Help ! leaving in 1 week need advice
 

I am helping my parents plan their first trip to Europe. They have their flights booked for Aug 19-30. We still have not booked hotels as we are trying to plan the itinerary. They are flying into Rome and out of Paris.

My mom's plan is to spend a couple of nights in Rome, then take the train up to Florence and through to Venice where she will spend a night (not sure if she will spend a night in Florence). From there she will likely head to Paris through either plain or train. THe thing with the train is she could stop in Lucerne and spend the night.

Once in Paris she would like to do a trip over to London for the day, unless it's too far then she will spend one night there and return to Paris.

My question is how do you book train tickets-I have been on the websites for train Italia and Euro rail but cannot figure out what it is they need to buy exactly. Can they hop on and off the trains? Are there buses that do this at lower cost, I figure it is 3 hours btwn rome and florence and 3 between Florence and Venice. I think from Venice she would have to do the overnight into Paris-am I crazy here? The train from London to Paris is 2.5 hours-is there separate tickets for this or is there one big package she can buy with all their tickets?

I think it might be better for them to just fly from Rome into Paris, saves time and is cheaper, but my parents feel that this may be the one time they get to Europe in their life-they do not have large incomes, and are geting older-dad is almost 70 and mom late 50's-so they want to see as much as they can and get the most from their money. It is a dream trip for them, I want this to be perfect for them-I worry they might be rushing things, I am also worried that with 1.5 weeks to go, we are cutting it close here for reservartions, Please Help!

Help me, Help them, I have never been to Europe and

With leaving in only 1 week, I would take this strategy... book hotel rooms now, and wait and buy train tickets at the train station when they are in Europe.

The first day really doesn't count what with arriving the airport, etc. so let's say they have 10 days on the ground (20th thru 30th).

That is not enough time for Rome, Florence, Venice, Lucerne, Paris, and London in my opinion.

I would suggest 3 days in Rome, then train to *either* Florence or Venice (pick one, not both). And spend 3 days in that city.

I don't think passing thru Florence without spending the night between Rome and Venice is a practical plan. Because with the long train rides you'd barely allow yourself a few hours. Unless they have one particular thing they want to see there that is worth the extra effort and expense.

I enjoyed the overnight train between Venice and Paris. Realize it is approx. the cost of a train ticket plus a hotel room, if you book a sleeper cabin (which I would recommend). Or you could fly.

So then they have 4 days in Paris at the end of the trip. I think that's perfect!

In summary, I think they are OK if you ASAP book hotels (centrally located):
3 nights Rome
3 nights Venice
4 nights Paris

Oops, guess that should be 4 nights Rome for the hotel, as they do need to sleep that first day even if we didn't count it out for sight-seeing!

You've got some tough problems.

You should take them to a travel agent.

Some information in the meantime your folks should know:

It is very, very hot in Italy. They need hotels with air conditioning.

They probably also need to limit how much they walk in the heat, so tour buses might be a good option for them.

Venice has a lot of small bridges that can make it hard for older people to do a lot of touring of foot. The only other choice is very expensive gondola rides.

My advice would be for your parents to take a small hit on rebooking their tickets for a later date when they have had a chance to do more research on the places they want to go, probably with the help of a travel agent.

If your parents have done a lot of traveling in other places and just not Europe, then they will be fine...they will be able to find something with AC (it is stupefyingly hot in Rome)even if its not great if they book right away with your help and one of the last-minute booking services.

If, however, they are the babes-in-the-woods travel-wise you are sort of suggesting, I agree: they should unbook those flights and start all over.

What you outline (no research, no bookings,vague plans, neophyte travelers with 'age' issues and HUGE expectations for way too many destinations!!!!) sounds like a prescription for disaster.

So they have 10 nights in Europe. That would barely enough time to see some of Rome, Florence and Venice.

You need at least 3 nights in Rome, 1 night in Florence, 2 nights in Venice and then take the night train to Paris on the 3rd night. That would give you 3 nights in Paris.

I would not take a day trip to London when there is so much to see and do in Paris and they only have 3 days there.

Your Mom's plan is way too much for the short time they have. 10 days is really not enough time to do Rome, Florence and Venice justice, let along add Paris and London.
It takes time to travel - getting to the airport, to the train station, getting to your hotel. There won't be time to see anything.

I book my train tickets with www.raileurope.com I find that the easiest for me to use. I only booked our overnight train ticket. The other tickets you can either buy before you leave or you can buy at the station.

If she decides to go to London on the Eurostar - it would be best to do it as a day trip with the small amount of time they have. I found the cheapest tickets at www.eurostar.com when we went via Eurostar. Think it would be at least close to $200 per person round trip.

If you cut back and follow my suggestions they won't be rushing.

I've been to Venice twice in August. Yes it was hot but I still had a lovely trip. I'd be more worried about finding hotel reservations at this late date.

It's a long shot, but contact www.lacalcina.com it's a wonderful 3-star hotel in Venice that I highly recommend.

I don't see why call in a travel agent at the last minute? They have plane ticket. All they need is the hotel reservations, and to streamline the plan (skip Florence, Lucerene, London - keep Rome, Venice, Paris).

After reading other postings, I think I agree that trying to get a later date for the travel would be the best.

The weather would be better and it would give your parents time to get more of a feel timewise, expensewise etc for this trip. They are going into it blind - at least it seems that way to me.

And if they do go now, think like Suze said would be best - keep it to Rome, Venice and Paris. It isn't what your Mom wants but take it from those that have traveled a lot - unless you have someone with you that has been there before and done that, it can be frustrating trying to do too much.

It's 90 minutes from Rome to Florence and another 2.5 to 3 hours to Venice. They should arrive at Santa Lucia station.

If they're only doing a day trip to Florence they should have their day planned out (with maps) so they don't spend it wandering around getting lost and seeing very little. I wouldn't recommend Florence for a day only since they'll be arriving in Venice late in the day, will probably be tired and confused trying to find their hotel. It's very easy to get lost in Venice.

I also think a day trip to London would be way too much. They only have 10 days and the first day they will be jet lagged and tired. With getting to the hotel and checking in they will have about 1/2 to sightsee.

Here's how things lay out with the proposed plan:

Aug 20 - arrive Rome
Aug 21 - Rome
Aug 22 - train to Florence, sightsee Florence and then train to Venice
Aug 23 - Venice
Aug 24 - train to Lucern (7 hours)
Aug 25 - Lucern
Aug 26 - train to Paris (6 to 8 hours)
Aug 27 - Paris
Aug 28 - London
Aug 29 - Paris
Aug 30 - fly home

If this is their dream trip they will come home seeing very little in each place and perhaps be disappointed. I would be frustrated only have 1 day in London and Rome.

If they do this trip they should fly from Lucerne to London and then train to Paris. This will save some time.

This may be one of those rare times when a bus tour IS in order.

Have you considered contacting one of the big tour companies that operate in Europe to see if there are any drop-outs from an existing group that your parents could hook up with?

I know they usually include the air-fare but it might be worth a try...having done some guiding of tours (though for teens, not seniors) I know that there are sometimes last-minute arrangements to be made.

Is there a place to check luggage at the Florence train station? Seems like you'd need that to make the 1/2 day stop in Florence work.

The way Adrienne lays out your original proposed plan, illustrates why it is not a very good idea. They are spending ALL their time going place to place, with very little time actualy BEING anywhere.

Yes, Florence SMN train station has a left luggage deposit.

>>I don't see why call in a travel agent at the last minute?<<

Well, it might be more efficient than contacting La Calcina, which even if they have rooms, La Calcina won't guarantee them until they've been mailed a certified check. The OP's parents don't have time for anything like that.

A travel agent could book their train tickets, their air-conditioned hotels, arrange for a car service for them when they need one, or get them on a plane when it makes sense instead of a train. Or put them on a scenic train.

Or show them how easy it is to rebook the tickets for a later date, or change the airports to get them into a more realistic itinerary.

Thanks for your suggestions everybody, there is no going back, mother is set on going on this trip-but you are all right it is way too much. I was hoping she would stick to just Rome and Paris but if she wants to "see more" then I love Suze's suggestion of having them spend a few night's in Venice.

I hope this gives them enough time and they can enjoy it-I really want them to be happy with their trip. They have been talking about going for the past year, then they thought they would wait until next spring, so I wasnt sure what they were doing until they got the tickets. But hopefully it will all work out. Keep the suggestions coming!

If they are trying to get the most for their money this is not the way to do it.

Any hotels they get at this incredibly late date will be either cheap and so awful no one else wnats them - or VERY expensive (will they pay $600 per night for a room with AC?).

Separately they are going at an incredibly hot, humid and crowded time of year.

Third, they are trying to cover 3 times as many places as they actually can in so very few days.

If they have 10 nights on the ground, landing Rome and leaving Paris they should spend half in each place and fly in between. The places you have listed would take at least 4/5 weeks to cover in any sensible way.

Agree they should rebook for later in the year (Oct weather can be beautiful - and then spend some time actually figuring out a reasonable itinerary (2 - possibly 3 cities - NO MORE), getting decent hotels without spending the earth - and enjoying themselves - rather than walking into tourist hell.

Believe me - from someone who has been to europe 70+ times - they do dno want to do this trip as it stands. If you father is nearly 70 he won;t even last through it - unless he has incredible stamina.

Your parents are setting themselves up for a miserable trip.

I understand that some people think they will never do this again, and that may be true for them. Which is why this is such a bad idea and potentially a disaster. They have no plans at all, have never traveled to Europe, want a dream trip of a lifetime -- and have no idea how to do things.

You can rebook plane tickets for $100-175 or so, I believe. That is a terrible time weather-wise to go, and others things are not optimal, either (some things closed, which just generally affects the atmosphere of the city, locals on vacation, etc.). For example, they wouldn't need air conditioning if they went at a different time.

Besides, the fact that this is a trip of a lifetime in their eyes, they've dreamt of it, want some super trip and spent a lot for airfare -- and then are limiting the entire trip to 10 days???!!! This makes no sense at all, I imagine your father is at least retired so time off isn't a problem, and if your mother works, I would expect she could at least have a couple weeks saved up. They do have the desire to see a lot, that's a good thing, but why did they book tickets for only 10 days?

I think maybe they do need a travel agent.

Is there absolutely no way you can convince your parents to rebook for a later date? It's rather sad to see what they have planned -- personally, I think it would be demanding for someone half their age, let alone not really getting to experience any of the places they are planning to visit.

It might be a dream -- a very, very bad one.

I'm not a "mega-experienced" traveller -- only three trips to Europe so far, but we knew from the first trip that with 10-12 days, we could only do two cities maximum. And that's how we've done it.

They will be on planes or trains for a large part of their trip.

And with only a week and a half to actually make reservations, they pretty much start out at a disadvantage.

If they absolutely insist on going and following this schedule, the trip may be memorable ... in a very bad way.

Good luck to you and good luck to them.


SoundDiva

Hi mia; I think at this late date, the suggestion of a tour is a good one. Everything would be done for you. Consider cheapertravel.com The company is named Pavlus and they deal in many of the major tour companies. You could call them and see what they have available. They are the leading seller of many of these companies and are able to offer discounts.GOOD LUCK Iris

I know, I was concerned with August for those reasons also, especially since my dad is asthmatic,however, my mom runs a home daycare so she needs to coordinate her holidays with the kids parents. Once all the parents got their dates coordinated she booked her trip.

Also they do not have a large budget for this which is why they did not go to the travel agent-they just can't spend 3000/person on a tour. Trust me if I could, I would have just paid for them to go on a tour. They got their airfare pretty cheap for under 2000 roundway for both of them taxes in. Mom is hoping to spend 1200 on hotels-to bring them up to 3200. I htink this figure will be higher overall their budget is like 3500 plus the cost of food and expenses, entrance fees etc.

My biggest worry for them is getting decent hotels reserved at decent prices at this late date.

I would drop *everything else* in the planning process and see if you can find --- 4 nights Rome, 3 nights Venice & 4 nights Paris... ASAP.

IF you find hotels they can afford in a central location (this is especially important when you haven't planned in advance for sight-seeing) then I firmly believe they can work out the rest after arrival in Europe.

There are tourist information booths at most train stations, you can purchase tickets for those popular train routes simply a day or so in advance, hotel front desks can assist you to arrange a 1/2 day city tour, you can read a guidebook on the plane ride over, etc. etc.

I'm telling you... HOTELS is where it's at!

Then on to packing light (next important lesson when you are moving around a lot).

This just doesn't sound plausible.

This is your parents' dream trip, they've been thinking about it for a year.

And yet, 1 week before they depart, they have no clue whatsoever.

When did they buy their plane tickets? What have they been doing between then and now?

You mentioned $1200 budget for hotel. This is just <b>unrealistic</b>. At the current exchange rate, that comes out to &euro;80 per night for 10 nights.

They are visiting the most expensive cities in Europe, and for &euro;80/night, they'll either end up in hotels far away from the center, or in some fleabag 1* hotels that nobody wants to stay at. And forget Venice.

Again, please take this advice seriously - ask them to reschedule this trip until Oct/Nov.

Hi mia; If it's hotels as Suze suggests, try booking.com All kinds of hotels available at many different prices. ENJOY Iris P.S. You could also go to tripadvisor.com and go to each city. They then allow you to insert dates and what you want to pay. You may be able to stay with-in your budget that way.

If it is hostels then www.hostels.com has a good search engine and booking tool. I agree, get centrally located hostels in max. three cities so you have nights covered to sleep and make other arrangements as you go.

I had missed that budget amount. Ouch. Do they understand the type of hotel they will be able to book at the last minute for 80 euro?

Mia; Go to tripadvisor.com You can do this trip, but you will have to set your sights higher. I think you can do hotels for $1500. When I checked Rome on tripadvisor, it brought up the number 5 rated hotel in Rome at 297 euros for three nights. [the site that tripadvisor then used, was 'booking.com'] Don't get discouraged--you can do this. Most important thing is location for your folks. Once you decide on a hotel, post it and go on to the next city. In the mean time people will help you decide on location, good or bad on your first Irisselection.

Mia; In Venice, on trip advisor, the 29th rated hotel out of 387. The Villa Igea at 115euro, with breakfast. Postings on tripadvisor site were very good. Iris

Sorry to sound like a negative Nancy but if these people can't handle the logistics of their own itinerary, how on earth will they cope once they arrive on foreign soil? Are they aware of the value of the US dollar vs the euro? Have they budgeted for food and other incidentals? What about trip insurance?

I don't believe these folks are suited for independent travel. They'd be better off on an escorted coach tour.

I just opened hotels.com, and plugged in Venice and Roma and $130 budget. Venice is much harder than Rome, but there is one fairly well-reviewed hotel listed. Rome has quite a few (the Melia roma Aurelia Antica, for example, rated 4.2 on hotels.com (39 reviews) at $88 a night (no kidding).

I also thought this would be impossible, and still think this couple is more suited to a tour than to independent travel, but I also think now that they can make their budget if their expectations aren't &quot;the Ritz&quot;.

Go to venere.com, plug in the cities and dates and see what's available.

Definitely limit this to 2 or 3 cities. If they can make it just paris and rome, they can certainly do some day trips if they want to see otehr places. Too much travelling around wastes valuable time between the actual transportation and re-settling into hotels.

They should also consider flying between the 2 countries once they settle on itinerary.

Also keep in mind that you should really find hotels with a/c.

iris1745 - I know you mean well, but the hotels you've listed... They are 100-115 euros/night. Per the OP, their hotel budget is USD1200 for 10 nights. Again, that equals to <b>&euro; 80</b> per night.

Back to the OP, you wrote:

<i>They got their airfare pretty cheap for under 2000 roundway for both of them taxes in. Mom is hoping to spend 1200 on hotels-to bring them up to 3200. &lt;snip&gt; ... their budget is like 3500 plus the cost of food and expenses, entrance fees</i>

Does this $3500 include transportation? Have you factored in the cost of train tickets for them to travel from Rome via Florence/Venice all the way to Paris???

dmlove - The Meli&aacute; Roma Aurelia Antica hotel is located miles outside of the city of Rome.

Like I said earlier, for &euro;80/night, they'll either end up in hotels far away from the center, or in some fleabag 1* hotels that nobody wants to stay at.

At least it has air conditioning! :)

(I personally think it is always worth it to spend a little more to stay in the center of town, but if budget is more important than time, and it's on a a decent public transportation line, maybe it's not such a bad idea).

Mia: I am SERIOUSLY concerned here. I was worried when I read &quot;We have still not booked hotels...&quot; for an August holiday, and then when I read the budget, I just inhaled. I'm still holding my breath.

Serious question--not mean, not trying to be humerous, not uncharitable, not unkind in ANY way--have you OR your parents considered the exchange rate? It's bad. I mean REALLY BAD. And no country is cheap right now. A 1200 budget for two in Euros for ten days of lodging and transportation (we're not counting food!) would have been a stretch.

I agree with all who say that you have two basic choices:

1) they hook up with some Priceline sort of tour offering or
2) rebook at a time when they have figured out how to do what they need to do financially.

I DO believe they can travel at a low cost. I do not believe that at their ages they can do so &quot;on the fly.&quot;

&gt;&gt;The Meli&aacute; Roma Aurelia Antica hotel is located miles outside of the city of Rome.&lt;&lt;

Yes, but all roads lead to Roma and there is probably a bus.

Like the rest of you, I fear there won't be a happy ending to this story -- unless we hear the tickets are being rebooked for Christmas break -- but I suspect the traveler's have a different idea of seeing the sights than the rest of us might.

Open air tour bus around Rome. Maybe seeing the Sistine chapel. Then on to Venice. A trip down the Grand Canal. Staying in Mestre will be fine for that.

Dinner by the lake in Lucerne?

Off to Paris to see the Eiffel Tower. Why not stay in La Defense? (Rates should be quite low there.)

One thing they can't afford is London, and I wouldn't recommend stopping Firenze and dealing with left luggage in the heat, unless it's to spend the night.

The real worries in my mind are:

Obtaining air conditioned hotel rooms and air-conditioned trains.

How about you talk to your parents and they decide exactly what cities they will actually plan to go to.
Then let everyone on this posting know the itinerary and we can all dig in and try to find hotels at prices they can afford. B&amp;bs are most often cheaper and nicer.
We stay mostly at b&amp;bs.

Oh and I love Mcdonalds at the bottom of the Spanish steps in Rome. So you don't have to have mega meals - the salads are good.

Another question - this seems to be what your mom wants - what does your dad with asthma think about all of this? Wondering if he is like my husband and would just as soon leave me go with someone else while he stays home and enjoys his peace and quiet. Maybe you need to take mom on this whirlwind. Just trying to be realistic and practical.

I agree that your folks need to get a room toot sweet (thanks Sue Grafton). Call an agent (or AmEx) OR, call an international hotel chain and work with them. They might be able to get some flexibility if they stick with one hotel chain.
When hub and I &quot;did&quot; our first 10 days in Italy, I followed a tour book time table: 4 days Rome, 3 days Florence and 2 days Venice and wished we'd had longer in Venice.
How they are going to get Paris in as well is tough! I'm agreeing with Suze's suggested itinerary and just take a day tour to Florence.
Even if your folks are in tip top health, traveling across time zones is tiring and one eats up time getting from one place to another. I for one would love to know how this all works out!

I really think they should try Suze's itinerary...or 5 days in Rome and 5 days in Paris...that would be ideal.

As for hotels, wow, you are definitely going to have a problem finding something decent for 80 euro a night. I dont know what prices are for Aug but try this:

Paris: http://www.hotel-saintjacques.com/en/confort_en.htm

or www.eurocheapo.com

<i>Oh and I love Mcdonalds at the bottom of the Spanish steps in Rome</i>

Which is, I believe, the biggest McDonald's in the world, and was one featured on a Travel Channel show about unique McDonald's.