How does one ask for "Dressing on the Side"?
 

I love the marvelous Salades Composee in France, but it is always a crap shoot if I can eat them. I do not like strong vinegary flavors, and often the salad comes with too much acid for me to enjoy. I have tried, "Vineigrette a part, s'il vous plait", but I sometimes get attitude from the waiter, and perhaps a tantrum from the Chef, as the salad will still come doused with oil and VINEGAR, with perhaps an extra container of dressing..

How can I ask politely for the salad to come au natural, with the dressing to come separately, or at least with a minimum of acetic acid?

Depends if you are in a restaurant or a hotel room.

Or at your tailor, Aduchamp. Made me smile.

:-)

Unless you can invoke a medical condition, you are treading in dangerous territory here.

^^ lol :P

In much the same way you get American restaurants to serve you toast at breakfast that isn't impregnated with a ton of butter, tea made in a pot with boiling water or bacon that's not nuked to a barbecue pellet and covered in that syrupy muck.

That is: give up.

Foreigners can't cook, and you accept how they do things, find out what they don't ruin or starve.

Well, Flan, my practice wife was a Brit from Berkhamsted, and I damned near did starve because I was really slow to find something she couldn't ruin in the kitchen. Cold dry toast was a prime example.

Anyway, I'm serious about how to get a salad in France not doused in vinegar. What are the magic phrases?

I was serious, too, nuke.

As a medical condition, you can try <i>"J'ai une intolérance au vinaigre. Est-ce qu'il est possible d'en mettre très peu sur la salade?"</i> This will give the waiter a chance to suggest bringing the <i>"sauce à part"</i> or they might even still have the little oil and vinegar sets that used to be on each and every restaurant table when I was a little boy and let you do all the work yourself.

Flanner is right. Abroad can be a beastly place, with all sorts of strange ideas about food.

We usually go self-catering on holiday, so spend many hours in European supermarkets. It is odd what one can, and cannot, find.

In both Spain and Italy, it is hard to find salad dressing - vinaigrette already mixed. Most bread in Tuscany is hard and dry. Italian supermarkets have a poor selection of cheese compared with France or Britain. Fresh milk can be difficult to find, especially fresh skimmed milk. Fresh cream is also unavailable in Italy.

Many continental supermarkets, especially in tourist areas, have a selection of British foods - marmite, baked beans, brown sauce, etc. What is missing are what one thinks of as staples in one's own country. The big French hypermarkets are perhaps the exception, especially for baked goods and dairy.

It's nearly as bad as trying to find a proper strawberry in California.

chartley - your line about strawberries in California is so true.

Just came back from a week there, jonesing for fruit that tasted of something, anything! The strawberries (whilst beautiful) were the size of apples and had next to no flavour. The apples were the size of melons and had all the flavour of the pillow in my room (don't ask. A man has to eat).

As others have said nuke (well I'm paraphrasing) "when in Rome..."

If you are in NY this week, the strawberries have been just extraordinary.

I wish I were...

Coming back to the drizzle and cold of Kent after a week in 80º+ temperatures, certainly makes you re-evaluate your life choices.

Flanny writes:
In much the same way you get American restaurants to serve you toast at breakfast that isn't impregnated with a ton of butter, tea made in a pot with boiling water or bacon that's not nuked to a barbecue pellet and covered in that syrupy muck.

Here is the translation in English:
Toast, butter on the side or lightly buttered
Tea, please make the water boiling hot
Bacon done lightly (no syrup, which most places do not do any way.

And "Please do not spit on my eggs for being such a prig."

The strawberries in the Farmer's Markets in the Northeast US are really good this year. Not so the supermarket, giant versions.

Oh no, not breakfast wars again - more devisive that bad teeth, world wars, socialised medicine and gun control :-)

And why I am here, could somebody explain "Canadian bacon" and "Irish bacon" - I saw both on menus in NY and wondered about differences.

And why I am here, could somebody explain "Canadian bacon" and "Irish bacon" - I saw both on menus in NY and wondered about differences.
______
It is all about if the server is an illegal immigrant or not.

Your experience with "acid" is quite the opposite from mine. I find the salads to be uniformly "perfectly" dressed, and usually the reason is that they use the "correct" (but more than I usually dare!!) amount of olive oil. DEElicious. I hope you can get it solved, however.

I do agree that in the absence of a medical condition, perhaps backed up with some sort of printed card, "having it your way" is not a concept that most French, bless their hearts, can understand. You are in my restaurant, you will eat what you are served. If you don't like it, you are welcome to eat elsewhere. And I don't necessarily disagree.

Canadian bacon and Irish bacon are both back bacons and are usually (always?) cured not smoked; US bacon is pork belly, cured and smoked. Trader Joe's has some cured but not smoked American style bacon and maybe smoked but not cured -- I wasn't paying too much attention.

kerouac - i think you underestimate your fellow countrymen/women. having travelled quite a lot in France with DS who has an aversion to vinaigrette, but enjoys his salads, we came up with the following:

le salade s'il vous plait, mais sans vinaigrette - il ne le peux pas manger. [sorry for the poor grammar, but it worked!]

most of the time, they looked a bit sideways at him, but followed our instructions. ditto with cheese sauces, which he would not have liked.

saying he wasn't able to eat it was better we found than saying that he didn't eat it.

I understand that the French understand that medical concerns may influence what one can eat or drink, while personal preference is seen as being rather self-centred.

Trying to find the correct wording after many years of French lessons, I came up with the sentence "Je ne support pas la vinaigrette", perhaps with a "malheureusement" at the beginning. Maybe Kerouac can say if this correct (using "correct" in the French sense)?

"Je ne supporte pas" can mean "I can't stand..."

Not really a good way to go. Kerouac had it right.

The Canadian Bacon story, from a producer's website. It is really quite interesting:

Around the turn of the last century, England imported side bacon from Canada, smoked it and termed it "Wiltshire Sides". True Canadian bacon is not smoked.

During the war years, yellow peas were ground up into meal. Canadian bacon was rolled in this meal. This ensured better curing, shelf life and avoided bacterial problems. Over the years, this was changed to cornmeal.

Peameal bacon - REAL Canadian Bacon - is made from boneless Pork Back and is sometimes referred to as Back Bacon in Canada.

Yes, annhig, you can get salad with absolutely no dressing quite easily. The staff will instantly understand that there is something terribly wrong with you and will empathize. But that isn't really what nukesafe wants, I don't think.

> " ... d'en mettre très peu sur la salade?" This will give the waiter a chance to suggest ...

If the waiter follows above, he could bring a salad with a bit of sauce in it still, couldn't he? If Op wants to avoid even this, I would not use Kerouac's phrase. I might say e.g. - there are more than one way to say - "Pourrais-je avoir ma salade sans sauce ou mettez la sauce, par expample, dans un petit pot à côté" ? I guess then it's up to you how you say it, whether your waiter is attentive enough or if it a kind of place where you can ask for small things like this ...

> le salade s'il vous plait, mais sans vinaigrette - il ne le peux pas manger. [sorry for the poor grammar, but it worked!]

Terrible sentence ;-) but you know it and it has worked. Only those who read should not follow it word by word. La (or Une)salade and Il ( your DS ) ne peux pas LA ( salade or la vinegrette) manger.

Brits talking about cuisine...a real joke IMO

well, i wasn't that far out! not bad for someone who last studied french 40 years ago!

and possibly a little more memorable for those who have less french than you, kappa.

<<The staff will instantly understand that there is something terribly wrong with you and will empathize. >>

lol, kerouac, i hope that they will understand that it is my son who has the terrible affliction, not me.

Brits talking about cuisine...a real joke IMO>>

almost as funny as americans talking about it, Dukey!

Ann, they will see you as being afflicted in having such a son.

"It's nearly as bad as trying to find a proper strawberry in California."

It is getting harder, but it isn't as hard as you may think. Most road-side stands have good strawberries and you can find good ones at farmer's markets too. Unfortunately though, lots of people want perishable fruit that travels well and lasts a long time, and is cheap - so many big commercial CA growers have opted to grow these tasteless things that look nice and last forever, but don't have an ounce of juice. So strawberries in the grocery store aren't very good. Driscol, a beloved local grower, used to grow the best stuff, but I don't buy their berries anymore. Small growers are the key. They don't have the volume to distribute their crop very far.

Ann
Next time you are in NYC, give us a ring and we will take you to inexpensive and moderately priced restaurants and you will see how far America has come.

Salad items with no dressing at all are a cause for suicide. If you eat such things, there is no reason to go on living.

Nukesafe--This is a question I've always wanted to ask (and I've lived in fear of doing so).

My salads in the US can be drenched in olive oil; my salads in France seemed to be steeped in vinegar (to the point where my teeth hurt).

No problem here in the US getting dressing on the side or one's own oil and vinegar dispenser.

But I've never wanted to offend in France, and so I don't say a peep or I just avoid ordering a salad. Now I have several polite approaches, and I'm going to test those out. Thanks.

BTW--I waitressed during high school and college and grad school. Even in the diet darkness of the 70s, we had lots of people order dry toast. Many of our regulars had heart conditions, and helping them out was just not a problem. Our wait staffs, no matter where I worked, expected that type of request.

I never worked anywhere where the bacon was served with syrup on it. As a general rule here, pancakes or French toast usually come with syrup on the side, although sometimes ice cream scoops of whipped butter are already placed between slices/pancakes.

Again, it was NEVER a problem to request that the butter not be on pancakes/French toast.

Strawberries and tomatoes: Cold climates seem to produce the best product flavor. Northeastern US berries and tomatoes and Michigan cherries are to die for.

However, the BEST strawberry I ever ate was in Dunkeld, Scotland. We bought on the way for a hike over to the Beatrice Potter Center, and they were so good, we traipsed back. Can still taste it--like jam.

> Salad items with no dressing at all are a cause for suicide. If you eat such things, there is no reason to go on living.

ha-ha, he does not know everything about France .... ;-)

I have a family member with this issue. If she asks for sans vinagrette, she gets the oil and vinager treatment, so we have learned to ask for it sans sauce. The waiter is usually surprised at that point and asks if we really want it nature, and we reply yes.
When you're served, they'll lften offer a condiment tray with oil and vinager for you to douse yourself. But getting the actual vinagrette served on the side has only ever worked in horrible, overly touristed places where the vinagrette is watered downed Amora, with very little acid to begin with.

Just don't ask at a restaurant where Russell Crowe is a server:-)
http://www.subzin.com/search.php?tit...re=-1&type=All

Okay, this is getting tedious. Let nukesafe starve -- or not order salad.

Then again, in Scotland if you want dressing/stuffing with your bird, you must ask for bread sauce.

A cruel cut, Kerouac, as I really love the salads in France that I can eat. And I really do starve when I see one of those served to a neighboring table and order one --- only to have to sit and stare at it after the first bite or two. Sometimes I can eat around the edges when the dressing has been glopped into the middle, but that is not very satisfying.

The most hopeful, and helpful, response to my question comes from Phread. I will certainly try ordering "nature", and hope the French waiter's union will allow bringing a condiment tray without causing the Government to fall.

Then again, in Scotland if you want dressing/stuffing with your bird, you must ask for bread sauce.>>

??? underhill?? stuffing [what the americans call dressing] and bread sauce are completely different. The latter is a strange milky concoction where milk is heated with cloves and then has breadcrumbs stirred into it. The former is [hence the name] generally stuffed into the bird abd though usually involving breadcrumbs, will have herbs and onion, perhaps the bird's liver, maybe fruit, and often sausagemeat as well. no milk in sight.

nukesafe - the "nature" option may be the safest but don't be too surprised if the waiter serves you in the nude!

Perhaps that is the best way, annhig. Maybe I can ask for the salad "nature" and sneak in a little squirt bottle of my own dressing to put on when nobody is looking.

That would be a shame, though, as some of the dressings I have had in France have been just lovely -- and/or I might miss some magnificent concoction that is the chef's specialty that would be wonderful. After all one goes to restaurants in Paris to be adventurous, no?

Sigh ----------

About strawberries in California, you need to go to a Farmer's Market and then get wise about varieties. There's one called seascape that is great, but the red hearts and white diamonds that are the most common varieties can be a bit flavorless.

At our friends' home near Inverness we were served roast pheasant with bread sauce, and it was absolutely wonderful. It was more like bread stuffing than anything else. Our hostess's family were caterers in Vienna, and she was an amazing cook.

Annhig, many Americans also call it stuffing when it's cooked inside the bird. Otherwise it's dressing. Or either one.