Greece-Early Planning, please help
 

My DH and I (60ish) are planning a trip to Greece for June 2014. We have never been. We want to see archeological sites, great scenery and have a combination of rest and activity. We have a timeshare trade booked for June 3 on Crete for a week and we need to be in Lake Garda Italy on June 27. Those are our only constraints. Here's a preliminary itinerary, starting at the end of May.

Fly to Athens, rest one day.
Mykonos 3 nights
Santorini 4 nights
Crete 7 nights (timeshare trade just west of Heraklion)
Ferry to Peloponnese, drive to Athens and tour as we go 5 nights
Athens 7 nights
Open- 5 nights What should we do?
Lake Garda 4 nights

Here's some question please:
We are only English speakers, will we have any difficulty navigating/driving on our own.
Do we need a car anywhere other than Crete and Peloponnese?
Would you change the number of nights anywhere? More or Less?
If we squeeze out more than 5 open nights at the end we'd like to go to Amalfi or Cinque Terre before Lake Garda. Enough time?
We plan to fly from Athens to Mykonos and take the ferry from Mykonos to Santorini; good plan?
Any recommendations on where to stay around $100 or less? Realistic budget?

Thanks for your help!

By the way, you may have noticed that I was asking a lot of questions about Ireland/Scotland for the same time. Now that I have it totally planned, we decided to save it for another time.

Just a couple of points: You don't need 7 nights in Athens unless you are planning to take several day trips to: Hydra, Delphi, etc.

I would plan on 4 nights in Athens to see the major sights, unless you like to travel at a very slow pace.

Also, I'd highly recommend connecting through Athens to Mykonos on arrival unless you've missed the flights. It's a very short flight ( about 20 min) and saves you some backtracking to and from the airport.

Your budget is extremely limited, especially for the summer months almost anywhere in Europe.

Travel to the Amalfi Coast from Athens is complicated and can be expensive. You have to fly to Rome, then train down to Naples or Salerno. From Naples, you have to either arrange a private transfer to the coast, or take a local train to Sorrento, then a boat ( if available) or bus to your destination.

From Salerno, I believe it's a boat or bus connection to Amalfi, unless you've arranged a transfer.

Your plan looks okay to me. The ferry from Crete direct to the Peloponnese leaves from Kissamos to Gythio only once or twice per week, so take that into consideration. Otherwise you will have to go back through Athens to get to the Peloponnese.

You won't have any difficulty with language, as most road signs are in both Greek and English (Latin) characters. Most Greeks who work in the tourism industry speak at least a little English, and many speak it fluently. Few foreigners have mastered the Greek language, so English is the <i>lingua franca</i> in hotels, shops, and restaurants that serve tourists.

A car is certainly an advantage, but I've never found the need for one in Athens or on the Greek Islands. You will want one for Crete and the Peloponnese, but will need separate cars for Crete and the Peloponnese, as few, if any, car hire companies allow you to take one on the ferries.

Nobody knows the ferry timetables for 2014. They are usually published at the very last moment (sometimes a few days before the ship begins to run) anyway.
Catamarans Mykonos - Santorini - Heraklion are usually not daily before end May. They usually begin to run in the second half of May.
Nobody can tell you now whether the ferry from Kissamos (Crete) will go to Gythion or to Kalamata and wheter it will run once twice or 3times weekly or not at all.
There is a lot to see in Peloponnese. You could use more than 5 days for that.
7 days for Athens (without day trips) is rather too much, even if you visit all museums.
English is the lingua franca in Greece. You will have no language problem at all!
Visit rather another area of Greece than Amalfi Coast or 5Terre. If you have to choose between the 2 latter, Amalfi Coast would be the better bet (for me, it makes only sense together with a visit of Naples and surroundings, however. For that, you need a full week)

Athens - Amalfi:
either direct Alitalia flight from ATH to Naples
or easyjet etc. to FCO plus train to Roma Termini - Naples
or ferry from Patras to Bari plus Marinobus to Naples,
then Circumvesuviana train to Sorrento and bus to Amalfi
or ferry Bari - Brindisi, train to Taranto - Salerno, bus to Amalfi

ferry PATRAS - Brindisi, sorry!!!

<i>Nobody can tell you now whether the ferry from Kissamos (Crete) will go to Gythion or to Kalamata and wheter it will run once twice or 3times weekly or not at all.</i>

No one can tell you <i>with absolute certainty</i>, but this is a year-round route also serving the islands of Kythira and Antikythira. As LANE Lines has been running that route for many years, it is reasonable to assume it will continue to do so in 2014. Whether it will stop at Kalamata or Monemvassia is a different matter. Although timetables are often published only a few weeks in advance, they follow a pattern that can be anticipated from previous week's schedules, although that is no guarantee.

When planning a trip of this nature you need to maintain a degree of flexibility. I mentioned the infrequency of ferries from Kissamos to Gythio because of your timeshare, which probably has fixed dates. It may not be practical for you to go that route anyway.

Without knowing what your plans are for Athens it would be presumptuous to say that 7 nights is too much. There is enough to do in that city to easily fill the time. :-)

I think it would be better to fly directly to Crete from Athens, then ferry from Heraklion to Santorini-Myukonos and back to Athens.

From Athens you can rent a car and drive to Delphi and then all the way down to the Peloponnese.
Five nights are enough to see the highlights of the Peloponnese.
Drive along the coast from Delphi via Galaxidi and Nafpaktos to Patra, then to Olympia, overnight there.
Drive through the gorgeous mountainous Peloponnese ( Ileia and Laconia) to Nafplio, see Mycenae , Turyns and Epidaurus and then go all the way down to see Mystras and the Laconian and Messinian Mani ( Monemvasia and Elafonisos are both worth a visit too)

You can spend actually more than 5 nights on the Peloponnese, since there is a lot to see.

From Kisamos/Crete you would arrive in Gythio, where there is no possibility of renting a car. Renting one in Creteand taking it to Athens would be very expensive, as you would be charged with a fee for the return of the car to Crete.

Just a FYI: The post above mentions an ALITALIA flight from Athens-Naples. That flight doesn't start before about mid-June, and it's a small plane with bare bones luggage restrictions. How do I know? We looked into it last year, but our dates didn't work.

Thanks everyone, great information. How many days do you think we need on Mykonos and Santorini?

There seems to be flight from Crete to Kalamata, that may solve the problem with the order. The problem with going to Crete first is that our timeshare starts June 3 so we can't go before that. If I leave the order the same and cut two days out of Athens, that gives us a week in Italy prior to Lake Garda. If we do go to Amalfi or CT, we will rent a car while in the area. We would probably fly to Verona to be near Lake Garda after that by June 27.

Our budget is a bit flexible so I will adjust accordingly if you have any suggestions especially on the islands.

sdtravels

Are you sure about the flights from Heraklion to Kalamata?
I think you will have to fly via Athens :)

Not only are there no direct flights from Heraklion to Kalamata, you're attempting to plan your itinerary for 2014 based on 2013 information. This is something you can't do with any degree of certainty. To proceed along this path is a HUGE mistake.

The safest assumption is: you will have to go back through Athens to start your trip through the Peloponnese, hiring a car at Athens Airport. The flights to Kalamata (high season only, I believe) go through Athens, so that would be no advantage.

Returning to Athens may work better for you anyway, as the flight to Athens is only about 1 hour, and Nafplio another 3 hours by road from Athens. Alternately you could first go to Delphi, then drive through the Peloponnese as suggested by clausar. Either way you can then return your car to the airport, saving yourself the extra cost of drop-off at a different location.

I just checked the Aegean Airlines website. Flights to Kalamata this year are from June 14th to September 15th only, and originate in Athens. It's unlikely they will be running early enough for you next year.

Thanks everyone. Back to the drawing board. This is such a great forum. Please check back later for my next attempt.

Heimdall:
you are right, LANE is now operating for more than 5 years between Kissamos and Peloponissos, after having suddenly abandoned it's traditional itinerary Piraeus - Milos - Santorini - Aghios Nikolaos - Sitia - Kassos - Karpathos - Chalki - Rhodos.

sdtravels:
"The problem with going to Crete first is that our timeshare starts June 3 so we can't go before that. If I leave the order the same and cut two days out of Athens, that gives us a week in Italy prior to Lake Garda. If we do go to Amalfi or CT, we will rent a car while in the area. We would probably fly to Verona to be near Lake Garda after that by June 27. Our budget is a bit flexible so I will adjust accordingly if you have any suggestions especially on the islands."

It's not forbidden to stay a few day in another part of Crete before June 3rd: Crete is a big Island and you cannot visit everythng in only 1 week anyway.

Your above mentioned post shows that you are still at the very beginning of your planning. That's not forbidden as it wouldn't make sense to make any reservation before next April anyway. June is low season in the whole Mediterranean and nothing will be sold out anyway.
In the meantime, you may find out why you need a car in 5Terre.

June doesn't sound like beach weather in Santorini and Mykonos. I'm worried we are spending too much time there. Cruises only stop for a few hours. I definitely want to go to Delos. We aren't night scene people. What else should we look forward to?

Here's my next attempt.

Delphi/Peloponnese 6 nights
Athens 4 nights
Crete 7 nights
Santorini 4 nights
Mykonos 4 nights
Day lost on getting to Amalfi (Mykonos to Rome thru ATH then drive)
Naples/Pompei/Amalfi area 7 nights
Day lost on getting to Lake Garda
Lake Garda 4 nights

The start date depends on the availability of frequent flyer flights. I know there is a business class flight available on 5/25 but I am going to wait to see if a different airline posts some more flights.

Hi sdtravels,

Your itinerary is looking better, and I would stick to the number of days at each location you have now allocated. June will definitely be beach weather in the Cyclades, with air temperatures getting hot, and water temperatures cool but swimmable.

Don't worry about cruises stopping on the islands for only a few hours — that's their loss, not yours. The length of stops has more to do with the cruise ship keeping to its itinerary than how much there is to see on each island. Some cruise ships even stop on Mykonos at times of day when it is impossible to get to Delos.

<i>We aren't night scene people. What else should we look forward to?</i> Leisurely breakfasts at sidewalk cafes; spending days exploring or going to the beach; day cruises; wine tours on Santorini; evening meals at traditional tavernas; drinks at a sidewalk cafe before going back to your room. :-)

Suggest you book your Mykonos > Athens and Athens > Rome flights together rather than separately. That way, in case of delays, the airline will be obliged to get you on the next available flight.

Thanks Heimdall, I am liking it better myself. I am now working on the Peloponnese section in detail. Looks like an awful lot of driving. Thankfully DH LOVES to drive.

How's this:
From Athens go directly to Delphi and overnight. We will probably need to get some rest after the flight.
Drive Delphi/Galaxidi/Nafpaktos/Olympia 1 night
Drive Olypmia/Kardamyli 3 nights, Do loop to Philos, Methoni,Kroni one day, Loop to Stoupa,Areopolis,Vathia the next.
Drive to Monevasia via Gytheio 1 night
Drive back to Athens via Mystras, Mycenae, Navplion,Epidavros
The first and last driving days seem pretty long. Any other suggestions on how to break it up? We don't need to stay in one place during this week. Maybe we shouldn't stay in Monevasia and make it further to Mystras that day?

I'm not an expert on the Peloponnese, but would plan to spend a night in Nafplio, because there is so much to see in the area. That would also shorten your last driving day. :-)

Just a comment on the Amalfi Coast portion. I would ditch the car idea in June. It's bumper to bumper traffic by then, plus hairpin turns with trucks coming up right behind you. Plus there is very limited parking in the coastal towns. Not fun at all.

You'd be much better off taking a train to either Naples or Salerno and making your way by various connections ( if Naples combination of train to Sorrento then boat or bus to final destination) to your hotel.

WWK Are the boats on the Amalfi Coast readily available on demand like taxis or are they more like tours? Do you have a web page where I can check them out? I know all this is quite early but I would like to be comfortable that we can actually do this before I book my FF flights which I may do soon.

A night in the old fortress of Monemvasia is a unique experience. Count then about 3 days for the drive to Athens with a half day stop at Mistras, stops at Sparti and Argos, 1 full day for Epidauros-Nauplia-Thyrins-Mycenae and a bit more than half a day for Akrokorinthos, Elefsis and Dafni Monastery. Count more time if you intend to enter Athens at a rush hour.

Forget the boats along the Amalfi Coast. There are freqent buses between Salerno and Amalfi as well as between Sorrento and Amalfi.
http://www.amalficoastweb.com/orari_...imetables.html
(will change at least twice until next June)

sdtravels,

When we were in Positano last year, there was a kiosk at the port where you could buy tickets for boats between Positano-Capri,Positano-Sorrento, and Positano-Amalfi. You can check: www.positano.com for further information. This was during mid-June-August.

In the past, there have been at least two sailings a day between these destinations and back. You can also check some of the boat schedules at: www.alicost.it , but for more updated information I would check with with your hotel's front desk.

We have been to Positano/Amalfi Coast several times and are going back tomorrow. We have never had a problem taking boats between most destinations. Wouldn't dream of renting a car there during the summer months. Too much of a headache.

Many tourists - us included - prefer the boats when possible to the SITA buses, which are often overcrowded and boiling hot in the summer months. Lastly, if you suffer from motion sickness, it's much less likely to happen on a bus than on the congested and twisting Amalfi Coast Drive.

From Salerno, I believe there is a ferry to Amalfi. Or, you could arrange a private transfer from Salerno to your hotel/apt.
We usually come in through Naples, so I am not familiar with those arrangements.

Good luck!

Just wanted to add that we have often visited Greece in early June. Great time to go! The water is often still a little chilly for swimming, but the weather is generally gorgeous, not broiling hot.

Thanks everyone. I'll keep you posted on when I get my flights. I've got two big trips planned before the Greece/Italy trip so watch for my trip reports. We are off in less than a month to Denmark for the first leg of a six week trip mostly in Africa. Happy travels.

I know I am a minority here, but I thought I'll throw my opinion just for some balance/different perspective.

I find 7 days in Athens absolutely fine even without day trips. If you want to really take your time and explore the city that is... 3 full days are fine to cover major outdoors sites and 2-3 museums, plus maybe enjoy a long walk around Acropolis or hike on Philoppapos or Lecabettus hill.this is true. But there are a ton more museums and walks ner the city center... And Athens is not only about this. You can stay in an appartment and feel a little bit like a local or choose a centraly located hotel, doesn't matter. Athens public transport is bery handy and you may explore some different areas outside city center where tourists rarely set a foot. You may explore some of the great food options outside the tourist tavernas of Plaka. You may discover some hidden or not so hidden corners very diverse one from an other. You may take a metro and walk or taxi to Alsos Papagou for a snack in the park cafe/restaurant there, only 15 minutes away from down town but completely different feel. Or you may metro to Kiffisia to see how old wealth lives on neoclassis mansions or metro/but it to Piraeus and explore its different harbour, from posh yaught marinas and upclass pricey fish restaurants to working class honest tiny taverns. You may walk and walk around city center and explore smaller lanes and corner shops, open markets, talk and interact with local people. You may have luxury of time to visit whatever site on a leisure pace and revisit if you wish. You may take plenty of pictures from different agles and see the Acropolis lit on different parts of the day. List can go on forever.

I guess it depends on how you like to travel. I find that although a minumum of 4 nights/3 fuill days on every place is a good tule, it is often more rewarding to take your time on larger places. I am not on my '60s, I am early 30s. I have pleasantly spend 3 weeks in Paris and 3 weeks in London and 1 week in Warsaw and 1 week in Dublin on my first visits on those cities. I did not get bored.

Hi SDtravels - like the new itinerary.

Just a note of caution - we found the driving from one part to another of the "fingers" of the peloponnese to be much more arduous than expected. The distances look small but you are going through long, windy mountain roads and it takes a lot out of you. If you can both share the driving it might help? Otherwise maybe factor in staying put for a day in some place to break it up.

If overnighting near Gythio, we loved the hotel Castello Antico, which at a 3* rating (I think) punches well above its league and it price tag.

The motorways are good, so your last driving day may not be quite as bad as you expect. It's those darned mountain roads that take you by surprise...

BTW if you click on my name and scroll down to see all my topics you will find a sort of trip report I did last year on the peloponnese - dealing only with hotels and restaurants, but you never know, there might be some useful info there.

Mariha,
you are right, but for people who are really interested in History and culture of Athens and Greece. But most people in this forum find a visit of the Greek National Museum "too boring" and would certainly not go to the Cycladic Museum the next day and to the Acropolis, Byzantine and Benaki museums at the following days. Most people in this forum would never visit the walls of Pericles and would consider the visit of Kaiseriani "a waste of time".

Knowing that and seeing that they didn't plan enough time for Peloponissos, I suggested to reduce the time in Athens.

Most people also don't explore culinary Athens that has many great restaurants, but prefer to eat at one of the tourist traps of the Plaka....

Have given often detailed advice on great restaurants and tavernas in the centre of Athens, that don't offer touristy food, nobody ever visited them though......

And most people don't realise how much Athens has to offer. That's why it is so valuable for people like mariha (who has been on this forum since 2007) and clausar to remind us there is more to Athens than Parthenon and Plaka. ;-)

Thank you. All points well made.

Mariha, we are mostly interested in archeological sites and great scenery. We have never been museum people so that will probably be low on our list. We also don't spend a lot of time at each place. I guess we kind of go, see, go and read about it later or before.

I like your suggestion about staying in an apartment. We prefer to stay in apartments for the space and the ability to cook some meals with local ingredients. Since we are moving around quite a bit on this trip, it might be easier to stay in hotels and eat out. littlejane, I will look up your recommendations.

Food generally isn't a priority for us. We hardly ever go to restaurants even at home since we are gourmet cooks and never really enjoy food we think we can make better ourselves. I hate tourist trap restaurants that generally (in my experience) serve low quality meals. It's hard to take restaurant recommendations since in the past, we have trouble finding them and then go somewhere else anyway. We will likely ask locals for recommendations. However clausar thanks for mentioning your posts, I will definitely look them up for some ideas.

littlejane, thank you for the hints about the driving. I was already thinking that is a lot of driving, but I didn't think about the type of roads. It depends on when I can get my flights. There is a FF flight 3 days earlier. I might just take that and spend more time in Peloponnese.

Feel free to keep commenting. I welcome any suggestions. This will likely be our only trip to Greece so I want to get a taste of all the highlights.

By the way, if you have any interest, here is a link to my photos from our last trip to Italy. We went to Venice, Bolzano, Lake Garda, Florence, San Sano, a few other Tuscan villages, and Rome.

http://garyandsusan.shutterfly.com/italy2006/101#101

We've spent the bulk of our last three trips to Greece in the Peloponnese. From Nafplio alone, there are day trips enough to keep one busy for well over a week! We too are very interested in ancient sights. Some highlights besides the biggies (Mycenae, Epidauros, Tiryns) are Nemea, the Argive Heraion, Midea, the tombs at Dendra, and Lerna. Ancient Messene (not too far from Kalamata) is an amazing sight, as is Ancient Olympia. Pylos and Vassae are also fascinating. Mystras is hauntingly beautiful and Monemvassia is very unique. I could keep going... All to say that you can't go wrong spending as much time in the Peloponnese as you can :-).

So for some scenery make sure you hike up on Lycabettus or Philopappos hill for aerial views of Athens. You may be able to save half day or something too and explore some of Attica coast line which is pretty scenic too, for example sea views from Zea/Kastella on Piraeus or a day trip to Sounion Temple....

Reading about a place is not the same as exploring and absoarb. I understand what you say about museums, but having some space for a walk in say Anafiotika and a decent tavern meal is not the same.Getting feedback is not the same as "feeling" a place. Eating in taverns in Greece is not simply about the food. It has a strong social aspect. I think you may realise what I'm saying when you are there....

On rest of your itinerary, in case you have some spare time you may consider a stop by UNESCO heritage site Hosios Loukas Monastery ~25 kms before Delphi coming from Athens,in a rural and quiet area and maybe a stop by Arahova ~10 kms before Delphi- quiet mountain villlage on summer, trendy ski resort on winter-. Then having a car you may want to consider staying on one of the hotels on upper Delphi residential area. It is only 5-10 minutes walk down to the main road and further 5 minutes to the sites and museum, and a stay thewre is more quiet and somehow "authentic". Even if on the main road, make sure you get a hotel and a room with a view.
Be aware that Delphi is a demanding site, lots of climbing up and down on a hill side. Eve fast paced people need at least 2 hours there. I believe museum worths a visit too, some impressive staff and is small enough to explore even in 30 minutes on a fast pace.

I believe Galaxidi and Nafpaktos are nice spots to spend an overnight or at least a few hours, I understand that you can not fit everything in on your time frame though...

Enjoy your trip!

We've been away for awhile but now I'm back to planning. The Peloponnese looks like a lot of driving on very winding roads. Now that we've had time to think about it, I think we will spend 5 weeks in Greece and 1 week in Lake Garda for the wedding. We'll save the rest of Italy for another time. That way we can take our time with Greece.

Could someone suggest an itinerary for Peloponnese for about 12 days? Should we stay in one location for a week and do day trips or should we stay 1-2 nights as we go? Kalamata looks like a central location but day trips look like a lot of driving and backtracking. Open to suggestions....

If you haven't seen it I recommend browsing the Lonely Planet Greece travel guide. There are many nooks and crannies throughout Greece that all sound interesting and beautiful. Our trip next year will be only about 10 days and there is just too much in LP I would want to do but if I had a month, wow! It has suggested intineraries as well as many details about lodging, dining, site seeing. (And LP recommendations tend to be on the budget end as far as costs.)

Ill throw in my bit ...even if it is a bit late
Our plans were dramatically changed for the better when a colleague of mine suggested we dont do the local islands but instead go to kalambaka/meteora to see the amazing monasteries built into the towering rock structures. ( monks had to be lowered down in baskets apparently)..google and see what I mean.
It was an overnight tour - wed already been to delphi so we didnt do the oracle tour again but hung out in the village.We overnighted in Kalambaka- a really vibrant village at night and could see the lights of the monasteries way up high
The next morning we set off to visit these awesome feats of engineering and Im so glad we did...I have never to this day seen anything like it.
In the afternoon we were dropped off to the airport and headed to santorini. That trip really added a different texture to the experience of Greece as a whole and I highly recommend that anyone thinking of just doing a few nights in Athens (recommend maybe two or three at most in the capital itself)should consider venturing into the interior.