I dream of Europe
 

Hello there, this is just more of a wishful thinking post. I can't travel to Europe for the foreseeable future and I feel really deprived. It is more of a matter of time than money, but both are huge factors. There is still so much to see there and my time is ticking. I have not been to Greece, Turkey, Portugal, Germany, Eastern Europe.

What are your tips and tricks for getting away? How do you manage to find the time? I envy those on the East coast because distance is so much smaller. Feeling stuck on the West coast.

As far as money, it is possible to travel very inexpensively if you are willing to give up nicer hotels.

We have traveled through Europe and stayed at B&B's, small inns, dorm rooms at major universities (for about $25/night incl. breakfast). My parents traveled throughout England for many years with 3 kids in tow by bicycling and staying at hostels. My god daughter is traveling throughout Europe and has budgeted $4000 for 3+ months. She is probably spending about $40/day and from what I can tell she is having a great time!

As far as time that is a different thing. I guess it depends on your priorities. I had a wonderful office job for many years and decided if I had to chose I'd make sure I put away two weeks each year for vacation. Remember life is short and unless it is your own business, you deserve some time off to enjoy life.

What do you mean about time? Do you have a job with vacation time or not? Most people do (at least on Fodors). I don't get that much vacation time compared to many with my tenure, but I get 3 weeks a year, so I can easily use that to go to Europe, at least some of it. I always save a week for other things.

If you are your own boss, there is no excuse to say you have no time, most businesses you don't need to be working every week, and ifyou have one that you can't shut down, you should have other employees and delegate.

And if you have no vacation or very little and money really isn't a problem, you could take leave w/o pay, I would imagine. I could too but am the sole wage earner in my household in my prime years, so don't want to go that route, I make do with 3 weeks. If you have a job where they don't let you go even if it's a benefit, that's your choice, you can find other jobs probably. I've actually never worked in a place like that, I wouldn't choose such a job, but I've heard of it.

I used to live in LA and it is a lot better living on the East Coast re air travel to Europe, that is for sure. But that still only adds about 6 hours each way. I just stretch mine out by doing them around holidays, for one thing. LIke recently I went to Europe from 10/1 to 10/13, so 12 days. But I only had to take 8 days vacation due to the two weekends and Columbus Day holiday.

Pintxos--I can relate. My SO is a freelancer and it took me ten years to convince him to take a vacation (and actually it wasn't me who convinced him it was his agent when he threatened to quit).

We've now gotten to a point where we almost always take two two-week vacations a year--but it's hard to predict a time when he won't have to pass up any good projects (a holiday fun killer if ever there was one).

And we live on the west coast so I can certainly relate re: travel times.

I can guarantee that there will be countries full of people in Europe sat staring at screen savers of the American West Coast, just wishing and dreaming.

If that is any consolation.

Life begins when the kids leave home and the dog dies.

Of our 30 trips to Europe, 23 of them have been after we got our AARP cards.

I have to produce a certain number of billable hours per year. Plus I have a small child in school, so we have to work around his school schedule. Thanks for indulging me. It's great to hear from other people who think alike. Most of my co-workers would rather buy furniture or other stuff, than travel.

And thank you for being kind. I was fully expecting an attack accusing me of being stupid for posting this pointless thread.

If they are your life goals, I would not wait even it means travels coming in just one week pieces. In one of my social group of 12 couples, three women passed away this year from various illnesses leaving three husbands with unfulfilled life plans as couples they were planning to do someday "after they retired."
It takes me minimum 16 hours of flying and two planes to reach Italy. But if one week was all I could get because of the school schedules, I still went to Italy.
If you reach a point where you can no longer travel, would you kick you self for not having traveled to Turkey, Greece, etc, even it meant being able to spend only a limited amount of time?

Agree being on the east coast is an advantage. We can be in London almost as fast as we can get to LA - given the prevailing tailwinds.

Our problem too is time at this point but we hope soon - 1.5 to 2 years that will be resolved - and then we will have both time and money (when I had lots of time there wasn;t that much money - although I managed to do a lot of more modest trips).

I too am a frustrated traveller. I live in Australia: it's pretty normal for a flight to take 30hours or so to Europe and the cost is normally around $2000 for cattle class booked months in advance. That means that I feel that I must travel for at least 3-4 weeks to make it worth while. Combine that with job, kids, dog and reluctant husband, I can relate. I spend a lot of time day dreaming.

I think there are tricks and there is luck. I guess a good start is working in Europe means that 2 weeks of holiday is not even on the horizon, even when I was attached to the pay-cheque I used to get 5 weeks, though a Dutch friend of mine manages to get by on 6 months (yes it is a full time job) holiday. So first choose where you work.

Secondly I think choose what you want to do. I know this sounds easy but Mrs Bilbo bought me "Business in a Backpack" for a Christmas present a few years back that changed the way I thought about the "work" part about life. This change of thought then helped Mrs Bilbo think about where she and when she works. As a result I've been on holiday with her and she just has to step out of the holiday for a few hours to earn some bucks and then she is back on again.

Don't have a dog, have a cat. Cats, being more attracted to territory rather than people, mean that you can go out and he can stay put (as long as food etc keeps coming), if you want more affection get a Maine Coon or similar.

I was lucky my parents used to dump me to go on holiday for weeks, I remember being asked by my teachers, "but how do I reach them if there is a problem" and I had to explain stuff like "well you ring every harbout master between Brest and le Havre and you will find them eventually" obviously now it is much easier to keep in touch, but that mind set allows you to step away from the pay-cheque.

Finally, don't buy stuff, fix it. Most of modern life is full of "stuff" you don't need, as a multi-millionaire Finish friend of mine once said, "you can only wear two shirts a day" (one before the sauna and one after). So I don't buy stuff and when I do I take a bunch of time to select it to last as-long-as-possible.

Been on holiday for 4 years now.

dreamon - I assure you that Europe is full of people who dream of travelling to Australia, and moan about the distance and costs. Including yours truly. There's always two sides...

Hi PINTOX,

"I envy those on the East coast because distance is so much smaller." I live in Boston so the trip is shorter, but I still feel rotten when I get off the plane in the early morning dark on the other side of the pond - but it's well worth the journey in short order. :)

You mentioned that you have a small child - that changes things quite a bit. I didn't start traveling to Europe until my mid 50s, some twenty years ago (OMG!). At that point, my kids were on their way (sorta).

GREG makes a good point about his widowed friends <<with unfulfilled life plans as couples they were planning to do someday "after they retired.">> Unfortunately that is a common experience. On the other hand, some folks I know who SAY that are waiting "until we retire" to make a jaunt to Europe really are not that interested in going.

PINTOX, you are not alone in dreaming about returning to Europe...

I agree with Greg about going for a week if that's all you can manage. For years we only took week-long vacations. We've had week-long trips to London, Paris, Rome, Amsterdam (destinations that are a bit easier to reach from the west coast)--it's surprising what you can pack into a week.

Taking my granddaughter and her father, also maybe her mother, to Ireland in June. (my 8th trip)We will fly out on Friday, spend 7 busy days on the ground, and come back on Sunday. My son will have to take one week of vacation unless his Friday off falls during our trip and then he needs only 4 days. I have not posted our itinerary since I know certain Fodorites will hand me my head on a platter for cramming so much into 7 days but it will be Elizabeth's Irish Sampler, as each of the other grandchildren had. Once I am finished with the Grands' trips (one more to go after Elizabeth) then I can spend more time on my own, health and money holding out, of course.

Pintxos,

I feel your pain. Once our youngest is able to stay home on his own I'm hoping my wife and I will be able to start traveling to Europe, also from the West Coast. It does seem doable to travel cheaply while still enjoying the sights, and right now there is at least one discount carrier (Norwegian Air, famous for low prices and very spotty service) from the west coast to some places in Europe.
Time though is key, I think. Personally I would like to go for around a month or so at least, which I should be able to do with my work once the time is at hand. Do you have a flexible work situation that would allow you to take a nice chunk of time off in one block? (Not saying a month is necessary, but ideally something more than a week).

My husbands recent diagnosis of Kidney Cancer has forced me to find both the time and money for Travel to Europe. He is doing great now, but that was the wake up call that we need to make time today for what we find important. Tomorrow or next year may not come, I never thought that possible. We are young (late 40's) and thought we would always have time. We have started living more lean so we can save money and roll over some vacation days so we have paid vacation time.

We are also on the west coast. I read a travel blog or forum every day to remind me of our goals and keep me on track to save money. Our trip is planned for October 2015.

Wow, thank you for the outpouring of support. I am considering a quick jaunt, but I have to build up a surplus of billable hours so my curmudgeonly supervising partners are off my back and I can actually enjoy the trip.

So many great ideas. You are right, as the millennials say, "YOLO, You Only Live Once." Very annoying but true.

I think having a small child obviuolsy complicates things. If you have parents who want to take care of them, then that's solved. I have a colleague with a 1 yr old who is now on a 2 week trip to italy with her husband, the bsby was left with the grandparents (who are thrilled).

I have to bill a certain number of hours, also, that's no excuse. Unless they make you bill 3000 hours a year or something, but just having to bill "some" is normal in any company that has billable hours. You are supposed to work. I'm supposed to bill at least 1800, I think. It's not a problem, I tend to work more than 8 horus a day many days, anyway.

Some people get hung up on this idea that oh, if I'm going to Europe, I have to go for a month or else I'm not going to go. Those are problems of your own making. I don't even want to be on vacation for a month, I don't enjoy it. I get tired and don't want to be "on the go" that long. So I wouldn't do that even if I could. I prefer trips of 10 days to 2 weeks. Given the cost of airfare, I do like to get in at least 12 or more if going to Europe, as I just did (12 on the ground). I do 2 weeks about every other year.

Pinxtos,

Write a novel or a screenplay or even just draw cartoons. Set it in your dream destination.

Now, I dream of Europe because there are not AS MANY guns there. I am capitalizing to avoid angry vitriol about presence of guns in Europe. I am in shock over what happened today in Seattle, at a school. Yet another school shooting. Horrifying.

I hear you.

A dear friend just died. Her only wish was to go to Ireland - never did. Kept putting money into a house that was her husband's dream. Then she had a five year battle with cancer, got an all clear and two weeks later died of a stroke.

Another dear friend took one, one week trip a year. Venice was to be the big one this fall for him and his wife. This Spring, he became terribly ill and there will be no trip now, perhaps never.

Another friend is going on a crazy pilgrimage to all the places his wife wanted to go, but he can't make up for the loss.

After retirement, I had a stroke followed by kidney disease. There were two places I most wanted to go. I finally said to DH, " When I die and you stand by my grave, you will wish you had gone to Turkey and Provence with me, and be very, very sorry that saving money was more important than those trips." That did it. We booked and went, and both were incredible.

So, if you sincerely want to travel, look for ways and reasons to do it. Life won't wait for you.

Seattle, no vitriol from Europe, no idea what all the guns are for in the US.

Seems to us you trust your fellow citizens to have guns but the reason you need the guns is you don't trust your fellow citizens.

Now, for a great country, this intellectual dichotomy ought to be solvable.

Pintxos, I hope you find a way. If you can squeeze out a 10 day trip, you will really feel like you have been away and will have plenty of opportunity to enjoy yourself.

My husband and I took a few trips to Europe before we had children and then European travel went on hold for quite a while. We finally went again when the youngest was 9 and he had a great time and remembers much of the trip. We would have liked to have gone even earlier with the kids but had we some financial challenges along the way.

Good luck!

"Now, I dream of Europe because there are not AS MANY guns there."

I simply can't understand this.

There aren't, as far as the overwhelming majority of us are concerned, ANY guns in Britain. And that's because we don't want them. We know criminals can get them - but we also know that most gun deaths in America are from people being shot by people they know. So we'll happily run the trivial risk of being shot by a criminal to avoid the far greater risk of being shot by an angry neighbour, or a trigger-happy cop who's had a bad day.

Now we're possibly no brighter than Americans. And there's no obvious reason we should be more democratic (actually there is: it's that damnfool Constitution you're all brainwashed into fetishising - but even that is theoretically capable of being amended), so where's the problem?

It seems to me YOU'RE the problem. Scarcely a day goes by without an American bleating here about why it's the NRA, or Walmart, or Big Pharma, who's standing between a civilised America and some horror you're currently lumbered with.

Yet almost none of you vote. Most of you spend your lives whining about politicians. Your answer? fly to Europe.

How about stopping whining, stopping dreaming and doing something about the things you're so worried about? Your country does purport to be a democracy.

What a pity almost none of you seem remotely interested in doing anything about it. Moaning about how tough it is to go to Europe gets no-one anywhere. Standing for your local council is the first step to Americans taking responsibility for the state of their country.

Flanneruk, I wouldn't exactly say "almost none of you vote." In presidential elections, about 50-55% of eligible adults vote, in mid terms about 35-40% vote. Not high, but not that extremely low either.

I would guess that Pintxos votes in every election and may well have got involved in politics in other ways. It's certainly not his fault that so many Americans are hoodwinked into thinking that conservative politics is in their best interests. I lived in the US most of my life, and I voted in every election since I reached the legal age. I volunteered in election campaigns, even when I had small children and little time. However, I lived in an "blue" area, where my "side" won almost every election, and it still had very little effect on issues like gun control and the death penalty, about which I felt strongly. The only thing I could have done to change anything would have been to move to a "swing" state, along with thousands of other people who thought like me.

By the way, two-thirds of the states have to ratify any constitutional amendment, in a country where 50% of the population lives in the most populous 11 states. That amendment isn't going to get changed in the foreseeable future, no matter how many people run for their local council.

bvlenci, I do vote in every election. It is very perceptive of you to guess so.

I am not even going to touch the vile pile of crap in flanneruk's post.

On a separate note, my husband has Irish citizenship and we are seriously considering relocating there. I may start a new post, but for the time-being it is just a thought.

Spend a few months in Ireland before making the decision.

FLANNER,

" It seems to me YOU'RE [Americans]the problem. Scarcely a day goes by without an American bleating here about why it's the NRA, or Walmart, or Big Pharma, who's standing between a civilised America and some horror you're currently lumbered with."

Your acrimony against America has reached new heights today, not that you don't take every opportunity to rank on us. Just wondering - have you ever been to the US? Not that it would change your mind.

In so many of your posts, you show resentment for Americans traveling to Europe, especially to the UK. I have been fortunate to have traveled there about ten time, and you rancor will not prevent me from returnin.

I live in the Northeast and no one in my circle owns a gun or supports the gun lobby.

Flanner, it's unfortunate because you have contributed so much to this forum. You're frequently indulged as being a "curmudgeon." But basically you have a mean streak and it's showing today.

Sorry for the typos

"I have been fortunate to have traveled there about ten times, and your rancor will not prevent me from returning."

Guess I am losing my cool. :)

I am for gun control except when I read what people like Flanny write. I am also against capital punishment, but if we start with street mimes, I might consider it otherwise.

We were fortunate, when we were in our 40's we realized that we better start going to places that require stamina and agility. They can always throw us in the back of the bus and see Brussels. (We saw Brussels this year, standing erect.)

We scaled the temples in Tikal, twice,and we retired early and my wife walked the 500 mile Camino. We also went to the cloud forest in Costa Rica, and went as high as they would allow on Mt. Etna.

Do not think in terms of Europe but what you can do now. And as far as time is concerned, for the most part I had positions of responsibility but I always sort balance and was at ease with the fact, that I was replaceable. The idea I was so relaxed about this but did my job well scared the crap out of my insecure bosses and the gained the confidence of those who were adults.

I often think, the way you travel, reflects how you approach the rest of your life. There are some who want to see as many places as they can in an hour because achievement is more important than what you are seeing. There are those who report every detail of every moment as if they are going to tested or must account for their actions. And then there seems to the hardest group to be part, enjoy the hell of a vacation and not a give a flying what is happening at work or what other people think.

"There aren't, as far as the overwhelming majority of us are concerned, ANY guns in Britain"

That's applicable for Flanner's little world.

Over a million people regularly use a gun in Britain. I have owned guns and many of the population in our area have done so.

The difference being that most of those users are involved in sport or game shooting. We don't have guns as a form of defence or a form of offense against other. We see them as a form of sport. There's the cultural difference but problems arise when those with mental health issues have access to those guns. As has happened very infrequently in the UK.

Flanner, please don't generalize. You don't know me or know that I do vote (have never missed an election.) I have had gunshot victims' blood trailing down me as I've tried to resuscitate them and I support anti-gun groups and legislation.

Yes, some of us are envious you don't have these concerns. There is no need to rub it in.

25,000 Americans die each year of gunshot wounds, how many Brits die of Marmite each year?

I watch those British mysteries and Oxford has to be the murder capitol of the world. I am surprised there is anyone left in that town.

Crab Apple Cove was so denuded of people that she had to move to NY to carry on the killing spree.

Have you noticed how many people die in those big white buildings in large towns, they should be closed down.

etc

I had a dear American friend who had dreamed of visiting England. She had read widely and saved up until she was in her 70s. I was terrified that she would be disillusioned, but I think she got the England of her dreams. She probably just ignored the grotty bits.
Everyone seemed to make a great fuss of her, from motherly chambermaids to the "dear holy dusters" of Salisbury Cathedral.
I've always wanted to visit Petra and Samarkand. At 75 those will have to stay as dreams

Samarkand? I am originally from that neighborhood but I have not been to Samarkand. I have been to Europe. Just can't go now. I will have to look up Petra, MissPrism.