris.<BR>We will probably not sleep in Berlin, just spend one day - night trains in and out, and before you say anything, we've done this before and we know we'll be tired, we're okay with that.<BR>We will be taking overnight trains wherever possible so we can travel while we sleep, saving us some time.<BR>Any more constructive critisizm is welcome. Just keep in mind that Ireland and London are for sure and we are flying out of Germany.<BR>Thank you for your input, it is helping.

Natasha, exactly when in the fall are you going because this makes a big difference. I assume you mean September thru early October, after that the weather gets cold, rainy and the days get very short everywhere on your list. BUT most important, life is simply too short to skip Paris and London on any trip to Europe. I think you should put Paris back in. I agree with the other posters, leave Eastern Europe for another trip. September is a charming, wonderful month in Germany, Austria and Switzerland, why don't you head down south from Amsterdam visiting Trier (the northern Gate of the Roman empire and the capital of Mosel wine country), the Rhein, the Romantic Road, Munich (Oktoberfest happens in September), from there the castles of crazy Ludwig, Austria, Salzburg (Vienna is too far away, ditto Berlin) and then swing down to Switzerland if you must, including Lucerne, getting to Zermatt is a major undertaking, unforgettable but better done as a full-on ski trip or in the heart of the summer, the weather could be very unpredictable in the fall. The Germanic regions at this time of the year are gorgeous, hot sunny days, turning leaves, clear skies, wine festivals all over the place, Lake Garda in Italy could be included. If you do include Berlin it deserves a minimum of three full days, it is an amazing and powerful city. Also this itinerary leaves much more time for day hikes, and much less train time. Other than a totally squeezable little black dress for the cities you can use the same wardrobe. By the way, I went to Auschwitz and it hurt me very, very deeply. It was the most frightening experience of my life by far, including being held up at gun point, skydiving, etc. It is too much, not sure that I would recommend it, I understand fully its importance but it will spoil a bit of your love for life forever. Just keep that in mind.

Hi Natasha,<BR><BR>Two years ago my wife and I had an itinerary similar to yours (six weeks). We altered it to get to each place on our list, but did it in three trips over 15 months (6/5/6 weeks each).<BR><BR>Liz has written 'our thoughts' in her response regarding where to spend some quality time at the end of the trip. I would add, if you do what she suggests rent a car as the places you will want to go are more accessible with your own transportation.<BR><BR>A summary of how I would alter the itinerary:<BR><BR>Ireland (minimum of a week with a car - and I would not miss Donegal/Fermanagh in the Northwest for all the tea in China)<BR><BR>London (three to four days)<BR><BR>Edinbourgh/Stirling, Scotland and a trip to the West (four to five days, I would do this partly because you can get a cheap, cheap flight to Amsterdam on Easy Jet from Edinbourgh)<BR><BR>Amsterdam (five to seven days with a day trip - or overnighter or two - to Brugges and Brussels . . . they are very close, you could do them successively)<BR><BR>Prague (three to four days, relatively easy access by train)<BR><BR>Back to Germany possibly Munich pick up a car and do as Liz suggests to finish the trip.<BR><BR>Can we go along? This would be a super trip.

Thank you for trying to help but I'm afraid we have been to most of the places people are suggesting we add to our list (In Europe so far we've been to England, Scotland, France, Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Italy, Spain, Portugal). That is the reason we have come up with this itinerary. We really want to do some of Eastern Europe which we have not done yet but Ireland is also high up on our list so we are starting in Ireland and ending in Eastern Europe. We're trying to cut places, not add them. Any thoughts, keeping this in mind?

Spend a week in Ireland & London as you make your way toward the continent. Then hit Amsterdam and Bruges for another 4-5 days. Move on to Berlin and spend at least 3 days--it is worth it! From Berlin go to Krakow/Auschwitz for 3-4 days--include a daytrip to Zakopane to get your Zermott fix (no Matterhorn but very nice with Tatras Mountains). Head on to Prague and small towns for 4-5 days. Then to Budapest for at least 3-4 days. Turn back north to Vienna for 3-4 days before heading to Frankfurt. That leaves you a couple of days to play with if you decide you really like an area. You will have enough time in each place to catch your breath, see the sites, take a day trip and enjoy the areas. You will like all the places. Since you have been to France, England and Switzerland; leave them for a return trip later. The Eastern European area is great and you will enjoy them as much as going back to London and Paris.

Okay, we've done lots of thinking and cutting. This is not a firm itinerary since we are going to leave it pretty open so if we like a place we'll stay longer... there but here are the changes we've made so far:<BR>IRELAND<BR>Dublin & Dingle - 7 days (flying into Dublin now and taking the ferry from Cork over to Swansea since it's an overnight)<BR>ENGLAND<BR>London - 4 days<BR>BELGIUM<BR>Brussels & Bruges - 3 days<BR>NETHERLANDS<BR>Amsterdam - 4 days<BR>GERMANY<BR>Berlin - 1 day<BR>POLAND<BR>Krakow & Auschwitz - 4 days<BR>CZECH<BR>Prague & Small towns - 9 days<BR>AUSTRIA<BR>Halstatt - 4 days<BR>GERMANY<BR>Frankfurt - 1 day and fly home<BR>(We cut Paris, Budapest, Vienna and Zermatt) Is this sounding better?

Covering too too too much!