I think Caroline is right to mention the increased Cynisism. I don't think she was saying that today's measures are wrong.

In the UK , we have had a few "incidents" in recent months that are still awaiting trial or proved to be false leads.

The shooting dead of the Brazilian on the Tube last year (Mistaken identity) and a recent raid in which a man was shot in the chest by police looking for chemical weapons (not found) for a proposed tube attack spring to mind.

A while ago Heathrow was surrounded by the military in tanks (I am not sure what they expected the attackers to arrive in)

To reiterate, I do not think today's actions are over the top. I believe that the actions are being taken in good faith for the benefit of travellers. If no evidence of this plot is uncovered, then questions will need to be asked afterwards.

Audere: LOL! Well, I have heard it referred to using the American term for that act.

Instead of complaining we ought to be offering thanks to the British authorities for a job well done in stoping these animals from committing another outrage against civilization.

Well folks - we've arrived in London and they cancelled all domestic flights out of London for today at least. We're happy we landed safely and then heard about the news. A bit of delay at the airport, but safe and sound really....off to enjoy our travels!

willit,
I quite agree that caroline was right to mention the cynical view, as I said- many people feel this way here in NYC- and I sometimes do too. In this case, I feel glad that peole were arrested.
I remember well the tragic shooting of the Brazilian tourist on the TUbe and discussed it at length with friends in London at the time.
I hope my question was not misinterpreted- because I really would like to hear of any ideas she or any other skeptical person mught have on this subject.
Here in NYC we are certainly aware of both sides of this issue and it's a worthy subject of discussion!

Thanks for the link, AR.

" A spokesman for Number 10 said Tony Blair had briefed US President George Bush on the situation during the night.

If Mr Blair is no. 10, who is no. 1?

((I))

BA, Easyjet and other airlines are offering flights on another day or a full refund of fare. Check with the website of your carrier. Baggage allowances are being relaxed to take into account that hand luggage must now be checked in.

Eurostar is beefing up security as well. They've called in lots of extra staff because obviously the trains will be packed with pax whose flights between those destinations were canceled.
My husband is coming back from Brussels today and he's been told to give extra time for checkin/security and he's not going to bring along any "suspect" items, specifically liquids (they haven't yet been banned, but will be scrutinized and he doesn't want to contribute to the long security lines). Hopefully the on-board staff will behave better than they did on Monday evening.

Ira

I believe number 1 is a closely fought battle between GWB and Rupert Murdoch.

I suggest we stop and think a little.

Why is this happening? Answer - cos the govt of the USA went total bananas after 9/11.

That's what their ignorant electorate expected - and that's what their ignora nt govt delivered.

So now we have civil war in Afghanistan and Iraq.

And even more dissafected Muslims. Young ones all over the world who loathe the US.

Of course it goes without saying that one US death is equal to (how many do you think - 10, 20, 50) other deaths) - cf Israel.,

Well done, America

It is a different world now. The consequences are too great to institute increased security measures only when hard evidence of a particular plot is uncovered.

There will be incidents where security forces, in spite of their best efforts, are not able to find hard evidence. And people will eventually die if action isn't taken based on soft/squishy evidence--they will be less likely to die if there are security measures in place at the airport; hopefully it will turn out to be a false alarm most of the time (really hopefully all of the time). But one day, another plot will get by without detection of hard evidence.

It's a matter of risk/reward ratio.

If terrorists would be satisfied with entering aircraft with the intention of giving all the passengers a copy of the Koran and a thorough scolding for their arrogance in not accepting Islam as their religion, there would be a pretty low level of risk in not increasing security measures even without real hard evidence. Unfortunately, we know that's not the case.

Reducing "inconvenience" to travelers at the possible (or even probable) future cost of hundreds or thousands of lives in even one incident is unacceptable. Not being able to read the latest trash pop novel or carry shampoo on an aircraft or having to twiddle one's thumbs for a few hours is a small price to pay.

This isn't a game--Moslem extremists are out to conquer the world for their perverted version of Islam. And they think one of their best weapons is to kill as many non-believers (and fellow Moslems if they happen to be in the wrong place or don't support the terrorist view of the world) as possible by whatever means possible.

It's a social/cultural/religious movement that is sweeping through the Islamic world--equivalent in fervor and a willingness to kill and maim in the name of Allah to the Crusaders willingness to kill and maim in the name of the Prince of Peace.

caroline-edinburgh. In the US a hospital Johnnie is that silly little robe thing that you wear with the entire back open for the world to see your assets. I'm from Boston but now live in Swiss Romande where I have learned the hard way not to say there are preservatives in the food (the French word for condoms!)

fuzzylogic, your post was certainly fuzzy logic -- blame America first? ((b))

I think some of the messages are a bit mixed. The official BAA (British Airports Authority) website says:-

"In brief: Hand baggage restrictions are in place; Passengers will be handsearched; Footwear and all items (including pushchairs and walking aids) must be x-ray screened; Liquids will be removed from the passenger."

The Department of Transport is more detailed:-

" Passengers may take through the airport security search point, in a single (ideally transparent) plastic carrier bag, only the following items. Nothing may be carried in pockets:


Pocket-size wallets and pocket-size purses plus contents (for example money, credit cards, identity cards etc (not handbags)

Travel documents essential for the journey (for example passports and travel tickets)

Prescription medicines and medical items sufficient and essential for the flight (eg, diabetic kit), except in liquid form unless verified as authentic

Spectacles and sunglasses, without cases

Contact lens holders, without bottles of solution

For those travelling with an infant: baby food, milk (the contents of each bottle must be tasted by the accompanying passenger) and sanitary items sufficient and essential for the flight (nappies, wipes, creams and nappy disposal bags)

Female sanitary items sufficient and essential for the flight, if unboxed (eg tampons, pads, towels and wipes)

Tissues (unboxed) and/or handkerchiefs

Keys (but no electrical key fobs). All passengers must be hand searched, and their footwear and all the items they are carrying must be X-ray screened. "

I have a reputation for saying "let's have a barbecue" and 10 minutes later the skies open.

In this instance, we're flying to Bristol tomorrow night to go to a wedding. we're in a hurry when we get there, and we'd organised to hand carry everything (I even bought a kilt tube yesterday).

My husband now wants to know if the words "Let's hand carry everything" will have a similar effect to the barbecue suggestion:(

My husband is flying US to UK today, and was planning to do all as carry on. Who knows if his flight will even fly?

Meanwhile, some members of our group who came to Scotland a week ago are still waiting for their checked luggage. It has apparently been at Gatwick for several days, and was to be flown to Glasgow today. Slim chance of that happening with all of the current chaos.

For the long term, if carry ons are drastically reduced it should help boarding time. Those who travel 'carry on only' really slow down the process. I was on a domestic US plane last week and the first half of the passengers carried on so much that the overhead bins were completely filled before the second half even boarded.

And, Sheila, when we pack kilts, we roll them and pull a leg of pantyhose over the roll. Arrives with pleats perfectly intact.

Hi fuzzylogic,

Aptly named.

((I))

These measures are a major drag when traveling for business. I for one will be very, very nervous if I'll have to check in my laptop and important papers. I've had my share of broken, lost, and stolen checked-in luggage over the years. What are airports and airlines doing to improve luggage handling? This is a very important issue which is hardly ever discussed.

fuzzylogic, well you chose the right name didn´t you. Why is this happening? It´s happening because there are psychopaths out there and psychopaths with a "cause" (IRA, al Quaeda etc) are the most dangerous. Let´s not shift the blame onto America. What we and America did may not have been the best idea since sliced bread, but today is happening because psychopaths wanted to kill. End of story

St. Maria Goretti, what a nightmare! I am praying for the poor souls who have to fly today.

Here is what scares the hell out of me:
Since you can't carry your electronic key fobs with you (which most people have today), and you have to pack those keys in your checked luggage, what happens if the airline loses your luggage? How would you start your car, if you parked it at the airport, when you got home???? This would be an absolute nightmare if you lived far from the airport and you didn't have anyone to get your spare set of keys to you. I just don't want to think about that.

What about food? I can't eat airline food and always bring my own. There is no way I could be on a flight without anything to eat for 9 hours.

I just shudder to think what happens when terrorists start targeting the cruise line industry!

Jesus Loves You

I wonder if the 21 terrorists they caught were the smart ones or the stupid ones. I guess we'll know we got the dumb lot when transoceanic flights start disappearing without a trace.