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If you're just planningyour trip, please read this!
I am seeing more and more posts on Fodors that are just way too general for the poster to get good information.
They are along the lines of "I'm going to Rome (or NYC, or Paris, or where ever). Where should I stay, what should I see, where should I eat, how should I get around, what should I pack, how will the weather be...?" What the heck?! Are we supposed to plan their whole vacation for them? So my advice - ask one or two questions per post. Make sure your title reflects the details of your post. Try to be specific in each post. Investigate hotels (or restaurants, or whatever) and then ask for opinions between a few of them. Buy some guide books (or get them from the library) to get a handle on sites. No one can be expected to list all the tours in Paris, all the museums in NYC, or all the fountains in Rome. Plus - only you know what you're interested in! |
Another good research tool is here - click on the Destinations link. There is lots of info about many places plus suggested itineraries for 3 days or 5 days, etc.
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Likewise, please heed the advice, shown the Fodors FAQs, to refer to your destination(s) in the message header ("title") of your posting.
I can understand how this can be difficult when planning a multi-country trip - - and especially in the beginining when you have general questions about time allocation, or order of your itinerary, or logistics for transport from point A to B to C , etc... In those cases, it really is good to focus on the one question that is most perplexing to you, and let your message header reflect that... but then provide as much as context info as possoible in the body of your post. Best wishes, Rex |
wliwl, in a word, yes, I believe we are asked to plan the poster's entire vacation. I see these general questions alot on another site as well. It seems as though the posters think of us as unpaid travel consultants the way I come to see it after seeing many similar posts. I agree with you and the simplest thing is to read through a bought or a borrowed guidebook.
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If the posting is asking all those questions in one post I agree with you BUT in the last couple of days I posted as to how to get around in Naples.......very open question.
I received invaluable answers and went to research the Metro which was very helpful. No one forces you to answer the questions asked so if you feel the questions are too vague don't answer. Many times when the questions are very open ended it's a question from a newbie traveller and they have no idea where to begin. We help them decide where to start and make their planning easier. You can always answer just one question and ignore the others if you feel too many are being asked in one posting. The options are yours but surely we can tolerate folks without enough experience to be able to form a tighter questions. |
It seems like no one reads books anymore, and it's almost too much trouble to even use Google to find information for yourself. And does anyone still send off for the tourist brochures? I love getting those packets and not knowing what the tourist office might have stuffed in there. Maison de France sends me repeat packages every so often (unsolicited) and offices in the German towns sent fantastic brochures and maps when I was planning the 2003 trip. And many French towns sent great packages as well when I was planning the 2004 Loire Valley trip.
I don't want to take somebody else's trip - I want to take <i>my</i> trip, and that will only happen if I plan it myself. <i>Then</i> I might seek some additional information, directions, or details that I really couldn't find myself. |
timlin: No, asking how to get around in Naples is not what I'm talking about. If you posted, "I'm planning on going to Italy in May 2006. Tell me where you think I should go. Maybe Naples? Maybe Rome? Maybe with a day trip to Venice/Florence/Cinque Terre? What should I see while I'm there? Is 6 days too long/too short? Can you recommend accomodations that are centrally located?" Or, if you had posted, "getting around" as your title.
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I think one can improve one's chances of getting replies, not to mention useful replies, by demonstrating that one has put some effort into the planning before posting the question.
Very often the answer to one's question has already been posted. Even though the search feature may not be reliable here, I wish the new poster would at least call up all the postings on his country of choice and read them before posting; that's only common courtesy. |
Timlin, I agree with you. If a question's too general, skip it. Not everyone's real familiar with internet boards either.
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I don't understand what being familiar with the 'internet boards' have to do with this. If you did a bit of research you would ask specific questions and not just broad, general questions in any forum.
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If I knew any easy way to do it, I would set up something much more like a "chat room" as a "place to start" for those who have recently made that initial decision... "to go to Europe" (for the first time).
Many of "us" see these questions, and "they" make it sound like they think it's a "binary" question... (to or not to go to Europe) - - like "I've decided to try drinking decaffeinated coffee" or "I've decided to start asking for plastic instead of paper at the grocery store"... as if... once they've decided "to go" - - they want to know what is the "prescribed" itinerary (they often call it "the best places"), what are the things you need to know, what must I not "miss", how do I avoid making the most common mistakes? As if "it" is just this one place, with one trip "around (the Monopoly board)"... [LOL... there are several analogies... are the "railroads" good? or not worth fooling with? little green houses? or big red hotels? any all that funny colored money!] This forum works "okay" to draw them out... to get them to go through the twenty questions that frames their decision in some kind of context... what makes them think they want to go to Europe at all? what do they see when they close their eyes, and think... "I can't wait until I get to Europe so that I can........"? Of course, in three days, this thread will have sunk to(wards) the bottom, and some green newbie will ask these same kinds of questions... with a message header like "Trip to Europe". And we'll muddle through... :) |
Because I assume a lot of people don't even know where to start especially if they've never been to Europe (or wherever.) And if they usually use the internet to send jokes via email to their friends & aren't familiar with HOW to use it for research they might ask rather broad questions.
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When I started here over 7 years ago, I remember someone's advice (was it you, Rex?) of doing your homework first (research Fodor's, visit a bookstore and read guides, internet research, library, etc.) and then post your questions. It was great advice for us - we always start with research here and other places and many hours at a bookstore and then post questions. That way, questions are specific to your need for advice, suggestions, etc. and you will get more out of the responses from all the experienced travelers here.
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wliwl gives good basic advice-
But I also think it's fine if people ask questions however they need to- and if one of the more experienced posters can briefly inform them on ways to start their own research, then return with more specific questions, as Rex (maybe him, or another regular) did for Marianna, there is no problem. Giving new travelers a jump start is a good thing, if if helps them return and use the forums in a more efficient way. And it encourages them to ask more confident questions. Of course it's possible some new posters may wish "we" would plan their vacations for them. Nothing wrong with that, since we're not forced to feed anyone answers here, except at our own leisure/pleasure! |
I still have to say, it's a little odd that people will get to the home page, ignore all the big type, skip the bold-face teasers, look at the menu bar, skip ofer "destinations hotels restaurants" and then ask "where should I stay? what should I see? where should I eat? Any suggestions?"
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Dunno about you guys, but to my wife and I, planning our own journeys, browsing the bookstores, even buying one or two books on the region, checking out the Sunday travel pages, etc. ..this is all part of the fun and excitement...we start many months in advance...this is true traveling and actually part of the trip itself.
Fodors is a good place to go to AFTER all of the above..then your headings and questions can be more direct and the answers likewise. In summation, Fodors is a good place to visit when you know a little more about the place YOU want to visit. Remember, statstics show that only 11% of today's American adults have ever visited a foreign country other than Canada or Mexico. Stu |
<<I still have to say, it's a little odd that people will get to the home page, ignore all the big type, skip the bold-face teasers, look at the menu bar, skip ofer "destinations hotels restaurants" and then ask...>>
It doesn't necessarily happen that way - - maybe never had to, but especially since individual threads can come up on a Google search... a newbie might jump right to the Europe forum, and feel like they have landed in "Answer Nirvana" without grasping the nature of the entire Fodors.com web site. |
For general questions I would ask simply to please include length of the trip & budget.
I enjoy the vague posts because it leaves the most room for all kinds of suggestions. But facts such as they have already purchased plane tickets, are backpacking or going 5-star, do or don't want to drive/rent car are valuable for us to know before we attempt to assist. |
OK OK - I will say it. "I need you." Now does that make everyone feel better? What I need this week is to be able to say, "I've gone to Paris, lived in Europe for a year, can speak french BUT now I need a real good suggestion of something special". That is, a special waiter at a restaurant that will not be upset at the 7 of us showing up. Or, someone who will guide me to the best van operator at CDG that will give us a quick overview of the city as we say "hello, we are finally all here together"!!! I am excited about our family's travel plans for Christmas and want you all to be as well! If anyone wants to help, I'd be glad to hear suggestions.
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MelMarena1, here's a suggestion - don't show up at any Paris restaurant with 7 people and expect to get a special waiter, or even a seat. Can you say "réservation?"
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I would think that one would be even more interested in reading guidebooks and checking the internet for a firsttime trip abroad. As another poster said, how can one miss or not care to read the different sections here at Fodors? They're even broken down by categories.
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Oh la and la, mon cher cirq... I did not mean un-announced. I meant a family AVEC reservation. We are not a cute little pair of love birds. We are a big family. Get it?
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Glad to hear that, MalMarena! I think the upstairs room at Bofinger is always a good place for a sizeable group. It's also very festive, the cuisine is perfect for holiday meals (hearty Alsatian and other rib-sticking dishes), and the waiters unfailingly gracious.
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I didn't think of that Rex. That would explain some of it.
However, there's still the glaring orange tool bar an inch above this post. I know people are afraid that if they make too narrow a request, that they'll "miss something". But that's generally not a problem here. If people understand what you're looking for, they'll generally tell you about something similar that you might like even better, even if it's in a different part of town or costs more or the restaurant is Moroccan instead of Indian. As I have often said, one person's dream vacation is many people's nightmare -- so know what you're asking! |
MelMarena:
I left a message for you under your other post about Paris. Click on your name to find it. |
Just saw the link - incredible - thanks, wliwl!
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Dear wliwl,
I heartily agree with your "what the heck?" statement. I reply less and less these days. I expended a lot of energy and information in the early days, but now I just feel like posting back "Get a guidebook - a used one if you have to!" Esp. the posts which demand all the "must-sees" - I mean really, if you can log onto the internet, you can log onto a city's official website and start from there. |
So why, exactly, are we here if not to gently guide the very inexperienced traveler in his quest for information? Are we here just to post our own wonderful, memorable trip reports? Agreed that posters "should" do research on their own. However, the very young and the very inexperienced need our encouragement and help. They do not need to be scolded for not being "correct" with their postings; they need our responses as best we can offer. I'm more impatient with the travel know-it-alls than with the greenhorns.
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<< They do not need to be scolded for not being "correct" with their postings... >>
I don't think that the initial premise was about << not being "correct" ... >> Rather it was about failing to convey that they have even begun to think about what criteria, what priority are their questions... and sound as if they have never cracked a book, Sometimes, the answer is quite simple. Point them in the direction of a major library or bookstore. In the very earliest stages after (tentatively) making the decision to go to xxx - - books are a lot more useful than the internet, in my opinion. New greenhorn trip planners are, understandably, a bit overwhelmed with not knowing where to start. Still, the "dialogue" can be so much more effective if they lay out at least a few clues as to the things they have <i>begun</i> to think through - - we think we want to go to these destinations, and maybe travel in this season, by this means, and stay in hotels something like this. This provides so many more opportunities to engage them... "we" can say... "no, no.. you'll want to change this fundamental assumption" - - or "good idea to want do x or y or z" and then add "here's the next things you'll want to think about" or "here are some excellent resources on the internet to supplement your reading"... or "my experience with xxx was that we needed to abcdefgh..." |
crckwc: You have misinterpreted my post.
It was merely my thoughts on how a poster can get BETTER information than one or two incomplete responses - and then their post ends up being #230. |
It seems we all will go out of business -- business of sharing personal experiences. Books do not give that personal touch. Innocent travel questions come from reluctance. We do have a choice of not to share or respond. Even an experienced travel does get some nice tips from a first-time traveler. Quite often some "simple" (I wouldn't classify them as 'silly') pop-up and in an open-to-all forum we need to probably live with it.
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WOW, As someone who just started using this site, I would like to add my two cents to this conversation.
We are not asking you to be a "free travel consultant" we are just bouncing ideas around and looking for someone who may have had the same idea or who actually taken the same trip. I can only speak for myself but i have purchase 3 travel books in the last 3 weeks ($68 retail value) have been to Rick steves, frommers, lonely planet, solo travel portal and various other sites on the web and my office cube is now papered with rail maps of Europe. I have done my homework. But the answers that you get here at this site are very thoughtful, full of insight,funny and encouraging. I often read these boards several times a day. The point is that when I stumbled across this board, I was hooked and I recommend it to anyone planning a adventure! Anyway thats my two cents. |
wliwl -- I wasn't disagreeing with the main point of your post. Rather I was reacting to phrases such as "unpaid travel consultants," and a general tone of what I took to be superiority on the part of more experienced travelers. If I misinterpreted and read more into some comments than was intended, then I apologize.
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You certainly do have an option of investing your time and sharing invaluable info with other people or this forum, or not.
I love doing research, and I have already bought AND read 4 different Paris books. Still, I have asked multiple questions of various nature not because I would like to take advantage of people and treat them as my UNPAID personal travel consultants, but because I find information on this forum extremely informative and valuable.I do appreciate everybody's time invested in posting responses on this forum. If someone feels he/she is being taken advantage of (read: used), then maybe the person does not have to feel obliged to participate in forum posting. There is NO need to treat people in a disrespectful manner, no matter how basic their questions may be. Sincerely, Agnes |
And there is absolutely no reason not to THANK people for sharing information, no matter how trivial, and also to ignore posters because they aren't your fave person. Good answers are good ones regardless of where they come from.
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Good reply Intrepid1 :-)!
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A couple of months ago I was banned by Fodors with the simple admonishment to read the posting rules. That didn't tell me much. Then I noticed that my comments to one poster had been deleted. Those comments said something to the effect of using the search box before asking and that the question was about as general as asking what kind of car should the poster buy. Some Fodorites did not like my tone. Apparently corporate didn't either and I was in the slammer for a month or so. I have only asked a question here a few times over the years but I have taken vicarious pleasure in answering scores of others. I think that the right thing to do with too general questions is as Carrybean says. Ignore them. But once in a while I will paste the URL to a previous question on the same exact topic, e.g. the three recent questions about what to do with teenagers in Amsterdam. |
The real question is: what was your motive, Agnes... in excavating this contentious old thread?
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I just stumbled upon it. I did not see it was this old, I admit.
I thought I would comment on it. No hidden agenda, really. A |
I'm curious - not being rude, truly curious. How does one "stumble" across a 7 month old thread?
What did you search on??? |
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