Getting the best our of Europe
 

Okay so I'm sure there are plenty forums of people asking is exact question but they aren't easy to find. I have planned out most of my trip to Europe around just a random day. I got really anal with it and created a mock schedule that I would use next year when I went on my trip. I started on July 20th and worked my way to August 19th (62 days). With this schedule I'll celebrate the 4th of July in Venice. Which I'm looking forward to but if someone can figure out a different route that includes a large city during this time I am open to your opinion.

Here are the list of cities that I plan on visting in order:


London (6 days) bus to
Amersterdam (3 days) bus to
Berlin (2 days) train to
Venice (4 days) fly to
Dubrovnik (4 days) fly back to (trust me this is the best way I found)
Venice (1 day) train to
Florence (5 days {including day trips}) train to
Pisa (day trip)
Fiesole (day trip)
Rome (6 days) train to
Naples (3 days) fly to
Athens (3 days) fly to
Madrid (5 Days) train to
Barcelona (4 days) train to
Nice (3 days) train to
Lyon (3 days) train to
Paris (6 days) Fly back home


These are the cities that I've always wanted to visit but I also want to have tons of fun during my trip. I wanted to do stuff like the bull run in Spain. The tomatina tomato fight even. My degree is in psychology and I love people watching and meeting new people. Which is why I want the large crowd/party atmosphere.

I added up bus/train fare that would be best. I've created a route that would help me work around a particular rail pass and included the plane to and from the states. My total without local transportation would be ~$3,500 US. I want the 10 day pass within 2 months. I figured my 2 months wont start until I connect Berlin to Venice. That's about $1721 with out my flight to and from the states.

My housing would be hostel and that comes up to ~$1,950 US. I'm not opposed to couchsurfing.com I just haven't gotten around to looking at it yet. I just went on hostelworld.com and got an average from each city for a bed in a hostel. I've included overnight trains/buses when ever I could.

Only thing I need to factor in is 1.Food 2.Partying 3. Tourist attractions 4. Local transportation and then relook at my housing.

What I need from you guys is an expert eye on what I have already.
--Do you see something that I need to change/
--Are there any festivals/events during the summer that you feel I MUST go to? I want the summer because I want to lay on the beach when I can and enjoy forigen summer nights.
--Regardless of all that do you think I should push back my trip more to go to events like Oktoberfest (or anything similar)?
--Are there any of your favorite party spots that are in these cities or close by?
I tired looking and I was unsuccessful in finding a list of "top European events for the summer" I'm open to extending my trip also. I just felt that each city got its right amount of time plus travel days.

Let me know if you have any questions, Thanks

Sorry for any typos and if it doesn't make sense in areas. I've been up ALL night working on this

I'd move Athens and also recognise you are in the south in July/August (it gets a tad warm)

It looks like you are satisfied with the logistics (Berlin to Venice is a loooong train ride), so I will just offer one opinion on the allotment of time at each location.

3 days in Naples vs only 2 days in Berlin seems like it goes against your youthful people watching aims. Unless you have some specific things you want to see and do in Naples, I would trade all of those days to Berlin.

I assume you mean that you will begin your trip June 20, not July 20. With the exception of Dubrovnik, Barcelona and Nice you won't be near the beach so you might want to plan some day trips for that purpose. You are leaving enough time in many places to get to know the cities. You do not seem to include countryside but perhaps that is intentional.

I'm not sure why it would make any difference where you were on the 4th of July. No one in Europe except maybe a few expats cares.

Otherwise, it looks like a sensible trip, very city-heavy and as noted not much of anywhere conducive to lying on beaches, but a reasonable allotment of time to the various places.

I added up bus/train fare that would be best. I've created a route that would help me work around a particular rail pass and included the plane to and from the states>

for lots of great info on European trains I always spotlight these fine sources - www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.rickstevees.com www.seat61.com (good info on discounted tickets that however are generally non-changeable and non-refundable and are sold in limited numbers so must be booked in stone often months in advance. A railpass if you are under 26 - the Youthpass can be very cheap - if over 25 then a Eurailpass comes in first class which also has benefits - full fare tickets can be very expensive so be sure to try to do the discounted ticket route or you walk up fares could well be more than some kind of pass, especially if it is a Youthpass.

Sounds like a fun trip. Barcelona to Nice sounds like one it would be worth it to fly.

Agree - where you are on the 4th of July is really immaterial - since nothing special will be happening - that I know of.

And to me you are bouncing back and froth too much - instead of doing a more straight line or circular trip.

Hi J,

Not bad. Tiring, but not bad.

Are you sure about visiting Athens?

((I))

Why so much negativity towards Athens?

It's a lot, but it seems like what you are going for.

Given your interests, you're selling Berlin WAY short compared to some of the other locations (like Naples or Lyon) which seem less compelling. Berlin is a fun huge youthful metropolis and 2 days is paltry considering the fact that you're giving a nearly a week to Nice and Lyon. If that is one overnight in Berlin, you'd barely be able to scratch the surface of that city.

Ditch Lyon, and perhaps Nice, Madrid can be 3 days, add 2 days to Barcelona, try to get 4 days for Berlin. Athens: I'd drop it.

menachem why would you drop Athens?
Personally i would drop Berlin and Lyon

Berlin is infinitely more interesting than Athens (personal opinion)

Also, there's a lot of strive and misery in Athens, at the moment, due to the economic crisis and austerity measures. It's not a very stable place at the moment.

menachem

There is no misery in Athens, and if you say that it is not a very stable place at the moment, then it is obvious to me that you have no idea about the city.

I happen to live there, so i know what i am talking about.

Menachem, when were you last in Athens?

I just see a lot of travel and not much time for "lying on the beach"--or even people watching. Well, not entirely true--you do have nice lengths of time in some places. You are flying a lot of places--good for distances, maybe not so good for time to get to and from airports, customs, etc. Time eater.
I LOVE Athens, and have heard from people lately who have been and it is not unstable. BUT it is a long way to go for 3 days. And a back and forth from Dubrovnik.
three days in Lyon?

I completely disagree - Athens is a lovely city, very underestimated I found! Full of life, lovely people, great sites...sure there are some problems there but as a tourist I didnt feel it other than people talking. Obviously avoid the main square if there is a protest, but thats just common sense. I highly recommend 3 days in Athens!

Gretchen
Athens is a short flight away from Rome, while going by train from Berlin to Venice would last 14 hours :)

As you can see, everyone has a view of what the must see places are in Europe. Only you know what your must see places are.

My only advice is that you leave some room for flexibility. You never know when you might meet that perfect Dutch girl (or guy) who will totally change your priorities. A trip like this could change your life.

/clausar, fine with me. I am only bringing up the time it takes getting to and from airports, etc. I have nothing to say about Berlin-Venice, etc.
I agree with Grasshopper--flexibility counts on an extended trip like this!!
And on a trip to Greece I did meet some folks to travel with which was fun.
Actually an Adriatic cruise from Dubrovnik to Piraeus is fun--then go back to Italy?
Maybe longer in Greece and see some islands?

Clausar said ( and then comments follow)


'menachem why would you drop Athens?Personally i would drop Berlin and Lyon'

So it's okay for you to suggest droppijg Berlin and Lyon but not okay for menachem to suggest dropping Athens?


' I happen to live there, so i know what i am talking about.'

You have an opinion - that is all. At least menachem acknowledges his

'Athens is a short flight away from Rome, while going by train from Berlin to Venice would last 14 hours '

And Rome to Athens is a far more than 14 hours by train while Berlin to Venice is a short flight too. Not much of a point you are making. Compare apples to apples.

'My city is better than your city' commentary is not very enlightening to the OP I dont think.

I think it was perfectly reasonable for clausar to respond to menachem's totally inaccurate statement: <i>"It's not a very stable place at the moment."</i>

This summer there have been violent protests in cities from Stockholm to Sao Paulo (and several in between) but nothing of the sort in Athens. In what way is Greece unstable?

There may be valid reasons for dropping Athens, but that isn't one of them.

Aramis

Once again i read statements about Athens, that are absolutely not true.
Living in the city gives me one more reason to correct them, especially when they are not true.

If you looked at the itinerary of the OP,the plan is to take the train from Berlin to Venice, which would last 14 hours at least.
Compared to that a 2 hours flight between Rome and Athens is a short flight.

Finally, there are no trains between Rome and Athens.....

heimdall and clausar - ignore it. Aramis simply looks for posts to complain about. Seldom gives advice - mainly carps about what other fodorites post.

Jus_taryn: You've alloted a fair amount of time to most places. But it is still a pretty fast paced itinerary. Stopping in cities for 2 to 5 days over 3 weeks is one thing. But doing it city after city after city for 2 months could get very tiring. I <i>might</i> think about cutting one or two of your destinations and working in one longer stop somewhere. But as it is you do have a reasonable time in most places . . .

This search wasn't hard;

http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/...ts_853540.html

http://www.bdlive.co.za/world/europe...ate-tv-closure

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3453480.html

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/gre...&NewsCatID=351

Menachem didn't say it was worse than any place else he just said it was happening. Perhaps the word "stable" conjured up different ideas of the situation for him that it did for you. I wouldn't have used it, but stating that it is not so simply because you live there and therefore know the "truth" doesn't seem quite accurate either.

Of course you can get to Athens from Rome by train. My comparison probably strayed from addressing Gretchen's comments to which you objected; Naples - Athens - Madrid does indeed seem like a long way to go for 3 days. 1:40 to Athens, then 5:55 to Madrid using the best (by far) connection. To be fair that makes Madrid and Berlin long isolated legs, too.

With an itinerary this well thought out (flying and train legs already considered) I presume that the OP is well aware of the train time from Berlin to Venice and perhaps even wants to take the train. There is an overnight through Munich that turns it into a time saving leg.

You didn't address my comment about you being comfortable giving advice for the OP to drop Berlin and Lyon as opposed to Athens. Would it be useful if someone who loved Lyon entered the thread insisting on knowing why you suggested Lyon be dropped? I don't really like Paris. If someone wants to get all excited in defence of it and tell me how wrong my reasons are or how I don't understand it, it would be a waste of time. Travel is about as subjective as food and romance. We like what we like.

I generally don't think it is useful when people take a "Do what I did - you'll love it!" or "My choice of destination is better than yours" or "how dare you criticize something I like!" approach to giving advice. It's like thinking people are going to love watching your home movies (sorry for the old technology reference there - "Smartphone videos" didn't sound right).

Just trying to open up some dialogue on the issue janisj - if you choose to misrepresent my forum participation through generalizations and pejorative language, enjoy.

I think some of your transport is poorly chosen. Between some of your cities, you can take budget airlines cheaper than train (and much faster). It also doesn't make sense to waste your days on long bus rides. For budget airlines:
www.whichbudget.com
www.skyscanner.com

>>>I added up bus/train fare that would be best<<<

Not possible that far in advance. You've no clue what buses/trains/prices/discounts will be available a year from now. That includes possible flights/discounts. Even major airlines don't book more than 10 months out and budget airlines even less.

If you are flying from the US, it makes more sense to fly to your furthest point and start your trip there, working your way back. I would also want to be more north in August than in Spain, Italy, Athens where it will be much hotter.

Why would it make more sense to fly to the farthest point and work back rather than flying to the closest point end then flying home from the farthest destination? Six of one, half dozen of another really

Aramis, one of the things I enjoy about posts tagged only for Greece is that most replies come from people genuinely trying to help the traveller. Threads seldom dissolve into arguments, as you seem to be attempting with your "Just trying to open up some dialogue on the issue..." That's why I seldom reply to posts tagged for multiple countries. :-(

ttt