how do i order plain pasta for picky eater
 

I'm taking my family to Italy in March. My son is a picky eater although he loves pasta. Typically when we eat out we order him plain pasta (no butter, no grated cheese, no sprinkling of parsely) with tomato sauce (no meat) on the side (to check it out before he eats it). How do we ask for this in Italian. <BR> <BR>Thanks <BR>

Plain pasta is "in bianco." I forget what to say to request something "on the side." I'll post again later.... unless someone else gets it first.

From everything I've read, they love to spoil children in Italy -- (not that you son is spoiled -- both my kids went through that stage, and one practically lived on milk, fruit juice and cheerios for about a year and a half). Point is, they are more used to catering to idosyncratic young tastes than here in the US. I think "marinara" is usually plain sauce.

I went through that too. Anyway you also need to say no butter and nothing green. I don't speak Italian but they understood when I say "No beurro, no verte, no carne" That was just mixed up bad French and Spanish but they got the point. <BR> <BR>Someone write this properly in Italian if you can.

Hi Marg, I too, have picky eaters. On our first trip to Italy I let them order what they liked and asked them to have a small taste of what mom and dad were having as well. Sometimes we couldn't get them to go back to their plain pasta. By the end of the trip they were experts at asking for pasta with vongole (clams) and their range of menu items had expanded greatly! They were 8 & 9 years old. I do know how to ask for dishes without meat since one of my daughters is a vegetarian, it's "Hanna piatti senza carne? Have fun, they will remember it forever!

Marinara's sea food; so don't ask for that. Santa Chiara, where are you? Paulo?

I'm not Paulo or Santa Chiara, but... Actually, marinara, despite its fishy-sounding name, is not seafood (or at least it shouldn't be). The name basically connotes "fisherman-style," and I think the idea was that you wouldn't take meat on a voyage.

I just realized that what I wrote doesn't exactly make sense. What I meant was that I think the idea was that a vegetarian sauce was less likely to go bad on a ship. Anyway, authentic marinara should be tomato sauce with seasonings -- no meat, no fish.

Hi Marj- You might want to try www.babelfish.altavista.com <BR>When I typed in pasta, no butter, no cheese, sauce on the side here's what I got: "pasta, nessun burro, nessun formaggio, salsa dal laterale" <BR> <BR>Can someone tell me if this will get Marj's son what he wants? Paulo? Santa Chiara?

www.babelfish.altavista.com <BR>what a useful site! <BR> <BR>thanks for other info too.

I was a picky eater when I was a kid too so I understand :) Thank goodness I grew out of that. Now I eat everything! <BR> <BR>Enjoy your trip!!

For sauce on the side ask for "la salsa a parte," as suggested by a native speaker. (Now I still seem to recall another way of saying this, but maybe it was wrong, or maybe it depends on where in Italy.) Your plain tomato sauce would be "salsa di pomodoro."

We spent a month in Florence a few years back with our then 8 year old finicky son. In the end, he learned to love spaghetti drenched with extra virgin olive oil that he put on himself at the table (still likes it that way). Time after time, as I tried to explain in Italian what we were after - the waiter would laugh and say "Ah, si...spaghetti Inglese"

Pasta needs to be dressed with SOMETHING (at the very least a little olive oil) immediately after being drained or else it will get sticky and pretty disgusting to eat. Marinara is a meatless sauce, usually tomato, which could be made at sea with ingredients that aren't too perishable. Young children (toddlers) in Italy often eat pastina (a tiny pasta), in a little broth or with a little ricotta or oil.

Both marinara and Salsa di pomidoro are correct; however, they are different types of sauce. If he wants sauce like in the States, it is marinara (no meat, no seafood, etc.) It is cooked for a longer time than salsa di pomidoro, which is typically made with garlic and herbs (usually basil and/or oregano), and cooked for only about 1/2 hour. It is chunkier and jucier at the same time. Great sauce, just different than typical American tomato sauce. (Sorry if you aren't American, you just sounded like it to me.) And the word for "without" is "senza". So your request would be "senza burro, senza verde (not verte), senza carne." "Nessuno means, I think, "no one." (Though it has been a couple of years since I've used my Italian and I may be remembering incorrectly. Please, somebody, if I'm wrong, correct me so I can learn again!) Also, the suggestion of letting your son try other things is a great one. Kids surprise you! Have fun in Italy--it's a wonderful country.

See how helpful everyone is! wow. Oh well, I guess babelfish is wrong in some respects but I've never studied Italian so that's all I had to go on. Good to know you guys are out there when it's my turn to go to Italy.

Is he so picky that he doesn't like plain pizza with just tomato sauce? That is often quite easy to do, and many restaurants will be happy to do it for him. Just "pizza margarita".

Pizza Margherita has tomato, mozzarella and basil. It is red, white and green, the colors of the italian flag, and the story is that it was made as a patriotic-looking dish for Queen Margherita.

Marj- <BR> <BR>Actually I think he'll do quite well in Italy as the pasta is generally prepared simpler there and not smothered in an excess of sauce. And your basic tomato sauce (pomodoro) does not come with meat in it. <BR> <BR>Plus they use a much wider variety of types & shapes of pasta than you generally will see in American Italian restaurants.

Tell him that if he doesn't eat what's been ordered then he wont eat at all. Let's see how long he can go watching the rest of the family tuck in whilst he sits and pouts. <BR> <BR>Let them eat pasta.

Tony, weren't you ever a kid?? I remember being forced to sit at the table until I finished my spinach. I was only 3 and the stuff totally gagged me. I sat there for hours... Now I'm a vegetarian and spinach is my favorite, no thanks to my parents!!

It will teach him that one cannot always have ones own way. It's a bad habit to pick and choose to such an extent at so young an age. <BR> <BR>At New Park School, St Andrews, Fife, back in the early 1980's I was forced to eat what was put down to me. It wasn't a case of 'if you dont eat it you get nothing', I was FORCED to eat it. Believe it or not it was haggis and that wretched mashed potato out of a packet - my mum never served me that sort of stuff. Anyhow, I told Miss Lyon that if I was to eat it I would be sick. 'Eat the food, Hughes' was the reply. I ate the food. I was sick at the table 30 seconds after eating it, in front of the rest of the school. <BR> <BR>Now what did that teach me? Well it taught me that on some occasions I would rather go hungry, also that I cannot have my own way and thirdly that Miss Lyon was the witch I thought she was (she once bawled me out during the school dance with the local girls school 'cos she saw me whispering something to my friend and deduced that I was making derogetory remarks about my dancing partner - I wasn't as it happened but she did resemble a shipping hazard). <BR> <BR>Yes I was once a child and I've never eaten haggis or instant mashed potato since I left that place. Never will either.

Here's a thought. I don't entirely agree with Tony's "eat it or starve" approach, but I do think that depending on a child's age they do need to learn either to eat more widely or to manage their limited food preferences somewhat on their own. <BR> <BR>I don't know how old Marj's son is, but if he's older than, say, five or six, maybe he could be given a good, simple book about Italian food before the trip and asked to pick out the types of things he thinks might be good? Also, since children learn languages better at a young age, maybe he could learn some of the phrases that have been mentioned here--"senza carne, senza verde, senza burro," or whatever. They're pretty basic, and it might be fun for him to be able to express himself a little bit while at the table in Italy.

Oh dear, i was just asking for an italian translation, not child rearing advice. My very healthy, bright, athletic, yet thin 9 year old happens to eat better than most of us adults. He will take a bowl of peas over a hamburger any day and in fact he's almost a vegetarian because he's not crazy about most red meat. He loves fruit and eats lots of veggies, bread, yogurt, chicken, tuna, and so on but he likes his food prepared certain ways (usually on the plain side, that's where the picky comes in). Believe me i know italian food, i grew up on it and cook it all the time. I just can't speak Italian. Also i used to be a very picky eater, i drove my parents crazy. As an adult i take great pleasure in eating a good meal. I am comfortable that my son will grow out of being 'picky', my older daughter has and i ceratinly have. Being picky may be a little invconvenient when eating out but it's better than eating disorders. And he has been well fed on previous trips even if it was mostly bread and fruit. <BR>Thanks for the tidbits in any case. <BR>

Sorry, Marj, if you considered my comments "child rearing advice." I considered them more thoughts on possibilities for *traveling* and *eating* with a child in Italy in the situation you describe. If your son's nine, then I'd bet he could have a lot of fun learning a few key phrases like those mentioned and ordering at least partially himself. And since the Italians are known as particularly fond of kids, they'd probably fall all over themselves at an American nine-year-old who could express a food preference in basic Italian.

Gina, <BR>no harm done. <BR>i spend too much time on this board anyway! <BR> <BR>

Marj, <BR>Linda is right on the difference between marinara and pomodoro sauce and Tina is also corrcet; pasta in Italy is served in a far simpler fashion than many so-called Italian restaurants in the States. Cheese is used sparingly and served on the side, the pasta is not drowned in sauce, so you actually taste it. He'll do fine. By the way, where are you going in Italy? In the North you are more likely to see rice than pasta. <BR> <BR>

Why don't you try to solve the problem in another way? Since there are so many pasta varieties and shapes (in the hundreds if not thousands) try to overcome the problem by proposing weird and wonderful shapes of pasta which will take the mind off the actual sauce being used - one hopes! <BR>Apart from the weirder shapes you ought to be able to find easily (also in many restaurants) farfalle (butterfly or bowtie shaped pasta) and conchiglie (shell shaped).

When I looked into the marinara question, I found that Italians supposedly don't like to mix fish and cheese. Thus fishermen, who live mainly on fish at sea, have a cheeseless sauce! <BR> <BR>Doug

Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately), denominations as "alla marinara" or "salsa al pomodoro" don't translate to a fixed set of ingredients and preparation even in Italy. It's not standard as the Big Mac. <BR> <BR>KT explained the origin of the "alla marinara" sauce. To be used by sailors at sea, it shouldn't carry any ingredients of the "animal" world ... including cheese! Also, most probably for conservation purposes, this sauce takes a relatively large portion of olive oil and is cooked for hours (families used to prepare it in large quantities and use it during a relatively long time before cooking a new portion). Garlic, basil, parsel and black pepper are the other normally used ingredients and sometimes it also takes red pepper (don't know how it's called in English ... peperoncini rossi). <BR> <BR>Not only abroad, also in Italy restaurants started preparing their own version of the sauce: alla marinara con molecche ... con calamari ... con seppie ... con vongole, etc, which in many places nowadays has been simplified to alla marinara, period. <BR> <BR>It doesn't cost, therefore, to ask for "alla marinara" ... la tradizionale. <BR> <BR>The "salsa di pomodoro" takes much less olive oil and, as explained by Linda, is cooked in a fraction of an hour. It's therefore much lighter. Besides the garlic and herbs, the traditional sauce takes a carot, a red onion and "sedano" (the word in English escapes me). Here one has less chance to be "mislead" but there are regional differences (for instance, the "salsa di pomodoro alla napolitana" doesn't take the carots, onions, etc.) <BR> <BR>And, yes, one may order <BR>"la pasta in bianco con la salsa a parte" ... but it appears that Marj has left us for good :-( <BR> <BR>Paulo

sedano=celery

You suck

I always did think that Paulo is THE most helpful and impressively knowledgeable regular poster in this forum. Now even on a silly little question it looks like he's the only one who gave the answer the lady actually wanted, while the rest of us did everything from advise re child rearing to offer the history of a pizza variety. Too bad she's probably gone. Marj, where are you?

i'm still here. i like the comments on the origins of pizza margherita and marinara. <BR> <BR>as far as my language limitations when ordering food, i wish my italian grandparents were still alive. i'll just have to depend on on my high school spanish and a italian dictionary. <BR> <BR>i've been to italy before, just not with kids. <BR> <BR> <BR>p.s. i could live without the 'poop' comment. <BR> <BR>

This is a great exchange, poop's remark excepted. Thank you for asking the question, Marj, because my husband's diet is medically restricted and some of this information will be very useful and pretty much all of it is interesting.

Another question: is risotto generally cooked con burro ? Will most restaurants cook it instead with a little olive oil if asked? Or even, "in bianco"?

Oh, good. I contributed the origins of pizza Margheritia tidbit. I obtained the info from a reliable source. I was afraid it might've been among the irrelevant nonresponsive postings that annoyed you.

one last comment today...for those italian food fanatics, if you haven't already done so, check out the movie "Big Night" with Stanley Tucci about italian brothers in nj with a struggling ital. restaurant. it's a great 'food' movie.

I take it your talking about a plain risotto, Judy. <BR> <BR>I'd say (though I wouldn't bet my life on it) that most plain risottos you'll find in Italian restaurants are prepared with butter. <BR> <BR>Abundant butter is used to sauté a minced onion and herbs, and then to sauté the rice, before adding the wine and meat broth. Instead of the butter, one may of course use olive oil. <BR> <BR>But butter (and parmesan cheese) is also normally added when the rice's readdy. This is to give the risotto a creamy texture. As a matter of fact, instead of butter one may use cream, to make it even softer. If you find the term "mantecato" in the menu you can bet that cream has been used to prepare it. <BR> <BR>Now, if you ask your risotto be made with olive oil instead of butter, the chef won't have a way to "correct" the texture of the risotto if he's off the mark when cooking the rice (proportions of rice and broth). <BR> <BR>Risotto in bianco IMO makes little sense. I would understand it as a color diferentiator (risotto in verde, risotto in nero). What could make sense is "riso in bianco" ... but this is not a risotto, because it isn't cooked in wine and broth. It's cooked in water. <BR> <BR>Paulo

Alternatively instead of ending up sounding similar to "Del Boy" from "Only Fools and Horses" try speaking in English, as most Italians would understand you - asking for p-l-a-i-n pasta, very clearly and simply.