>trouble just turning up somewhere and looking for a room
There are also quite a few persons on hrs.de. Usually you just go to the local tourist information and ask. Most of the time they have a Zimmernachweis, a leflet that lists all the local hotels and Pensions and gives price ranges. Some also have after hour courtesy phones where you can call the pension and ask if they have a room available. You can always have a look before you take the room, so there won't be any trouble. It would be shameful to the owner if the room were dirty (Remember it's Germany...)

persons = pensions

Agree with Logos' comments re: pensions. Lovely places, never had a dud yet in decades of traveling. Have always had my own bathroom. And the breakfasts are usually excellent and the owners usually charming and friendly.

pensions (little hotels) normally very nice. Hosts have more time for you if you want it. Shared bathrooms very unlikely

<i>Apparently, most Europeans travel this way.</i>

Even a passing glance at the most popular vacation spots for Europeans (think fun and sun) suggests that Europeans are more than happy to stay at large hotels. Pensions can be fine, but to suggest that most Europeans stay in them is almost certainly wildly inaccurate.

Just a thought... we're planning a honeymoon to Europe in June, and instead of hotels or hostels, we've been looking through Airbnb.com. You can rent someone's apartment, usually ~$100 a night for a decent apartment close to interesting things or at least the subway stations. They also have washers, kitchens, etc. We had looked at hotels but found that most in our budget weren't very nice or very far away from where we wanted to be. Just make sure you find ones with lots of good reviews and you're set!

I've tried both airbnb and pensions in Europe and pensions are the safer bet. People who run pensions are in the "hotel" business, whereas the people on airbnb are just trying to make some money by renting out an extra room.

It makes a tremendous amount of difference to a traveler to be able/not to arrive at any time. With the airbnb hosts, one generally has to arrange an arrival time convenient for both parties.

Unlike the US, Europe is covered with pensions to choose from.

Just my personal take on the subject.

Thanks for the discussion on pensions.

We've stayed in apartments before, which are good too, but it does take quite a bit work to arrange them and there are a lot of variables.

We just got back from Croatia, Bosnia and Montenegro and couldn't believe how much we spent just on eating every day. Of course we were there in September and it was hot so we were buying bottled water every time we turned around but given that--it was still much, much more than I budgeted for. Beautiful, though. I'd recommend it if you ever have the means to double your budget.

Even in popular Italy I think one can find affordable areas/places. I'm thinking, for example, of the contrast between the popular cities (including my favorite, Venice) and less touristed areas. In Ravenna, for example, we stay at a former palazzo, complete with frescoes and an ancient chapel (but with breakfast, wifi) for 60 eu a night (double). Food is moderate (and good in Emilia-Romagna) and if you don't want to spring for dinner, everyone gets appertivi and cichetti.

Ireland can be expensive but has lovely B&Bs (with enormous breakfasts!).

I had heard that Eastern Europe has been affordable but is catching up.

If you are considering outside Europe everyone I know who has been to Buenos Aires recommends it highly, noting particularly that you can live and dine very well for little.

I second Argentina-at least it used to be a very good buy.
I think Ecuador (sans Galapago Islands) is also a good buy.
It is generally cheaper to fly there from the US than it is to fly to many places in Europe or to Argentina.

By the way, we went to Bavaria last year and I found the hotels to be more than I had hoped for. I try to choose moderate hotels in good locations but I was disappointed to have to pay the asking price. Spain was much more reasonable
for hotels.

Pat

I may be stating the obvious but life outside London in the UK can be fairly cheap. Travel Inns/Travel Lodges are very modern/clean and are usually £35 a night.

There are huge food price wars between many retailers, although fuel is extremely expensive. Most Brits are absolutely shocked as to how expensive trips to "euroland" have become.

I clearly have no need to sell you our quality in terms of your list of requests " small towns, the outdoors, live music, walking and biking tours, climbing towers". We have the best in the world.

<i>I may be stating the obvious but life outside London in the UK can be fairly cheap.</i>

Frankly, even in London, life can be fairly cheap. $100 will likely get you a better than decent hotel via Priceline. And food is cheap, if cheap is what you want. Many of the big name sites are cheap or free, too. Throw in the cheapest flights from the US and you have a winner. I think the UK is among the best values in Europe.

I'm not certain that "cheap" is the applicable word here.

Most of us don't have unlimited funds, so how to spend one's funds best in pursuit of one's interests should be more the guidelines.

Many of the European B&Bs offer much the same quality rooms and cleanliness (a big deal with me) as the large hotels, without the red carpet, the glamourous driveup, the glitzy lobbies, the muted lights of a bar for a discreet pickup, etc.

Recently I stayed in a European B&B with a huge room and one of the most modern bathrooms I've ever been in - jet sprays from different angles in the shower, heated towel rank, the whole works - much better than the aging dowager Westin Century Plaza in Beverly Hills. Best was the rate, only 30 euros a night.

Not that I want to kill the tourist trade, but one can select the places where one eats also. I paid twice US prices for a "fancy" seafood dinner in Hvar. The next day, in Split, there was this local place really close to the Palace and I had twice as much fish which was just as fresh for 1/4 the price. So I splurged on two beers instead of my usual one.

Paying more doesn't necessarily mean better.

<i>I'm not certain that "cheap" is the applicable word here. </i>

I'm not certain that folks should be taking advice as to travel norms from folks that claim "most Europeans" stay in pensions when that is objectively not the case.

Folks that want to spend less than $50 per night on reasonable lodging should avoid all large cities in Europe and most large cities in the US. For those that recognize that visiting medium to large cities will entail higher lodging costs, then London remains a remarkable bargain relative to comparable European cities.

tg: the Fodors oracle

Always right. never wrong.

:)

Yeah, so smart. I'm German, lived in Germany all my life, been abroad, know Germans of any kind or type (the good, the bad and the ugly), at least I know the basics after those decades of my life in this country. Know quite a few people and I do know that those that aren't on a package tour southbound and those that pay by themselves for a room will chose a Pension. Always. Why? Because they're German, they want some quality, expect someone greeting them at the breakfast table and wish a good morning to everybody. If someone here claims to know a thing about my native place and county he/she'd better be a native or backing it up with facts from other natives...

pavot was right.

Go where you want and plan from there. Make a breakfast from instant oatmeal, coffee singles and an immersion water heater.

I don't want to hijack this thread, but for folks who are interested in finding pensiones, where does one look? Any good websites, etc?

I am specifically looking in Italy and Croatia.

Thanks.

November Moon, I hope you have a lovely trip, wherever you go. If you are considering Italy, you can find many monestaries and convents that provide very inexpensive accommodations. Just my 2cents. :)

sarge56: Just off the top of my head:

- Check out Rick Steves' site or his books. His B&B recommendations are so popular that he frequently has to change them every year, so you will find different B&Bs recommended in previous editions.

Here's Rick Steves on B&Bs in Great Britain:

http://www.ricksteves.com/plan/desti...tain/engbb.htm

- There's also a listing of B&Bs on Tripadvisor

- Some Italian B&Bs are listed on Hostelworld. They have the best reviews.

- There are some European listings on Qype.com and on Venere.com

- I've not had much success with bedandbreakfast.com

- There are a few websites that service the Great Britain community and there are also some websites that service the German community. I have a list of them somewhere...these are European websites for the use of Europeans.

- I've had some success in Germany and Austria with bedandbreakfast.de , but have not used it for any other countries.

Maybe you could ask this question on a separate thread on the Europe board and see if the Europeans can give you some leads.