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Obviously, Kerouac has never repeated himself. It is only a fault on these boards, for those people do not like. And please do not recommend the same sites or restaurants again for that would be---repeating yourself.
Actually I did some research before I posted the first time and could not find much. When I googled 'military parades democracies' China kept appearing. But I will let Kerouac fight with google about that the problem with that algorithm. But I am happy to say, you can add Pakistan to that list. Bastille Day was a display of armaments, just like North Korea and China, was that true for the Belgians? I was at an event honoring the Belgians who died in WWI and it was just that, an event honored the fallen. Not an opportunity to parade deadly toys. Even we the militaristic Americans, do no go for such guache displays of The ball is in your court Kerouac. Democracies two Dictatorships at least four,and oh yes, Spain under Franco, but I have not seen it since his death. Please cite the other democracies that display weaponry as part of a celebration. Because I am ignorant, complete with pictures, as to what constitutes a military display with armaments. I omitted the second part of my thoughts which I will include now, the military parades in France are symbolic of a second rate power trying to recapture old colonialism. |
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Took me 2 seconds on Google, IMDone. I did not realise that you are disabled.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/C...des_by_country |
I think only the impressive parades have media coverage. Nobody talks about all of the little parades in little countries.
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Of course, you do not look at them, Kerouac, so thank you for bolstering my position.
You should actually take at look what you posted. So thanks for Bolstering my position. For example, the last picture of a US military was under Harry Truman. And the one for the Netherlands show some veteran in a business suit. And there was one of Japan of someone in a jeep And the list did also include missiles from Iran, tanks from Kuwait, and some hot (I mean temperature not sexy) soldiers and armaments from Oman. End of my discussion on this matter. |
Sorry one more comment. Thank you Fra. Fortunately Stan and Ollie military obligation there only was three reels.
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IMDone
I was even present in uniform when my unit paraded on national day in Brussels, in front of the king. People were greeting anyone in uniform, it was quite nice. We love our military. It is not a show of force but of respect. So, yes, our old SP M109 parade before our king, preceded by the 'defense passive', the firemen, some medical guys, and even a small detachment of 'gendarmes à cheval' in their beautiful unforms not unlike those of Napoleonic times. It is all 'bon enfant' (nice) and the kids love it. Nobody would ever have spat on GI's coming back from Vietnam in France. My opinion. |
Quite a good post from Sandralist, I would not have thought of it, but as a tourist in foreign countries I tend to avoid all kind of manifestation/demonstration.
Is manifestation english ? Red Barolo was good and I'm at at home, speaking french at last. |
Christina - why are you jumping down my throat? I did not say tourists are stupid. But a great many tourists do not speak the language, don't have a clue about what's going on and they sure look and act awfully nervous to me whenever there are a lot of police present and streets are barricaded. Of course, since you are well-traveled you would not react the same way. Many people have never been to a foreign country before though and watch way too much CNN.
Sandralist - this image of people scurrying down medieval streets trying to avoid violence associated with protest marches in Paris is inflammatory. I've never seen it happen here. I would be much more worried about disappointed rugby fans pouring out of bars in the medieval lanes around Covent Garden. But I do agree that people visiting a foreign city should know where they are at all times and how to get where they want to go. It would also be a good idea to check the local news to see when and where manifestations will be held - there is always at least a day's advance notice so the police can clear the roads. The information about bus and metro detours is always available on the RATP website. ParisWat - manifestation translates as protest march in English. |
Actually manifestation = demonstration. It is not necessarily a march.
IMDone, I was expecting that reaction since I had already inspected the link and knew it wasn't ideal. But do you really think that the last military parade in the US was under Harry Truman? In my experience, there are dozens of military parades all across the United States every year and relatively big ones at places like West Point or Colorado Springs. I love your selective vision of the photos you inspected. It is symbolic of exactly what people like Donald Trump see when they look at the world. |
"Please cite the other democracies that display weaponry as part of a celebration. Because I am ignorant, complete with pictures, as to what constitutes a military display with armaments. "-IMDoneHere
I will cite the USA as one. After all, is an airshow not a display of weaponry? What about the army paratroopers on the 4th of July? OK, they're called the Flying Knights or something like that, but still... That said, I see nothing wrong with it. |
We are talking tanks, armed vehicles and many armed soldiers parading down streets. The Blue Angels or a flyover is not there to intimidate or show military strength.
Even our Veteran Day celebrations or on our Presidential Inauguration Day have not shown military strength in the longest time. A flyover or precision flying, at least to me, is not a show of military strength. And if you think that one paratrooper flying into a football stadium is a show of strength, than you are easily frightened or impressed. |
Never seen displays of military anywhere in the U.S. Except at military installations. I live in DC and nary a tank, armed soldiers have I seen.
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Perhaps it is just a case of countries that are proud of their military personnel versus countries that are somewhat embarrassed by them. In Paris on the 14th of July, the most applauded military unit is the Paris fire brigade, which is part of the military even though that it not the case in the other cities of France. We are extremely proud of them and like to see them. If it reminds you of North Korea, perhaps you should tell us more about your adventures there.
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I still find it shocking in London to see armed (two handed jobs) police at special places, still having refused to be "stopped and searched" a couple of years ago I feel it is possible to discuss stuff with the boys in blue.
Saw not a single gun in France or Spain last fortnight. |
>>> this image of people scurrying down medieval streets trying to avoid violence associated with protest marches in Paris is inflammatory.<<<
Manouche, get a grip on reality. First of all, I did not single out Paris for this kind of risk. I started out by mentioning Belgium, and talked about Europe. It exists in Rome and other Italian cities. Friends were once caught up in a street demonstration in Torino that turned into a foot race between police and demonstrators and found themselves pressed into a doorway on a narrow alleyway, and understandably fearing for their safety. Many of posts are here are ridiculously polyannish. There are machine-gun bearing people in the Jewish neighborhoods of Paris because professional terror fighters think it's necessary due to the higher risk of these places being targets for terrorism. Nobody is going waste money putting boots on the ground 24/7 in an area that is low risk. I find it equally polyannish to read posts from people who live in a country where most people will not walk any distance alone after 10pm and think twice about letting their kids go to movies due to gunfire to be saying "nothing going on here." >>>Never seen displays of military anywhere in the U.S. Except at military installations.<<< Military personnel in camouflage have been patrolling Pennsylvania Station in NYC, bearing large automatic weapons, ever since 9/11. I am in Grand Central Station less often, but would not be surprised at all to see them there, or near the Staten Island Ferry, the UN, etc. It Italy, heavily armed carabinieri are in the main airports, very visibly, and sometimes will turn up in the major train stations as well -- not to mention the armored vehicles one occasionally sees parked in front of important monuments like the tower in Pisa or political offices and the Jewish synagogues during times of elevated terror concerns http://www.lanazione.it/polopoly_fs/..._680/image.JPG |
While "machine gun bearing people in the Jewish neighborhoods of Paris" are busy protecting places where absolutely nothing is happening, there are terrorists and other crazy people intent on murdering innocent people boarding Thalys trains...
That's reality for you, Pollyanna. And I can testify that those are automatic rifles, not machine guns. I have been trained to use both. |
Perhaps it is just a case of countries that are proud of their military personnel
________________ I, for one, would be much more impressed if your national holiday honored your writers, artists, and composers. And according to what most tourists who visit France do, so would most of the rest the of world. _________ It is most impressive to know the difference between automatic rifles and machine guns, but herein lies the problem. (See above.) |
I believe you are taking my comment out of context. What I was responding to were posts right before my response which had to do with military shows of strength such as parades with armed military personnel and tanks. Police or even a few military patrolling places does not fall into that same category. I am in Penn Station frequently and know exactly to what you are referring. there are also dogs.
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There is indeed an impressive difference between a machine gun and a semi automatic rifle.
About the same as between a VW golf and a double decker bus. |
We always have our military in our parades.. they look nice in their uniforms, and the kids love seeing the military vehicles... Victoria, B.C. Canada. Its not a show of force.. its one way we honor the men and women who serve and protect our country.. I didn't think it was unique to only France, China and Russia.. what a silly thought.I am not sure why it would bother anyone, one does not have to stay and watch.
Last year we were in Paris for 14th of July.. we chose to avoid parade area because from previous visits I know the Champs would be packed and truthfully I am over parades in general.. however.. we did enjoy the air show type fly overs the military jets did and we were able to see them while in completely other area of Paris. I remember when I landed in Athens in 1985.. I had never before seen a solider walking around openly with an automatic gun, I admit it surprised me.. but no one else seemed alarmed so I accepted it as a difference and that was that.. and have since seen them many times in Paris.. under the Eiffel Tower.. various spots. .they don't freak me out. I have not wandered into a protest as a tourist anywhere.. but I imagine it would depend on protest and the general vibe I got off it.. I don't think I would go out of my way to stay and participate but that's because as a tourist the issue may not concern me( could be like a taxi drivers strike or some such mundane thing) or I may not fully understand issue, or most likely.. I would have better things to do on my holiday like touring about. |
The first time we saw a person with a gun was in a pizza place - an armed policeman just out of Boston 1980 - very scarey for us when our police weren't even armed
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Actually, automatic weapons carried by the police are usually machine pistols using a 9mm pistol cartridge. These have sufficient power for close range but are less likely to cause collateral damage at a distance or through walls.
Assault (automatic) rifles carried by military personnel fire high velocity cartridges in a variety of calibers. They have more power against vehicles but pose a greater danger of collateral damage than a machine pistol. Special police units may be equipped with assault rifles, and special military units may carry machine pistols. Machine guns, as I think manouche has pointed out, are usually much heavier caliber weapons that owing to their weight and recoil, are fired from some kind of mounting, (unless you are Sylvester Stallone). I have only ever seen one actual machine gun set up in Paris, and that was in the Cité Metro station after a couple of train bombings in Spain and France, probably in the late 1990's. I think it was only there because troops were providing security and that's what they had. |
<i>I, for one, would be much more impressed if your national holiday honored your writers, artists, and composers.</i>
That is perhaps the silliest statement that I have read so far. The culture of France is honored in the form of festivals, exhibitions and special days all through the year in every part of France and draws much larger crowds than any military events. It's as though you have never actually visited France, IMDone, if you have missed that little detail. |
Ah yes Kerouac the pride of the French military-Waterloo, Maginot Line, WWII, Dien Bien Phu, and Algeria.
And that is the reason for military parades, to pretend those actions did not exist. And, of course, the French military ability being the butt of countless jokes. Of course my comments are silly. It is called redirection. |
Yes, well you are certainly firing in every direction and making an absolute fool of yourself.
Please continue. |
.... and breath ..... guys
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"French military being the butt of countless jokes"
Those jokes mostly seem to come from some ignorant narrow minded Americans.. and no one likes them anyways... |
"French military being the butt of countless jokes"
Those jokes mostly seem to come from some ignorant narrow minded Americans.. and no one likes them anyways... _____ And there you have it. You just had prod the facade a bit to get the truth. |
Is anybody else reminded of the film "Le Dîner de Cons" with IMDonehere as our guest?
He is certainly jumping through every hoop. |
At least the guest in 'le dîner de cons' was fun.
I actually saw it at the theater, with Jacques Villeret and Claude Brasseur. We couldn't get our breath back... And Brasseur was bad half the time because he couldn't stay serious. Now I've got the music of the boss in my head ... I had a brother at Khe San. Which makes me do the next jump... So only for IMD : Vietnam... what happened there... WW2, when did it start ? 37 in China, 39 in Poland, 40 in France, and when did the great military power join ? Iso what Isolationism ? Bataan ? rings a bell ? Maginot line - do you know it was never taken nor breached ? Panzers went through Belgium. And the maginot line wasn't on this frontier. Waterloo. yes, also Poitiers, Azincourt, Hastings, Alesia too. Algeria - do you mean the part where french tortured Algerians to get info during the battle of Alger ? in the prison of Abu Ghraib, I think. For the others : don't mean to offence no one. Our boys do their job when under whatever uniform. Most - I'd say nearly all of them - quite well. I don't see why it would be bad to praise them. Even when defeated. Waterloo was an exceptionnal battle for example (I live there, so I know a bit about it). Saying the French didn't fight gallantly would remove any pride for the victors (British and Germans, btw) And where were the US at the time ? licking their wounds from a repulsed non provoked attack on Canada ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_1812). And it gives an excuse for yearly reenactment - which makes a great show ! Like in Gettysburgh, I expect. |
Imdonehere.. note "some".. you being one of them apparently.
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Those who have never seen any Bastille Day parades may wish to educate themselves before denouncing it as a symbol of French militarism or nationalism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bastil...parade#History The parade includes delegations from other nations as well, and in 2002 also delegates from the NY Fire Department to honor the victims of 9/11. For me it's a celebration of the Republic and the values it stands for - and will defend, if necessary - and not the promotion of sabor-rattling interventionism. While one may happily disagree on past or current politics, one must not forget that France had been the cornerstone and driving force of post-WWII reconciliation and European unification. |
This year there was an Algerian delegation marching, and a few years ago there were German troops, which was the first time they had marched on the Champs Elysées since... that time. Everybody was pleased to see them return as friends.
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Today we were walking to lunch in the Marais and saw 8 "heavily armed soldiers" marching towards us. But they split up into 3 groups and marched off in different directions. I guess it was shift change time but there were sure a lot of worried looking people while they did it.
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This is one American who takes offense (read that as "pissed off") at the bigoted, thoughtless and uninformed slurs against French military fortitude expressed by some members of this Forum.
I can only speak from my own experience, but I saw the French contingent in action in Korea on more than one occasion when they were in positions near our 1st Marine Division around Heartbreak Ridge and the Punchbowl in 1951. Anyone who would call those brave and determined troops cowardly or ineffective is either a liar or a fool. I did not see it, but their bayonet charges against Chinese troops earlier in the war are legendary. Look at the casualty figures for the one battalion of 3,421 men. They had 287 killed and 1,350 wounded for a total of 1,637 casualties! Almost 50%! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French...on_(Korean_War) |
Thank you nukesafe.. I know many Americans have informed and balanced views.. unfortunately there is a very loud and proud minority of folks who have no problem spewing their lack of knowledge while chest pounding and flag waving.
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I never accused the French of cowardice and I never waved the American flag and pounded my chest. And I ask you to cite those incidents.
I did cite monumental French military failures over the last 200 hundred years. Those failures are undeniable unless you want to cite some revisionist historian. But people read what they want to read. And in response to the OP. According to the American Jewish Congress: In France in 2013: 105 Physical assaults against Jews 423 total anti-Semitic incidents In 2014: 241 Physical assaults against Jews 851 Total anti-Semitic incidents In France Jews comprise 1% of the population but are subject to 51% of the bias crimes. |
Those dubious statistics come from the Crif and what makes them interesting is the fact that it is completely illegal in France to compile any data regarding race or religion, so one really wonders how they dreamed them up. I'm sure you can also supply the number of assaults against Catholics, Muslims and Roma, for example, just so that we can compare.
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Nuke
Thanks for your post. You make yourself too scarce. Coming from a leatherneck, nothing needs to be said no more. I knew you were a gentleman, we can all see you are a honest man, and we know you are a brave man. You are the kind of men I teach my children to respect. We have a helmet of a fallen GI found in the Ardennes at home, and I keep seeing this helmet in all places at home, like he is animated by his own life. As a reminder of what good men (good US ones) did for us. (But I also teach my daughters not to believe eveything US citizens say, some are so blatantly arrogant and self centered....) :-) |
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