I'm moving to Italy...one way or another
 

I am planning on moving to Italy his fall. I have been emailing consulates, browsing countless websites, and generally paining government agencies trying to get any straight answer...which I have not gotten, as yet.

I want to be able to go and choose from Florence, Bologna, and Venice, which I want to live, be able to look at apartments and homes before making a decision, and find a job near my place of chosen residence. However, none of our visas allow for this. They all want you to have a job and a place of residence and apply for the pertinent visa before even leaving the US.

To any of you out there who successfully live and work outside of the US, is there any way around the mountains of red tape? Any advice is much appreciated.

RozPrince

You are dealing with sovereign nations who have no interest in your "one way or another". Sorry - you need to follow the rules. If they are too confusing suggest you consult a specialist attorney.

If you simply want to do whatever you want - suggest you go on a tourist visa and just stay on until they find you and deport you. Why not go and visit these cities and see which you like - then you can start a very long an complicated job search process? Indigent immigrants are not welcome, just as they are not welcome in the US.

Don't see how you would ever get a job in Italy without a work visa - and typically the employer works to provide this before you arrive. If you have a LOT of money you may be able to buy some business that would help you in some countries - but not sure about Italy.

And how is your Italian? If you can't speak it fluently how will you find a job there?

>> is there any way around the mountains of red tape?<<

No

Thanks for the reply. Took four years of Italian in college. Not fluent, but working on it every day. It's sad that they do not offer any special situations visas. Finding a job is usually a process in itself, I have the money to support myself there for roughly three years, but want to be able to work, I'd go crazy not working for three years. The elective residence visa allows me to get there without a job, but does not allow me to work while there on that particular visa. The work visa allows me to work, but I have to have a residence and job prior to being there. I just wondered if there was any way to get there and find a place and job without having to apply for all the visas before I even leave the US, not saying I don't want the visa at all. It would just be nice if I could apply for it once I got there. Didn't know if anyone with the experience of living there knew of a way to do this instead of having to be in the US to apply for a visa.

It's sad that they do not offer any special situations visas.

Why is your situation so special? I imagine your country is not offering them up either. Best of luck.

No there is no way to apply once you are there. You can't get around the rules.

I can work in Italy as I am married to an Italian, otherwise it would be impossible for me as well as my birth country is non-Schengen.

No getting around the rules - you need some patience.

Also, what kind of work do you do? You may find the locals prefer to support their own rather than someone new from an English speaking country.

Unless you have a special skill you are not likely to find employment in Italy. The Italian unemployment rate is over 11 percent and for youths it is about 36 percent.

In the USA unemployment is presently under 5%,

You have to play by the rules like everyone else.

<<I just wondered if there was any way to get there and find a place and job without having to apply for all the visas before I even leave the US>>

No, there isn't.

I don't understand what your special situation is. There are lots of Italians who would love to live and work in the US, but there are no special situation visas for them, either. There are basically four ways to get a visa, and almost all developed countries have the same rules.

1. Be offered a job in the country. In Europe and in the US, the company offering you a job has to prove that you're uniquely qualified to do the work, and that they couldn't find any of their own citizens who could do the same work. I've known researchers in the US who got a US visa this way. Sometimes they really had special qualifications, and sometimes the university carefully defined the requirements so that hardly anyone could meet them except the guy they wanted to hire. I once got a job in the Netherlands this way, but I really did have special qualifications. My employer had to prove they'd actually done a job search before settling on me.

2. What you call elective residence, which is mostly the path chosen by people who want to retire abroad. In this case you have to prove that you have sufficient income to maintain yourself without working or depending on Italian social services.

3. Marry a citizen of the country. That's what I did, but I moved to Italy because I got married, not the other way around.

4. Invest enough money in the economy of the country to create something like 50 jobs. I'm not sure what the rules are in Italy for this type of visa, or if they even have this type of visa.

Another avenue might be working for a US or international company that also has a presence in Italy. What type of work do you do?

"One way or the other?" Fine, go ahead.

What if you go on an elective residence visa, use your time to choose a place you like and to job hunt; then, with job offer in hand from a company that understands your situation, exit Italy, return to the US, and apply for a work visa?

I am not an expert by any means, so you'd have to make sure this is workable even in theory.

And I think it's going to be hard to find a job at all, but I don't know your field.

Roz - you link to your website in your profile, and there you say you are interested in doing a masters. Is that something you could do in Italy, and get a student visa for?

Alternatively, you can visit Italy, and look at places to live on a tourist visa (or, rather, visa-free entry), but you're unlikely to be able to get a job if you can't show you're legally allowed to work.

You can't go on an elective residence visa unless you have boatlaods of money and can prove it.

http://www.relocatemagazine.com/arti...residence-visa

"then, with job offer in hand from a company that understands your situation, exit Italy, return to the US, and apply for a work visa"

You can't apply for a work visa. The company first has to demonstrate that it has searched throughout the EEA (EU+a few more) and failed to find a suitable candidate with Europeam citizenship. The employer then applies for a work permit for you.

If all works, but you later get fired or quit, you get deported.

We don't want you. Any more than your country wants us. You'd use your life far more usefully if you accepted that.

If working abroad really matters, work for a global company, then get transferred internally, become a global expert on something or work for those bits of the US government (like the State Dept) that send people abroad.

I can't for a nanosecond see any legitimate reason why an Italian company would want to hire an American, unless you have an extraordinarily unique skill - in which case you'd be able to network your way to the job without any help from here. There are close to 100 million people with citizenship of an EEA country far more fluent in English than you, for example.

nytraveler, blueeyedcod, maxima, kytravel, newbe, nonconformist, thanks for your helpful information.

Marry a EU citizen. [I'd be careful about marrying a brit though, as things stand]. then you can use their citizenship to get yourself into Italy.

It might take you a few years though.

<i> You can't go on an elective residence visa unless you have boatlaods of money and can prove it.

http://www.relocatemagazine.com/arti...residence-visa

</i>

That article has no substance. There is a specific table that shows the amount of income you need to prove you can sustain yourself independently. It's from 16 years ago, but in 2011 they applied a multiplier of 3 to the amounts in the table. I can't find any further adjustments, but there's been no inflation to speak of since then, so I imagine the multiplier is still 3. The table is at the end of the following document.

http://www.esteri.it/mae/normative/n...o_1-3-2000.pdf

With a multiplier of 3, a single person would need an annual income of about €30,500, and a married couple would need €37,300. That doesn't sound like boatloads of money to me. Anyone with a decent pension could probably pass the test.

You would also, at least for the first five years, be required to make a contribution to the national health plan if you wanted to participate in it. It's based on income, and would come to about €2000 per year if your annual income were €30,500. After five years, you can become a permanent resident, and I think at that point you're entitled to national health coverage without a contribution. After ten years, you're eligible for citizenship.

>>With a multiplier of 3, a single person would need an annual income of about €30,500, and a married couple would need €37,300. That doesn't sound like boatloads of money to me. Anyone with a decent pension could probably pass the test. <<

But the €30,500 can't be wages and I'm pretty sure the OP doesn't have a pension.

It's still not boatloads of money; that characterization is all that I was contesting.

The article in Relocation Magazine was 100% fact-free. It made it sound as though the criteria were at the discretion of the consulate.

I would suggest the OP use the 90 day Schengen time as an immersion before they make any drastic decisions. Find an Air BnB or equivalent in the burbs - not the charming zones as they are mostly unaffordable, see what day to day life is like, only speak Italian - even at home to each other.
Lots of people have the 'Under the Tuscan Sun' fantasy (not renovating a house necessarily) but the reality is somewhat different.

For all the freaking naysairs, she can go to Italy and may be able to find a job. She can teach English, or become an interpeter or work in the hospitality field, or even marry to an Italian. I would say, go there and find out what is going on. You would be surprise to realize that we make such a storm of any issue, and it becomes not so complicated after all. Go ahead and go, and experience for yourself. I send you all green lights.

I just find it odd that someone wants to permanently move to a place without even knowing much about it. And she wants to move first, and then explore around to decide where she wants to live. It would make more sense to visit Italy and find a place you want to live, then move there (if possible). This isn't a trivial thing like neighborhood, she doesn't even know what city she wants to live in.

There isn't any way in the world someone with only 4 years of Italian who isn't fluent can become an interpreter. And just because someone has English as their native language does not make them qualified to be a teacher, unfortunately, a lot of people have that impression.

Claudia23603,

It is always good to give support for people's dreams. It looks as if you joined Fodors to do that. Have you done something similar in recent years? Real (recent) concrete, personal experience would be extremely useful to the OP and informative for other posters. I hope you can offer other ideas for the OP because I fear the jobs you suggested are no longer appropriate or as available as they once were.

As pointed out, an interpreter must be fluent in both languages. Schengen laws now make it illegal for hotels, etc. to hire non-residents unless there are no qualified residents and that is unlikely in that industry. TESL requires knowledge of construction and grammar, not just vocabulary.

If they acquire teaching credentials, the OP could apply for a job with an International school or an American overseas school. It may take 1-3 years. The OP might have to take a position in another country, then transfer.

If the OP has a unique skill or can acquire one, they can seek work with an international company that would help them make the move. They might have to move from country to country until they are established.

There are military bases in Italy. The OP could consider joining the military and be stationed there.

The OP can become monetarily independent and apply for proper residency.

Such a move is certainly possible, but the OP is more likely to achieve their dream if they prepare and also follow the rules.

You say you want to live there but you have no intention of following the rules which "there" has set down. Frankly, I hope they NEVER let you in and why should they?

Dukey...you always seem to come through. My feeling exactly.
In my 70 years of travel, I have come across ex-pats everywhere in the world...most of whom admit that they are going "home" someday.

My youngest daughter and her husband are living and working in Merida, Yucatan. I hope she will be coming home some day.

The OP still hasn't provided any info on what type of career they hae - which might help with perspective on how to find something similar in Italy. If they have no specific skills - hard to imagine how they would ever qualify for a job there.

Last year when we were looking for a new junior for our department we interviewed one young woman who was not open about her immigration status until I pressured her. It turned out the job she had was an extension of a special job she qualified for as part of her university experience. And while she was qualified she was no more qualified than 3 or 4 applicants who were US citizens. Our HR person asked the legal department how to handle this and they said there was no way we could hire her. First we would have had to show their was no one local who could do the job (not true, there were several). And if we had been able to they said it would take several months and cost the company in excess of $15K to get permission to hire her.

That is exactly the position you're in - except you're not already in Italy, are not fluent in Italian and don't already have specific skills that you have mentioned.

The OP has her ocupation-related website in her profile.

Thanks, Elberko. I hadn't noticed that. The OP should go ahead and get that PhD, and get a position with an international firm that has a branch in Italy. Will take time, but doable and legal.

Yes, it's difficult but not impossible as some posters here would like you to believe.

Have you looked into freelancing? I know a friend who was able to get a residence permit in France that way. You need to prove that you have a business plan and that you can support yourself for some time. Germany, too, has a freelancing visa but I'm not sure about Italy.

Pursuing a Masters degree also helps. Many European countries give international students a one-year extension after graduating so they can search for a job. If you find a job within that period, employers can hire you immediately without having to prove that no local candidates can do your job.

I suggest you pursue a Masters degree or PHD. That will temporarily fulfill your dream of living in Italy.

"You can't apply for a work visa. The company first has to demonstrate that it has searched throughout the EEA (EU+a few more) and failed to find a suitable candidate with European citizenship."

That is true. But this rule doesn't apply to foreign students who are studying in Europe. If you find a job within one year after graduation, you can get hired immediately. Employers don't have to prove that they failed to find a suitable EU candidate.

But the difficult part is finding a job.

I'm a dutch woman living in Italy. I just say follow your heart and give it a try. Even it's very tough to find a job in Italy! I'm a nurse, also recognised in Italy and I started with a cleaning job for €6 an hour!! I hope you know already people in Italy who really can help you, otherways it isn't easy. Also in the North nowadays it's very difficult to find a well paid job, even teaching English! But, I repeat, if you have some saved money and you do not need to work immediatly, you have to try it!
Just go there with the tourist visa and find a job, another solution can be that you start something for yourself, then you can also stay here but it is expensive and will cost you at least €3500 a year, even if you don't earn anything!
I wish you good luck and I hope for you that your wish comes true....

>>It's sad that they do not offer any special situations visas<<

That's because everyone has a "special" situation.

It would seem to me that the inevitable first step is finding a job, which you want to do when you get there and which isn't going to happen. That said, it also seems to me that while in the US you would want to investigate jobs with companies that have facilities in Italy and see if you can get hired. Not saying that would be a piece of cake, but neither are the other options. In fact, not only are they not a piece of cake, but there often is no cake at all.

Seems the OP has left this thread almost 2 months ago.

Probably moved to New Jersey.

Ya gotta problem with Jerzey??? ;-)

Should have put a "Yo...!!!" at the beginning. ;-)

given that most of italian contacts are trying to move to UK, I'd be amazed. The reason they are leaving is that they don't "know" the right people.

Now a foreigner...

Oh, an old thread. My comment was going to be to ask if the person had been to Italy before. You really can't tell from the wording of their post.