Hubby has changed his mind---again!!!
 

First, he wanted Boston and NYC for our next vacation, then he added Philly. Now...he's leaving the US entirely. He says we should go to London and Paris!

So we're looking at next April and/or May. We have no kids, so we're not locked into their schedule. We can leave on any day of the week. I'm wondering if we're better off leaving in the afternoon and getting to London by noon. No ideas of where to stay. I was in London with my parents way back in 1986, so my memory isn't of much help. Never been to Paris.

We don't drink alcohol (medical reasons) and don't party. We like to walk around, see museums, sites, etc., including things a bit off the beaten path. But we want the regular touristy things, too.

We're thinking of seeing a travel agent for some help and advice--though all of you here are of immense help. Being new at this, do we pay a travel agent?

So now I'm looking at new threads for info and bookmarking many sites, based on posts from all of you. God! I pimp out this website so much whenever someone mentions they're going somewhere.

Was there a question?

YOu pay a travel agent for high end, special itineraries. Your trip is routine, you don't need a travel agent just to visit a couple of major cities, just book a couple hotels and the air ticket, that's all.

Now if you aren't comfortable doing that, to be honest, I don't know if you pay travel agents any more for those routine things, but I suspect so as they don't get commissions like they used to for air tickets, in any case. They can't work for free, what's in it for them.

Where are you flying from that would involve leaving in the afternoon and not getting to London until noon the next day? If it takes that long, and the alternative is not getting there until evening, yes, I'd get there by noon.

Christina is right. Unless you have absolutely no time to plan or you like throwing money away, don't use a travel agent.

Hi p,

Once you have decided that you will absolutely be going to London and Paris, tell us your budget, the dates and what airport you will fly out of and we shall help you plan your itinerary.

((I))

understand that a travel agent is a commissioned sales rep that is compensated by suggesting packages, hotels, excursions, etc that IMO are a ripoff. You have all the tools and plenty of time to do some research yourselves. Plus you have the added bonus of YEARS of traveler experience. Many "travel agents" i've known have never even left the US or own a passport. regardless of what you decide i do have a few pointers for you.

-Spend some time in Barnes & Noble and check out the guidebooks for London and Paris. You don't have to decide EVERYTHING you want to see but just to get an overview. These books give you loads of info on essentials, safety, what to eat/drink, etc.
- Download Google Earth on your computer. Plot your points of interest on the map and study their relative distance from each other. This will help you group them together instead of criss crossing all over the place and wasting time.
-Look at some trip reports that have been posted by travelers here. I for example have one from March 2012 when we visited both London and Paris. Just click on my name to view.

Unless you are planning to take one of the very few "day" flights to London from the east coast of the US the earliest you are going to arrive is the early morning. Arrival in the afternoon? from where?

And as was asked above, so what's your question?

Actually, travel agents will not necessarily increase the price of your trip. They work for a commission from the airlines and the hôtels, so unless they propose a product that suits your budget, they earn nothing at all and they know that.

You just need to make sure they know exactly what you want, and the most important thing to which you should pay attention are the suggested hôtels. The more inconvenient (or more expensive) they are, the higher the commission for the travel agent.

But you know what? Many travel agents are very decent and nice people and not bloodsuckers at all. If you find the right agent, they will take all of the work out of planning your trip. Do not hesitate to consult several travel agents.

Airlines no longer pay commissions. Long gone. There may be commissions on cruise trips, etc.
And in some cases, agents are recommending things they have never done--just reading books, etc.
here is one answer similar to others. You pay a fee for their services. You really can do it yourself with some guide books, and asking questions--or looking at past answers--here. There are countless posts about London and Paris, and I think these two cities are maybe the easiest to plan well for.

"Contrary to what some other answers say, airlines stopped paying commissions to travel agents years ago. That's why agencies began charging service fees.

No one can recommend an agency to you because we don't know where you live. You aren't going to deal with an agency in Miami if you live in Fargo. And, it's not difficult to pick one. Find a local agency that belongs to ASTA (American Society of Travel Agents). Ask to speak to someone who knows Italy. Ask them about their experience traveling to Italy. If you're not satisfied that someone knows the place well enough, go to the next agency and interview them.

As long as the fee is reasonable, pay it. A good agent can be the difference between a great trip and a disaster. An agent will shop for airfares, recommend hotels, assist you with your passport, and answer your questions.

If you do it online, you are your own travel agent. That's fine if you are a knowledgeable traveler or are willing to put the time and work into researching your trip. It's not good if you're a rookie or unwilling to dig into the details. I formerly worked for a major travel website. Many people did fine booking themselves, but some made dumb mistakes that a travel agent would never make. I had calls from people who showed up at the airport for an international trip with no passport and were mystified that the airline turned them away.

If you need the assistance, I strongly suggest that you pay for it. Why risk screwing up your vacation just to get out of paying a minor service fee?

Source(s):

Experience working in the travel industry

Except in a few (very expensive) cases airlines don't give commissions to US travel agents any more. Increasingly you're seeing travel <i>consultants</i> who charge by the hour.

You have plenty of time to plot and scheme your trip. Research here, on TripAdvisor, or on other sites. Do you want just to spend time in two very big (fun, but big) cities or do you want to get out into the countryside? Villages? Natural features? How long do you have? Any particular interests? (Shopping and food in Paris, theater in London...?)

Come back with ideas and questions, no need to rush.

>>Many travel agents are very decent and nice people and not bloodsuckers at all. <<

true -- but I honestly can't see where a TA would add any value on a simple trip like this one. I do occasionally use a TA, but not for anything as straightforward as this.

I agree, but some people really are not comfortable with computers or data (I have a relative like that). I have no idea what a travel agent would charge for something like this (and you might want a Eurostar train ticket, also), I'd be curious. But then the problem is they are picking the hotel for you, and if they give you options and you go online to check them out -- you are doing the same work, anyway.

Another option is a package, actually, those can be good for simple trips, but you lose some control over your timing in terms of the days you want. For example, www.go-today.com is a budget packager and they have a 3 night London, 3 night Paris pkg for 1300 per person from Boston. So that's $2600 for 2 for 6 nights, which isn't bad as it includes airfare from US and between London and Paris. But a lot of people might want to stay more than 3 nights each place. YOu could cobble a couple of those together.

Not sure wher you are coming from. flights US to UK typically leave at night and arrive early am - except fora few that arrive early am and arrive in the evening. Not sure about arriving in afternoon unless from west coast - if they have non-stop flights to London.

In any case, you should do an open jaws flight into London and out of Paris.

Agree to do without a travel agent - since they typically do only upscale individual travel or book tours (which IMHO you do not want unless you are determine to sit on a bus all day and change hotels every night).

I think working with a travel agent won't necessarily increase the price of your trip, but there have been many changes in that business over the past several years and it's good to understand how they are compensated now that most airlines have significantly decreased and even eliminated paying commissions. Many smaller agencies have gone out of business and most have added fees. (Let me add here that I'm describing the business as it exists here in the US. Not sure if the situation in Europe or elsewhere is similar.)

And yes, many agents are decent and ethical and will certainly provide you with a good service. I have known some well. On the other hand, there are strong financial incentives to sell those products that provide them the most profit, so caveat emptor.

Here's a good summary of how travel agents make money:

http://hostagencyreviews.com/how-do-...ts-make-money/

Regardless of the merits or otherwise of travel agents, there is no need for one for a simple trip to London and Paris.

Where are you coming from that you'd leave in the afternoon and arrive in London around noon?

How long do you have for this trip?

What's your budget?

What do you want to see and do in London and Paris? You've given us some details, but so far they are mostly irrelevant (not drinking alcohol doesn't affect trip planning one way or the other, really). We need to know what prompted this decision and what your intentions are when you get there.

Wow! You guys have helped already, even without a real question by me.

I'm understanding that, since we have time, we can probably do this with some online help and no agent.


We live in Fresno. Although there's an "international airport," the only nonstop flights out of country is basically Mexico. Travel to London means at least one stop and about 13 hours. A long time, I know.

Q: What are the pros/cons from experienced travelers over scheduling the departure time regarding arrival in London? And is there a better arriving airport for London, and departing airport for Paris? And transport from London to Paris?


Our actual departure date is pretty flexible, so we can be off-season, but we'd like to avoid lousy weather. I've read April-May is both off-season for cities and usually decent weather, possibly some rain, which is okay as long as long as it's not days of storm. I like the idea of our first (hopefully "first") trip to Paris be in the spring.

Q: Any suggestions for particular weeks to avoid for cultural, religious, or any other reasons?


We understand hotels can cost more, but we'd like to not go broke. All we want is clean, quiet enough (we had no problem with NYC noise, so silence is not required), and near enough the sites and transportation. I guess that means in the cities. I'd love less than $200/night, but not sure if we'll find it.

Q: Any suggestions for places to stay?


As I posted, we don't drink alcohol or go clubbing--we're pretty lowkey. Walking around, seeing tourist sites, museums, WTD, likely mostly in the cities for this trip, but I'm interestd in Harry Potter and Hubby says he can't imagine going all the way to France and not hitting Disneyland Paris. I've heard a lot of negative about that. We skipped the theater in NyC when we were there because we've seen big shows in LA, albeit years ago. When I was in London in 1986 with my parents, I saw Phantom of the Opera just three months after it opened. I'd like to see a show in London, since the theaters are--or were--much more intimate than in LA.

We're not foodies and honestly? I don't have an educated palate where I'd be able to really appreciate some finer points of flavors. S I don't think we need "fancy" places to eat. And we're taking carry-ons, so suitable clothing for such places likely won't be packed.

Q: I'm getting a lot of info from other threads, so I'm not sure if I have a question on this. If there are specifics go/avoid for places, suggest away!


Is this better?

Propita.... I suggest taking a peak at www.europeandestinations.com. Everything from the flights to hotel preferences can be customized.

used them and a couple of buddies did too

If you're interested mainly in staying in the cities, then it's really easy. Fly into London and out of Paris, even if the flight home stops in London for a plane change. (The reason is that the UK charges very high departure taxes, so you want to land in London but not fly from there overseas.)

You're wanting an "open-jaw" airline ticket, FAT-LHR//CDG-FAT. Use the "multi-flight" option on any online booking service such as Expedia, or through the airline of your choice.

Take the train (Eurostar) from London to Paris.

Think about day trips into the countryside from both cities - maybe Cambridge or Oxford (or Brighton) from London, maybe Versailles or Fontainbleau... many options, all easily done using fast trains.

Easy peasy.

Use the multi city option on a search engine like kayak.com for flights. Fresno to London then Paris to Fresno to get an idea of prices, routes and times. Expect to fly into Heathrow and out of Charles de Gaulle. Price may determine the time you travel. You'll be knackered whatever time it is.

Take the train: eurostar.com to travel between London and Paris, Book tickets online asap for the cheapest tickets.

Disneyland in Paris is great but why would you want to see something you can also see in the States?

May would be a good month, weather picking up (possibly) though possibly avoid the long Easter weekend if you travel in April.

identical post to young gardyloo!!

Late April and May are wonderful times to travel to London and Paris. As someone said, avoid Holy Week. And avoid EuroDisney! If you are in Fresno, you can easily visit Disneyland which is so much better!

1. Get yourselves to San Francisco and fly out of there to London. You don't get to choose which airport, and you don't get to pick an arrival time. The airlines do that for you. Buy an open-jaw ticket - SF>London, Paris>SF.

2. You take the Eurostar from London to Paris. Buy tickets about 2-3 months ahead of time to get the best prices: www.eurostar.com

3. April-May is a great time to go, BUT be aware there are three holidays in France in May, which could affect your plans. No one can tell you what the weather will be like, but you can go online and get historical averages.

4. It's been awhile since I've been to London, so I won't comment about hotels there (though I have always found London generally to be expensive), but Paris is well known for having great, inexpensive accommodations (way less than NYC or even here in Washington, DC). You can certainly find a nice hotel for $200 or under. You also might consider renting an apartment in each city, which will be cheaper than a hotel (though first-timers often benefit from having hotel staff to help them out with questions/directions, etc. - in an apartment, you're totally on your own).

5. Get a good guidebook for each city, and a good map for each, and start reading and familiarizing yourself with them. Get a sense of the various neighborhoods and narrow down the areas you think you'd like to stay in.

6. You don't have to be a foodie to enjoy eating in London or Paris. They're big cosmopolitan cities with every kind of food in every conceivable price range. You don't have to spend much money to eat very, very well.

7. Please don't sully a trip to Paris with a visit to Disneyland (where is the head-banging-on-desk emoticon?). Please....it's just so wrong (especially for a couple with no kids).

If you drive to SFO then you can take a non-stop on United to London. United also has a non-stop that you could take home from Paris. Flying into one city and home from another usually does not increase ticket costs.
You can drive to SFO and spend the night in a airport hotel. There are several that let you "park and fly" if you spend the night. You can take their shuttle to the airport and leave your car at the hotel for free (or minimal cost). Some allow up to 2 weeks parking. Just google San Francisco airport hotels park and fly.

I wouldn't worry about time of day, look by pice. After you see the schedules and costs you can decide.

My SIL always has to use a travel agent. She ends up in large hotels that are not always the best location. If you plan this yourself you can get a lot of excellent advice here about good places to stay in your budget from people who have actually been there.

I would get a hard copy guide to Paris and London. I prefer Fommers, They do an excellent job describing the main sights. Streetwise brand maps are very good.

The week I would avoid is Easter week, lots of spring break activity .

You will have a fun time planning and, doing it yourself helps you learn about the cities.

Another site to search for flights would be Hipmunk http://www.hipmunk.com/ Their search engine lets you select for "Agony", i.e., a combination of cosst and length of the flight. I just looked for open jaw on random dates for next May, and the cheapest is Icelandair. We have flown them from Seattle, and they have a 45 minute plane change in Iceland, so the entire flight is only 11 hours and 15 minutes. It is pretty much a cattle car, but gets you there. Cost is listed @ $1,004. The next on their list is British Air which has a non-stop that only takes 9 hours 5 minutes, and costs $1,340.

Have fun planning!

>><i>1. Get yourselves to San Francisco and fly out of there to London. You don't get to choose which airport, and you don't get to pick an arrival time. The airlines do that for you. Buy an open-jaw ticket - SF>London, Paris>SF.</i><<

Not necessarily. I live near Sacramento and conventional wisdom says head to SFO. But I (very) often find fares are cheaper from LAX or Las Vegas . . . or even SMF believe it or not. Of course there are no non stops from SMF - but my last flight to the UK was $250 less out of SMF routing through LAX. Sure I had the extra hop SMF>LAX . . . but that was easier than driving to SFO and dealing w/ parking.

consider Allegient from FAT to LAS, driving to SMF all various combos. SFO may indeed work out best but try other options.

If you decide you want/need the help of a travel agent, several friends of mine have in the past year used AAA and been very pleased with their trips.

I didn't read every post, so please forgive me if I'm repeating advice that someone else gave, but you should check the statutory holiday schedules for the UK and France in April and May. I lived in France for a couple of years and I recall that there were a fair number of holidays in April-May. I think there are three in France in May 2014, please Easter in April. And the UK has at least one bank holiday Monday in that period as well as Easter. (And May 1 (Labour Day) used to be an actual, bottle-throwing riot in London, although I think that practice has died down a lot.)

It's not that you need to avoid stat holidays, but they may affect your travel plans. Locals (and people from neighbouring countries with the same holiday schedules) may be taking long weekends, and that can increase crowds and prices at hotels and on planes and trains etc. If you think you'll be travelling on a holiday weekend, you might want to book fairly far in advance. And the French transportation workers have exhibited a tendency to go on strike on major holidays ...

For major holidays, some venues that are must-sees on your list could be closed (or thronged), so you might want to time your visit, sightseeing schedule and shopping schedule to make sure that the places you want to see are open. (In April-May 2014, the major holiday would be Easter Weekend.)

A quick check on ITA for next spring reveals fares from FAT to LHR/CDG are virtually identical (give or take $10 - $20) to fares from LAX, with no need to drive or park or take a separate airline. Fares from SFO (on the days I looked) are around $30 less than those via LAX (or DFW, which has direct mainline service from FAT on AA) but again, gas and bridge tolls, never mind parking, will eat the difference.

Good info, janis. I didn't know that.

Hi propita,
I just checked kayak.com

Flying FAT to LHR is $1196, 13hr 15 min, with a two hour layover at LAX.

Flying SFO to LHR is $1202, 10hr 15min, plus you have to get yourself to SFO, 3 hrs from Fresno, so 3hr 15min plus the cost/time/gas to get to SFO plus parking costs.

We live two hours north of LA and have to make the drive there for every flight we take. If I had a local airport that cost the same as LAX I would jump on it.

IMO, just fly from Fresno and have a relaxing start to your trip.

I've got nothing to add that hasn't already been covered. Just wanted to say that stcirq's point 7 made my day.

Hi Prop,

>We understand hotels ....

$200/nite is about $150 euro.

In Paris, we always stay at the Hotel Bonaparte, 61 Rue Bonaparte in the 6th. From 139E dbl + bkfst. It is just around the corner from Place St. Sulpice, near 3 metro stops and 4 bus routes. Has AC and an elevator.

The staff speaks English well, and is very helpful. The front desk is staffed 24/7

They can arrange a shuttle pickup to CDG for you.

Tel 33 1 43 26 97 37
FAX 33 1 46 33 57 67
[email protected]
www.hotelbonaparte.fr

For more info, enter "Hotel Bonaparte" in the "search the forum" box.

See also http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...t-in-paris.cfm

Why are you avoiding taking a third suitcase so that you can bring the clothes suitable for lunch or dinner that has tablecloths?

We always pack one 28" and 2 carryons.

The extra suitcase is usually free on overseas flights.

Enjoy your visit.

((I))

okay, I'll weigh in a bit -- one good place to check out London hotels is www.londontown.com I've used it, they have some good deals and tons of hotels.

I think maybe you should avoid May 1st, at least, it's just a major holiday so lots will be closed.

If the person only wants to do carryon, more power to them, lots of people on Fodors do and recommend it. I don't, I just can't go there, but others do. And to be honest, you don't need much to be able to eat in a restaurant with tablecloths. I did that with one skirt on my last trip, as the tops I wore with it could be used for other things, and actually since it was summer, one dressier top took up almost no room anyway (a silk sleeveless scoopblouse). But just doing carryon doesn't mean you can't eat in a restaurant wiht a tablecloth (which isn't always that expensive, that is pretty meaningless since some cheap restaurants and brasseries can have tablecloths). But no harm would ever be done if someone didn't want to eat in a restaurant like that, actually.

As for London theater, after more is settled, you can ask on here and people can tell you the best way to get cheap tickets for that.

>>I think maybe you should avoid May 1st, at least, it's just a major holiday so lots will be closed.<<

For France yes perhaps, but certainly not correct for the UK. Our "may day" holiday will be on May 5th next year (it's always a Monday), and all tourist attractions etc will be open for business.

I was also going to suggest that you look into flying from Las Vegas or Los Angeles. We got a great deal from LAX-LHR on Air New Zealand in 2007. It was an overnight flight with pretty good food, wine (I know you said you don't drink, but we appreciated it), and a wide variety of entertainment on the individual seatback screens.

Lee Ann

The drive from Fresno is not close to either Las Vegas or Los Angeles. Minimum four hours for either one. Not the way I would want to start my trip. And then you have the driving time, extra gas, parking fees etc.

>>The drive from Fresno is not close to either Las Vegas or Los Angeles. Minimum four hours for either one. <<

I don't think anyone suggested <i>driving</i> to LAS or LAX. . There are flights from FAT to both airports.

Lots of great info.

I did great research, with help from here, for our trip to DC and NYC last year. I do have time for research, so I'll probably do this myself. But I'll get more concrete questions as time goes on.

When I priced tickets from Fresno versus from LAX or SFO, as people posted, they were pretty even when accounting for travel, gas, etc., and FAT is fairly small, so no huge problems with departures.

The hotel info is VERY helpful. The "no" on Disney is helpful, too. And, yes, a day trip to Oxford or elsewhere in the UK sounds great. We hope for a future trip to London or what we miss, and to go to at least two of the beautiful gardens in the countryside, but that MAY have to wait unless I find good tips for that.

Oh gosh, there was something else but I can't remember and this phone keypad is little!

<I don't think anyone suggested driving to LAS or LAX. There are flights from FAT to both airports.>

Is there really a lot of money to be saved by flying into LAS or LAX and then starting your trip from there? I didn't check those prices.

I thought because the OP was looking for a nonstop, that people were suggesting that she drive to LAS or LAX or SFO and start from there. My mistake, sorry.

>>Is there really a lot of money to be saved by flying into LAS or LAX and then starting your trip from there?<<

Yes - see up thread. The fares out of FAT via LAX for example are a bit lower than flying out of SFO. Since that would be HUGELY more convenient, it would be worth it even if it cost $100 or $200 more, but actually being cheaper -- a no brainer.

BTW I found the same flying out of SMF - less expensive than SFO, and total time door to door is actually a bit less even w/ the connection at LAX since I didn't have to drive nearly 2 hours to SFO.