Initial itinerary – Northern Spain and Catalunya
 

With the benefit of some additional (but still incomplete) research and the excellent advice I have already received (and with MANY thanks to all who contributed to my initial planning thread @:
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...n-may-2015.cfm),
I now have a very tentative initial itinerary for my May 2015 trip to northern Spain and Catalunya.

We all knew that I would have to limit my aspirations, so the very unfortunate news is that I believe I will have to skip Galicia. :-( My current hope to include Galicia in a future trip that will also include Portugal. If you think I can / should find a way to fit it into my current plan, please feel free to suggest how to do so!

Unfortunately, even with that painful cut and even if I am able to extend my trip to a month, my aspirations still seem too ambitious. I would appreciate your advice about what else I can or should consider cutting (and why). Of course, I also welcome any other comments, suggestions, or recommendations you care to offer. BTW, I really do NOT mind one-night stays, as long as they keep me moving forward, and I don't eat lunch, so find that a great time to travel. For more information about my interests and travel style, see the initial planning thread, linked above.

With that, here’s my very rough, overly ambitious “plan”:

• Fly into Madrid (which I have visited before) and take a train to Burgos ASAP. Spend about 2 nights in Burgos
• Train to Leon, 1 night
• Train to Pontferrado, pick up a rental car; spend 2 or 3 nights in this area (I think this may be the segment it makes most sense for me to cut – what say you?)
• Overnight in Gijon
• At least 2 nights for Oviedo
• Probably 3 nights for Potes and the Picos de Europa
• About 2 nights for Santillano del Mar or Santander, to include Altamiro, Zumaia, etc.
• Probably 4 nights in Bilbao for it’s magnificent sites, as well as La Rioja, Santimamine, and the monasteries of San Millan
• At least 2 nights in San Sebastian
• At least 1 night in the Pyrenees (overnight in Taüll?), with stops at San Juan de la Pena and some of the Romanesque churches of the Vall de Boi
• Perhaps 3 nights in parts of Catalunya north of Barcelona – Cadeques, Figueres, Girona, the Costa Brava – return the car as soon as it makes sense to do so
• Perhaps 2 nights in parts of Catalunya west or south of Barcelona – Tarragona, Poblet, a cava winery or two, Montserrat
• And at least 4 nights in Barcelona, from which I will fly back to the U.S.

Thanks in advance!

Please check the spelling of some locations.
I have said all I need to about one nights, but if you have to do them then choose one night in Burgos and 2 in León.
have you not thought about staying in the La Rioja region instead of travelling from Bilbao. You have several things on your list that is better accessible form the wine region.
In your planning have you allowed for the odd times things can be open/closed in Spain?

@ ribeirasacra --

Thanks for your comments! I apologize for my misspellings; I will try to be more careful and to better avoid autocorrections in the future, but I will probably continue to skip most accent marks and to use only English characters, since those are the ones to which I have ready access. I appreciate your forbearance.

Since I don't expect to arrive in Burgos until mid-day or later, and since I expect to have to cope with jet lag, I think I will need 2 nights there. Thanks for letting me know that I may need more time in Leon than this plan would allow.

I like the idea of staying in La Rioja -- perhaps Haro? Or perhaps you recommend another location?

I know that I need to consult opening and closing hours before I finalize my plan, and I know to pay particular attention to Mondays and siestas. Before I finalize a plan, I will sit down and block everything out on a calendar (as I consistently urge others to do ;-) ). For now, I don't think my plan is sufficiently well-formed to focus on those details -- after all, I'm still looking to cut a few days....

Thanks again for offering your expert advice!

Look into La Guardia.. nice village highly recommended here.

Santillana del Mar is very small. We visited from Santander
(which we liked).
There is a Museum of Torture in SdM that is horrific but memorable.

La Guardia? Shouldn't that be Laguardia-Biasteri (Álava) and not the airport in New York? It must be that autocorrect at work once again...

It is not the ñ or the ó you are missing it is understandable you may not have them to hand on your keyboard. No doubt some one will tell you about the alt plus keys.
Back on track.
León as a much richer old area than Burgos. I like Burgos for it's laid back atmosphere. But León has far more of interest. It is just a short hop away between the2 so maybe just over come some jet lag to get to León.
Main website: http://www.leon.es
Visit the Barrio Húmido for the night life. http://www.barriohumedoleon.es/

@ lincasanova & Robert -- I see a Laguardia-Biasteri in La Rioja and, if that's the place you mean, I'll definitely look into it. Thanks!

@ danon -- Thanks for the suggestions! I saw an exhibit of torture devices in Campeche some years ago; your description -- "horrific but memorable" -- is apt.

Instead of going into Madrid to take the train to Burgos, you can take the Alsa bus from T4 at the airport to Burgos. There are a number of buses each morning (also afternoon but you can catch one of the morning buses). Www.alsa.es

I think 2 nights in Burgos is good, same as I did. But, if you can also add a night to Leon that would be better than the one night... quite a bit to see there! Maybe steal a night from Bilboa or Potes?

SdM is small but I spent a couple of nights there and enjoyed it after the day trippers left. I went to the Altamira cave and Comillas as day trips from there. Great convent cookies there, too! Loved, loved , loved my hotel there!

@ joannyc -- Thanks for the bus info and the suggestions for tweaking my plan. Perhaps you are willing to share the name of your hotel in Santillano del Mar?

Of course, here you go:

http://www.hotelcasadelmarques.com/en/

My room had a balcony overlooking the garden (which I had requested during booking).

There are some pics of it and my room in my photo TR I linked to in your previous thread.

They have a parking lot at the back of the property.

@ joannyc -- thanks so much! I had seen those pictures (and just reviewed them again), and agree that it is a stunning place. That might be the deciding factor in whether I stay in Santillana del Mar or Santander. ;-)

No autocorrect.. I messed up.. sorry. I forgot it was one word. I haven't been there yet but have insisted guests go there when in that area and they really have enjoyed it. I got the rec from Robert2533, I am sure or Maribel's guides.It sounds like a great trip.

Between SdM and Santander, I would choose SdM. You have a number of cities in your itinerary and Gijon, San Sebastián and Barcelona have beaches.

SdM is crowded with tourists during the day but is very charming at night and in late afternoon.

****I went to the Altamira cave***
I think that is meant to be I went to the Altamira copy ;-)

The real cave is open, but access is restricted to a lottery system. Good luck with that!

@ lincasanova -- Don't you love that we can always count on Fodorites to make sure we have information that is as accurate as possible? Again, I appreciate the suggestion!

@ joannyc -- I do like to include a mix of cities and much smaller places in my itineraries. And while I'm not looking for beach time, I can imagine enjoying a walk of an hour or so along along a beautiful one. Actually, part of what made me give Gijon another look was your photos. :-) Your description of Santillana del Mar (and your pictures) make me think of places like Capri or Taormina or even Dubrovnik -- SO much nicer after day trippers leave.

@ ribeirasacra &
@ Robert -- As I mentioned in my first thread, I'm looking forward to seeing the cave art of Altamira (yes, ending in an A, not an O - oops!), whether a copy or not. :-) I'll apply for the lottery if I can; I certainly won't count on it! Having been assured that the copy is well done, I'm OK with that. And I still hope / plan to visit some of the other caves with prehistoric art while I'm in the area.

I agree with your instincts to cut Ponferrada - there is much to do there, and it is a beautiful area but if you think you will get back to Galicia you could visit that area at that time. I would try to tweak things so you have more time in the other areas.

Have you considered flying into Oviedo? If you fly Iberia/AA it is doable and that would be a very good town to decompress and start your journey in. There is a handy airport bus into town. I think there are also buses from there to Gijon.

If you plan to visit Tarragona and a cava house, you should keep the car until then... you could drop the car at Barcelona airport at the end of your trip.

Laguardia is wonderful - it was my favorite town in the Rioja and I wish we had stayed there.

I hope you can get your month - you need it with all this moving around. :)

-I think there are also buses from there to Gijon.-

"There" is the Oviedo airport.

@ rialtogrl -- Thanks so much!

I'm still clinging to the possibility of a short visit to Ponferrado (even if it has no "T" in it -- ;-) ), because I think I would enjoy seeing Las Medulas and O Cebreiro, but it just may not be possible for this trip. I love planning my trips, but this is the part I hate -- the cutting. Ouch!!! I keep reminding myself, mantra-like, of how lucky I am to see ANY of these places!

Did you mean to fly into Oviedo from the US? I'm not sure I understand the logic, although I'm sure there is one! Wouldn't that just mean a lot otherwise unnecessary travel to the north and south to see Leon and Burgos? Please explain....

I had been under the impression that I could visit Tarragona and a cava house by public transportation (not necessarily on the same day), but if not, then I may look into options to visit them BEFORE more northern parts of Catalunya -- I'd like to surrender the car as early as possible, in part because I prefer to keep my carbon footprint as small as possible. (And yes, I do realize that my footprint is not going to be all that small under any scenario, since I plan to use a car for at least a large chunk of the trip.)

I think where I end up staying in La Rioja -- Laguardia-Biasteri or Haro or elsewhere -- may depend on the wineries I decide to visit, as I do not plan to drive after consuming alcohol. I had originally thought about taking a bus to/from Bilbao, but since I AM willing to do one-night stays, the idea of staying locally makes a LOT of sense to me. :-) And if I do that, then you and lincasanova make a compelling case that I should visit Laguardia-Biasteri, even if I don't stay there...

SO many decisions! But you knew that, and I so appreciate that you and so many others are helping me find the particular combination of places and experiences that will best meet my interests. Thanks so much!

Yes, I meant to fly into Oviedo (through Madrid) and start up there, working your way across (and up and down.) But now I am thinking you could use public transport for the cities in the beginning. I would not be inclined to board a bus for a few hours after a transatlantic flight but I am a bit of a woos. I like to get there... and then worry about long bus journeys after a couple of days.

You can get to Tarragona easily with public transportation - but visiting wineries and Poblet, would be easier with a car. But you don't have a ton of time, so make it easy on yourself, and have a glass of cava at a bar in Tarragona :)

@ rialtogrl - Thanks for clarifying! I will check my options, but I have no objection to moving on by bus (or train) after a long flight, and in fact, I prefer to do so if it means I can get to the place where I want to begin my explorations -- especially since I can sleep through virtually ANYTHING once I DO get to sleep. :-) And if I can visit at least Burgos and Leon before renting a car, I should be sufficiently adjusted to the time difference to be a reasonably "safe" driver.

I suspect I'll have a bit of cava at any number of places, Tarragona included -- but if any one asks, I'll note that YOU insisted that I do so. ;-) But that reminds me -- how will I ever decide when to have cava rather than vino tinto, or when to have either of them rather than vino blanco?!? Life is TOO full of insurmountable opportunities. :-)

Thanks again!

You are so going to have a great trip!

I don't sleep well (or at all) on planes. I was looking foward to getting a couple of hours on the bus from Barajas to Burgos but a gentleman started chatting with me while waiting for the bus and I never got a chance to snooze the entire way to Burgos! Yes, he did select the seat next to me on the bus and chatted all the way. But, do have to say he was a very nice person!

@ joannyc -- if my trip is anything like yours, it will, indeed, be a great trip!

I almost never get to sleep the night before a major trip -- too much to do! And that leaves me so exhausted that I actually CAN sleep on the flight. Bonus! (???) I can then be sufficiently awake to enjoy seeing the terrain from a bus or train window. And while I generally prefer to sit in silence, I've had some surprisingly delightful interactions with others on trains or buses. As I see it, it's all part of the journey, and IME, some of those unexpected interactions, or observations of others' interactions, can truly enrich a trip.

Kja, I have to agree that I do enjoy the people that I meet along the way! They do add to your trip experience and are usually a wonderful time!

Have to laugh about one time when I was in Gent, the restaurant owner said there was not enough time to have the "x" course meal but by the time another table and I stopped chatting and eating our meals... she could have made quite a few extra bucks on those extra courses! ��

Other trips, I've met up with newly made friends for drinks, dinner, or both. Love it!

Like you, I have met so many wonderful people during my trips! One of the purposes of our trips, right?

@ joannyc -- What a wonderfully memorable evening you had -- thanks for giving me extra reasons to smile!

-And if I can visit at least Burgos and Leon before renting a car-

And Oviedo, if you take the Ponferrada part out of the itinerary.

@ rialtogrl -- Indeed! I so appreciate that you are thinking through my route with me and making sure I know my options! :-)

@ ribeirasacra - OMG, I'm so sorry, but I just now realized that I missed a message that you posted while I was also posting earlier today. I didn't mean to ignore you!

Even without seeing your second message, your first message made me give further attention to how I should allocate my time in Burgos and Leon. My current thinking is that even if I have no time to do anything in Burgos other than a short walk on the day of my arrival, I might be able to finish seeing my highest priorities in Burgos in time to reach Leon before a late dinner. (Here in the US, I'm very unusual in that I don't normally eat dinner until 20:30 or so -- how I love visiting a country where dinner is served late! :-) ) Even if I don't have time to do anything other than dine in Leon on that first night, I should then be ready to get an early start the next morning -- so I think your suggestion makes a lot of sense. Thanks so much!

Thanks again for your input. I hope you continue to monitor this thread and continue to offer your knowledge.

I'm coming to terms with leaving Ponferrada for a later trip to Galicia and Portugal, but I'm still looking for ways to trim my itinerary, particularly because I keep finding things I want to add to it!

So -- does it make sense to defer Tarragona and the Monestir de Poblet until a future trip that includes Valencia and Zaragoza? They are so close to Barcelona, it seems a shame to drop them from this trip....

Other suggestions?

Thanks again!

We loved Valencia!
It took five trips to Spain before we spent a week .
Like most here , we were " guilty" of concentrating on Barcelona, Madrid and Andalusia.
A lovely city, beautiful beaches ,good food. Some side trips possible by Cercania.
I recommend it highly.

@ danon -- actually, Valencia had been a very small blip on my radar until a few years ago, when I saw your comments on it. :-) I immediately knew that I would need a third trip to Spain -- one that would capture Valencia, along with Cuenca and other places not covered by my first two trips. My first included parts of central and southern Spain. I'm now planning my 2nd trip, to include Catalunya and parts of northern Spain. I can't currently envision a way to include Valencia in this particular trip -- but maybe you do? Feel free to offer suggestions! Otherwise, know that I'll be seeking your input on Valencia and surrounds sometime in the future.

You already have a full itinerary....
Valencia will probably have to wait ...

Both Tarragona and Girona are worth a visit. , Barcelona is amazing .

@ danon - thanks! I am definitely looking forward to Tarragona and Girona and (of course) Barcelona.

It's SO hard to decide what to cut!

If you think you are going back then by all means save Tarragona for another trip! But I would try to do the overnight in Montserrat on this one, maybe the night before you head down to Barcelona to drop off the car. (Assuming that is where you are dropping it off!)

In the future, if you can go in the fall, you could hit the Santa Tecla festival in Tarragona and the Fiestas del Pilar in Zaragoza... and visit Valencia too!

I've resigned myself to the idea that it will take me probably 4 or 5 trips to Spain to see all that I want.

@ rialtogrl -- Thanks! Montserrat remains on my list for this trip.

@ joannyc -- I can think of worse things to which to resign myself. :-)

Hi again! I’m still researching my options, but think I have a potentially workable plan for a 4-week trip – a plan that actually takes opening hours into consideration. :-)

I am indebted to a huge group of Fodorites who have been incredibly helpful already; I beg your attention once again to see if I’ve missed anything that is truly unskippable, included anything that is truly skippable, or made other glaring (or even not so glaring!) errors.

I know my plan is at a more rapid pace than some of you prefer. Because I am all-too-well aware that the time I have to travel will NEVER allow me to visit all the places I want to visit, I approach each trip with a commitment to take full advantage of every possible moment to see and experience things. I am not looking to relax, and trust that I will find more than enough relaxing moments after tourist sites close for the day and over long, late, delicious meals.

What I am seeking is a diverse array of the finest things to be seen and experienced in this part of Spain (other than beaches and shopping, which are not among my interests). I will need to reserve many things (e.g., caves and cavas) in advance and plan to begin requesting reservations soon – wish me luck! In most cases, I should have the latitude to go a day early or late if necessary.

So here’s the current plan, with apologies in advance for any misspellings. BTW, even once “finalized,” I never view a plan as writ in stone – I actually plan for what to do if I’m ready to move on earlier than anticipated or if I decide to take more time than planned. (I do seriously LOVE planning my trips. :-) ) My hope is to get a good enough idea of what makes sense to allow me to proceed with making reservations for lodging, tours, etc.

Day 1: Depart from the U.S.

Day 2: Arrive in Madrid and take the first possible bus (thanks, joannyc!) to Burgos. Explore as possible. Night in Burgos

Day 3: Pick up a rental car and head for the 1st of 2 nights in Laguardia-Biaster (thanks, lincasanova!), being very careful about speed reduction zones (thanks, mamamia2!) Visit Lopez de Heredia and Remelluri (thanks, mikelg!)

Day 4: Visit Vivanco and its museum (thanks, sssteve!) and the San Millán Yuso and Suso Monasteries.

Day 5: Return to Burgos to see things that weren’t open when I first arrived; move on to León for the 1st of 2 nights there.

Day 6: León

Day 7: Continue exploring León and then move on to Oviedo for the 1st of 2 nights there. If I have time, visit San Miguel de Escalada and/or Santa Cristina de Lena en route.

Day 8: Oviedo.

Day 9: Continue exploring Oviedo, visit Tito Bustillo (thanks, LuisJp!), and move on to Potes for the 1st of 2 nights there. (Or maybe Congas de Onis, which cruiseluv recommended? Or – dare I say it? – a night in each?)

Day 10: Picos de Europa (including Potes’s Monday market, Fuente Dé, the Enol and Encina lakes, Santo Toribio de Liébana....)

Day 11: Continue exploring the Picos de Europa, move on Santillana del Mar for the 1st of 3 nights there. If time permits, visit Comillas en route.

Day 12: Altamira and El Soplao.

Day 13: El Castillo, Las Monedas, and the Hornos de la Peña.

Day 14: Move on to Bilbao for the 1st of 2 nights there. Stop en route in Castro Urdiales if time permits (thanks, lreynold1!)

Day 15: Bilbao (not just the Guggenheim, but also the Beaux Arts museum – as Southam mentioned – and so many great options mentioned on mikelg’s wonderful blog!)

Day 16: Continue exploring Bilbao; move on to San Sebastian for the 1st of 3 nights there. If time permits, visit Santimamiñe and Zumaia en route.

Day 17: San Sebastian and surrounds, to include (this day or later) listening to the city choir, assuming I can learn where / when they will be performing while I am in the area (thanks, kimhe!) and a walk to Pasaia (thanks, yorkshire!)

Day 18: San Sebastian and surrounds.

Day 19: Early start for the Vall de Boi (stay in Taüll? Thanks, Michael!)

Day 20: Continue exploring the Vall de Boi, leaving in time to reach Cadaqués (thanks, kwoo!) before sunset. (@ ribeirasacra – I’m sure you will cringe when you realize that I am proposing 3 one-night stays in northern Catalonia, when I could base in Girona. I think we’ll have to agree to disagree about 1-night stays, but FWIW, I haven’t yet ruled out the option of basing in Girona.)

Day 21: Visit Figueres and, if time permits, Besalu (thanks, crosscheck!) on my way to Girona.

Day 22: Continue exploring Girona, leaving in time to reach Tossa del Mar before sunset. If time permits, visit the Jardins de Santa Clothilde en route.

Day 23: Leave Tossa de Mar early and drive to Sant Sadurni d’Anoia. Visit Cordoniu and/or Freixenet. Go on to Poblet Monastery. Spend the night in Sitges.

Day 24: Go to Barcelona early and return the car. Sometime that day, take the train and then cable car to Montserrat. (I may begin my exploration of Barcelona first – TBD.)

Day 25: Continue exploring Monserrat and return to Barcelona. (So, across days 24 and 25, I should have the equivalent of more than a full day in Barcelona).

Days 26, 27, 28: Enjoy Barcelona. Take a day trip to Tarragona if time permits (thanks, danon, for confirming that it is worthy!) And, if the timing works out, maybe have a glass of wine with rialtogrl. :-)

Day 29: Fly back to the U.S.

As for lodging, I’m looking forward to the parador at León (thanks, Robert2533 and annhig!) and appreciate the other suggestions some of you have already offered. Other ideas are welcome!

I’ve taken note of kimhe’s much appreciated restaurant recommendations, and welcome additional ideas on that front, too.

Thanks again for all the input already given and thanks in advance for any and all comments on this latest plan.

Fodorites rock!!!

kja,

if you visit Tarragona.....
Sunday afternoon/ evening is the time students
come back to Barcelona from visiting hometowns ...the trains are packed ( we had to stand all the way)
Barcelona has more to offer than one expects ...
On our first visit we stayed for a week without leaving the city ( we are " slow" travelers !)

have a good time!