Hospital nightmare in Venice
 

I was hospitalized at the Ospedale SS and wanted to write from a “patient’s” perspective. On the first day of a 12-day vacation in Italy I fell and broke my leg (tibial plateau fracture) while on a boat in Venice. When the boat docked, the captain told our escort (in Italian) that he couldn’t take me to the ER and my husband would have to carry me about 1000 yards to another boat! I was in agony with pain. Finally got to this hospital and NO ONE spoke English or attempted to nor did anyone offer assistance with translation. We figured out through our tour guide that my leg was broken and that I needed surgery ASAP. Also that I had to spend THREE weeks there in bed! We had no choice. Took me to a barren 4-bed ward (again no English) with manual beds and no privacy curtains. It took us awhile to realize you have to bring in your own liquids (water, etc)! I was taken for an MRI, etc. then surgery was two days later. My husband said that they had me sign a consent for two pints of blood while I was just out of recovery and not coherent! I was totally at their mercy. The second week there, a patient in the room went into respiratory distress and the entire ER team came in to treat her in front of us! She died! No family is allowed in the room when the doctors do rounds so my husband never got to talk to them! My insurance company sent a rescue nurse (Thank God!) to fly home with us and the hospital would not give her any of my records or X-rays so when I got home my Ortho had nothing to go by. Thankfully he said the surgery looked good. They also left the catheter in for the three weeks I was there so I came home with a terrible UTI. This is a warning to anyone going there that’s not an Italian citizen….beware! And most importantly, buy trip insurance!

What an awful experience, debbizsc. I'm very glad to learn the you came through it and that your physician says the surgery looked good. And yes, travel insurance -- with appropriate health coverage (I always look for a policy that includes hospital-of-one's-choice coverage and evacuation coverage) can be really important.

Good luck with your continued recovery!

What an ordeal! And yes, open wards are not unusual in Europe - four beds is actually on the small side. When I spent a night in a Swiss hospital I think there were six beds, but they were in a U round a tall filing cabinet. In England, back in the dark ages, they were much bigger.

Sorry for your needless travails but not all Italian hospitals are like that - also fell down - in Naples and smashed my head - bleeding like heck - anyway ended up in ER and had a friendly translator with me at all times from admisssion to ER to discharge to a taxi - for X-rays, stitches, etc. Everyone who so so helpful - now I was not there for weeks but they did not even charge me a cent for several hours of treatment and observation. they said they had no facilities to charge and collect being a single-payer national free system.

So don't paint all Italian hospitals as terrbile to non-Italians.

But again I feel very sorry for the unbelievable way how you were treated in Venice - and yes trip cancellation insurance a must to evacuate folks back home.

Nasty, I'm very unimpressed by the boat captain.

So sorry this happened to you. Yes, a bit of a nightmare. I might've given the boat driver an excellent version of the Ugly American for refusing to take me to the other boat. Hard to believe he made your husband carry you a thousand yards! That is absolutely unacceptable even cruel.

Glad your ordeal is over and, best of all, that the surgery was done properly.

OMG. What bad luck, to break your leg on the first day of your 12-day vacation!
Sorry to hear it and how awful it was to get treatment.

Thanks for sharing.

I wonder if an Italian breaking a leg in US would be treated better, have a translator available and so on.

By the way, how much the Italian hospital did charge you?

That is awful. And thank goodness for rescue nurses. They are the highest form of humanity.

As the old saying goes, break a leg with your recovery.

You were there for three weeks and your husband never found a translator to talk to the hospital or doctor?

It's a weird first post. I mean, the boat captain sounds like a jerk but everything else just sounds like either there was a procedure you were unaware of- like would a rescue nurse be able to even request records for a patient in the US? I would think you'd need to request those personally? Or not all that abnormal for a hospital. Maybe they didn't have time to remove your roommate before attempting to save their life? They had you sign a consent for what I'd assume was a necessary part of your treatment.

It sounds like a lousy bit of luck, and I don't like hospitals, but by your own admittance, they knew what they were doing, the surgery turned out fine and they didn't abuse you...so what exactly is the "beware" for?

The boat captain was a real jerk. Why didn't he just call an ambulance? He didn't have to take you to the emergency room personally.

There are definitely differences between European hospitals and American hospitals. The biggest difference is the cost. My daughter was hospitalized for tests once, and for a three-day stay, the cost was less than €500. My niece once was treated in the emergency room after fainting twice, and they did a whole battery of tests for heart conditions, as well as brain scans, electroencephalogram, etc. The entire cost was about €100.

In Italian hospitals, you're usually expected to provide not only your own beverages (except the hot milk they give you for breakfast), but also your own plate, glass, and cutlery. They don't give out hospital gowns; you have to have your own PJs.

I've been in the hospital three times here in Italy. I've always been in a double room, but it was always for scheduled surgery. Emergency cases sometimes can't be accommodated in the best rooms if there are no vacancies. I once had that happen to me in the US, years ago, when I was an emergency patient: I was in a ward with about a dozen people.

I'm very surprised that you couldn't get any records. We always get our X-rays, etc., on a CD. Sometimes you have to wait several days to get them. Maybe that was the problem?

All in all, I've had excellent medical treatment in Italy. It's much better than what my daughters get in the US.

Actually, I would expect the insurance company to talk to the hospital. That is certainly what happened when I broke my wrist and wound up in the Swiss hospital.

Hadn't realized this was a first post. Also, I thought Venice had hospital boats - it certainly has cemetery boats. And what was the "escort"?

Ah, yes, there are hospital boats, and an emergency number to summon one:

http://europeforvisitors.com/venice/...nal-safety.htm

>>I wonder if an Italian breaking a leg in US would be treated better, have a translator available and so on.<<

Ridiculous. Why would "an Italian breaking a leg in the US" be treated differently from an American breaking a leg in the US?

I'm amazed some travel insurance company sent a nurse to Italy to escort someone home. Seriously? That is incredible service. I would like to know the name of that insurance company, actually, since I gather this post was a form of consumer advice.

I have a friend who is a translator for hospitals in the US where I live. It's a good job for her as she is a retired language teacher and fluent in both Spanish and French, so she works only part-time and can be on-call, but can work as she wishes. I'm sure a podunk hospital like where I grew up (a typical county hospital in Ohio) would not have such services, though, although they could perhaps get a Spanish-speaker around, but not French most likely. In any case, I'm sure major hospitals in major cities have translation services and people on call, but smaller hospitals wouldn't and they can't cover all languages, of course. Italian would not be as likely as French or Spanish, of course, or where I live now, various languages from Africa or India or China are more common than Italian.

Venice is a major city with a lot of tourista and I would expect hospitals there to have English translators, that does seem unusual. Hospitals not providing you water seems really bad, I'm shocked at that (or that you have to provide your own dishes). First, it seems kind of unsanitary or medically dangerous (what if someone was bringing in vodka as water, for example), second, what if you didn't have friends or family nearby, then what would they do? Let you dehydrate?

What do you mean it’s a weird first post? How insulting! And no, my husband wasn’t able to find anyone to translate and tried. The entire experience was a nightmare regardless of the fact that, thank God, the surgery was done well. Regarding the records....the insurance doctors requested the records as did I but they wouldn’t give them to us. I mentioned the roommate because there were no curtains, partitions, etc. it was like being in the middle of an ER and very upsetting. My orthopedist said they left the catheter in for three weeks because “they were too lazy to get me out of bed!” Everyone back in the States, including family in the medical profession, was shocked at them keeping me in bed all that time and making me sign for my own blood transfusion (they wouldn’t let my husband sign) while I was still groggy from anesthesia!

I’m not saying every hospital in Italy is bad....just that this one was a horrible experience and I’ve seen similar posts on other websites (same hospital) that have had bad experiences which prompted me to write this “first post.” I was just trying to make people aware of what my experience was. When the rescue nurse arrived they literally threw her out of the room which she said she’d never experienced!

Yes, I've seen water ambulances, with sirens and all, in Venice. I'm shocked that the boat captain didn't call one, and even more shocked at the tour guide.

I thought that tour guides were at least equipped to interface with emergency care providers.

Please share the tour company, because I will make sure anyone I know avoids them.

To me, the hospital situation doesn't sound that abnormal, but the lack of follow through from the tour company is appalling.

The name of our insurance company was Travel Safe and they were terrific! We had no idea it included a travel nurse who was a godsend! She was with me literally from my hospital room to my bedroom at home...through numerous airports and planes. It was about $30,000 tor the trip home (which was all covered in addition to the hospital fees) and they had wheelchairs, etc. at every stop then a limo to bring me to our house.

They knew we were having trouble communicating even in describing medication I was on but made no attempt to find a translator. It was as if they didn’t like Americans. Only one doctor who spoke some English was nice and sympathetic.

I am sorry you were so upset by your experience. Are you OK now?

My first trip to Italy I also ended up in the hospital (for 14 days). The only English speaking staff (in Bologna) was a nurse who had studied in Canada. My husband and I used a translation service provided by our credit card company to communicate with doctors.

I was actually amused by the old-fashioned patriarchal "doctor making the rounds" routine in the Italian hospital. It's not just your husband who couldn't speak to the doctor. When I "dared" to asking the chief doctor some questions about my situation, the entire staff with him turned white with shock. The doctor was equally amused to have an American female patient pestering him with medical questions who actually didn't speak any Italian. Somehow, we communicated, and got along rather famously.

Because I had a very bad case of pneumonia, for which the basic treatment was bad rest & an intervenous drip of antibiotics, I was put into an enormous women's ward, mostly geriatric females. My husband and I were flabbergasted that he was expected to provide things like pajamas towels and eating utensils for my hospital stay, the kind of things a family might provide. Partly our shock was due to the lack of concern for "sterile".

We were adopted by other families in the ward, who shopped for us. To this day, it brings tears to me eyes that Italians who had troubles of their own would see our confusion, our need, and help us.

The treatment was excellent. Some years later, I moved to Italy. As a resident, I have needed to use the hospitals several times. Some are better than others, but I continue to be very pleased with the medical care I have received in Italy, both on an emergency basis and long term.

I have mixed feelings about the care my family has received in American hospitals.

Want to add:

We did not have trip insurance for that trip. The hospital did not charge us for anything except the antibiotics, which came to about 400 euros. However, we did lose money on non-refundable hotel bookings, changing transportation tickets, etc.

Since then, we have never traveled without trip insurance.

I think many people have a very rosy picture of what hospitals are like, which quickly gets upended if you or your loved ones must be in one, whether that it is the US or another country. Everybody loves the staff and hospital where their babies were born, but things get more contentious when it comes to adutls and even more so elderly patients. Then people are outraged -- whether it is the US or Europe or Aisa.

All that said, I once spent 10 days in a Japanese hospital where the nurses always bowed before and after giving me an injection. And they were so clean, I thought I might have died and gone to heaven. My room had sliding paper doors and the whole hospital was serenely quiet. I wish all hospitals everywhere could be like that.

I agree with tuscanlifedit that the boat captain and tour guide didn't do enough. I'm also surprised that the tour guide was not at least conversant in Italian. He/ she should've been aware of ambulance boats and called for one.

Having lived abroad,the situation in the hospital wouldn't have been too important. There is a U.S. consulate in Venice so surprised that you didn't try to contact them especially in regard to the language limitations. I certainly wouldn't expect the hospital staff to be English speaking. A very unfortunate experience for you so glad you are doing well.

One thing I found weird about my encounter with ERs in Naples and Florence was that in Naples they advised I get a tetanus shot which I had not had in a while but they said they could not do it there and gave me a prescription for the vaccine to get at a pharmacy and to buy a syringe to give it to myself. The pharmacists even said something about why can't you give it to yourself when I asked where I could go to have it adminstered properly.

So I guess Italians routinely give shots to themselves?

Or they told me I could get the vaccine and go to an ER in Florence to have it administered -which I did and again encountered only very helpful folk there - again no charge to me except for the syringe cost.

Two ERs and two very very good experiences with them - maybe all Italian hospitals are not like Venice's?

And yes the boat captain was awful to your plight - but when I fell down in Naples (whilst eating a gelato and stepped into a pothole on the main square in front of train station) and banged my head hard with the fall - smashing the gelato all around my face - I was literally dazed and confused for a couple of minutes - not even realizing where I was- in Naples - the rumored den of pickpockets and street crime - my day pack next to me for easy plucking but several locals came to help me - to walk me to the first aid station in the train station where they called an ambulance and guided once at ER by an English-speaking male nurse who was so friendly -staying by me the whole time.

Sure changed by impression of Naples as dicey -could not have been more helpful and friendly. And they even gave me OJ and a snack to drink while under observation waiting for X-rays to be read.

But in Venice perhaps like NYC they see so many tourists they can be quite rude perhaps.

But again I would not paint all Italian hospitals with the same brush as OP did.

Again my experience was not nearly so debilitating as OP and I just went to ER but the people of Naples and ER were so so nice.

"And no, my husband wasn’t able to find anyone to translate and tried."

Did he contact the US embassy?

"there were no curtains, partitions, etc"

As I posted above, open wards are standard practice in Europe. The provision of private beds in hospitals is one of the many reasons US medical costs are so high. Partitions for medical procedures in the ward are also standard, but probably not for emergencies.

"making me sign for my own blood transfusion"

Surely that would also have happened in the US, unless your husband held your medical power of attorney.

"We had no idea it included a travel nurse"

A good medical repatriation insurance plan will include this. It pays to read the fine print.

Still waiting for info on the tour company/guide/escort.

It appears that Venice proper only has one hospital, the Ospedale SS. Giovanni e Paolo - is that where you were?

What a nightmare debbiszc and what a jerk that boat captain was. I'm sorry you had to go through that. You must have been in such pain.

Massimop, I have to tell you that I so enjoy your posts.

I'm not sure what the sterility concern is, that several people have mentioned. Is it because your plate, glass, and cutlery don't get sterilized? I assumed that because you're the only one using them, it wouldn't matter. It had never occurred to me that it might be unsanitary.

As for people who don't bring their own water, utensils, etc., the first time I was in the hospital, I didn't know I needed to bring my own utensils, and the hospital did provide me with a plastic cup and plastic fork. (My Italian husband knew, but forgot to tell me. He brought me the necessary utensils the next day) Water is on sale in vending machines, and I'm sure that if a patient had no family around, a nurse would get a bottle of water from a vending machine.

I've had unfailingly caring nurses in my hospital stays. When I rang a buzzer, someone appeared almost instantly. On my longest stay, I had to stay practically motionless for three days, and had to call a nurse for nearly everything, except when my husband was there. They never seemed impatient or rushed when I called. When I went home, the whole ward staff came to say goodbye to me, and one of the nurses even gave me a hug. (I guess hugs aren't very sterile, either.)

Missed the bit about the fact you were on an organized tour. Yikes. I agree, I'd like the name of the company who hired a guide so incompetent they couldn't help get you to the hospital or follow up and find a translator for you. Why smear the hospital that actually repaired you and not the company that really dropped the ball? One of the reasons many people buy tours is so they have help in case of an emergency.

I would also prefer to have my own pajamas during a hospital stay, so I don't see much of a problem there. Like bvlenci said- sterility matters in terms of what patients can catch from other patients. You'll use your cutlery when you go home anyway. The vodka thing makes me laugh- it's not like you can't sneak stuff into American hospitals, after all.

Most of the relatives who have been hospitalized have had catheters in the whole time if they couldn't get to the toilet unassisted. But I don't know how immobilized you were or what is standard in Italian hospitals, and admittedly, my main experience with hospitals has been with older relatives who were hospitalized for fairly serious illnesses.

But I am curious- question for bvlenci and others who might know- if you're a solo traveller or a local that doesn't have close family and friends to bring your stuff, what does the hospital do then? You'd still need clean clothing and if you're hospitalized for 3 weeks, it's not like you can go out and get that for yourself.

I'm sorry you broke your leg on your trip.

I can't see that the hospital was at fault in anyway. They repaired your leg, and treated you as they would a local.
Your tour company/guide let you down, your insurance company let you down, but the hospital did what was expected of it.

I see you have posted your complaint elsewhere too.

"I'm not sure what the sterility concern is"

I'm no longer sure either, but it is simply a fact that in American hospitals and doctor's offices, everything is wrapped in cellophane and disposable, everything is bleached. So it's just a real surprise to be told to wash your own own cutlery in the hospital or bring your own towels.

I was also given plastic cutlery, since we hadn't brought our own, but I didn't know I was supposed to wash it and keep it! So the staff was beside themselves when they found out I'd just tossed mine after the 1st meal. The gave me a second set and I was a good patient after that.

" if you're a solo traveller or a local that doesn't have close family and friends to bring your stuff, what does the hospital do then? "

Nothing, really. They leave you to figure it out, although I'm not sure what would happen if you were a solo traveler. My husband went out towell shopping and pajama shopping. He came back with the most expensive stuff imaginable! I have never had such luxurious stuff. He didn't know to go to the "euro per euro" shops, so he was buying stuff out of the high end stores he spotted near the hotel where we were staying. Hilarious, really. (Since I recovered.)

But like I said, Italian families in the ward saw that we were clueless tourists and brought us stuff from their houses. And despite bvlenci's testimony about how much she came to love her doting murses and hospital staff, several of the Italians who helped us were not happy with the hospital crews. ("Fascisti" was a word I heard more than once.") The hospital operated on a system (so do others I've been to Italy), and of course there is a bureaucracy and other obstacles.

But honestly, I've had to confront the exact same issues in various American hospitals. In Japan, I was lucky that a Japanese missionary nurse was associated with the hospital where I landed because she spoke a good deal of English as a result of her overseas missionary work. She adopted me. None of the other staff spoke English. They would show up in my room with a Japanese-English dictionary, and I still couldn't make out what they were trying to say to me. (This was in Kanazawa).

If you go to foreign countries and don't speak the language, you can't expect to find automatically English-language help in an emergency. I once had to go to the doctor in rural Argentina, and that was truly comic (fortunately I wasn't a critical case).

Travel insurance and credit card insurance usually provide emergency translation help. US consulates might be able to help. But when you travel, you are taking risks. That said, I know half a dozen or more dire health emergency in Italy travel stories from friends. All of them got excellent care, and usually no bill.

I don't know if the OP has ever gone to ERs in major American cities, or if all her previous hospital experiences have been rosy. That is not my experience or expectation of US hospitals. Some are great, a lot need major improvement in every direction. Italians face the same challenges, but like I said, foreigners I know who have been in Italian hospitals usually tell stories 100 percent opposite the OPs. They are impressed.

micheline -- great!

Much is said about the friendliness of Italians, but in my expethence of travel to Italy, I didn't find them to be very helpful or altruistic.

Especially Romans and Northern Italians.

Sicilians and Napolotians are much nicer.

Well, judging by your most recent attempt to troll, loacker...they may have just had you pegged.

I too am sorry for your horrible experience; it sounds awful. I especially can't get over the fact they kept you catheterized for three weeks.

My husband had to visit the emergency room in Sicily at the University of Palermo (he wasn't hospitalized though), and we had a really good experience. A translator was provided for us by phone, and we had a doctor whose English was quite good. I did say up front though that we needed a translator. The treatment was excellent, and we weren't charged a cent.

We saw people wandering around in their own pajamas and thought perhaps they had come in unexpectedly in the middle of the night. Then, we found out about the need to bring your own pajamas.

Actually, I'd be fine with a system like that in the US if it would help to cut down our exorbitant healthcare costs. I believe that in many countries other than the US larger wards (like we had here in the US 50 years ago) are the norm.

I am curious if your husband did contact the embassy. (I am assuming maybe erroneously that you are from the US.) Read this extremely interesting article the Washington Post printed a year or so ago about volunteers who help out Americans who end up with problems or illness in a foreign country.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifes...=.e507a3ac5324

Google translate. I am surprised by the cath being in that long. Bedpans are the norm here after a couple of days even with severe breaks. Great having the nurse with you.

Such bad luck!

You should always contact your insurance right away if you are expecting language problems. My husband's Swiss German cousin was skiing in Japan recently and one in their group fell badly and they managed to get someone that spoke German to the hospital in very little time that also told them what to expect.

Other than that, I can't see any real problems. Of course non-qualified people don't want to move people with broken bones (especially sue-happy English-speakers), if you are getting surgery you may need to stay around for THREE WEEKS, and open wards are the norm in Europe. In some countries you may be able to pay extra for privacy but that is not the case everywhere and every time, it certainly isn't the case in Scandinavia where I live. Here doctors don't talk to relatives during their rounds. Sometimes relatives are only given a phone number to call, I suppose they are not expected to hang around the hospital. It's horrible, if you have some money you are better off in 3rd world countries.

About Venice, I took my husband to the hospital this summer because of a small cut that was getting infected. We thought it was a wonderful hospital, lovely buildings. I went in with him as I speak Italian but they managed to communicate with him as well, in English and German. We got to see a doctor right away, that would have been impossible in Sweden, here you usually communicate with nurses. We were out in no time even though he was given the lowest priority. He was also offered to see a specialist the next day. We were very impressed by the excellent treatment but the we live in a country where efficiency and cost-saving are top priorities. But Swedes also live longer than Americans (and so do Italians) so whatever they are doing they are doing, it can't be that bad.

Can't say my experience of Scandinavian hospitals resembles the above account. Of course Scandinavian doctors talk to relatives when it is appropriate to do so, we visited our in-laws many times in hospital both in Sweden and Denmark and doctors spoke to us. My MIL did have a private room in a Scandinavian hospital. I've had my own experience with Swedish A&E and initially I was examined by nurses but after that they got a specialist doctor in to see me. Not all cases require a doctor from the outset esp when they are first of all checking BP, temperature, taking details of medical history etc. I was supposed to receive a bill for the consultation with the doctor (SEK300) and for the medication but they never sent it.

I find this thread insulting.

Why would Italian hospitals need to have someone speak English ?
Do the staff in NYC speak Italian french and Chinese ?

Why is it a problem - in emergency / to be in a room if 4 ?

Why could not the husband ask somebody about how things go in an Italian hospital ?

Why is it a problem to have the staff trying to save a patient in the eR ?

Why would you care about signing for 2 pints of blood ? I heard you are not even taken into hospitals in the us if you don't provide money ? True ?

At the end of the day you broke your leg you were treated and you even got surgery. What do you want more next time ? Have you leg wrapped in plastic bubbles and sent HOME where everything is perfect ?

You should be thanking the Italian health system for taking care of you not to complain that it didn't equate to a 5 stars hotel !

And yes your captain and the escort were jerk. Maybe you could have flatly refused to move ?

Glad that the surgery went well; so the medical care you got was actually good?

Private rooms are not the norm in Europe. You will be in a ward with other people. And if there is an emergency the doctors will treat someone right there if necessary.
It's not unusual for people to speak Italian, in Italy.
Were you treated differently from the Italian patients there?

Agree that the captain and tour guide should have taken care of you better, that is disgraceful.

What was the name of the tour company?

What puzzles me is ,if you were obviously badly injured that nobody rang 112 .
I think that you can also get an ambulance directly in Venice by dialling 118.
You’d think that all tour guides would have it drummed into them what to do in an emergency.

>>What do you mean it’s a weird first post? How insulting!

Well, it *is* a weird first post. Most first posts are "hey, planning my first trip to X. what should i see?" Most first-posts not of this type are usually trolls.

>>And no, my husband wasn’t able to find anyone to translate and tried.

A tourist info office, especially in a tourism hot spot such as Venice, will always have someone who can speak English. Someone there could have done it or given you a list of translators. Or the US embassy as someone else suggested (assuming there is one in Venice) or a university. Heck, even one of the "we speak english" restaurants might be a good place to look in a pinch.

Your story was almost believable until you mentioned your husband never found a translator after 3 weeks of looking. You got greedy there.

At least your hotel or train didn't get gassed and all your valuables stolen!