Greece and Turkey next summer - are we crazy?
 

We are about to finalize flights (frequent flyer so they are changeable) for a three week trip next summer starting in Greece and ending in Turkey. Watching the news these days I begin to wonder if we are insane to be planning a vacation in one country in economic chaos and another that has just declared war on ISIS. For those of you on the ground, would you wait a bit, or are the news reports sensationalizing the situation? I will get trip insurance, and if things go downhill we can always change plans I guess - still, would love to hear input from those of you who are there now. Thanks

What would you be insuring exactly?

As to the question... I would expect that we will back to a Grexit drama this time next year and Turkey will still be fighting ISIS. I doubt you will have any major safety concerns, but I'm not sure either country would be at their best.

I know you are going to hate this response because it's not at all what you asked, but I have to ask, how are people on the ground today going to be able to assuage your fears about next year?

We are booked on a cruise next summer with 1 port stop in Turkey and 3 ports in Greece including debarking in Athens. We also just booked our airfare for this cruise on Turkish Airlines with plane change both ways in Istanbul. I'm no more worried than I am for any other international trip. I only wish our cruise ported in Istanbul so we could tour the city. We will just enjoy the few hours at the airport. Hope they sell Turkish delight!

Oh, and make sure your trip insurance allows you to cancel for no specified reason--not cheap or easy to find, but it's the only policy worth getting under the circumstances.

hi travelgourmet - at this point not much to insure, but as we start booking hotels we will want it. I've learned the hard way NewbE to always get the "cancel for any reason" insurance - having had to cancel several trips for various family reasons it is worth it for me. and true NewbE, no one can predict what next year will bring - just sort of curious how chaotic things feel right now. ah well, nothing is certain....

<<would love to hear input from those of you who are there now>>

I am in Athens , I don't see any economical chaos...
Sure there have been difficulties for us locals while the banks were closed, but this was under no circumstance a "chaos".

Situation is more or less starting to get back to normal.
As for tourists , I am not aware of any serious impact.

Thanks Clausar - we decided to go for it - Carpe Diem and all that. and now for a glorious 11 months of planning.

If you haven't already discovered the great ongoing thread by OC. He lives in Istanbul & provides great onsite info for the country.
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...estoration.cfm

what yestravel said.

There is really no need to book your hotels before May 2016. I often travel in this area (for the last time just 2 weeks ago: Antalya - Olympos - Kas/Patara - Kastellorizo - Rhodos - Amorgos - Donoussa - Naxos - Athens) and I never book my hotels and ferries more than 3 weeks ahead.

I live in Athens, I was downtown Athens yesterday for a walk with friends and it was just a normal relaxing day... People shopping, hanging out, tourists everywhere. What did you expect to see in Athens? People throwing molotovs to each other? We have a financial crisis, so does Italy, so does Spain... I don't see anyone being afraid of visiting Italy or Spain. It makes me a bit angry that you consider it "crazy" to visit Greece, as there is simply no reason to be afraid of anything here. I don't understand you people...

<i>hi travelgourmet - at this point not much to insure, but as we start booking hotels we will want it.</i>

Are you planning on putting big dollars towards non-refundable hotel rooms? I ask not to be flippant, but to urge you to crunch the numbers and determine if you really need insurance. If you are using award flights, the change fee is something like $150 per ticket, which seems like the sort of risk one should simply self-insure. Would the savings from booking a non-refundable hotel really outweigh the cost of trip insurance? I guess I don't understand what the nonrefundable costs are that would need insuring.

<i>We have a financial crisis, so does Italy, so does Spain... I don't see anyone being afraid of visiting Italy or Spain. It makes me a bit angry that you consider it "crazy" to visit Greece, as there is simply no reason to be afraid of anything here.</i>

If I were the type to be concerned about visiting Greece, it would be because of nonsense like this. Greece has issues. Big issues. Pretending that it doesn't is unhelpful and makes people think you are hiding something.

Just be forthright. Admit that Greece has a fair bit of uncertainty. Admit that getting cash out of the bank can be problematic when the banks are shut down. Admit that there is some risk the same will happen sometime next year. No, it isn't the end of the world and it doesn't mean you will be shot in the street, but pretending that there aren't problems comes across as disingenuous.

FWIW, I would also note that saying stuff like "it was just a normal relaxing day... People shopping, hanging out" provides fodder to the Northern Europeans that think Greeks are a bunch of lazy crooks. While normally I am all for anything that agitates Germans, I'd recommend at least pretending that life is hard when you are asking the rest of Europe and the IMF to subsidize your lifestyle.

I'm going to Turkey in September. I booked my hotels early and only one asked for a deposit. That hotel also asks for full payment 30 days in advance with cancellation up to 15 days before check-in. The rest have a one night penalty with differing cancellations dates of between 48 hours prior to 14 days prior. I'm also using frequent flier miles, except for the flights within Turkey which are non-refundable.

While my trip costs to date are minimal, for about $100 I purchased trip insurance mainly for the emergency medical evacuation back to my home hospital of choice. So, yes, it is expensive as a percent of the total I've spent to date, but if some reason my husband or I are seriously injured or ill, I don't want to write a check for $100,000 or more to get home. It also includes cancel for any reason which would cover 50% of my pre-paid costs (including re-depositing my frequent flier miles) as well as the usual travel insurance coverage.

So you need to crunch the numbers and decide what is best for you. I spent time on the phone with Travel Guard and asked a lot of question.

Have fun planning!

@travelgourmet, I live in Athens. You simply can't know better than me. The only problem a tourist can have in Greece is that he can get a specific amount of cash each day from the banks. That's it. How tragic.
We simply don't care about what you think about us. It's funny to consider us Greeks lazy. We work 42 hours per week, when the average European works 37,2 (and Germans 35,3). So guess what, Northen Europeans are the true ''lazy crooks'' as you mentioned. But you know what, we work more than the Northern Europeans, but we are not workaholics. They live to work, but we work to live. That's why you consider us lazy.
Oh, so you want us to become miserable and not live our lives? No. Call us however you want, we don't care. You have already taken enough money from the Greek people, but we won't give you our lives. I won't pretend anything, I have nothing to hide.

Petro
Let's keep this what it is, a travel forum :)

<i>That's why you consider us lazy.</i>

I'm not calling you a lazy crook. I am just pointing out that pretty much every elected leader in Europe has called you and your countrymen lazy crooks. While I recognize why one would want to say "life is great, come on over" to encourage tourism, that is inconsistent with the press and, frankly, inconsistent with the message your leadership has been giving to the rest of the world.

<i>The only problem a tourist can have in Greece is that he can get a specific amount of cash each day from the banks. That's it. How tragic.</i>

I'm personally not a fan of having to stand in line at the bank to get money out. I'm even less of a fan of doing that every day because I can only take out x amount. And I really hate doing that on vacation.

Travelgourmet-

Inform your bank of your intention to use your debit card while traveling and ask for an increase of your maximum daily withdrawl limit. That usually takes care of that issue.

lauramsgarden,

As someone living in Greece, unfortunately I feel that I am part of a small minority fighting a lost battle on the travel forums. Whenever someone asks on the ground information about what's going on in Greece -and I guess Turkey- tons of people who are not on the ground will chip in and stand on their shoe boxes and will share whateverer their speculations or views are on the situation and start an argument, often not believing what we see and report with our own eyes.

Yes, no one can predict the future but there have been no problems for visitors whatsoever, that been now when media present empty super markets and panicked people in front of banks or on 2011 when media presented Greece as a war zone or at any time this financial turmoil has started since 5-6 years ago. My opinion is to go ahead and enjoy those countries as million people have done so during past months.

Just to clarify: Capital controls apply only to Greek bank accounts. If you have a card connected to an American bank account, you can withdraw as much money as your own bank allows from local ATMs. It is the locals that can withdraw only 60 euro/day for the time been. Contrary to what media report, most ATMs operate as usual. As do restaurants, hotels,supermarkets, gaz stations, shops, public trransport, archeological sites and museums and so on.....


This is my first and only post on this thread, as it will head nowhere other than a never ending argument and actually off topic as you asked for opinions from people on the ground but many who are not here already made their appearence.

I will only advice you to check as many travel reports as possible not only on fodors but on more active forums such as trip advisor if this helps.

Wherever you end up going, Have a Great Trip!

The end.

<i>Inform your bank of your intention to use your debit card while traveling and ask for an increase of your maximum daily withdrawl limit. That usually takes care of that issue.</i>

To be clear, I don't have any problems withdrawing money on a usual basis. I was commenting on the fact that during the forced bank shutdown in Greece there were reports of difficulty getting euros from the ATM simply because the ATMs ran out of notes. There were also restrictions on Greek bank account holders limiting how much they could withdraw (I think it was €60 per day) and reports were that this was resulting in a fair bit of lines at the ATMs.

<i>often not believing what we see and report with our own eyes. </i>

You will forgive us as the Greek Prime Minister has been telling the world that Greece is in dire straits, that the economy has contracted by something like 30% in five years, and that youth unemployment is at stratospheric levels. Is that incorrect?

This looks like a great year for travel to Greece, with the $ and £ buying more € than for many a year. I am currently looking at flights for September. :-)

<stand on their shoe boxes>

Don't you mean "soapboxes"?

oh wow folks, didn't mean to start a whole controversy. So many countries are going through tough times and my experience is that people everywhere(for the most part) just want to earn an honest living, raise their families and live their lives. It's just so hard to know from US news outlets how bad "bad" is....

Having said that we pulled the trigger so to speak and booked flights for June - arriving in Athens, departing Istanbul - now the fun part of filling in the middle (we are going crazy with three whole weeks). I'll post another thread on this one, but would love to find a way to take a ferry from one of the Greek islands over to the Turkish coast and then go to Izmir (would love to see Ephesus and Gallipoli) - Neckverd, sounds like you have a lot of experience with this - any suggestions of how to pull that off.

and thanks for the trip insurance advice - I've used it enough that I'm pretty comfortable with how it works.

And yestravel, thanks for the link to "exciting Turkey in the throas of restoration" - really informative, I intend to keep reading. you are all great - thanks for the help

travelgourmet,

If the newspapers you are reading are telling you that every elected leader in Europe are calling Greeks names, you need to start accessing some better journalism. You honestly have no idea how stupid you look spouting what you are spouting.

All ferries between Greece and Turkey:
http://www.feribot.net/feribot/?lang=en

Thanks Neckervd, that is so helpful. any suggestions on best port in Turkey to head towards if we wanted to see Gallipoli and Ephesus? I'm still trying to get a handle on the nuances of the geography.

lauramsgarden,

Are you going to rent a car? If so, you could take the hydrofoil from Rhodes to Marmaris, then drive a few hours to Ephesus.

Alternatively, you could fly to Izmir then arrange a transfer or drive yourselves to Ephesus. As I remember it, Ephesus was under an hour from the Izmir airport.

Hi lauramsgarden,

Gallipoli is about midway between Ephesus and Istanbul. If you wish to visit both your best route would be to :

- take the ferry from the Greek island Samos to Kusadasi
- rent car in Kusadasi
- drive the 10-15 miles to Ephesus (park at top entrance, walk down, then take taxi from bottom of site to top entrance to pick your car)
- visit Selcuk museum
- visit Selcuk or any small town weekly street market if it is market day on your route. Stay night at selcuk Nazhan or Bella hotel
- take highway to Bergama, visiting the two major sites of Pergamom if you have time
- stay at a TA recommended B&B in Bergama or continue to Assos to stay at a B&B at Behramkale village or a hotel at Assos port.
- drive to Troy
- drive to Canakkkale to take ferry to Eceabat for Gallipoli
- Stay at Eceabat or at Gelibolu the night
- drive to Istanbul.


- Ephesus visit 2-3 hours
- Selcuk museum, St. John's Basilica, isa Bey Mosque 1-2 hours
- drive to Bergama 5 hours (including fuel, rest stops)
- Pergamom & Asclepion site visits 3 hours
- Drive to Assos 2-3 hours
- Sites at Assos 2 hours
- Drive to Troy ^ Troy visit 3 hours
- Drive to Canakkale, ferry queue and crossin and drive to
Gallipoli sites 2-3 hours.
- Gallipoli sites 2-3 hours
- Drive Gallipoli to Gelibolu town 1.5 hours
- Drive Gelibolu to Istanbul 4-5 hours.


This is a 3 day rushed route. If you also want some beach time, there are good locations in Kusadasi to stay instead of Selcuk, or at Cunda Island instead of Bergama and at Assos port where you can swim from June to about mid-October.

If you are in Assos beginning of July, you can check Fodors where I post the annual international philosophy conference dates and can attend some presentations.

Depending on your timing, there may be some festivals.

Driving on regular highways (not motorway) you will see frequent roadside restaurants. Some are at great spots and all will have some tasty offerings. Try the "gozleme" which is vety light flat bread filled with greens, mashed potatoe or cottage cheese, made by village women according to your wishes on large convex metal surfaces on site.

The markets at Ayvalik near Bergama are very popular with Greek visitors who come from Lesvos for shopping when the price difference warrants it (like now because of increased VAT in Greece)

On the other hand, 40,000 Turkish tourists visited the Greek islands, (mostly Lesvos, Chios, Thasos, Samos and Rhodes) on an extended weekend holiday a few weeks ago because of advantageous prices and as support to the Greek government and people against authoritarian EU posture.

On car rental :

- avoid Fiat cars. prefer Renault or Ford
- automatics are less frequent, so make double sure beforehand.
- check windshield wiper fluid at rental time.
- there are no self service petrol stations
- most petrol stations have small markets for incidentals, cold drinks, candy bars and similar but not coffee. However, many will have a tea house next to them.

What to have in car :

- a roll of paper towells
- a penknife for fruit you pick on the way
- wet wipes
- dry cat and dog food for the strays you meet.

Let us know if you have any other questions. Enjoy your planning.

Otherchelebi has, of course!, given you excellent advice.

One small quibble: I spent closer to 4 hours at Ephesus, and had to speed up at the end to see the last parts along my route before the site closed. And FWIW, although I don't normally use tour guides, I think engaging one for the Terrace Houses as Ephesus might be worth considering. JMO.

Enjoy!

Port of Ephesus: Kusadasi
Ferry port somewhat close to Gallipoli (nothing to see): Ayvalik
Gallipoli can also be reached by Metrobus from Thessaloniki: change at Kesan

oh my gosh, wonderful advice and exactly what I was looking for. I have a long day of work today, but will get back to all tomorrow. Otherchelebi - I wish we were going to be there for the conference but unfortunately will be heading home on June 23rd. My son was a philosophy/religion major in college and we have had many wonderful converstions. so looking forward to getting to know your country "on the ground."

We loved both places we stayed in at Asoos and Bergama, Assos Larga and Hera Boutique. You may read about them in our TR, http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...ern-turkey.cfm

Laura, otherchelebi has given STUNNING advice; I'm bookmarking it to recommend to others doing a Greece-to-Turkey trip. I've also recommended this good all-purpose Turkey website ... GREAT Maps ... useful for info on itineraries, busses, airlines etc. Both for getting TO turkey & travel there.

http://www.turkeytravelplanner.com/trans/index.html

travelgourmet,
The Greek nation is in the middle of a world wide public humiliation, it has just lost its Economic Sovereignty and over the next years its scheduled to sell 50 billion Euros worth of publicly owned treasures. Understandably De Nile is flooding Athens.
Are Greek people lazy.... No and they have a chance to prove it by returning to the fields to the jobs of the 180,000 Albanian guest workers who have returned home.

Thank you Travelerjan and yestravel - so helpful. So two honest questions:

1. We have found that we do best if we stay in one place for 3 -4 nights and then use that as a base to explore the region. Is there any way to do this non-Istanbul part of Turkey from a home base in a smaller town (I wouldn't want to tackle big city driving), or is moving up the coast from Kudasi to Istanbul the only intelligent way to see this area?

2. I know myself and if the driving is stressful I will be too - well stressed - to enjoy the visit. I'm pretty sure we would want to return the car before we got to Istanbul.
Can anyone give me a sense of what the roads in the itinerary so kindly laid out by Otherchelebi are like. (to give you a sense of what we are comfortable with - we did great driving around Portugal except for the 15 minutes in and out of Lisboa, and in the US I loathe the N.E. I95 corridor, but love country back roads.)

3. Another option we've had good luck with is working with local guides to handle the tougher driving bits. Would that make sense from Kudasi and if so any recommendations? Thanks as always.

"Is there any way to do this non-Istanbul part of Turkey from a home base in a smaller town"

Well, I guess that depends a lot on the parameters! If you are still talking about Ephesus, note that you might consider spending a few nights in Selcuk, from which you can visit Ephesus and Selcuk itself (great markets, among other things!) and a few other locations. Depending on your tolerance for the time it would take to get from place to place on a day trip, you might have several interesting options.

"Can anyone give me a sense of what the roads ... are like."

Since you are still fleshing out your itinerary, I won't restrict my comments to the roads you would travel if following any specific routes. I found tremendous variety in Turkish roadways: Everything from very easy-to-drive major highways (wide, well signed, well banked, etc.) to the tiniest of twisty turn-y mountain lanes. As you think through your plans, you might want to consult viamichelin.com for any hints it can give you about road conditions.

In general we found if we stuck to main roads they were as Kja described. Once we deviated to side roads conditions varied from ok to barely driveable.

The route I suggested is all on major well paved highway and/or on Motorway.

Gelibolu to Eceabat and parts of Bergama to Assos are two lanes, most of the rest are four lanes split highway when not motorway.

(make sure the rental company provides you with an HGS card or decal. for motorway from near Selcuk to Izmir and from Corlu to Istanbul)

Izmir periheral roads and the route from close to Bergama to Kucukkuyu near Assos will be congested.

Getting close to Istanbul traffic will become bad, so you can either time yourself to arrive noon to 4 PM or not visit Gallipoli but drive to Bandirma from Assos or Troy to take the Bandirma-Yenikapi ferryboat (check at ido.com)

Or, miss both Assos and Troy and srive to Bursa and Iznik from Bergama, staying one night at Iznik at our compound (see my post on Iznik-Nicaea) and take the ido ferry from Yalova to Yenikapi.

Yenikapi will be very close to all old town, Sultanahmet area, hotels and it will be a cinch to drive to your hotel.

Izmir peripheral roads are reasonably well signposted but will need you to be attentive following, Karsiyaka, etc. signs.

All roads on the route are well paved and well travelled.

It is only if you take some of the many brown posted side roads towards historic, archeological or scenic sites that you have to drive on badky paved narrow winding country roads.

Having rented and driven in most countries in Europe, almost all the states in America and in some Asian countries, I find Turkey easier than Italy, about par with Spain and France and definitely less boring than the United States.

One advantage is that you seldom come across confusing alternative routes or exits.

The disadvantage is that other drivers are extremely selfish and may disregard not only your rights but also the regulations not because they are evil or fierce but because they tend to live in a small self-contained world. And they have big egos. So do not be surprised if you find people driving on road shoulders to sneak past you at a stop light where you are waiting, or establish another non-existent lane for that purpose.

On the other hand you will be driving at locations reminding one of less developed Southern France, Corsica, Sardinia with a great deal of antiquity within easy reach.

Interesting descriptions, OC. As I said driving in Turkey was not a problem. We tend to like to find the road less explored and in Turkey and recently in Sicily we found some and they were challenging, but fun. Your next trip to US, I will need to provide you with some interesting drives! Lots of gorgeous drives in the U.S.

yestravel,

we definitely had some nice drives in the United States but they did not help us get to our destination much, when our destination was five hundred miles or more away.

Some of the routes we took in October on our trip a few years back were terrific, especially in New England. (not necessarily so in Michigan though) :
http://www.fodors.com/community/unit...rimage.cfm?122

We drove from LA to San Fransisco , most of Florida, in Georgia, Virginia, Maryland, Baltimore, Indiana, Pennsylvania, Maine, Connecticut, New Jersey, Louisiana, Nevada and Colorado also.

Before our marriage, I did NYC-Miami. Miami-Denver, Denver-LA, Denver-Chicago, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada.

It is the long hours on flat routes that get to you.