Imact of current middle east situation
 

I have been looking forward to visiting Turkey for years and planning a late September trip (and, this forum has been invaluable.) In the last week, my husband has been concerned about any potential impact the current middle east situation may have. Normally, I never worry about those things, but this time it has been nagging at me. This would mean dealing the trip to late spring, hoping the situation will improve. Thanks for your input.
Nancy

Nancy, I secretly share your concern. My husband's business has some input as to where he is able to travel. I am not too afraid of terrorism because I think that can happen almost anywhere at anytime. I am more concerned that I am investing very early for a trip next year and the situation may further decline and restrict our ability to travel to Turkey.

Hi,

There are no guarantees that there won't be problems next year, or the year after, etc.

As long as there are no bombs going off in Turkey, I suggest that you not change your plans.

((I))

I agree with Ira. What is the "potential impact" of the situation on Turkey or on any other country close to it such as Greece?

Some of us are far more concerned about the "potential impact" here in the US and I'm not even talking about terrorism.

Keep planning your trip.

I am planning a trip to Turkey in September 2007 and I am also worried about the current situation and potential danger. I realize that bad things can happen anywhere, but I might wait and plan my vacation in another locale.

Alison

In May 2008 The State of Israel will be 60 years old! Anybody wants to join me? I'm going if only planes will be flying!

I think it is too soon to know and folowing the situation is not unreasonable if Turkey is your destination. Turkey has been frequently named as a possible contributor to an international force in Lebanon. How the Turkish people will react to this, should the talk get more serious, is an interesting question. I think you should continue to ask around until your mind is really settled about it, one way or the other.

I've had sort of the opposite idea. Seems we should push up a trip to Turkey and the sooner the better just in case things get worse. I say that recalling how long it took to finally get to dubrovnik when we didn't go when we first had the idea. In fact, for a while I all but despaired of ever getting there.

I understand your security concerns, but neither State Dept or FCO released warnings on travel to Turkey. (After all, Turkey isn't THAT close to Lebanon, if you check a map...)

You may just want to use common-sense caution, stay alert in crowded place, and don't hang around near US Embassy.

Faina, we'll be there next yr, IF I can SURVIVE Haifa and Rosh Pinah in October...

I'm planning a trip to Israel in January and am not nervous at all. With the way things happen in that region, there's no way of telling what the future holds. For me, that means that I might as well plan a trip! Even if things were perfect today, next month they could be entirely different.

I've heard how beautiful Turkey is and can't wait to plan my own trip there as soon as possible! Have a wonderful time.

Hi
We planned a trip to Isreal for early sept. 06. We've changed our mind for this year. we've been to Istanbul and found it to be a great city to visit. The only place we have ever had a problem was Paris several years ago, when a tear gas bomb was set off near us, in the bldg next door to the cafe we were at. My wife ran inside, wyws tearing and coughing, as did I and other people sitting around. The police came quickly and the person were not caught. This is as close as I've been or want to be to terrorism.

I hate to bring this up, but I'm more worried about being Istanbul during the "big one" earthquake. Here's a headline from August 19, 1999, and the 1st paragraph from Science Daily:
MIT Researchers Monitoring Earthquakes In Turkey Say Istanbul Could Be Next Target

CAMBRIDGE, Mass. -- This week's earthquake, which killed thousands in northwestern Turkey, increased the likelihood of a future earthquake near the metropolis of Istanbul by increasing the forces on the fault just south of the city, say MIT researchers who have been studying earthquakes and tectonic deformation in Turkey since 1971.

If you're still reading, the url is:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0819070426.htm

For the record, we are going next summer.

nancy,

I have some friends that just got back from Turkey and they said that they were "welcomed with open arms" because tourism is down due to such concerns as yous.

My daughter was just in Israel and for the first few weeks it was fine, and then Lebanon happened and I wanted her out, but she felt safe in Jerusalem (she kept telling me that it's THEIR holy city too), though I had to get a Rx for valium til she left (and is now safe in Italy). The day after she got to Rome, the Jewish Federation was attached by some crazy person here in Seattle and one person was killed and five injured...it's just (unfortunately) a sad, crazy, angry world (sometimes).

So, if you really want to go, I'd say, go for it...

W9London,
The rabbi and congregation of the temple I go to here are still planning to go to Israel in Sept. I lived near Rosh Pina and it's very special, but while I was thinking of maybe going back next Spring, I'll probably wait awhile, but as others have pointed out, there are no guarantees anywhere really--good luck with your plans.

I just returned from Israel on July 11. I would go again tomorrow. I am now planning a trip to Cairo for Christmas. I want to have a picnic, on an Hermes cashmere blanket, under the gaze of the Sphinx on Christmas day.

I was in Istanbul last summer and would have no hesitation of getting on a plane an going back this week.

Bullocks to Hezbollah.

I agree with you, even if I might use different spelling ;).

I totally agree with you, Thingorjus!!!!!

It's Lebanon that is being destroyed.

Ah, my Rosh Pinah plan for October is off for the time being--though I sincerely hope life returning to normal (in relative terms).
DH found out from an organisation called hofesh-latzafon that hotels in northern Israel have announced a kind of "futures option", where one makes a reservation (and prsumedly pay) now, and redeems the voucher that's valid till June 07. If you're flying El Al from the US, you'll get $100 discount as well.

Apologies, re-posting it to Middle East forum.

I don't think anyone can predict with any degree of certainty what will happen next year (or next month for that matter).

However for what it's worth: Our son's girlfriend is vacationing (independent travel, not a tour group) in Turkey right now.

So far she reports that people have been very friendly, and in the few conversations she's had with Turks concerning the Middle East situation, they've been very supportive of US policy there--though less supportive when Israel is mentioned.

No bad incidents at all, yet (knock wood).

Turkey? I wouldn't worry -- yet.

But you might want to avoid Beirut for a while.

Easyjet just announced their new route London Luton to Istanbul....hmmm, must go there next. And Thingorjus, I must toddle over to the other board to read your Israel TR, certainly an instant classic.

Nancy
If you look at it from a pure geography and political perspective, I wouldn't worry. From a geography point of view, it's far enough from Lebanon and Israel that you don't have to worry. It borders on Syria in the south though I think that if Syria does join in the war, its unlikely that it would hit the Northern part (close to Turkey) and will most likely be in the south of Syria (close to Israel). From a political pt of view, I don't see Turkey joining the war either because they're Europeean enough to not fight against Israel and they're middle-eastern enough not to fight against places like Syria.
I would say, go, have fun! I wouldn't shout any pro-israeli slogans while walking down the street though.

Years ago before our first trip to Israel, I asked my 82 year old cousin, a very bright lady, who was also a travel agent and had traveled to Israel many many times, when was the best time to go.

She said, 'there is no best time. If you waited for the 'best time', you would never go.'

Don't change your plans, go now, you don't know what the future holds for you or for Turkey.

In 1986 there were all sorts of problems in France and my mother and daughter begged me not to go. I knew that if I cancelled out of fear, that that fear would always stay with me. I went, had a fabulous and safe trip.

During our trip Chernobyl and bombing Libya were major events, but not for us.

Yes, as another poster stated, it is Lebanon that is being destroyed, right along with Israel - but that's a whole other thread!

Nina

Imitation of Christ is NOT THINGORJUS. He is just that--an imitation. Thingorjus, a.k.a John G., has not posted on Fodor's for over two months, last as Balenciaga. He has no wish to return to Fodor's because, as he states, "all the best posters are gone." (i.e. cigalchanta, st. cirq, elaine, marilyn, nyfoodsnob, etc.)

Thingorjus is posting on another travel forum. He will never post his Iraeli trip report on Fodor's. In fact, he would like to have all of his old posts removed; that is how much he LOATHES Fodors.com.

Christine

Handmaiden - because we have chosen to continue to post on Fodor's, does that make us loosers?

I'm registered on ezBoard (probably the 'another travel forum" that you are referring to. I've seen quite a few former and current Fodorites posting there.

Some post the same trip reports, etc. on both forums.

If John G, etal, hates Fodor's so much why even have you mention it -
He should just fade into the night - giggling all the way.

I momentarily felt sad because some of the people who left Fodor's, were given so much sympathy and support for various family problems and health issues, all personnal problems, not travel related. They all had a lot to offer, but there are other posters here, with equal expertise. It will take a while, but they will be replaced and forgotten. That is, unless they tire of the other travel forum and return here.

Your post made it sound as if they were an elite clique, glad to get away from _us_ not just Fodor's. They left by choice (or at least most of them did), and some continue to post on both forums, why jump on us and why keep the name the other travel forum a secret - isn't everyone welcome on ezBoard????

Why are you still reading and responding to Fodors' posts - why haven't you moved on yet?

Nina

P.S. Handmaiden....
wanna bet that they aren't lurking as we speak? Old habits are hard to break.

I had made plans to visit Beirut, southern Lebanon, Syria and Jordan in the spring of 2007. Now Beirut is devastated along with large swaths of south lebanon. I've changed my plans and even intend to make it to Beirut unless I'm physically disallowed entry.

Go where you want to go while it still exists.

I meant to say, I've NOT changed my plans....

I also have plans to visit lebanon in Fall of 2007 and have no plans to change them unless there is no way to get into lebanon.

Nina - there's no secret about the ez board. It's just that if it gets linked to here then the thread tends to disappear, for understandable reasons.

Plenty of people (inc me, I have no idea about thingorjous)use this forum, the ez board forum, gum tree, thorn tree, virtual tourist etc.

There was some initial rancour at the ez board, but I don't think that's so true anymore. At least I hope not. It's not a competition, just different strokes for different folks.

No way travelerstogo could compete, or would want to compete, with Fodors or Frommers or any of the biggies backed by publishers. It's another pleasant travel community like virtualtourist or slowtrav but smaller.

People who travel evaluate risks all the time, some small risks like losing luggage or being bumped from a flight, some larger risks like local unrest or crime. If you think about the risks we run every day just getting out of bed and driving to work, the statistics in most cases aren't any worse abroad. That said, I wouldn't be personally booking a trip to either Beirut or Haifa right now; safety is one factor but, only speaking personally, visiting cities under siege seems frivolous to me.

I am reading this thread because I have a trip planned for next year. I have not been on this board in several years (different name)but noticed the absence of elaine and st. cirq who were very valuable resources for my previous trip to Europe. What happened to them?

Audere est facere ... I'm sorry about my faux pas. I stand corrected. What set me off was Handmaiden's unprompted OT venomous reply.

I have enjoyed Christine's informative posts in the past, and therefore was very surprised by her tone and content.

Yes, there are many other travel sites and we are all free to use them, as many as we want or don't want. There can never be too many sources for information, travel or otherwise.

Nina

uh, Traveler, that's real smart-why don't you tack on Iraq as well? After all, they have an American embassy and a government who works closely with the American govt. in all aspects of running the country-you DO know don't you, that the US Embassy is being staffed by only essential personnel, all others being sent home? It might behoove you to at least read the Travel Warning on Lebanon before embarking on your little Holiday to Hell.

and Nancy-on a much saner note...I DO hope you've read the consular information sheets carefully on Turkey-there have been terrorist attacks where European tourists have been killed in Turkey as recently as a bit over a month ago, this per the fState Dept. website:

SAFETY AND SECURITY: Terrorist bombings -- some with significant numbers of casualties -- over the past four years have struck religious, government, government-owned, political, tourist and business targets in a variety of locations in Turkey. The possibility of terrorist attacks, both transnational and indigenous, remains high.

Indigenous terrorist groups continue to target Turkish as well as U.S. and Western interests. In June 2004, the indigenous terrorist group, PKK/KADEK/Kongra-Gel, announced an end to their “unilateral ceasefire” and resumed violent activities. Two of the most significant incidents occurred in July 2005 in the town of Kusadasi, where bombs killed an Irish tourist and a British tourist. In the summer of 2005, incidents occurred in the popular coastal tourist destinations of Cesme, Bodrum, Antalya, and Mersin. Bombings have also taken place in Istanbul, injuring a Dutch citizen and several Turkish citizens. A Kurdish group ostensibly aligned with PKK terrorists, claimed responsibility for a number of bombings in tourist areas in the Aegean and Mediterranean coastal resort areas and in Istanbul. This group has also warned tourists not to visit the country.

Consistent with their threats, in June 2006 this group claimed responsibility for a restaurant explosion that killed three European tourists in Manavgat, a town in Antalya Province. Further attacks by this group could take place in Turkey without warning.

In late March and early April 2006, there was a wave of unrest in the southeast region of Turkey, where the PKK/KADEK/Kongra Gel has traditionally concentrated its activities. Violent clashes involving protestors and Turkish security forces occurred in the cities of Diyarbakir, Batman, Sirnak, and Sanliurfa, resulting in several deaths, many injuries, and extensive property damage. Please see the section on Southeast Turkey for additional information.

In Istanbul in 2005 and in 2006, there have been a variety of incidents, including small-scale bombings and violent demonstrations. Most, but not all, of these incidents have occurred in neighborhoods of the city not generally frequented by tourists. PKK/KADEK/Kongra-Gel supporters on a number of occasions in 2005 and 2006 have set public buses on fire after ordering passengers to disembark. On April 3, 2006, an attack of this type resulted in three deaths and at least one severe wounding. Thus far, all attacks on buses have taken place in areas of Istanbul distant from tourist destinations.

In November 2003 al-Qaida affiliated terrorists were responsible for four large suicide bombings in Istanbul that targeted Western interests. The British Consulate, HSBC Bank, and two synagogues were targeted by massive suicide truck bombs that killed dozens of people and wounded hundreds. These incidents represent a significant change from prior attacks in Turkey and show an increasing willingness on the part of the terrorists to attack Western targets.

In August 2005 Turkish police discovered what appears to have been a planned terrorist attack by a transnational group targeting maritime interests in Turkey. As indicated in the State Department’s Worldwide Caution Public Announcement, it is possible that transnational terrorist attacks could occur without warning.

Americans should exercise caution and good judgment, keep a low profile, and remain vigilant with regard to their personal security. Terrorists do not distinguish between official and civilian targets. As security is increased at official U.S. facilities, terrorists will seek softer targets. These may include facilities where Americans and Westerners are known to live, congregate, shop, or visit, especially hotels, clubs, restaurants, shopping centers, housing compounds, transportation systems, places of worship, schools, or outdoor recreation events or resorts and beaches.

Obviously, you have to decide your own personal comfort level when it comes to travel in areas that have had sustained terrorist activity, such as Turkey. It means NOTHING, however, when people come onto this board and give the following mantra:

Oh I was just in Istanbul, or Kusadasi in ----of last year, and I FELT PERFECTLY SAFE THERE.

Well of COURSE they felt safe-nothing happened to them! Don't you think that all the tourists that have been killed or injuried in these attacks in the cafes or markets or whereever they were ALSO felt safe just prior to the attack???

My point being is that it is a meaningless statement: "I felt perfectly safe when I was there"-because that's the whole point-a terrorist attack targeting tourist populations is SUPPOSED to occur without warning, in a place where it is LEAST expected-hotel zones, cafes, etc. So don't get lulled into thinking that simply because a number of persons state they "felt" safe that it has any real correspondence to the reality of the situation in a particular city or country-it does not-no correlation whatsoever.

Venomous? Are you kidding?

The reason I replied to this thread is because two posters above, not to mention other posters on other threads, have inferred that IOC is Thingorjus. IT IS NOT TRUE!

I have no idea what travel board Thingorjus is posting on. Would you like me to ask him for you?

Christine

nancy_m by all means take your trip. I passed up an opportunity to do something I really wanted to do and kicked myself for years! Finally realized that long-awaited dream last year, almost 30 years later.

As far as concern about earthquakes, I live in California (awaiting the "big one") and life goes on!

I didn't find Handmaiden's post offensive. Glad to hear that TG is not IOC. Loved TG's posts and not so fond of IOC's.

St. Cirque is still here, saw a post today. Elaine was banned, along with so many other knowledgeable people!

Girlspy, I'm not an American. Also, I said that unless I can't get there which means that if the situation is the way it is today then I couldn't really. The only way i can get there is if they re-open the airport etc. which tells me that the current conflict is either over or on hold.

Also, nancy was asking about the current conflict which people don't really think will affect Turkey. If you're worried about terrorist threats then that's a whole other can of worms but unrelated to the current conflict.

Giovanna, why were people banned from this forum?