...Got a speeding ticket in Spain...
 

In Mid August we rented a car in Spain for 7 days, driving up North from Madrid and along the Northern coast.

Today I got a letter from the Spanish authorities which, as much as I can understand, is a speeding ticket for driving 62 km/h where 50 is the limit, and I suspect that limit was set only in case of rain (it did rain a bit during couple of those days)... The ticket indeed shows a photo of our rented car, taken by the speed camera. The fine is 100 Euros.

The only sentence in English is instructing me to go to their website for payment, but the tab mentioned ("Jefatura Virtual") is nowhere to be found on their web page.

So my question is, what happens if I simply ignore it?

Why would you ignore it? Do you typically cheat on debts you owe?

well there are two issues, moral and legal. Legally you may get picked up in future in Spain (if you come again), unlikely that Euro warrent will be issued for this. Morally, the issue is clear.

This question comes up again and again and is always meant with similar upbraiding by honest folks who do not understand the desire to weasel out of it. But yes if not going back to Spain just ignore it - nothing can be done I think.

Leaving the moral issue aside, won't the rental car company get involved at some point?

Wrong, possibly, again.

Posters here have begun to report this year for the first time that their traffic violations have been turned over to commercial debt collection agencies, international agencies which can harass you endlessly.

Your ticket may not come from such an enterprising community, but do you want to take the risk.

The reference department at your local public library may well be able to help you sort through the Spanish website.

I understand the desire. I asked a question about behavior and character. Most of us have desires to do things we never enact.

My dear Sandralist, I didn't post this question here to be chastised. I still know the difference between right and wrong.

If you bother to actually READ what I posted, maybe you'd notice I did go to their website, but I couldn't find the section they instruct to use for payment...

...BTW, I asked a friend of mine who got a similar ticket from the Italian authorities 6 months ago, and he had the same problem, he couldn't find a way to pay it online, and he told me he gave up and left it unpaid.

Yes, my question is not moral, of course, it is legal but also practical, wouldn't the Spanish authorities turn to the rental agency to get paid? Wouldn't the rental agency (who has my CC number) then charge me?

read this link for guidance on using the Spanish website

http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowTop...Andalucia.html

If you decide not to pay come back in a year and let us know how you got on.

Thanks, sofarsogood. Finally a practical, useful, helpful post, which is what this forum is made for.

Unless things have changed, or unless you are from a EU member country (Chicago?), you will not be able to pay the fine online since you do not have the required Spanish Identification number, which they use to add points to your drivers license. You can send a check, but you are already well past the time when they add a penalty (typically double).

Jefatura Virtual refers to "La Jefatura de Tráfico Virtual", the online site to make your payment.

You could call the Tourist Office of Spain in Chicago, (312) 642-1992, or email them ([email protected]) to see what they say.

As far as not paying and eventually returning to Spain, the only problem you might encounter is being stopped by the Guardia Civil (they issue the tickets for speeding on the nation's highways) and they happen to run a search, which would be highly unusual unless you're wanted for something a little more serious then not paying a speeding ticket.

We got a similar ticket four years ago. We sent off a Euro check to Spain, only to have it returned to us. One HAD TO pay via credit card. We went on their site, hunted and pecked for a while, and finally the payment part came up and In English !

BTW, they will now be collecting fines for motor violations across borders for EU citizens. If you read Spanish, go to autopista.es for details.

UPDATE: Reading the guidance on TripAdvisor, the link sofarsogood was so kind to post here, I followed the instructions (though the site changed a bit since 2012) and was able to reach the proper page to type the appropriate info and then go to the next page for the credit card information. The charge was still at its 50% reduction rate, so now I owe 50 Euros only.

For future reference, the URL one can jump directly to is:

https://sedeapl.dgt.gob.es:7443/WEB_...ionPagador.jsf

BUT, turns out this site is unsafe, the message Chrome is posting says the certificate is not secured and somebody may be able to steel my information...

...I'm still wondering what's my next step....

In addition, if you paid your fine within 30 days, the amount was halved. Even tho' this happened in August, you just got the letter so the 30 day period applies.

Please note:

To qualify to post on these boards you must have never have broken any law, paid every cent ever owed to the IRS, looked for the owner for every found dime, never cheated on an exam, and most of all be self-righteous and unforgiving.

Statistically it is quite remarkable that such a group of singular and scrupulously honest has gathered at this time on its own.

Yes, IMDonehere, I've noticed that. I really don't belong here. I should be beheaded. It's very in now.

BTW, the more I try digging information from the ticket, I found the exact place where I committed the crime... Thanks to Google Street-View (one of the best innovations of the 21st century), and comparing it to the photograph of my rented Golf —— I actually located the EXACT spot :

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.3284...ZYaKZ_UDBA!2e0

One can see how short the distance is between the 70 km/h sign and the 50... My car was photographed traveling at 62 next to the 2nd, old, gray building, when one enters this tiny village, probably 70 feet beyond the 50 km/h sign....

We should send the Marines to take over Madrid.

This European ticket business has had quite a play on this board recently. I received a ticket for speeding in Germany, and I had a h*ll of a time paying it.

They sent me a couple of letters, with the second one threatening me with a lawyer. I wouldn't have hesitated to pay it, but I couldn't figure out how to do it. When I tried to wire transfer, the bank couldn't do it. I finally sent euros in registered letters to both the traffic agency and my car rental company.

So far, so good. No lawyer has shown up, so I assume my cash arrived where it was supposed to arrive.

I think that when one doesn't realize one is breaking the speed limit, it's tempting to feel that one is innocent and therefore should not have to pay.

My advice would be to go ahead and do it.

Your experience is quite similar to ours, but in Huesca, when we turned a corner on the N-240 at 110 kph, only to have the speed drop to 70 kph (the sign was hidden behind the bushes from the photos posted online) for about 100 meters and then pop back up to 110 kph. When I researched the location of the speed trap, there where at least 400 complaints, mostly from locals.

In fact they have already tracked you down through the rental agency. If you don;t respond and they decide to track you further they can in fact charge you through the rental agency which has your credit card info. And if you don't pay now the cost will only increase as penalties are added to the original fine - which IMHO is quite low for speeding - our parking tickets are more than that.

I don't know if they will go to this much trouble - but they are certainly able to do it. And it may live in the computer system of the car rental company.

I recently had the same problems in The Netherlands and Belgium and now my picture is posted at every school so the children know who to avoid.

I'm willing to pay 50 Euro, but am concerned about the message I got about their site not being secured.

I don't mind my picture posted, as long as they spell my name right.

Yes, the website's certificate is far out of date. Possibly a factor of budget restrictions or some other cause. Personally, I would forget about it and let one of those self-righteous, unforgiving soles take care of it for you.

Perhaps the Spanish and, in my case Italian, authorities will track us down after someone leaks the news that so many Unregistered Traffic Offenders are gathering on this forum.

I don't particularly feel obligated to pay. I'm not ashamed of my sin or feel like a criminal. Those speed limit signs could have been placed at double the distance, easy... I'm sure the locals do know exactly at what spot to adjust their speed. But I'm willing to spend another 50 Euros into this wonderful trip we had, as long as I can trust that site with my CC number... So the question here is -- again -- pure practical, forget morals, forget legalities, how safe I should feel next time (which in our case is a matter of years, not months) landing again in Europe...

I got a parking ticket in Gent, earlier this year, and the owner of the B & B Snooz Inn first tried to quash it and then paid it and I sent him the cash, although he never requested it. It is also a spectacular place to stay and consistently gets high ratings on all the travel sites.

When we first went to Spain, Franco was still alive and the Guardia Civil were as cruel and brutish as any police force. Maybe they are in charge of parking tickets today.

>When we first went to Spain, Franco was still alive and the Guardia Civil were as cruel and brutish as any police force. Maybe they are in charge of parking tickets today.<

How the world, and Spain, have changed since the final days of Generalissimo Francisco Franco (still dead) - 1975.

Some corrections/additional information to the posts above:
One can pay one line a fine, even if you are not a Spanish resident.

Read the article from TA it is informative helps a lot.
Speed camera locations are well known. There is a DGT (Spanish government department) website which gives the locations.
http://www.dgt.es/es/el-trafico/control-de-velocidad/
The Spanish are very kind and do give warnings on fixed radar locations. This photo.
http://www.autopista.es/media/cache/...571195e961.jpg
The first one warns of a black spot area where a lot of accidents occur. The second one gives a warning of the radar. This is the one to watch out for.
The problem is you can get mobile detectors and now they use helicopters too.
All GPS come with radar warnings and these can be updated plus have sites of frequencies used mobile radar locations if you do a webs search for POIs.
You can also download apps for your phone which will give you locations of radars.
The actual use of radar detectors is now illegal in Spain.
http://www.motorpasion.com/seguridad...-radar-en-2014
Which is odd why El Corte Inglés still sells them
http://www.elcorteingles.es/tienda/e...999.1297856330

My GPS (Garmin) gave precise warning of both upcoming fixed and mobile speed cameras in Spain, which in case of fixed camera locations were repeated on road signs. I also noticed that local drivers slowed down conspicuously at certain locations so indicated but not at others, so they may have known which system was live.
In my experience, since the rental company isn't liable to pay the fine but you as the driver, they don't do so and then charge it to your card. What they do is to pass on your details to the authorities when they receive the fine and charge you for the (in)convenience (typically 25-30 euro). So any fine you pay will be in addition.

I can't tell you about that website, but the certificate being out of date does not always mean the website is insecure. IN fact, believe it or not, I do consulting to the Dept of Defense and have to do annual online training about privacy issues, and their online training website has a bad certificate which always turns up an error.

It is helpful to have a dedicated credit card with a low limit (&1000) for this sort of situation. If it is compromised the bad guys don't get much!! I would just pay it at the unsecured site and monitor my credit card on line, which I do anyway.

I got another idea, buy one of those gift-card CC, load it with $100 (ok, it would cost me another couple bucks) that will be more than enough for paying the 50 Euro fine. I can always use the leftover at any store.

Or am I wrong?

For my speeding ticket, I went to my bank and paid a hefty fee for international money transfer.

We are always traveling and I never know if I shall return to Belgium and The Netherlands.

But after many years of renting and reading more and more of these stories, I am now less likely to rent a car in any European country.

To be quite honest I am really surprised that there is not more posting about receiving fines from France or the UK
France: The GPS or website are not allowed to publish information on camera locations. There are no roadside warnings about locations either.
The UK: They have the greatest number of roadside cameras per length of road than any other European country. A greater chance of obtaining a nice souvenir.

The GPS or website are not allowed to publish information on camera locations: Right as far as GPS is concerned, but wrong re websites : http://www.radars-auto.com/carte-radar/

"There are no roadside warnings about locations either."
This is not correct, the law has changed : http://www.ladepeche.fr/article/2013...rtisseurs.html

After a few decades of driving in Europe and a few 10K miles behind the wheel in the US, I think there is still a bit of different driving "psychology" on either side of the pond.
The "crime scene" which mamamia posted via Google streetview is pretty typical for a speed limit funnel.
If you are somewhat accustomed to driving in Europe, you will probably subconciously regard the first limit (70 kph) more as an advance warning to actually decrease your speed to 50 kph as you see that there is a village coming up. And in built-up areas, the speed limit is 50 in Spain by default.
I will not go so far to say that no local will ignore or not notice the signs, but it is more or less a "standard situation".
I am no expert on American driving regulations, but the way my friends in the US drive it seems that they often translate actual speed limits or other road signs into more vague prescriptions like "slow down", "drive carefully" or "everybody goes a little faster here".
While your local sheriff may be satisfied if you gradually decrease your speed after you passed the 45mph sign, the speed cameras in Spain or Sweden will remain unimpressed with your "good intention".
You will incur ticket after ticket unless you memorize that the speed limit sign tells you how fast you may go exactly where the sign is posted. And not one meter behind it (even though in reality most cameras are posted a *few* meters behind it).

Pvoyageuse Thank you for the information
I wonder just how legal the website is? They do list various detectors even though they are illegal in France
http://www.radars-auto.com/avertisse...dars/autonome/
I drove through France just last January and never saw any warning signs. They all have disappeared, or so it looked to me. I travel basically the same route each year.
Besides what happened to those black silhouettes which indicated road accident deaths?

I find Cowboy1968's post very interesting indeed--I think he's right, there are unspoken understandings and assumptions about driving regulations that locals know instinctively and visitors violate at their peril.

mammamia2, I am no expert here, but it seems to me that you could take a chance and use one of your less critically important cards, and then do as jane1144 says and monitor it daily online. If you don't have a card you're willing to sort of retire temporarily, I think your gift card idea is great.

"I wonder just how legal the website is? They do list various detectors even though they are illegal in France
http://www.radars-auto.com/avertisseurs-radars/autonome/"
They list which detectors are compatible with the law and which aren't.

"I drove through France just last January and never saw any warning signs. They all have disappeared, or so it looked to me."
I drive in France every day and I assure you that where I live we have a delightful mixture of warning signs/no warning signs/unmarked police cars with a radar inside !

Besides what happened to those black silhouettes which indicated road accident deaths?
If you read French : "Les opérations silhouettes noires, sont des opérations ponctuelles, réalisées dans les départements, selon décision des préfectures, et en partenariat avec la collectivité gestionnaire de la route (DDE)."