Gypsie Pick Pockets
 

We are traveling to Rome, Florence, and Venice in a few days and many of my friends that have been to Italy each has a favorite pick pocket or theft story to tell. I would like some suggestions on how to carry money and or camera equipment and any recommendations that some of you seasoned travelers may have. This is an excellent format to share information. Thanks in advance. <BR>

Although I've never been a victim of Gypsies, I've had a few close calls. While I was in Nice, I was walking on a less populated street (but not dark or empty). It was in the afternoon and I found myself attracted to a little baby being carried by his mother. The baby was making cooing noises and was so cute. Before I knew it, I was surrounded by at least 6 gypsies. Apparently, this baby was a attractive little lure. When I realized I was in trouble, I tried to run away. Just then, a woman who owned a bakery came running out of her shop with a broom. She started hitting and yelling at them in French. They finally ran away and I thanked the woman. She scolded me for being careless and I've been very aware of my surroundings since. I had another close call in Rome. A group of children came running up to me with newspapers. I had heard about this scam where they try to cover your handbag with the papers and grab the purse. When they tried that, I started screaming at them. They ran away without my purse. I find if you are aware of your environment and surroundings while you are traveling, you are pretty safe. Many times people are overwhelmed with the sights that they aren't aware that they are being 'marked' for a theft.

Hi Lem, put your wallet in your front pocket if you carry one. Wear a money belt under your shirt (for women you can get a necklace bag to wear under your shirt. If you have a small fanny pack, turn it around to the front. For cameras not just over your shoulder but around your neck and shoulder. Be aware of your surroundings. Leave jewlery at home. Use hotel or room safes. I do all of the above including my 2nd camera attached to my belt. I've not had any problems. <BR>Good travels. <BR>

Purchase a money belt that you wear under your clothes, and keep your passport, extra cash, and credit cards in it. Carry only a days worth of spending money in a pocket or wallet. You may want to look at Rick Steve's website for more information <BR>http://www.ricksteves.com/tips/theft.htm <BR>

Leave your wallet at home. You don't need all that stuff with you. Carry anything you don't wish to be relieved of in an under your clothing security pouch. Carry your camera in something other than a camera bag with the brand emblazoned on it. A simple tote bag with your camera buried under brochures, maps and tour guides works well.

I'm sorry for those who have been victims of thieves. But please note that not all thieves are Gypsies and not all Gypsies are thieves. As has been said here before, to spress question the way the heading is unaceptablepractice. Sorry for PC interlude, but I thouht you'd like to know

Just tuck everything down your jackboots.

Frank and Sheila, <BR> <BR>You probably don't live in Rome - if you did you would know that Gypsies make no attempt to disguise the fact that they live by stealing (OK a bit of occassional begging). I am actually pretty liberal politically and as PC as the next man but lets face facts they are a major problem and ruin a lot of holidays for many people. <BR> <BR>They also do Italy a great diservice as many tourists (particularly from the States) confuse them with Italians. <BR> <BR>Quite why the authorities give them so much free space is quite beyond me. It would certainly not be tolerated in the UK or USA. <BR> <BR>Enjoy your holiday but watch our for them. <BR> <BR>Stan

Stan<BR><BR>I have no doubt that there are thieves. Some of them may be gypsies. But the way I hear the language used here I find very difficult.<BR><BR>Gypsies, in terms of UK legislation, are defined as a "race". I don't believe one could or should describe a race of people as the folks in here sometime describe Gypsies.

Stan, you are saying that gypsies are thieves.Try saying that about any of your own ethnic groups in the US. <BR> Have you never heard of THE MAFIA? <BR>Gypsies are kids compared to Italian crooks. <BR>Why don't you start complaining about "thieving Italians"? <BR>Have you wondered why,as you say,its tolerated in Italy but not in the US? <BR> <BR>If Lem really wanted advice about thieves he should have asked about thieves.There was no need to mention any race.He was wrong.So are you - the problem is the Italians, not the gypsies. <BR>Italy is a rather corrupt country. <BR>Yes, I have been in Rome & Barcelona & other places in Europe where the local cops allow this to go on, & aren't interested in the victims.I have even moaned about it in this forum. <BR>It will happen anywhere where the law is not enforced.The thieves are always whatever ethnic group happens to be at the bottom of the pile. <BR>Most of the Italian "gypsies" of today are Albanians.So what? <BR>Its still up to the cops to stop it, instead they get away with the racist line "well they're just (fill in your insulting racist epithet) so what can we do about it". <BR> I suggest you complain to the Italian authorities about their useless police force, instead of blaming it on race.

Lem, you raise a very good question quite apart from political correctness, the UK definition of race, slander, etc. <BR> <BR>The 'problem' in Rome, first of all, is a bit overblown ... as anyone would know who has spent time in large US cities. <BR> <BR>There is petty crime, though, perhaps at a bit greater rate than some other places. Offsetting that from a US perspective is that there is &gt;&gt;far&lt;&lt; less violent crime. <BR> <BR>As anywhere else you'll find pick pockets operating where there are tourists (hopefully not a separate race, though one often wonders) who, typically, have their minds on other things. <BR> <BR>Just be aware that your holiday is a thief's work day and you'll be fine. <BR> <BR>Tips on safety in Rome at www.twenj.com/romesafe.htm <BR> <BR>Ed

I don't think Americans and Europeans have the same definition of 'gypsy.' We don't have 'gypsies' in the U.S. and most probably aren't aware that in Europe gypsies are a specific ethnic group. As an American, I think of a gypsy as a poor person who makes their living by begging, cheating and stealing, is probably dark skinned, wears layers of bright, mismatched clothes and has a lot of children. I have been bothered by people fitting this description in Italy and other places in southern Europe. Most of the gypsies I have seen, in fact, were begging or harassing tourists. To me, it's understandable that Americans would think of gypsies as thieves or beggars if that is the only role they ever see them in.

I should add that while I think of gypsies as fitting the visual description I gave, I still don't really know who they are so when I use the word 'gypsy' I'm not referring to a particular ethnic group.

ANON you are quite wrong. There are many Gypsies in the US, and as in Europe they tend to make their living by operating various scams, such as fly by night driveway repair, roofing jobs, and on and on. They also own many of the Palm Reading shops you see. There is one clan in particular that is well known for their theivery, scam programs, and other forms of illegal activity, and their name is Marks, and they are spread from coast to coast. <BR> <BR>Gypsies may get bad press, but it is a fact that they make their livings by stealing, cheating, and other forms of scams. Not all of course, but most of them. It is common knowledge that in many European countries, especially Italy, they are given pretty much free reign by the Police to steal and beg.

To the last poster: Please tell us all about American gypsies as I am uninformed and would like to know more. <BR>I still think that when Americans refer to gypsies, we are not refering to a spcific ethnic group, but to the annoying group of people that we see mostly in southern Europe. <BR>To the Americans on this site: what is your definition of a gypsy? Do you know their ethnicity?

The American Heritage Dictionary has the following definition for: <BR>Gypsy - 1 One of nomadic people orig. migrating from the border region between Iran and India to Europe in the 14th or 15th cent. <BR> <BR>2- Often a wanderer; vagabond. <BR> <BR>

Ooops sorry !! <BR> <BR>Should have been clearer in my message. I should ahve made the disction that "Anon" refered to. <BR> <BR>When I said Gypsies I too was refering to that annoying group of people who make a point of trying to pick-pocket you in Rome. They aren't Italians and they aren't the industrious Gypsies which we find in the UK and the States commonly found working in car business or academic research. <BR> <BR>They are called zingari in Italian and the best translation for that is Gypsy. <BR> <BR>Apologies to all hard working Gypsies who may be reading this, <BR> <BR>Stan

Sheila made a comment that needed to be made, and I agree with her.

We've had our share of experience. On a street in Rome we had a teenager try to steal the passport from the brother-in-laws back pocket while a teenager in front of him was trying to distract him. He shouldn't have been carrying his passport in his back pocket and almost learned the lesson the hard way. At another time I thought it would be safe to have a fanny pack which I had in front--also I shouldn't have had a fanny pack as a group of young children tried the "paper under the nose" trick while unzipping it. There was nothing of value in it, but if you don't invite trouble you won't have it. Since then we watch more carefully and abide by the unwritten rules and have had very little trouble. Marilyn

Per the above request some sites that have Gypsy info: <BR> <BR>http://www.gypsyloresociety.org/gandtdefs.htm <BR> <BR>http://educate.si.edu/migrations/gyp/gypstart.html <BR> <BR>http://www.sltrib.com/2000/mar/03262000/utah/36336.htm <BR> <BR>http://www.impactvisuals.org/gypsies-pg.html <BR> <BR> <BR>

If you are talking about thieves please just say thieves.There is no need for all this.

Would you all please stop this holier than thou PC crap!!! "Oh I'm so better than you." <BR> <BR>As you guys saw from Mike's post, one of the accepted definitions of Gypsies is Vagabond Etc.... <BR> <BR>If you are SO worried about being PC (SHEILA) than for god's sake use their official term "Romani" or any of its various derivitives. <BR> <BR>You fucks are so annoying.

Whew, Lem! I bet you're glad you brought this up! <BR>Let me tell you about my non-experiences with Gyps...er, uh, Roma...er, uh, vagabonds in Rome. <BR>We were there in May and kept waiting to get hit by them, but it never happened. I don't know if the Italian police have cleaned them out or what. <BR>We outfitted ourselves with a handy money belt that fits inside inside the front of your slacks and is hooked onto your belt. It fits nicely and is comfortable. I wish I could tell you where I got it, but all I can remember is that I ordered it from one of those specialty travel catalogs. <BR>By the way, there are Watcha-Call-Its in the U.S. Their special scams: <BR>Fake home repair, including blacktopping driveways with ordinaey paint -- they prey on the elderly, and <BR>Causing a ruckus in stores or supermarkets to distract security and then making off with the goods. <BR>Their origin is India, not Europe.

I am Romish. I come to seal your driveway, roof your house, and steal your money. HAHAHA

I'm staying out of this one ...

Here is a little number I performed about Gypsies, er, Romish: <BR>GYPSIES, TRAMPS AND THIEVES <BR> <BR>written by Bob Stone <BR> <BR>performed by Cher and others <BR> <BR>I was born in the wagon of a traveling show <BR>My momma used to dance for the money they'd throw <BR>Papa would do whatever he could <BR>Preach a little Gospel <BR>Sell a couple bottles of Dr. Good(1) <BR> <BR> <BR>Chorus: <BR>Gypsies, tramps and thieves <BR>We'd hear it from the people of the town <BR>They'd call us <BR>Gypsies, tramps and thieves <BR>But every night all the men would come around <BR>And lay their money down <BR> <BR> <BR>Picked up a boy just south of Mobile(2) <BR>Gave him a ride, filled him with a hot meal <BR>I was 16, he was 21 <BR>Rode with us to Memphis(3) <BR>And Papa woulda shot 'im if he knew what he'd done <BR> <BR> <BR>Chorus <BR> <BR> <BR>I never had schoolin' but he taught me well <BR>With his smooth, Southern style <BR>Three months later I'm a gal in trouble(4) <BR>And I haven't seen him for a while <BR>I haven't seen him for a while <BR> <BR> <BR>She was born in the wagon of a traveling show <BR>Her momma used to dance for the money they'd throw <BR>Grandpa would do whatever he could <BR>Preach a little Gospel <BR>Sell a couple bottles of Dr. Good <BR> <BR> <BR>Repeat Chorus <BR> <BR> <BR>(1) Traveling shows often sold medicines with imaginative names. Some contained opium or other narcotics or cocaine. It's not surprising that they were quite popular. <BR>(2) a city in Alabama <BR>(3) a city in Tennessee, more than 500 miles (800 kilometers) from Mobile, a long way in a wagon pulled by horses <BR>(4) "in trouble" when describing a young women usually means she's pregnant <BR>

This is a good reason to always pack some heat so you can blow these suckers away when they come around. I recommend a 45 as a good all around general purpose anti-Gypsy device. However, if the gang is all children than a nice chrome plated 22 will work very nicely. In that case the 45 would be a case of overkill. <BR> <BR>Thank you, and God bless George Bush (and his Daddy).

I had a "gypsy" hand me a carnation then proceed to read my palm in Seville...when I said not interested and refused to pay her, she swiped back the flower. Isn't that INDIAN giving???? <BR> <BR>I'm so confused.

SO ANYWAY, Lem....back to your question. If you must have a wallet, don't carry it in your back pocket. That's the first place the thieves feel up. Also, keep your reflexes quick--my brother was pretty fast in pinning a gypsy girl to a train door, forcing her partner to return his wallet or be separated or caught. Money belts are worth the discomfort, let me tell you.

Also watch for groups of these people trying to encircle you or just getting too close. If you keep them at a distance, your chances of a confrontation are less.

Thank you everyone that responded to my message. I apoligize to those that I offended. It was not my intention to single out any race or particular group. Many of the travel books that I have read specifically warn of gypsie thieves. For those that were offended perhaps you should no longer use this web site since they too refer to the "Gypsie Thieves" It is unfortunate that we now live in an age whereas a simple question is now percieved to be an insult and you cannot get an answer without all the political posturing. The U.S. Presidential election has clearly illustrated that.... of course, that is another topic altogether. Many thanks to those that answered a simple question from a simple man.

You're "simple" alright Lem! Why don't you take your own advice and stay off this site.

Actually Lem, I wouldn't want to be categorised with those who had a go at you and I feel a bit guilty for having started it, but I do feel strongly about racial generalisation and I was only trying to guide you quietly in avoiding what, in some circles, would ne a solecism. I think you got two sets of information from the question and if we all just ignore those who managed to be rude about it I guess we'll live longer!!

Do the Fodor's publications also spell gypsy in that most unusual way ("gypsie"). I've never seen that before. <BR> <BR>I think Sheila was absolutely right in content and tone every time she said anything on this thread.

Looks like Fedup and Schoolmarm are still mad over the election. Typical Gore voters, all action and no thought. At least Schoolmarm can spell.

BJ get a life. Gore or Bush has nothing to do with Lem's racist troll posting. And what's spelled wrong in my posting. You suck.

Experts agree that the United States of America has the world's most racially, ethnically, economically, sexually, generationally heterogeneous pickpocket force in the world, so why do you come to Europe expected us to be all the same?

Where exactly does the Fodors lit refer to gypsy thieves or "gypsie [sic] thieves")?

Gypsies, tramps, and thieves.

To Charlton Heston (ha ha) Very funny but this particular chat group seems a bit touchy and I am afraid might take you up on your suggestions.<BR>To Sharon who lost her bloom...I mean rose. "Indian giver"? Not India. You do know don't you that "pale faces" "speaking with forked tongues" called Native Americans that.Rather ironic when one considers all the broken treaties and stolen lands perpetrated by "non-Indians".