How To Get Liquid Explosives Aboard An Airplane
 

I had my laptop inspected by TSA the other day. The agent had me power it on, and when the Windows theme played, he waved me through.

"Aren't you going to look in the spare battery compartment?" I asked.

"Nah - as long as it boots up, you're okay."

Gosh. I wonder if there are any terrorists smarter than TSA policy-makers.

And I've only just finished explaining to Mrs F how much space there'd be in a laptop for explosives if you just put in enough kit to show and play the Windows startup, but dispensed with fans, hard discs etc.

"Nah" she said. "The security people will just randomly choose a file and make you open it".

She's never over-estimated MY intelligence though.

Why would you suggest someone look anywhere for something they probably wouldn't recognize even if they found it?

I would hope that if they found anything in a spare battery compartment that didn't look like a spare battery, questions would be asked.

It's called "erring on the side of caution."

"I'm not sure they would know a spare battery from a lot of other things."

My point precisely. Since they wouldn't know, banning laptops altogether is the only rational course.

Why do you think TSA know computers? And even know there are compartments?

The other day I went to a computer shop to buy a printer cartridge. I had to point out the proper cartridge to the salesperson who MUST know those things!!

"Why do you think TSA know computers? And even know there are compartments?"

I know they don't. That's why the rule needs to be changed from "must boot up" to "no laptops allowed." Our safety depends on it.

I wonder why they don't have dogs at all airports. Would it take that much longer to have a dog at the end of the x-ray conveyor belt, sniffing every piece of carry-on? I'm sure a dog can smell the difference between a spare battery and a liquid explosive. I know I would feel safer if dogs were used as back-up, perhaps to catch anything that the human eye missed.

BennyB, a dog can't work 24/7. Like a person, it burns out. And there are very few dogs to smell out explosives.

Robespierre, I agree, the rules are... let's be polite here... imperfect. Can we do anything to change them?

I know dogs are hard to come by, but it's been 5 years since the 9/11 attacks, couldn't the TSA have been training new dogs during this time?

They (dogs) are not a perfect solution, but really, how much better is it to have national guard troops with loaded M-16s? What exactly are the national guard troops supposed to be doing to keeps explosives off the planes? Dogs are just another option, one that I would support. They have been very useful in other aspects, such a detecting drugs.

Well, I guess we could do away with all inspections. Then after all of us get blown up, there would be no more griping and moaning.

I still think that the limitations of the TSA staff force some of the more stringent rules.

I still chuckle over one of my inspections after I rang the alarm bell.
I always touch that thing off because of my new hip - titanium and plastic.

Once I walked up to the gate and said to the attendant, "I am going to ring your bell." I stepped through and the alarm sounded. I went to the detention center for further inspection.

Somebody called out in a voice that pierced ears for 15 feet, "Male ASSIST."

Finally some guy came wandering over who looked for all the world like he did not know a femur from a radius bone. "Whassa trouble?" he asks. I replied, "I have a metal hip." He looks at me, and then says, "Yeah? Where 'bouts?"

I pointed to my right hip. I figured that any additional conversation would be wasted.

This is an interesting article about a ringing cellphone on a BA flight:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/4791595.stm

Are dogs trained to alert to all of the dual-use components that can be combined to explode? I doubt it. I imagine they can recognize common explosives like nitrates. We're far from a solution.

Since people like to criticize the TSA employees, and they may be due...would you opt to pay $5,000 for a roundtrip coach airfare to Europe to provide funding for more qualified people. I would venture to say that virtually all of you would say no. So, you need to deal with the stupidity or get your own plane because the TSA is just there to make you think you're safe, they aren't really making you safer.

Buongiorno, if I don't talk about stupidity, I will explode. To obey all rules and not to react to things like scissors allowed on board, I have to let the steam out somehow. I do it on this website.

I see your way to deal with the situation is to criticize me, so be it! I will live.

Robespierre,

I use my laptop on virtually every flight but you are right. I would gladly give it up for security.

BTW, during Gulf War I we flew to Germany. There was heavy security at that time. The airline we used, one of the European carriers, required that all batteries be in checked lugage. I could bring my laptop and camcorder into the cabin but no batteries -- and the airline checked. Is this not simple and foolproof? Nobody is going to want to check their expensive and sensitive equipment.

Also back in those days, or earlier, BA at LHR had strict control over items going into the cabin. For duty free booze and such it was delivered to the gate by the duty free shop. You claimed your goods as you boarded.

Somebody on another Fodors thread reported that one of the arrested London would-be murderers was employed by security so this duty free delivery system is not a sure solution. I think that hiring secure people for the security department is another matter.

Faina - I'm not saying you can't criticize anyone...go right ahead. I'm merely pointing out that as a practical matter, very few if any of us would be willing to pay the price for real security. You could look at the TSA and realize how many potential presidential candidates there realy are out there.

Checking all batteries across the board would be a good first step - evidently the carrier was able to hire people who knew a burrow from a burro, so there may be hope for TSA to do the same.

Laptop addicts could even power their machines from the aircraft system.

No, no! Potential presidential candidates don't come from TSA! They come from hairdressers and taxicab drivers! :))

Here's one: I was going through security at Bradley Int'l Airport, Hartford, CT and TSA took my two Clinque lipsticks, one Tide-to-Go and one Blistex.

They did NOT take the four lithium AA batteries nor the CR-V3 batteries which were both in my handbag.

Go figure.

While we are limiting things, how about pens (can be used to stab), watches (batteries to power small enough charges to set off a bomb), eye glasses (think of what you could do with the glass), and straps on antyhing (purses, bags, etc. because they can be used to choke people).

R, what were your departure and arrival airports?

Why don't we just end air travel altogether and call it a day?

Robes -

Dogs can be trained to detect almost anything you want them to. There are dogs that can detect underground oil. If they are not trained to detect elements in an explosive, then why not start training them now? A dog wouldn't have to detect EVERY ingredient, just one essential one.

I do know that dog's are not 100% accurate, but it's a relatively cheap option and can provide a valuable layer to our security. If I ever wanted to smuggle an item, I would take my chances against a fellow human any day - the canines are just too hard to fool.

Dogs are trained to detect multiple drugs. Schnauzers have been trained to detect cancer cells. I'd trust a dog more than a TSA agent :-)

Another good thing is dogs could double-check whether any passenger has a forbidden substance somewhere on his (or her) body, like in the pockets, which would not have gone through x-ray. That way there's no need for any strip (or cavity =-O ) search of every passenger, which would be unpleasant for all involved, including the TSA agents.

I would also trust a dog above an agent.

There are dogs that let epolepsy know when they are going to have a seizure.
Amazing..
Truly man's best friend.

sorry I meant epoleptics (sp)

Now my wife wants me to buy a used laptop and gut it. Then she could smuggle her eye solution and nasal spray on board.

I bet there's going to be a glut of them at the Unclaimed Baggage store in Alabama soon. They have a website if you are interested in getting a baseline price point.

icithecat :)) :D

buongiorno has a point.

You all want to pay $6 for your flight and then think you should get upgraded to first class.

I am grateful for the British for catching these guys before the event took place. The people making these rules do it to try and protect us.

No system is failure proof but none of you have the money to buy your own plane either.

Dogs have some amazing abilities for sniffing things out and it is possible that they should have a place in the world of airport security. It is, however, important to realize that training them is very labour intensive and that dogs quickly loose interest and need to rest more than they work so every airport would need a lot of dogs if they were to be the primary detection tool.

Batteries are not that big an issue because there other ways of initiating explosives. The important thing is keeping the explosives off the plane.

In my opinion we must accept there is some element of risk involved with flying because it will never be possible to reduce all of the risk factors to zero.

1. Batteries are not a security issue for the TSA-other things are.

2. All bomb-sniffing dogs that are currently active at major category airports across the nation are trained pursuant to TSA regulations and policy (and before that, FAA) at Lackland AFB, in Texas. After completing a very extensive training period, and passing the various tests, the dogs are shipped out to the local police force, assigned a handler, and then, pursuant to TSA policy, begin their tasks at the major airport to which they are assigned. The criteria and policy by which they are trained, and their work schedules, are not publicly available information.

There is an entire division at TSA that does nothing but handle policy, laws, and regulations pursuant to the K-9 Inspection Team.

One more thing about the TSA dog program: It has a current budget of about 28 million a year.

You have no idea what the TSA does. It is much more than just screening.

Article on TSA training of bomb-sniffing dogs:

www.post-gazette.com/pg/05353/624860.stm

Just to muddy the waters further, a lot of batteries can be made to explode. That's why most types of lithium batteries have been prohibited on aircraft for many years (not because of terrorists, but because they might explode if shorted out). Lithium AA batteries are usually exempt because they have integrated short-circuit protection.

The power held in laptop batteries is considerable. If all of it were to be discharged at once ...

In fact, some laptops do explode or bust into flames if there are battery problems. I know this has happened to Mac and Dell laptops, and probably most others.

Isn't the exploding/fire issue the reason Dell recalled some couple of hundred thousand or so computers today?

Meanwhile I saw a report that air cargo small packages are not checked or even scanned these days even on international flights. Does anyone recall the PanAm explosion over Scotland from a small package sent air freight? Do we only worry about the most recent threats and ignore other equally logical ways terrorists may blow planes out of the sky?

If you mean PA103, that bomb was in a checked (and unaccompanied) suitcase. But your point is well-taken. Air cargo is still vulnerable.

Yes, Dell laptops have caught on fire due to faulty batteries. I just saw that on the news this morning.

I believe SFO is going to start checking the cargo for planes departing SFO soon. I have wondered for ages how "safe" we are flying in that the commercial cargo items have not been exrayed or checked in any manner. Assume it would take to long and be to expensive?

From the bomber's point if view, it's extremely difficult to predict when a bomb will be airborne. It might go out on the next flight or not until midnight - so a simple timer wouldn't work. It should be possible to use an air pressure switch to arm the timer, but the more complex a device gets, the greater the risk of its discovery.