How common are internet cafes REALLY?
 

It may not be representative, but 3 yrs ago during a 3 week trip to Greece I could only find ONE public internet cafe in Athens. Beyond that, there were essentially none, and especially so outside of Athens.

Reason I'm dredging up this topic, is next month my college age son departs on a 4 month trip thru western (and some eastern) europe and seems dead set in bringing along a notebook PC.

Besides risk of theft (he'll be mainly staying in hostels, budget hotels, or pensions), it seems a hassle and may start to feel like a boat anchor in the daypack -- with no safe place to store it.

Admittedly a notebook PC is a great convenience (for checking itineraries, making reservations, researching, emailing photos, etc). And every Starbucks now has secure Wireless internet access (for a modest fee).

So how common, REALLY, are internet cafes, especially as one leaves the ultra-urban large cities? Son's main itinerary over 4 months is expected to include UK (England & Scotland), France, Spain, Italy, Czech Republic, and Hungary.

Common. Comma, Chameleon : Karma.

Is your question about how common they are specifically in Greece today? or just any country in general? I noticed 2 years ago in Paris they were readily available. I hear they are very common in certain Italian towns as well, like Rom and Florence.

very common in Prague also..and of course I meant Rome, not Rom.

I was surprised, in France and Germany at least, by the prominence of Internet cafes. Here are a few tips:

1. If your son has a specific itinerary in mind, it would be a good idea for him to do some research online and arrive with a list of cafes convenient to the places where he'll be staying. Internet Cafe listings are available online.

2. Unless it's absolutely necessary (e.g. for work or school), traveling with a computer is a bad idea. The vast majority of laptops sold today are quite heavy; who would want to lug a 5+ pound device all over Europe? The risk of theft is also very real. Hoteliers, transportation companies, and locker providers generally disclaim responsibility for electronic devices.

3. Many Internet cafes have computer stations and don't require patrons to bring their own computers. The charge is, of course, a little higher than for patrons who have their own laptops and just need wireless access.

Paul Marcelin-Sampson
Santa Cruz, California, USA

I was in Hungary in September 2004, and there was an Internet place a block from my cousin's apartment in which we were staying. This was an ordinary residential neighbourhood of Budapest, and not an area that particularly catered to tourists. I'm trying to locate in my travel notes the price that the Internet cafe charged, but I'm not finding it that easy to find a reference to it. Anyway, I remember thinking to myself that the price was incredibly reasonable.

That said, we did not attempt to access the Internet when we were travelling through the Hungarian countryside and staying in small towns, so I have no idea how prevalent Internet facilities are outside of the big cities.

HOWEVER, we used an Ekit phone card and the associated voice mail service. When we did not have access to the Internet, we had the option of having our Ekit e-mails read to us over the phone. They were read out in a tinny-sounding, machanical voice that nevertheless was perfectly clear.

As we were being driven around Hungary by a cousin, our itinerary was a bit fluid, and we weren't able to provide our young adult kids in Calgary with contact details for each night we'd be away. We did promise them, however, that we would check our voice mail at least once every 24 hours. We found this to be a very effective solution for folks who were following a flexible itinerary.

I personally subscribe to the KIS (keep it simple) philosophy. If it was my trip, I would not encumber myself with a laptop or notebook, more especially if I was going to be travelling on trains and staying in hostels.

Aside from the notebook issue, here is the Universal Packing List that your son may find helpful:

http://upl.codeq.info/index.jsp

One completes a questionnaire about the weather in one's destinations, the kinds of accommodation in which one will stay, the kinds of transportation one will use, and the activities one will undertake, and the website provides one with a customized packing list.

http://upl.codeq.info/index.jsp

Another excellent website to supplement the Universal Packing List is the One Bag website at:

http://www.oratory.com/onebag/home.html#start

Hope that helps.

I have found internet access in Italy, even in smaller towns like Siena and Orvieto, to be excellent.

Also, there is internet access other than just "internet cafes." For example, I have gone online at public libraries in England and Switzerland (no charge), and have found internet access in bookstores and small hotels in Italy (minor fee).

It also is my impression that there are more opportunities for internet access all the time. If tourists go there, sooner rather than later there will be an internet cafe.

Unless your son has other reasons for taking along his PC I would sure discourage him. If he's staying in hostels, he will have to drag the PC around with him every day all over the place. Likelihood of it getting stolen seems disproportionately high to me.

We saw many in Greece this past September, although I suppose it's possible they've just appeared since your visit 3 years ago.

I wouldn't recommend your son take a PC on a backpacking trip - he'd be a target for thieves at worst and a target for hordes of other young people he'll meet to borrow his PC at best. And who needs one more thing to lug around?
All the new friends he'll make will also be hunting down internet cafes, which are very common. It'll help him meet people.

I could be wrong about this, but I'm nearly certain there are far more internet cafes in Europe than there are Starbucks. (but Starbucks is gaining fast, I'm sure) :)

What about a Blackberry or the like, instead of a pc? More portable, easier to secure, also works off wifi...

Post at the Eurotrip.com/forum site and the thorntree.lonelyplanet.com site and you can no doubt find out the locations of all the needed Internet cafes in advance.

I can't recommend traveling with a laptop on the budget trail (hostels, etc.). Worth too much $ and too much of a hassle. Where will he lock it up? Does he really plan to carry it in his daypack everywhere he goes?

I don't know about the countryside, but in cities internet cafes are extremely common.

For a four-month trip, I think the min fator is: does he WANT to take it? If so, then he should. I would be miserable to go four months without my computer, even if I had regular (daily) access to the internet n public locations - - and he may well might.

Our daughter is in Scotland for four months, and has daily internet acess (on campus) at the University of Stirling - - and she had a choice of takig a laptop or not, and she has been fine with the decision not to take one (even re-affirmed at the first of November, when she came home for our oldest daughter's wedding). But that is her personality, and I think that thematters is how your son feels about his 5 pound computer as a "personal atttachment".

He may find that internet cafes are easier, and possibly even more plentiful than WiFi access. But still... for "journaling", offline composing and reading of e-mails, playing with or reviewing photos - - there are plenty of reasons that he might enjoy having his computer. By the way, the ability to read and write to diskettes can make it easier to move files, of course.

He faces hundreds of situations for which he is going to have to exercise good judgment in 4 months. This is yet another one - - a decision he can and should be in the position to make, based on his own criteria.

Best wishes,

Rex

yeh lots of Internet Cafes where you can log on without your own PC. EasyInternet, run by EasyJet company is in most large cities and has a reasonable 3 euro/hr rate. Many hotels have but often 5 euros for a few minutes. Youth hostels mainly have them as do some McDonalds and most libraries. IN UK recently i used libraries for free access - didn't seem to have to be a card holder. So they're ubiquitous; think three times about taking the notebook (or check with your insurance co to see if it's covered, may well be.

He does have to make his own decision, but he also should think about what he will do with his computer when he arrives at a hostel which has no lockers, no front desk attendants at night, a 40-person dorm, and he wants to take a shower in a tiny cubicle that doesn't allow watching his stuff.

And how devastated would he be if he lost it or it was stolen? There are MANY internet cafes, libraries, hotels, hostels, even some department stores w/ access, and many B&Bs will allow guests to log on to check their e-mail.

I've mainly been in France and Italy in recent years, but I've honestly seen more internet cafés there than in the metropolitan DC area. Even the tiniest village in France seems to have one these days. I think the notebook will become a pain after a few days.

I also would not recommend packing it along especially when there is more internet access in Europe than ever before. BUT, one solution to safeguarding it in a hostel situation might be to use a PacSafe device to secure it to a rigid device.

What is he really going to use a PC for anyway? E-mail...easy enough to set up an e-mail account on HotMail and check it wherever he goes.

But, if he is "dead set" on it then ALLOW him the opportunity to use this decision as a learning experience if you can. If nothing else it might drive home the fact that we all make choices and some are good and some aren't.

Couldnt answer your question about Greece and would tend to discourage carrying a notebook. A few notes from my last few vacations in Europe.

Spain- Downtown Madrid (my hotel was near the Puerta del Sol) there were at least 4 internet cafes within walking distance. Prices were quite cheap as i remember. Seville-a few places near the Cathedral.Granada-large place run by the spanish telephone company, right across from the Columbus statue. Segovia-right next to the aqueduct.

Paris- in the latin quarter. i found internet access somewhat limited and often quite expensive. Ask the attendant if you can use an english keyboard, writing email on the french keyboard is not easy if youre on the clock.

Italy-this year, it seemed that many hotels (3 star) had a common use computer on the property. In Venice you wre charged for it, in rome you were not. Florence and Bolzano you had computer in the room, is this quite common in places that are newly renovated?

but noticed your son will have a 4 month trip, not sure that carrying ones own notebook might be more economical.

Hi tom,

Your son is nuts. :)

However if he wants to take his computer, let him; as long as he realizes that you aren't going to buy him another one.

>>>>>>However if he wants to take his computer, let him; as long as he realizes that you aren't going to buy him another one.<<<<<<

Also, I would strongly suggest that he refrain from storing identifying information (social security number, bank account numbers, etc.) on it.

My son emailed me regularly from Nepal, he writes to me often from Japan,he has emailed me from Thailand, he has been all over Europe ( really, ALL over Europe) and he emails his mother!
He will be going to India soon, he will email from there too, or so I hear.

I've only looked for them in Florence and Assis in 2002, and found them easily. I don't usually need the Internet when I'm on vacagion, unless I need to e-mail people I'm planning to meet later in the trip, as I was on that trip in 2002. Though I wasn't looking, I did see Internet cafes in Antalya, Turkey and in some parts of Cappadocia, Turkey. I think I saw a few, but not many, in Palermo, Bologna, and Venice. I didn't notice any elsewhere in Sicily, but I wasn't looking or expecting to find any. Where I know I didn't see any at all was in Basilicata. Womeone in the small group I was traveling with kept looking ofr one. He finally was able to get on the Internet because some business owner let him use the business computer. Most businesses didn't have Interent acccess either. This was in 2001.

I think a practical consideration would be finding an ISP that covered this itinerary, plus, not to mention having to also carry one or more plug adapters and perhaps a converter if the PC is not dual voltage. Don't recall what the phone jacks looked like in CZ or Hungary, so maybe need all sorts of phone cables. Even the wi-fi route is not going to charge the battery or provide a local ISP. Also think would be cheaper to use internet cafes, fairly sure the Starbucks charge.

I sometimes take my powerbook and sometimes not; the internet cafes are so easy seems less and less necessary.

I took my PDA on my last two European jaunts, and never missed having a PC. See:

<b>http://www.fodors.com/forums/pgMessages.jsp?fid=2&amp;tid=34474486</b>

My first response was - why can't a college age kid make up his own mind about this?
Now that that's out of the way...
Internet cafes are quite plentiful in Europe. Outside major cities, the local post office or library often provides access. Cost varies widely.
This is not the same as having your own machine. I carried a small laptop on a Paris trip, but the apartment we were using had high speed access. It was a bit of a pain to have to look after the machine (be careful where and how you toss that backpack or duffle!) but it was nice to be able to go online for transportation info, local sights, restaurants, events schedules, etc. as well as for email. I also did a bit of journaling. In addition, each day or two I uploaded the photos from my digital camera so had a backup copy, was even able to email some shots while on the road.
I would agree with posters who caution about the potential for theft, and the caveat about not storing sensitive info (SSN, bank or CC accounts, etc) is also a good one. Most hotels offer a safe (some in the room) to store the machine while out, not sure about hostels. Also be sure to check that the machine will work on 220v current.

I would be tormented, traveling four months without my laptop. I carry mine in my backpack - in fact, got a new backpack from ebags.com this year which has a special padded pouch for the laptop.

I'm sure it would be easier for your son to shoulder a 5 lb laptop than it was for me. The risk of theft is there, of course....

If availabity to Google or other research sites, or to fire off some emails, were the only reasons, I'd suggest the internet cafe option too. In Hungary, I saw (and sometimes used) them in Budapest, Tokaj, Eger and Nyiregyhaza. Shoot, there were three in Sighisoara, Romania in a five block radius. You have to find a wi-fi place anyway to get on the net, or work out a worldwide list of dial-up numbers with your ISP.

I've spent nearly half my life with a laptop as an appendage. No way would I want to look after one on a trip.

Common as muck, to coin a phrase. Take a walk anywhere and he'll literally be tripping over them. Any Tourist Info Centre will help. In UK, public libraries offer free use - although if they're busy you may have to prebook an hour or so ahead. I was fascinated how the keyboards differ in every country - everywhere you go is a whole new learning experience!

what do Italians and the French call internet cafes..in their native language?

They call them internet cafe or cybercafe.

In France the most common term I've seen is &quot;point internet.&quot;

In Italy they were &quot;Internet Point&quot;.

Scarlett, my niece just returned from a 12-week stint in India (Jaipur, Old Delhi, New Delhi, and some others that I can't remember) and emailed quite regularly. Is it for that program that works with kids in India? That's what my niece did--she was teaching kids Spanish, which is bizarre because she speaks French. Shrug.

Let me know if your son needs more information.

Tom, I've been to Europe as recently as a few months ago and found an abundance of internet cafes. The only city so far that seems to have an inadequate amount of internet cafes (with inadequate hours) is Venice.

I do not recommend schlepping a laptop around - PocketPC models abound, and they do everything a notebook does, albeit with a smaller screen. You can slip them into a pocket, and connect to the Internet through the hotspots that have popped up everywhere in the world (since tom_h was in Greece three years ago). The WiFi security issues are no more severe than those associated with using someone else's computer in a cafe, and the form factor allows you to take your computer everywhere instead of leaving it at the hotel (you DID bring it to <u>use</u>, didn't you?) I can't imagine walking out of my hotel room without the travel tools in my PDA:

Besides the built-in appointment calendar, contacts etc., I load

Daily news and e-mail when I'm in a hotspot
Flight numbers, times, gates
Train times, platforms
Hotel addresses, phones, confirmation nos.
Restaurant addresses, phones
Maps with GPS
Subway/bus routing program (M&eacute;tro)
Language dictionaries/phrase books
Reading material (several novels)
Sightseeing possibilities
Currency calculator
Bank, consulate phone numbers
Passport numbers
Credit card numbers, PINs (encrypted)
Travel diary...

Check out http://cybercafe.com/. Internet cafes are everywhere. The site I listed will help find a convenient ones along the way.
-Sharon

Some hotels also provide free internet access for their customers. This is also true of hostels. And as others have mentioned, libraries, etc.

An essential item I include in my packing list is keyboard map for the country where I will be traveling. You can find these at http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/r...keyboards.aspx. As wildfire indicated there can be all sorts of problems finding the special characters you seek. I never thought to ask for a US keyboard...I might also try that trick... thanks, Wildfire.

I'm sure he'll have quite an adventure.
-Sharon

Thanks for the link to the keyboard map site, Sharon! It's bad enough to have to get used to letters being in a different place (like the French keyboard), but when you can't figure out where the @ sign is, you've got a big problem.

I answered in some detail above, but just in cae you missed it, I want to emphasize that they are not common ALL over Europe.

Oops, Sharon, that link doesn't work. Can you double check it?

Also meant to add that in Italy they are sometimes called Internet Punto (point).

Marilyn, the website that Sharon provided is working for me (many thanks, Sharon!).

Perhaps the problem is that, when you copy the URL, you include the period at the end of Sharon's sentence. I've just tried it both ways, and including the period definitely messes it up.