Gretchen
Athens is a short flight away from Rome, while going by train from Berlin to Venice would last 14 hours :)

As you can see, everyone has a view of what the must see places are in Europe. Only you know what your must see places are.

My only advice is that you leave some room for flexibility. You never know when you might meet that perfect Dutch girl (or guy) who will totally change your priorities. A trip like this could change your life.

/clausar, fine with me. I am only bringing up the time it takes getting to and from airports, etc. I have nothing to say about Berlin-Venice, etc.
I agree with Grasshopper--flexibility counts on an extended trip like this!!
And on a trip to Greece I did meet some folks to travel with which was fun.
Actually an Adriatic cruise from Dubrovnik to Piraeus is fun--then go back to Italy?
Maybe longer in Greece and see some islands?

Clausar said ( and then comments follow)


'menachem why would you drop Athens?Personally i would drop Berlin and Lyon'

So it's okay for you to suggest droppijg Berlin and Lyon but not okay for menachem to suggest dropping Athens?


' I happen to live there, so i know what i am talking about.'

You have an opinion - that is all. At least menachem acknowledges his

'Athens is a short flight away from Rome, while going by train from Berlin to Venice would last 14 hours '

And Rome to Athens is a far more than 14 hours by train while Berlin to Venice is a short flight too. Not much of a point you are making. Compare apples to apples.

'My city is better than your city' commentary is not very enlightening to the OP I dont think.

I think it was perfectly reasonable for clausar to respond to menachem's totally inaccurate statement: <i>"It's not a very stable place at the moment."</i>

This summer there have been violent protests in cities from Stockholm to Sao Paulo (and several in between) but nothing of the sort in Athens. In what way is Greece unstable?

There may be valid reasons for dropping Athens, but that isn't one of them.

Aramis

Once again i read statements about Athens, that are absolutely not true.
Living in the city gives me one more reason to correct them, especially when they are not true.

If you looked at the itinerary of the OP,the plan is to take the train from Berlin to Venice, which would last 14 hours at least.
Compared to that a 2 hours flight between Rome and Athens is a short flight.

Finally, there are no trains between Rome and Athens.....

heimdall and clausar - ignore it. Aramis simply looks for posts to complain about. Seldom gives advice - mainly carps about what other fodorites post.

Jus_taryn: You've alloted a fair amount of time to most places. But it is still a pretty fast paced itinerary. Stopping in cities for 2 to 5 days over 3 weeks is one thing. But doing it city after city after city for 2 months could get very tiring. I <i>might</i> think about cutting one or two of your destinations and working in one longer stop somewhere. But as it is you do have a reasonable time in most places . . .

This search wasn't hard;

http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/...ts_853540.html

http://www.bdlive.co.za/world/europe...ate-tv-closure

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3453480.html

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/gre...&NewsCatID=351

Menachem didn't say it was worse than any place else he just said it was happening. Perhaps the word "stable" conjured up different ideas of the situation for him that it did for you. I wouldn't have used it, but stating that it is not so simply because you live there and therefore know the "truth" doesn't seem quite accurate either.

Of course you can get to Athens from Rome by train. My comparison probably strayed from addressing Gretchen's comments to which you objected; Naples - Athens - Madrid does indeed seem like a long way to go for 3 days. 1:40 to Athens, then 5:55 to Madrid using the best (by far) connection. To be fair that makes Madrid and Berlin long isolated legs, too.

With an itinerary this well thought out (flying and train legs already considered) I presume that the OP is well aware of the train time from Berlin to Venice and perhaps even wants to take the train. There is an overnight through Munich that turns it into a time saving leg.

You didn't address my comment about you being comfortable giving advice for the OP to drop Berlin and Lyon as opposed to Athens. Would it be useful if someone who loved Lyon entered the thread insisting on knowing why you suggested Lyon be dropped? I don't really like Paris. If someone wants to get all excited in defence of it and tell me how wrong my reasons are or how I don't understand it, it would be a waste of time. Travel is about as subjective as food and romance. We like what we like.

I generally don't think it is useful when people take a "Do what I did - you'll love it!" or "My choice of destination is better than yours" or "how dare you criticize something I like!" approach to giving advice. It's like thinking people are going to love watching your home movies (sorry for the old technology reference there - "Smartphone videos" didn't sound right).

Just trying to open up some dialogue on the issue janisj - if you choose to misrepresent my forum participation through generalizations and pejorative language, enjoy.

I think some of your transport is poorly chosen. Between some of your cities, you can take budget airlines cheaper than train (and much faster). It also doesn't make sense to waste your days on long bus rides. For budget airlines:
www.whichbudget.com
www.skyscanner.com

>>>I added up bus/train fare that would be best<<<

Not possible that far in advance. You've no clue what buses/trains/prices/discounts will be available a year from now. That includes possible flights/discounts. Even major airlines don't book more than 10 months out and budget airlines even less.

If you are flying from the US, it makes more sense to fly to your furthest point and start your trip there, working your way back. I would also want to be more north in August than in Spain, Italy, Athens where it will be much hotter.

Why would it make more sense to fly to the farthest point and work back rather than flying to the closest point end then flying home from the farthest destination? Six of one, half dozen of another really

Aramis, one of the things I enjoy about posts tagged only for Greece is that most replies come from people genuinely trying to help the traveller. Threads seldom dissolve into arguments, as you seem to be attempting with your "Just trying to open up some dialogue on the issue..." That's why I seldom reply to posts tagged for multiple countries. :-(

ttt