help - does family size matter
 

In about two weeks, my family and I are heading out to Europe for the first time as a family. Problem is finding ONE decent and affordable HOTEL ROOM in Paris for myself, wife and three kids aged 6,10 and 12. It appears that we may have exceeded the expected "normal" family size of 1.375 kids per family (or whatever it is these days). Getting two rooms is likely to break our fun, not to mention my wallet. I don't want to leave a child behind (no pun intended; even though one of my sons is tickled by a "home alone" moment). Please help.

Our plans include 3 days in paris - then overnight train to Rome- (we are staying in Italy for two weeks with family and friends)- back to Paris on train - stay one night in Paris - and back to Texas.

Another question (of less urgency) is that we are considering a 5-day France-Italy Saver Pass. Are there any unforseen issues if I buy a separate cheaper "Youth Pass" for my 12 year old son, as opposed to buying 2nd class saver pass for all ou us, which forces us to buy three adult passes?

Your advice is greatley appreciated.

TR14 in Texas.

TR14, you are one laid back traveler. In Europe, it is often hard to find a room that can even fit a family of four.

Before I ever consider booking a flight anywhere, I make sure I have found a nice place to accomodate our family of 5. Even in the US, it is difficult to find one room that can accomodate the five of us! (Some of the "all suites" hotels can still only accomodate 4 per room becuase they have a king-sized bed and a sofa sleeper.) I almost always rent apartments when traveling with my family.

Well - I don't understand the need to pack 5 people in one room with one bath. And any room that accommmodated 5 would certainly cost a lot more than a double room.

Have you tried looking for a double and connecting triple for the kids - it seems much more sensible to have 2 baths - and I can't imagine it would cost that much more than one gigantic room (even if you could find one).

I have to agree with missypie. Our family of four just returned from our European trip. I originally started to look at hotels, but once I found I may need two rooms, I nixed that idea and went with apts. We stayed in apts in Paris and in Lisbon, and in a cottage in England.

There are many choices out there, and people are always willing to offer places that they have personally stayed at. The apt we stayed at in Paris was a little cramped for the 4 of us and would definitely not fit your bill with 5 of you. But there are out there!

Even if you can find one big room somewhere, two rooms will likely be cheaper and certainly more readily available at an affordable hotel.

Are you planning to use the rail passes to get around once you are in Italy?

Have you input the proposed itinerary at www.railsaver.com to check to see if point-to-point tickets might be more economical?

I assume you've ruled out the possibility of budget flights Paris-Rome-Paris and at this late date I suspect rail offers a cheaper means of transport.

I travel with my 4 children, now aged 13-16. I have always had to rent an apartment or book 2 rooms.

You should be able to rent an apartment for 3 days, a search here or on google will bring up lots of apartment rental companies, but with only 'about two weeks' to go, you are indeed cutting it VERY close to find anything halfway decent, and all the best apartments with air conditioning (which you will need in Paris this summer), at a reasonable price will be booked. Although there is always the possibility you may get lucky with a cancellation...

I stayed last summer at Hotel Monge -triple and twin room, with aircon, for 110 euros per room per night - but I booked 2 months ahead and the rooms were on different floors.

You could try these 2 rental agencies..

www.parisaddress.com

http://www.beau-paris.com/en_main_choice.htm

Good Luck!

In Paris last month, my family of five booked accomodations in a B&B...that is, a private home that accepts short-term boarders...through an agency in Paris. It worked out rather well, and was considerably less expensive than a hotel. You might want to look into it. Feel free to contact me offline if you have any questions about it.

www.bed-and-breakfast-in-paris.com

JJ

Thank you all for your advice. Per your suggestions, I will look into both apartments or B&B accomodations. Juila_t and JeffreyJ - thanks for the links...keep them coming.

Dukey - yes, we do plan to use the rail passes in Italy (Florence 2-3 nights, and perhapsps a day trip to Venice from there).

Now I feel pressed to find something quick. I hate staying on line for more than few minutes. Dear wife thinks all is set and rosy!!

Thanks again.

TR14.

Am I the only one who thinks it's a bit odd to expect to house five people in a room that normally would be meant for two, or expect that you can house five people for the same price as two? It seems that if two people rented a room in a hotel for $100, the logical thing would be to get two rooms for a total of $200 and be thankful that one person is staying for free. I know they used to say "two can travel as cheaply as one" but even that isn't true. I certainly wouldn't think that 5 can travel as cheaply as 2.

Lately we have been having a number of questions about fitting 5 (or more) to a room .. also people who think their 21 yr olds qualify as "kids", as in kids stay free or whatever. Amazing to me !!!

No, Neopolitan you are not the only one who thinks it odd. I can't count the number of times I've suggested getting 2 rooms to people with this question or looking into apartments. I cannot even imagine wanting to cram 5 people into one hotel room, nor do I even want to think about bathroom time. I understand travel is expensive, but this whole thing about getting the entire family in one room boggles my mind.

My friend just stayed at Hotel Monge earlier this month (as Julia mentions)a recommendation passed on to her by me from here on Fodors. She liked it very much.

www.hotelmonge.com
Hôtel Résidence Monge
55, rue Monge 75005 Paris
Subway: Place Monge
Tel: + 33 1 43 26 87 90
Fax: + 33 1 43 54 47 25

Neopolitan says :

"Am I the only one who thinks it's a bit odd to expect to house five people in a room that normally would be meant for two, or expect that you can house five people for the same price as two?"

Just to set the record, I was not expecting a room for 5 for the price of "normal room for two". My question and frustration was the difficulty of finding a single large room designed for a family of 5 (which to me should not be considered abnormnal)

With the current young age of my kids, two separate rooms on different floors does not sound good to me. In my opinion, part of the fun and memory is to see the kids pass out (after a long day in a new land) one by one where ever they are in the room, with them knowing that Mom and Dad are close by in the room.

I think apratment or B&B suggestions were excellent, assuming reasoinable price.

It is difficult outside of North America and Australia/NZ to find hotel rooms that will fit four, much less 5 people. We often stay in a apartment for four and when we stay in a hotel we can sometimes find a quad but sometimes have to get two rooms. When we stay in B&B's we always get two rooms for four. I do not think we have ever stayed in a hotel quad in Europe that would fit five. Sometimes large American chain hotels (Marriot/ Sheraton etc)will have rooms with two queens but they do not fit five and they tend to be on the expensive side. Paris is a large city and there may be a hotel with a room to fit five but I suspect such hotels will give you a connected twin and triple.
Apartments with two bedrooms and a sleeper sofa would work for you but you will be limited by the fact that apartments often (but not always) rent by the week and availability in August may be quite limited. I do not know what affordable means to you but your best bet at this late date may be to look for two interconnecting rooms in an inexpensive hotel.

Check the Paris section at this site. Some only have a 3 day minimum stay & prices are quoted in dollars. I've used them a lot for London:

http://www.londonguestsuites.com/

You might look into the Novotel chain, which has family rooms that fit 3 quite nicely; an adjacent or adjoing room would hold the two older children, with the youngest staying in the room with the parents.

TR14, while it is late in the day to have a huge selection of apts, I have no doubt that they are out there.

And don't get discouraged by a site that states it will only rent by the week. We were in Paris for only 5 nights. I just emailed the owner with my dates and asked if he would be willing to rent the apt out for only 5 nights, and he did.

search on vrbo (vacation rentals by owner). Also, to narrow your search, be specific in which areas you are willing to stay in-i.e., 7th, 14th,?
And definitely consider looking for one with a/c and a lift (unless you want the work-out of stairs).

I completely understand where you are coming from in regards to wanting the kids close by.That was one of my main reasons for going with apts. In fact, just to give you an example of my savings; we stayed 9 nights in a cottage in England for 400gbp. We then stayed 2 nights in London (in a Holiday Inn) at 196 gbp total (both nights). On our last night, we stayed at the Sheraton Skyline @ Heathrow. One night @ 129 gbp. SEE THE SAVINGS!

Don't give up. We had pretty good luck all over Great Britain with two adults and three teens in various bed and breakfasts. Sometimes we had to get two rooms, and other times they had family rooms available. I would think it might be easier to get a B&B for three days than an apartment. Good luck!

You sound like us!!! We are traveling to England in 6 weeks with a 7, 8, and 11 year old....I struggled for 6 months to find the best rates since NO one has room for five in one room (well, okay, Hilton Metropole at the rate of 195pounds per night) I checked over 100 flats/VRBO/B&B's but it all came out to be about $400 a night...2 rooms or no. So I took the plunge and tried www.priceline.com I never thought I'd do that but budgets do strange things to creatures of habit...so I stepped out of the box and for 3 nights tried every angle on testing the system...on the 3rd night I got 2 rooms at $84 each!!! I'm paying $170 (VAT included) per night for 2 rooms! :) YAHOO!!! That's a huge thankyou from me to the folks at www.biddingfortravel.com and priceline...so give it a shot...you might be rewarded with some great rates! :)

Tara

O find it really annoying when people who are single or travel as couples get patonizing about families who want to stay together without being overly penalized with multiple rooms. I have posted before about the European phenomemeon of letting most rooms with two single beds to accomodate single travelers without regard to families. Most families are willing to pay for extra people/beds above the double rate but it makes it prohibitive when forces to always rent two rooms. We all know that as families there are occasions when we accomodate family and have larger bathroom loads than we we otherwise like. People live like this everyday out of necessity so it gauls me when sactimonious folk who are fortunate enough to be able to travel make judgements about family when they are traveling solo or as a couple.

I understand your point Millie, but it's rather nice that in Europe one can rent a room for a single which is something hotels in the US don't do except for full double rate. So it's a double-edged sword.
But I certainly understand the OP's predicament.

TR14,
Some inexpensive (for Paris and Rome), well located, 2 BR apts.

Paris:
http://www.vrbo.com/15502
http://www.rentalfrance.com/

Rome:
http://www.sleepinitaly.com/files/apt_vicolocinque.html
http://residenzagiubbonari.com/home.html (the RED apt)

YOu might try CITADINES. They have apartment style hotel rooms in Paris - some two bedrooms.

http://www.citadines.com/serviced_ap...otel_paris.htm

One point that people were trying to make that seemed to get missed, was that two rooms (a double plus a triple) are sometimes priced more economoical that a single room for 5 people.

When our family of four traveled to Europe, I did not find that two rooms would be less expensive than one quad room. I hoped it would be the case, but I never found it.
We liked the Hotel de la Bourdonnais in Paris, for their relatively good-sized quad 'family' room. You could see if they have an even larger suite. It was good-priced, well-located in the seventh, with a view of the Eiffel Tower from our room (503). Very clean, and nice older building. A market next door was very convenient with the kids, also close to Rue Cler for fresh fruit, etc.

Nothing odd about this request at all - especially when one considers the ages of the children, and 2 rooms would probably end up actually costing more than a family room or apt.

I think Beatchick might have started a thread about family rooms? I know she put together a great one about triple rooms in Paris. If I can find it I'll post the link here

Try this http://www.arts-residence-paris.com , have not stayed here, but they have family apartments, summer specials and is in great area.

BTW, this thread title is really funny, I appreciate the OP's effort to entertain.

It sounds like the answer is, Yes, size *does* matter.

I like the homelidays.com website for apartment rental because it allows you to sarch by date as well as by arrondissement for available apartments.

This one looks good for a family of five, for instance - it's in a great area and it has availability for the time period you're looking at.

http://www.homelidays.com/EN-Holiday...ROMSEARCH=TRUE

I can't give you a recommendation based on personal knowledge because I stayed in a small studio.

Lots of choices though. Good luck

Fishee I agree - the OP has a good sense of humor (i.e. the thread title) and is probably a traveler who really enjoys the whole experience and can roll with the punches. I like that.

You don't give your exact dates, but here are some apartments available in Paris during August from Vacation in Paris:
http://www.vacationinparis.com/infop/specials.htm

We have rented from them for our family of four, and were very pleased. They do not require a full week. You might give them a call (it's a U.S. company based on the east coast).

I don't think an apt. or two rooms would likely be cheaper than a room for five, in theory. I don't think two doubles would be cheaper than a quad, either, and that's easier to find. There are economies of scale for hotels, and it is cheaper to have one big room than separate ones, most of the time.

It isn't true that most hotels in Europe have rooms with two single beds to be set up for single travelers. I don't know why Millie thinks that most European hotels only have single beds in the rooms. Besides, single travelers don't want a room with two single beds in it -- they would want a room with a double bed. I travel solo a lot and wouldn't ever want a room with twin beds as it takes up more room space and isn't needed. If I pay the rate of a double room (which I usually do) or even just slightly less than a couple would in a double, which is often the case of single rooms, I want a nice comfortable bed and that means a double.

However, while I think a single room for 5 should be cheaper than two rooms, the problem is that there just aren't very many hotel rooms for five people, at least not in Paris. So you are going after something that barely exists, and are limited to only a couple rates because of that. You could probably find two cheaper rooms in a cheaper hotel.

Maybe you can find a cheap apt. for a cheaper rate (very unlikely, I think -- even apts for five are not common, but for only three nights, there are very limited places that will rent to you), but Citadines isn't very cheap, so I'm not sure that will work in terms of budget. They will rent for only 3 days, so that's an asset. They also aren't usually set up for groups of 5, although they have some. For example, their Bastille Nation location, which is not one of their top properties, charges 260 euro a night for their 6-person apt in off-season. YOu can obviously get two hotel rooms cheaper than that.

The two hotels I know in Paris with rooms for five are the Hotel Marignan in the Latin Qtr, and the Hotel des Grandes Ecoles. I know the Marignan has them, they are listed on their website with rates -- 140 euro midseason with WC and shower. IF you are willing to get a room only with WC, it is only 115 euro for the five-person room. There is no elevator, and it's basic, but should be adequate, and they have a laundry, I think. www.hotel-marignan.com

The other is Hotel des Grandes Ecoles www hotel-grandes-ecoles.com I have no personal knowledge of that and their website doesn't mention it at all--it says maybe a quad if you are lucky (would be over 150 euro, I'd say from the other rates-- but there was a post on Fodors by someone who claimed he stayed in it and that it had two double beds and one twin.

YOu can find some prior threads on this topic by a search including the word Marignan which is the easiest way to narrow it down. put in "paris and hotel and marginan" in the search box, without quotes. There is a very expensive Hotel Marignan in Paris on the Right Bank, but the above URL is the cheap one. That is an excellent location, anyway.

When travelling with our [2] kids in France, we were looked at sideways because we wanted 2 separate rooms, albeit adjoining if possible, rather than a large family room.
I think that your main problem is likely to be shortness of time to book rather than lack of suitable options.
So stop reading and get booking!
and have a great time.

The Hôtel Mansart in Paris, just off the Place Vendôme, as adjoining rooms. In August the prices should drop, although you do need to get a reservation ASAP. You could try
lastminute.com.

annhig, Underhill - They need Connecting rooms, not adjoining rooms. Adjoining rooms could be next door, or down the hall, or across the hall, and don't necessarily have a door between the rooms. Connecting rooms are next door to each other with a door between. Can be a huge difference between the two.
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Sorry--I think of adjoining and connecting as being the same thing. Adjacent would be next door.

Adjoin and connect are synonyms.

I do get the part about the two rooms sharing a door.

I work with the same numbers (two adults plus 14-16-24), and unless we can stay one place for a week or so, apartments are scarce as hens' teeth.

So we go with whatever value we can find on two rooms, and don't worry about their proximity. In Rotterdam, Mme. R and I were by the RR station and the boys were at the city center, a mile away.

OK, splitting hairs here, but I think the only difference between adjoining and connecting is that adjoining does not necessarily have a door between them. But by definition adjoining means they "adjoin" or "touch" each other, having a common wall. California and Nevada are adjoining states. California and Utah are not. Two rooms separated by a corridor or other rooms would not be "adjoining".
Robespierre, I like your idea -- ship the kids off to another part of town -- but kind of hard to do with 6 to 12 year olds!

Neopolitan - we both realize the actual definition of adjoining, but apparently many hotels don't, because unless you specify connecting, your rooms may in fact be down the hall from each other.
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