Inexpensive Europe
 

My husband and I are tossing around ideas for a trip next year and I am looking for ideas. The trip will be in October or November (2012), so plenty of time, but we like to use FF miles for flights if at all possible, so planning ahead is a must. And I am looking for ideas for places that are less expensive for travel than the average for Europe.

Last month we went to southern Germany and to Prague, which was great. We have also gone to Belgium, Netherlands, Spain, Austria, and Germany once before. The last couple trips though, with the really lopsided US$-Euro conversion, Europe is really stretching our budget. Prague was pretty good - not as expensive as Germany. Our budget was more confortable there.

IF Europe is going to be on the list of possibilities for next year, then I need to find some places that aren't as expensive for travel as say Germany. Of course we could change our travel style and go super budget and pretty much go anywhere, but this is vacation, and we only have so much time off a year - I'd rather choose less-expensive places and set a reasonable budget that we can easily live within than spend our time counting pennies and worrying about overspending - even if if means not going to Europe for awhile. We don't travel lavishly, but we like to be comfortable.

We are late 30s/early 40s, no kids - we like history, architecture, castles, photography, beer, wine, good food (not really foodies, just like tastey food), big cities, small towns, the outdoors, live music, walking and biking tours, climbing towers. We are pretty low-key people, not really into shopping - except for museum gift shops. I have a serious weakness when it comes to a good museum gift shop. I also like to shop for locally-made things - soaps and lotions, jewerlry, scarves, pottery, etc. We aren't big on high-end restaurants either - we like to splash out once in awhile, but for the most part, we are quite content with small family restaurants that have good food at nice prices. We also prefer to take public transportation rather than renting a car.

So - any ideas you can give for places to travel in Europe that won't break the bank are greatly appreciated.

Bulgaria is very cheap, and in my opinion, often overlooked. Plovdiv is a wonderful City to visit. I suspect that Budapest and Bucharest are similarly not as expensive than many places. I have it in my head to visit Gdansk but I dont know whether it is a cheap destination. I would be interested in others views.

Frankly, I find Germany to be among the more affordable European countries, so if you can't make your budget there, well... Spain might be worth a look - if you can find reasonable hotels, then it is pretty affordable on the ground.

I also consider Germany to be one of the least expensive countries that I have visited.

Portugal is a possibility. Sicily is cheaper than Tuscany, Naples was cheaper for us than Rome, especially in housing. The French provinces are relatively cheap when it comes to B&Bs--you can have nice B&B's for 50€ to 60€ per night, or less if you are willing to take the basic room; check out Gites de France listings. The lunch specials where the locals eat are often cheap--we had one for 8€ which was a <i>plat du jour</i> plus wine and coffee. Car rental in France is cheaper than Italy if you are willing to have your credit card carry the CDW.

november moon, I must also say that I find Germany to be very affordable compared to most other European countries! What was expensive to you that you find in Germany?

To make our money go further, these are things we find useful:
1) stay in one city for a week and do 1-2 day trips (the less we move around, the cheaper it is)
2) Rent an apt and prepare breakfasts & dinners ourselves

Anyway, I think the French countryside (not the cities) is fairly affordable.

Also, while London/UK is "expensive", most museums in London are free so that will be a huge plus. The ones that are not free - you can get in with the 2-for-1 deal so that helps the wallet too. You'll just have to find a budget rental. There are many hole-in-the-wall eateries in London that you can get lunch fairly cheap, and tons of supermarkets for grocery shopping.

Turkey!

We found Lisbon and Budapest to be very affordable cities-on separate trips. Several cities in Spain were inexpensive depending on hotels and food costs.

So far in my travels Portugal was the least expensive country to visit for food and lodging. Not counting Lisbon and surrounding area you can eat a large dinner with wine for about $15.

You have just been to Prague but the rest of the Czech Republic is lovely. I spent about 10 days last year in Moravia (in the south) and the prices are dirt cheap. Beautiful scenery, plenty of sightseeing.

I'm in Poland now and find the prices here quite inexpensive, even in cities. However wine tends to be expensive in restaurants. If you are beer drinkers you'll have no problem with your budget. The people are very friendly and helpful and the cities are beautiful.

If you decide on Poland or the Czech Republic you need to be prepared for the cold in October and November. Portugal will be quite warm at that time.

Thanks for the suggestions. I really appreciate them. I was tossing around the idea of Budapest - it seems like a fascinating city. Poland has been in the back of my mind too. I hadn't thought of Portugal, but that is a fabulous idea. Turkey is an interesting idea - I saw a documentary about mosques in Istanbul, which really piqued my interest.

As for Germany - I didn't mean to imply that it was expensive. I am just looking for someplace cheaper. I used Germany for my example as a benchmark. For our last trip, we averaged about 95 euro/night for lodging and another 100 euro/day for food, drink, and incidentals. This is more than we personally want to spend on living expenses while traveling.

>about 95 euro/night for lodging and another 100 euro/day for food, drink, and incidentals

I'm puzzled hearing about people that spend so much money per day just for lodging. 95€ for a room is a bizarre, extreme amount of money that sounds to me like someone lodging in a chain hotel in the UK. I've never spend that much, nor do I know anybody that would spent that much and yes, I know quite a few folks :-). So what went wrong?
Chain hotels in big cities catering exclusively for overseas visitors? No knoledge of any, even basic German? Expecting dirty rooms just because the rate is low or even a bad breakfast?

I agree that you can easily spend much less than 95 Euro per night (incl. breakfast!) for a room in Germany and 100 Euro per day for food, drink and incidentals appears almost like luxury travel to me.

Seriously, and I certainly am not cheap when it comes to travelling and dining.

>...95 Euro per night (incl. breakfast!) for a room in Germany and 100 Euro per day for food, drink and incidentals appears almost like luxury travel to me.<

The US State Department Per Diem rates for Munich are $240 for lodging and $145 for Meals & Incidentals per person.

((I))

Consider staying in an apartment to lower costs. It's usually cheaper than a hotel, provides more space and you can cook some of your meals at "home".

>US State Department Per Diem rates
spoiled brats, no wonder the US is broke. 5 stars and some personal butler/escort service. You'll never see them at Ingolstädter street.

If it was me, I would rather think about where I wanted to go, and make arrangements based on a budget than choose a destination for its price.

(For example: London's expensive, but I love London. On a budget -- which I guess I always am -- I'd Priceline a hotel room, and plan to eat from take-out places and grocery stores rather than every meal in a restaurant. I'd walk a lot. I'd go to the free museums.)

eurocheapo.com a nice site for great budget deals all over.

My wife and I did 2 weeks in Italy in by Air with FF miles

mostly cheap hotels and regional trains from 2 euro per hour

hoteldelfino.com Otel.com $60

www.hotelpausania.it Otel.com 59euro

Sheraton Roma hotwire.com $69

We managed to come in around $1k pp

Had a wonderful time...

Portugal would be my #2

Greece and the East cheaper but lots dodgier...

Italy is truly amazing for us though our fav...

Happy Travels,

www.pensaomarazul.com many other similar places like this

in Portugal scenic with great price points cheap trains...

Logos - glad to know that like everybody else in the world, I am doing things wrong in your opinion ;)

I didn't actually come here to have my travel style picked apart, but such is life. As I said originally, I am interested in less expensive places to visit in Europe. But ask a question, get picked at. This IS Fodors, afterall.

So since Logos asked so nicely, here is a list of the hotels were I have stayed in Germany:

Hotel Laimerhof - Munich
Kings First Class - Munich
Motel One Sendlinger Tor - Munich
Hotel Victoria - Nuremburg
Hotel Am Josephsplatz - Nuremburg
Gasthof Reichold - Hochstahl
Barock Hotel Am Dom - Bamberg

The only chain hotel in the bunch was the Motel One - oh wait, the Hotel Am Josephsplatz is a Romantik Hotel, but I don't think that qualifies as a big international chain. I don't need a list of cheaper, equally good places to stay though since I am not planning a trip to Germany in the near future. The above list is provided for informational purposes only.

100 euro/day for 2 people doesn't seem extreme to me. We don't spend that everyday, but it is the limit we like to stay under. Beer alone can be a quarter of that budget. Read my trip report from last month's trip and you will understand.

So anyway, it is a big, big world out there. This isn't a case of "Oh, I wish I could go to London, but poor me, I can't afford it because I don't have a clue about how to travel cheaply, so I will take Lisbon as a consolation prize." If I had a burning desire to go to London above all else, I'd go to London. Now, if my husband's Godson makes the 2012 Olympic baseball team, then yeah - London here we come.

Budapest, Portugal, the Czech countryside, and Turkey - all seem to have great potential. I am leaving Spain off the list for now for a couple reasons - we are planning a trip there in a few years to walk the Camino and I have some pretty large business projects going on with some Spanish clients, which will likely result in several work trips over the next couple years.

You averaged 200 Euros/day in Germany? That's a lot. You will find nice apartments in Germany for around 50 Euros/night (and less) in the Rhine/Mosel region, a nice place to be in October.

This 2-BR apt. in St. Goar with view of the town and river gorge is 45/night for 3 nights, 43 for 4, 41 for 5:

http://www.st-goar.de/586-1-fewos.ht...d=586&clang=1#

4 of us stayed here in the Rheinblick (Rhine View) apt., which is similarly priced:

http://www.loreley-apartments.de/unsere_region_en.php

NY Times (Sunday, Sept. 25) Travel Section had a wonderful article on Moravia in Czech Republic. Looks to be a very easy drive or train ride from Vienna, and not far from Prague. Enjoy your travels!

I'm sorry I offended you. I'm sorry I posted.

To cut expenses, I sometimes stay in the city for 3 nights where the hotel prices are higher, but then I'll move to a smaller town where I usually stay CHEAP! My examples are Munich then on to Mittenwald. Overall I average a very reasonable rate. But I also travel solo for most of my trips.

I think Poland should be high on your list. Especially Krakow and Zakopane in the mountains. Altho Nov. might be late for Zakopane. We were there last year in early October and it was very pleasant.

I must say that I didn't find Budapest that cheap. I was there 2 years ago (we stayed in an apt) and I thought admissions to attraction were on par with most European cities. And I also didn't find restaurants particularly cheap, except for one hole-in-the-wall place we went to that was in a residential area near our apt.

I'll just throw this out there, recognizing that you stated you wanted to go to Europe...but have you considered Morocco? Once you get there, it's ridiculously cheap.

Germany's been the cheapest place, by far, out of our past several European trips.

In Germany (recent stays in Bavaria, Saxony, Alsace), we've stayed in simple, but comfy guesthouses or hotels and have never spent more than 50 euros/night, including breakfast.

Berlin was the cheapest place yet -- we had an amazing 1 BR apartment in a hip building in the heart of Prenzlauerberg for about 42 euros/night.

I know you just got back from Deutschland, but maybe revisit some of the more off the beaten path places in Germany? Or head to Berlin? Or a combo of both -- Berlin and the Harz mountain towns?

I've also heard Portugal is reasonable. Turkey was dirt cheap when I was there several years ago, but I know prices have risen since then.

We also had a very inexpensive stay in Naples, Italy this winter -- paid 50 euros for a nice little B&B in the heart of town and ate very cheaply, used a 3-day regional card for trains and buses, etc.

Also meant to add... if the Istanbul mosques lit your fire, maybe you'd also like Bosnia?

We're headed there soon. I've been able to find some good, inexpensive lodging, mostly 50 euros/night or less, except for Sarajevo, where we're spending 62 euros. Food seems to be pretty cheap, too, along with buses and trains.

From there, we're going to Croatia, where prices are a bit higher, but, again, we've been able to find some inexpensive guesthouses that get rave reviews for about $60-75 USD per night.

Let us know what you decide!

Why not drive around the Czech Republic and Hungary?

I, too, am not that taken with Budapest. Big city, not all that friendly as all big cities usually are, but the Hungarian countryside is lovely.

Look into driving around the big bend of the Danube, going up from Budapest to Szetendre and then around to Esztergom.

You could also visit some of the castles in the countryside of the Czech Republic, there seems to be tons of castles sprinkled all over the CR.

And then, there's the beer... :)

Germany and in particular Eastern Germany outside Berlin is very cheap
Hungary
Czech Rep outside Prague
Southern Italy
French countryside
Portugal outside Algarve (though when you want to go Algarve is negotiable)
Morocco (oh yes)

If you go to France, go to the local tourist office where ever you are and before 7:00 pm and ask them to show you their list of 'Chambre D'Hote' (ie Bed and Breakfast). It is a great way to stay with the locals and they range from an simple modern house to a Chateux. I have one: http://automaxionltd.com/brochures/ChambreDHote.pdf (not a chateux)

If you want to be really cheap try http://www.couchsurfing.org/

If you go to Poland do not miss Poznan and Wroclaw; both beautiful small cities with very friendly people and good food.

november_moon, the essential issues in you list are "hotel" and I'd bet "downtown". There aren't that many inexpensive hotels in major city centres. If you have to book over the internet, first try www.hrs.de and checkfelix.com

Any "Pension" is not only cheaper but better. The rooms are cleaner, the landord friendlier and the breakfast tastier. :-)
Why would you want to stay with the masses of international travellers that don't seem to care for money and pay more for less quality. Places without business people with lots of German clients is what you should look for. There are plenty. The local tourist info has many more alternatives than the internet. All you need is to remember to say "Good Morning" when you enter the breakfast room.

I didn't see France in your OP, but if your FF miles will take you to Paris, then I would also suggest Dijon or perhaps Alsace (probably best to base yourselves in Strasbourg although we prefer Nancy). Both are beautiful at that time of year. Rent an apartment and gorge yourself on tasty food from the charcuteries, markets etc, plus little restaurants (go to the residential or business neighborhoods and get one of the cheap lunch specials most restaurants offer - usually very good and filling and moderately priced). From Dijon, daytrip to Beaune and maybe Lyon. In Strasbourg, day trip to Nancy, Colmar, Metz, even Baden-Baden for a few hours lolling around a spa. None of those day trip options require a car.
If you're able to snag a cheap ticket, you could even have a day trip to Paris if so inclined.

Lastly, there's also Belgium. Holiday flats abound in both Brussels and Bruges. If you haven't been to Bruges, it's beautiful and can be especially captivating at night when the daytrippers have gone. From either city, you have lots of day trip options: Ghent, Leuven, Ieper, Antwerp, Delft, The Hague, or Paris, etc. Some people find it too cold and dark that time of year (November especially), but we hate summer so the temps are right up our alley.

Have fun travel planning and even more fun on your trip!

I know what you mean november_moon, we have looked for cheaper places too recently.

I highly recommend Portugal. It is VERY cheap compared to other European countries and we ate like kings. In Lisbon we had a 10 course tasting menu for €35 each! Wine is also VERY cheap! November will be off season and you can definitely find some cheap accomodation (like say €35 in a B&B) in places like Evora or Sintra. The Algarve will be more expensive.

Enjoy your planning!

"I'm sorry I offended you. I'm sorry I posted"

Oh hell Pavot - this is Fodors. I am not offended by your post and you should not be offended by mine. But, I accept your appology if you insist ;)

Morrocco is definitely on our list - not the Europe list, but definitely the general list.

Bosina and Croatia are good ideas too - I hadn't really though much about the Balkans, but they seem like they would fit the bill nicely.

Regarding Pensions and 'Chambre D'Hote' - are these usually places where you stay in a spare room in a family's home? Or set up more like an actual inn where the owners live on site, but there are many rooms, each with it's own bathroom? My comfort level is such that staying with a family of strangers is a non-starter - as is sharing a bathroom down the hall. I also have trouble just turning up somewhere and looking for a room - that is a leap of faith that I am just not comfortable taking.

I don't see from the original message what defines "inexpensive" for the OP in €. Choice is always there and lots of online booking services allow sorting accommodation by price. I would agree that Portugal is generally "inexpensive" country compared to other EU members. Generally speaking smaller towns will be cheaper than bigger cities; North is cheaper than South; intercity public transit is reasonable (average price in Portugal is around 5€ pp for 1 hr of travel). Meals are reasonable (we usually paid no more than 15-20 pp for good dinner with drinks & desert) in non touristy restaurants. Cafeteria type of meals are under 5, sandwich 2-3. Also went to Madeira which is beautiful & reasonably inexpensive.

Same true for Spain with exception of major tourist centers.

November: I started staying in pensiones because my European friends would do the booking of rooms. Apparently, most Europeans travel this way.

A pension/pensione is usually a professionally run bed-and-breakfast place with several guest rooms. Unlike the places on airbnb, these owners are in a business relationship with their guests, although most pension owners are very warm and welcoming and lend a great personal touch. Breakfast is usually included. Prices are very reasonable to boot.

It could be a wonderful experience. I'll never forget one Swiss pension owner who set out a fabulous breakfast and then sat with us and chatted for the whole morning. We learnt a lot about Switzerland in that one morning.

Do give the pension a try on your next trip!

november_moon,
>Or set up more like an actual inn where the owners live on site, but there are many rooms, each with it's own bathroom?

Of course, it's "just like a hotel", but the rooms are nicer and cleaner. Today, there's no way you can get the average German tourist to share a bathroom or things like that! The beds are better, the rate lower, it's always cleaner than any hotel and the owners either living "across the street" or in some seperate area in the house.