Thanks for the link, janisj (-:.

Penguins, I'm not athletically built (short and thin), but I will try to carry myself confidently and not look like the clueless tourist I will be.

I use a messenger style bag and connect my wallet and camera to my bag with those keychain type things that look like a length of thin telephone cord coil.

Each end has a split ring, and I run one split ring through the zipper pull, the other through my camera wrist strap. Then I tuck the camera plus the cord into one of the bag pockets. When I need to use the camera, I just pull it out and the cord stretches a small bit. This is also good because I'm a complete butterfingers with my camera.

Same goes for my wallet - I found a lightweight microfiber one with a keychain attached. I attach this one to an inner zippered pocket.

It probably sounds a bit like overkill, but my traveling companion in Rome a couple years back wished she had done the same after her camera was lifted out of her bag in a Metro station.

I still do the normal other precautions like a money pouch and wearing the bag so the flap is towards my body.

Does anyone else find that the passport can get a little worse for wear in the moneybelt? The hubby uses the moneybelt on our travels, and his is a mess from the sweaty moneybag.

I use a microfiber black messenger back, with a wide mesh strap, across the body and often with my hand on the bag itself. The shoulder strap adjusts to just the right length to permit me to do so under just about any circumstances. And I do keep it on on the train, restaurants, etc.

My passport rides inside a ZipLoc® bag inside the money belt under my waistband.

My "ticket home" is a printout of the confirmation email (which is sometimes also a boarding pass) the carrier sent me. And a few hundred USD for "mad money."

Chepar, where do you get those keychain things that look like a length of thin telephone cord coil? Thanks.

i've mentioned this technique several times in response to the same question. it is virtually foolproof and, yet, no one seems to pick up on it:

i carry an ultra thin wallet (essentially a business card case) which just holds two credit cards, a copy of my passport, a medical insurance card and approx. 200 euro in 50's. this is slid into the upper portion of an over the calf stocking.

i also carry a normal wallet with my driver's license, a mastercard i rarely use with no atm privilige and other miscellany in my rear pocket as a dodge. and i keep 50 some odd euro in my left front trouser pocket.

it would be a bold and rather stupid theif who would get on his kness and reach up my trouser leg assuming he had even suspected that location. if i'm pickpocketed of the wallet in my rear pocket: no real loss and if i'm strongarmed: i simply give over the cash and the useless wallet while retaining the more important and valuable stuff.

i've travelled europe for some thirty-five years (now at least twice a year). this arrangement has never let me down.

I can find them at my local drugstore. They're in a small section with other keychain type things.

They usually come with a clip attached at one end (so you can hang it on your belt loop or something), which I remove before attaching to my bag.

Las Vegas also gives them away attached to their frequent player slots cards. My sister was in Vegas last year and signed up at a bunch of hotels, so she gave me a couple of them. These are longer than the ones I can buy at the drugstore, and are better for my camera use because of the greater length.

subcon, my male friend did have someone "frisking" his trouser legs as we got on the Metro. We believe it was done as a distraction so his accomplice could go thru his pockets (which he did and got nothing. If he had a hidden wallet in his sock I'm sure his reaction would have been different). So I have seen it happen!

Maire-

to get a look at what I'm talking about, see this website:

http://www.janway.com/keychains.htm

it's called a coil/hook keychain.

Anyone "frisking" my trouser legs could be recognized readily in a police line-up. He'd be the one with EKIN printed on his nose.

Robespierre, LOL, but it was from the knees down and sort of "flapping" the bottom of the pants too...in the crowd going off the train and boy these guys are quick!

(GIGGLE)

In addition to all these fantastic tips, don't forget about planning for the worst case scenario - you do get picked. Do photocopy your credit cards, or otherwise take the info with you (front and back of the card), clean out your wallet before you go so you don't lose things like library and museum membership cards that you will not be likely to need in Europe and are a bit of a pain to replace, and if you're really an overanxious type, call your credit cards in advance and ask about whether they have a toll-free number in London and Paris in case you need to report a theft. Also, if you are traveling with a spouse, try to carry cards that are not on the same account, so if one person has a wallet stolen, the other person will have a card(s) that will work. Sometimes card companies will insist on shutting down the account and opening an entirely new one and the other card is then useless! Be aware that card companies will typically FedEx a card to you if you need a replacement while away. Hopefully this will not be an issue for you, and even if it is, the worst case scenario planning makes it not so bad if it does happen and allows you to enjoy the rest of the trip!

I would stay home, if you are so concern..... unless of course if you have teenagers in the house LOLOLOL!!

gomiki...

was the offender crawling on his hands and knees? there is no other way of "frisking" a trouser leg from the knee down unless it is a gay (NOT THAT THERE'S ANYTHING WRONG WITH THAT) overture to a seated mark.

subcon, as we got on the car this guy quickly knelt down in front of my friend (as the car was emptying) and quite aggressively "frisked" the pant legs below the knee and once at the hem "flapped" them. (I know it sounds strange). His partner was trying to pick my friend's pockets from behind while he was distracted. He got his Carte Orange but threw it on the floor before they jumped out. We didn't notice it but a woman on the car pointed it out to us.

I've been reading all this to make sure I'm prepared for my trip to Europe. I grew up in Baltimore, lived in NYC for 25 years and have spent a lot of time in all the major US cities (at times doing "tourist" things) and I've never used any of the techniques suggested here and have never been a victim of theft. Is it really that much worse than here?

absolutely!

>> Anyone "frisking" my trouser legs could be recognized readily in a police line-up. He'd be the one with EKIN printed on his nose.

Anyone "frisking" my trouser legs wouldn't have a nose left...

well, gomiki...

i just don't know what to say. that has got to be the most remarkable episode of non consensual sex/criminality i've ever heard. i wouldn't know how to characterise it. but , on your word, it surely blows my theory out of the water...

what more can i say???

We got picked in a New Orleans bar once. Just $20, so it wasn't a big deal. That was the only time though.

Maire - it's more about carrying yourself like someone who will beat the crap out of someone in the most painful and humiliating way possible just for looking at you wrong than just confident (though that's good too)...

njnancy, we (I grew up in Miami) are more familiar with muggings and such. Pickpockets are a different breed, much more subtle and slick, and tend to get what they want done without us even knowing it. It takes a different mindset to guard against them.

Pickpockets in Europe, from what I've read, are a very talented subset of humans, some of them in the family business for generations, taught as children.

subcon, I don't think sex had anything to do with it! It was mostly from the calf down (although it started at the knee). Remember it was just for a few moments and I'm sure just a distraction...but quite strange.

njnancy, yes it is worse but just keep aware of what is going on around you. Tourists are easy marks because of unfamiliar surroundings and wanting to look at everything at once. The first time I went to Paris we went up to Montmarte rather late at nite and I remember the scream of a woman on a side street who had just had her purse nabbed.

njnancy, I've had similar experiences as yours here at home, but I think it really is that much worse there than here - think the thieves are just much craftier, motivated, and sophisticated than our American thieves! I've probably just been lucky here as I will admit to being far too careless at home, but I've been much more cautious abroad about my belongings and have had my wallet lifted twice - once in London, once in Rome. Ironically, I think I had a much better time after it happened in Rome, as I no longer had the vague worry in the back of my mind that it might happen. On the bright side, I didn't have to pick up the dinner tab for the rest of the week!

Chepar - now if you could send me a pic of how you put your key chain contraption together, I would be all over that! Also, I see everyone mentioning carrying around a "copy" of their passport. Does anyone ask to see it when out sightseeing? If so, is a copy always sufficient?

I only email myself a copy of my passport, so it can be accessed and printed out at any time.

I can't recall ever needing to show my passport for anything other than trains/planes/hostels/hotels. Some hostels have required that I leave my passport with them for my whole stay, and that has never ended up being a problem. I do always have my student identity card on me for the worst case scenario that I get hit by a car or something worse.

To the people who want to know why take so many precautions in Europe when you take none at home: in Europe you may be jetlagged. You will certainly be in unfamilar surroundings where a foreign language is spoken. You spend a lot of your time trying to figure out where you are and how to get to where you want to go. So you stand out as a tourist and have less attention for guarding your belongings.

To the women who place a strap across their body: thieves use knives to cut the strap. Ditto for backpacks.

To the women who use one of those purses with a steel cord in the strap: you can be injured when somebody tries to steal your bag. The thief may not get your money, but your vacation may be spoiled by a dislocated or wrenched shoulder.

It's all around more secure to wear a money belt of some kind, and just keep daytrip necessities in a bag.

Chepar--thanks for the link. I see a couple that are just what I want!

Penguins -- I'll have to work on that; I doubt I look too intimidating, but if someone messes with my daughter or my belongings, they might be in for a surprise.....I hope!

I'm already practicing saying "Va via" in a menacing tone (as recommended by one of my guide books to say to approaching gypsy children.) [-X

missatlanta-

I'm rather ashamed to admit that I'm a bit of a techno-phobe. I still use a camera with regular print film and have no way of posting a photo.

However, in my prior post to this thread I gave a link to a website that has a picture of the type of keychain I was talking about.

I just remove the clip so only the two split rings with the coil between it remains. I attach one split ring through the zipper tab, the other to whatever it is I'm attaching to my bag. Typically my camera to an outer pocket of the bag, my wallet to an inner pocket. Then I just tuck everything into the pocket and zip it shut - you should be able to close it just about completely.

It may sound like overkill, but after exiting a packed metro car and finding a zipper to my bag open but my camera still attached, I was glad I had done it. Normally I keep a hand on my bag, but at that time I was carrying something in one hand and using my other hand to keep my balance.

It's not foolproof as I guess the cord could be cut, but perhaps it's an added level of hassle a pickpocket doesn't want to deal with.

Remember: a determined thief can get anything, but would rather pick on a less well-defended target.

If your gear obviously looks like you've expended some resources on security, the thief will move along.

Amen brother.

For heaven's sake, people, loosen up!

I don't deny that there are pickpockets in Europe, but in 40 years of traveling there, I have never lost a penny. And I have carried no money bags, no clip-on thises and thats. I have carried the handbag that I carry at home, which happens to be a city with very little street crime.

A wallet was stolen from my handbag once, on a bus in Mexico City. And it was my fault for not reacting quickly enough. Still, the thief must have been very disappointed; I had the equivalent of $10. in it.

In Europe, I carry up to 500 Euro without a worry.

Eloise, you reminded me of a lady I met while on a European river cruise (we were both passengers). She dressed very poorly in baggy sweats and jeans and had unkept straggly gray hair. No one would look twice at her. One day I needed some cash and my ATM didn't work, she met me in the dining room, opened her beat-up day pack, removed a ratty looking sweater and showed me her pack was full of cash. She gave me a pack of money and then slung the bag over her shoulder and we were off for a group day tour. She was a real character and I found out much later (we kept in touch) that she was a very very wealthy widow!

So the moral of the story is......who knows.....I'm just bored at work.

SeaUrchin,

Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm not a wealthy widow (wish I were...).

On the other hand, I also do not dress in ratty clothes.

I carry scans of EVERYTHING on a USB data drive, easy to carry and you can print all or just bits of info as it can be read by virtually any computer. It also carries all email address's and snail mail addresses as well as passport type photos. I even have pictures of home the kids and the dogs to show people , it is amazing the conversations you can strike up in an Internet cafe ! ;)

This thread, and others like it, convinced me to go out and get a money belt last night. I was going to kamakazi it and just do what I do in any city in the USA, but I decided that I would try it out. If I can't stand it, I will not use it.

Hey Ladies,

There actually IS a pouch for your bras. Unfortunately, I think I'm leaving too soon to have time to order and receive it.

http://store.yahoo.com/cydneyblu/secretbrapouch.html

But is sure looks like a good idea?

I like Marko's idea (it's just a step away from carrying a computer in your pocket) - but be sure that your scans are in a format that any computer can read (such as .gif or .jpg). If you carry .tiff or .pdf scans, you might run into trouble trying to view them.

Afterthought: and make sure your thumb drive doesn't require drivers that every Windows may not have. I have an old Lexar like that - I always have to dig up the CD to install it on a new machine.