Getting around in Tuscany
 

My wife and I have always wanted to visit Tuscany and I am planning it for our 25th anniversary trip next September. I am researching places to stay but one aspect I am not clear on is just how easy it is to get around (or how necessary).

My goal is pretty simple for that part of our trip - I want to wallow in the beauty of Tuscany countryside and relax :) But I also can't imagine just sticking around at the hotel for the duration.

We are not really drinkers so wine tours are "OK" but not particularly interesting (maybe just one might be interesting). Would one generally need to hire a car to explore a little or are there other options? Given my goals, are there specific areas/regions I might want to consider?

I plan to have a hotel for three nights.

Thanks.

Mark

Yes, there are other options depending on exactly where you want to visit. You could rent a car; some places are accessible by bus and or rail. But hiring a car and driver might very well be more relaxing for you.

IMO you can wallow just about anywhere in Tuscany...how about being a bit more specific other than saying you aren't wine drinkers. For example, do you like churches, unusual architecture, countryside views and vistas, etc.?

Have you read about any place in Tuscany that interests you and for that matter why Tuscany as opposed to other regions?

I got my first Tuscan wallowing fix at Hotel Santa Caterina in Sienna. It's outside the Porto Romano, an easy walk to Sienna's famous campo and all the shops and restaurants in Sienna, but has a wonderful back garden that looks over the Tuscan countryside. I loved eating my breakfasts there and sitting in the afternoons reading, writing or dreaming. From there you could take the bus or train to visit other Tuscan towns. But three nights you could easily fill in Sienna alone.

The next time we did the Tuscan countryside thing is was a little apartment at a working winery near Montalcino. But for that you need a car and a week at least.

Well, maybe start by reading Tuscany on the Destinations section of Fodors. Also look at some photos. I sometimes use Google Images or a google map with the photos option on to get a rough idea of what a few places look like.

Popular areas of Tuscany, especially on the forum, are the Val d'Orcia and Chianti.

I do think you need a car if you want to have a relaxing time in the countryside. I would not want to stay in a town and tour by bus for three days. However, lots of people hire drivers to tour during the day. Expensive but I guess somewhat carefree and relaxing.

Definitely read some Tuscany trip reports on this forum. You will probably get at least a few good responses to your post.

I would rent a car. Driving is easy and you could get into some very interesting parts of Tuscany.

To the OP:

It would be helpful if you responded, Mark...people REALLY want to help and it is hard to do if we don't get a little feedback even if it is a simple "thank you."

We rented an apartment in Montefioralle [ an old village near Greve en Chianti ] for a week in 2010. It was a great base to explore the region, but, yes you do need a car. If wine is not a priority and you do not need to worry about being over the limit, then get a car. Stay out of Florence, but close enough to do a day trip [ or two ] and then explore the area. Now I have re-read your post and see you only have three nights [ two days ]. Where else are you planning to go ?? before and after. Three nights is not really long enough to do anything.

Hire bicycles and get out on the road

With only 3 nights, Grasshopper's suggestion sounds ideal. You won't need a car for that. I would consider borrowing one day from the 5 you have for Rome or Venice and adding a day to Tuscany. With 4 nights, I might consider an agritourismo and a car and spending a bit of time touring Tuscany to see its beauty and visit some of its villages and towns.

Read some trip reports for ideas and let us know what you decide. We can help with details.

Thank you for the responses. As a reminder, Tuscany will be the middle part of our trip. Rome will be fascinating and busy and packing in a lot. At the other end, Lake Como will be beautiful and will probably include some driving around to explore the area. Tuscany - is about the pure wallow!

I am a sucker for peace and quite and tranquility and civility and history and - a time to reflect. After 25 years of glorious marriage, this part of the trip will be as much about the reflection as the celebration. And my initial research - and the comments I find here - suggest I couldn't find a better place to take a breath and think back on our 25 years together.

I am also a sucker for stunning countryside (I miss the English countryside a great deal). Again, I reckon this is as good as I could expect to find. I see three elements.

1. A beautiful, rustic place to stay with tremendous hospitality and where we are made to feel special.

2. A view - somewhere where we can just sit overlooking a spectacular and peaceful scene, with a glass of wine, a book and hopefully the sun.

3. Some minor side trips. I'm not talking big day trips (the other parts of the trip will keep us busy). I'm talking about a tour of a winery, maybe a short cooking class, perhaps see some art, etc. I also wouldn't mind being near the coast, although that is not essential.

The key point is that our activities won't be all-consuming. The Rome and Lake Como elements will have the sightseeing opportunities. This part is about just relaxing, albeit with just a couple of minor things to do. Another way to consider this is that I am more interested in the countryside than the cities (I understand Pisa is near Florence but that doesn't particularly draw me, for example).

I am almost certain that we will rent a car. We like the freedom to decide as we go, so the idea of renting a car with a driver isn't a good fit for us, plus I'd want the car for multiple days. I almost never drink, so the only time that would be a factor is when / if we go on a tour of a winery. That could either be the one where we stay or I will find some other transportation.

I plan to spend three nights in Tuscany, but may swing to four possibly based on some of your comments. I am also researching the idea of an agritourismo (new word for me :)).

Thanks again. I really appreciate the comments.

Mark

You don't need a car to explore Lake Como. Visiting numerous lakeside cities by boat is not only easy, it's far more convenient than doing so by car. I've been celebrating my birthday every year on Lake Como for many years now. Sometimes I rent a car (to explore higher up), often I don't. Not needing a car is one of the reasons I love to visit this special place.

I've also been to Tuscany many times. (Couldn't imagine a trip to Italy and not enjoying great wine.) It would never occur to me to visit Tuscany without a car. Driving around Tuscany, visiting the charming small towns and seeing the fabulous countryside, is half the fun. Being stuck on some hotel grounds for three days in Tuscany is NOT the way to enjoy this lush area.

Now, if your idea of a Tuscan visit is 3 nights in Florence, or 3 nights in Siena, then yes, you don't need a car to do that.

Your need for a car depends on what you actually want to see. If you've never been before, you won't really know what you want to see until you see it.

I've never heard anyone say he/she regretted renting a car in Tuscany. But I have heard people say a car was a waste and a hassle on Lake Como.

>>>I am also researching the idea of an agritourismo <<<

Agriturismo are more what you will find in the countryside than hotels. Many will only rent by the week in season.

If you want the Tuscany you see in postcards, it is usually southern Tuscany (area around Pienza/Montalcino/Montepulciano.

After looking at your other thread, I don't think you are factoring in the time it takes to get from Rome to somewhere in Tuscany and then on to Lake Como. Three nights in Tuscany or Como only gives you two actual days.

My experience after several trips without a car was:

A train is fine for larger towns but you need to find out distance from the station to the city center;

A bus is inexpensive and fine for smaller towns but is more timed for commuters and students than tourists;

A hired driver is a luxury and the best way to do it so you can let someone else find the town and then a parking space;

A van tour can be super if you have a good guide and compatible travelers.

'Google' hill towns in Tuscany and Umbria and see what comes up. My late husband and I were more trip oriented and wanted towns with good train connections so my choices wouldn't be yours. We LOVED Spoleto, Orvieto and Perugia FWIW.

Fiesole near Florence might suit you and be just a bus ride from Florence.

Hope you do a trip report!

ps-Yes, check distance to Lake Como area--you'll lose <i>at least</i> 1/2 day to travel.

So, I'm fine tuning this part of our trip. I always planned to have a car while in Tuscany so that part, at least, is an easy choice. I think I have found a great place too (although, as ever, eager to hear comments if anyone has any thoughts).

I am considering this place: http://www.lacortedeipapi.com/. It's in the Cortona. Based on my very early research this area looks like what I have in my minds eye of Tuscany. See the pictures under Territory here, for example: http://www.lacortedeipapi.com/photogallery.aspx.

Anyway, if a little more digging about the area and the hotel hold up I may well have closed on the middle part of our trip.

Oh by the way, I'm extending the Tuscany part to four nights - again, based on comments here.

Thanks everyone.

Mark

The Lake Como part of your trip will be the most relaxing, traveling around the lake by ferry, lunch in different villages around the lake. You need a car in Tuscany; after several trips there, I can't imagine not having one. It will still be relaxing and a car will make it more so as you won't have a schedule dictated to you by buses and trains.

I love La Corte dei Papi. Cortona is an interesting base because it's very close to Umbria. You'll be able to visit Perugia, which I love. This is not a super busy area. With a car, you'll hate to stop exploring. There's so much to see and it's all LOVELY.

Having been to Tuscany many times now, and stayed in various parts of the county, I must add my two cents and say that for first time visitors, my choice would be the Val d'Orcia area. This includes towns such as Montalcino, Pienza, Montepulciano. Cortona is beautiful but would not be my first choice to stay. A lovely agriturismo with several different types of accomodations that we have stayed and loved is Sant'Antonio :

http://www.santantonio.it/

Enjoy your celebration !!

>>>Based on my very early research this area looks like what I have in my minds eye of Tuscany.<<<

It's not the area you see on postcards, etc. It's southeast of Cortona, almost Umbria instead of Tuscany with a more rustic lanscape. It depends on what you wanted to visit in Tuscany as you are going to be at the far east edge.

would you be intending to eat in every night? if so, i think I'd want to know what I was going to be eating. the website of la corte del papa gives me no clue whatever as to what is available and what it costs. perhaps the guests who stay there have bottomless pockets.

if you are thinking however that you might like to eat elsewhere, how far is it from other restaurants? if you are wine lovers, it's worth remembering that one of you will have to drive home. The advantage of the sort of hotel mentioned by grasshopper upthread is that you have the dual advantages of the views and feel of the countryside, but also of being able to walk into the town for eating and drinking.

It's true, Cortona is not in the heart of Chianti, which delivers a singular characteristic look called "Tuscan." But Multipulciano and the surrounding hillsides offer similar "Tuscan" views. La Corte dei Papi is southeast of Cortona by less than 4 miles, and Montepulciano is just 20 miles away. It's not as if the glorious colors of a Tuscan landscape disappear the second you cross into Umbria. Certainly, many of the postcards sold in Cortona of the surrounding area show "Tuscan" views from the area.

Cortona figures prominently in Frances Mayes' book, "Under the Tuscan Sun." But long before the book's fame, Cortona was known as a classic Tuscan hill town. It's known for its beautiful perch and views, its early Etruscan settlements (the ruins are still visible), and art lovers know that Cortona is home to Renaissance painter Luca Signorelli, Baroque master Pietro da Cortona (Berretini), and the 20th-century Futurist artist Gino Severini.

Val d'Orcia, Montalcino, Pienza, Montepulciano are indeed lovely and more popular, especially with tourists who don't wish to drive "too far" or expand their exploration beyond a 30-minute drive. But I would argue, if you have good navigation skills and a strong sense of adventure, the area around Cortona offers a ton of diversity. You can take a morning and explore Perugia, and take an afternoon and explore Montepulciano. And then take another morning and explore Siena and another afternoon to visit Val d'Orcia.

The winding, beautiful hillside roads may turn a 20-mile drive into a 45-minute excursion, but, for me, the pleasure of driving further in new territory far outweighs the inconvenience of taking a wrong turn and the challenge of setting a correct course. Simply start your day very early, and plan on being closer to home near sunset.

annhig, I agree there could be a little more information about the restaurant on their web site but the food pictures at least look OK :) Honestly, although the hotel restaurant is something of a factor I certainly wouldn't avoid the hotel based on that. The reviews I have read are very positive (http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Rev...o_Tuscany.html). Also, we will have a car and we are not into wine too much - I am perfectly capable of having a great night out with my wife without the need to drink :) So driving to a local restaurant is no problem at all. Actually, on reflection, it's a positive requirement for me to NOT eat at the same restaurant. I'd much rather try a few alternatives and with four nights it shouldn't be a problem.

Thanks.

Mark

NYCFoodSnob, totally with you on that! I am researching the overall location here but, beyond that, I am very excited about just exploring the area in a rather ad-hoc fashion, from our hotel base. That's always a balance, of course. But providing we are generally in a beautiful environment (which, frankly, seems assured in this part of the world), the last thing I want is things mapped our precisely at the start of the day (one reason we are not into organized tours, by the way). I love the element of discovery and I have read such good things about Cortona.

Thanks.

Mark

So driving to a local restaurant is no problem at all. Actually, on reflection, it's a positive requirement for me to NOT eat at the same restaurant. I'd much rather try a few alternatives and with four nights it shouldn't be a problem.>>

just so long as there ARE at least 4 restaurants close enough for you to want to drive back to your accommodation at night. In September it is likely to be dark by the time you have finished eating.

Ann - i'm sure that your invitation is well meant, but advertising is not allowed here, and that is what you are doing.

People who like to play school-marm should get a job in a school, disciplining children who misbehave.

It's no secret that I promote my share of travel in a style that I own. If I invite travelers to visit my tiny island of Manhattan, am I advertising? I don't think so.

Fodor's rules for posters who work in travel related services state: <i>"If you represent a commercial business (e.g., travel agency, hotel, airline) or charitable organization, please post the URL to the relevant site in your member profile instead of linking to it in your posts."</i>

It seems to me that Ann Alexander of Montisi Magica is not breaking any rules. I don't see a "commercial" posting by MontisiMagica. MontisiMagica is merely suggesting that MarkWill consider the charming Medieval/Tuscan town of Montisi, where Ann happens to live and work. Since Montisi is not well known to tourists, and it happens to be a stone's throw from Montepulciano, I see great opportunity here for high-value information.

There are a lot of people who work in the travel industry who offer keen insight to experienced and inexperienced travelers. They should not be discouraged from posting here. They should be welcomed and thanked. As long as pro-travel users play by Fodor's rules, closet school-marms should mind their manners.

Montisi is a lovely place, if quiet authenticity on a charming Tuscan hilltop appeals to you. It's a little difficult to find in the dark (and perhaps in the light if you're not a very good driver or map reader), but Montisi is a special place for a tourist seeking a unique adventure. I think it's great that Ann Alexander mentioned it. I have a feeling MarkWill never heard of it.

None of my guests has ever wanted to leave! And there is so much to do if you want - you can have cookery classes, learn how to pair wines and cheeses, have wonderful walks and enjoy the magic this area of Tuscany has to offer!

Let me know if you would like more info and whatever you do, I hope you have a wonderful trip.>>

NYCFoodSnob - Had you bothered to read Montisi Magica's profile, you would find a link to her eponymous website on which she is offering cookery, painting and other courses on a commercial basis. Had she stopped at simply lauding the area in which she lives, that would have been fine, but she goes onto say this:

<<None of my guests has ever wanted to leave! And there is so much to do if you want - you can have cookery classes, learn how to pair wines and cheeses, have wonderful walks and enjoy the magic this area of Tuscany has to offer!>>

what is that if not advertising? subtle advertising, but advertising nevertheless.

And as for minding my manners, I was more polite to Ann than you have been to me.

Mark - sorry to divert your thread with this little spat.

Regarding Cortona, yes, it's a very beautiful, interesting, and historical place...and I absolutely despise it in high season. I've never been in any town anywhere in Europe that was more thronged with huge, loud groups of Americans. It was like rue Cler on steroids (and I was in the area for 6 weeks and went to Cortona a few times and had the same experience every time). Went back in mid-October and loved the place. Hope it's that good in September, too. I also love the area around Lago Trasimeno and Panicale and Paciano and all the lovely little towns around there.

<i><font color=#555555>"Had you bothered to read Montisi Magica's profile"</font></i>

Dear, I read it long before your condescending assumption.

<i><font color=#555555>"what is that if not advertising? subtle advertising, but advertising nevertheless."</font></i>

So Fodor's made you the hall monitor, put you in charge of determining what was "subtle" advertising? At what point is it OK for adults to exit high school?

When my guests visit me in NYC or in Venice, they don't want to leave either. Am I really advertising my employment services by saying so? Intent matters. Tell me, annhig, do you have special mind-reading powers?

<i><font color=#555555>"I've never been in any town anywhere in Europe that was more thronged with huge, loud groups of Americans."</font></i>

They may not be Americans (most are staying away due to the exchange rate and the high cost of airline travel), but loud groups of Brits, Russians, and Germans have recently invaded Venice.

The table of six seated next to me at a recent visit to Da Fiore was the most thoughtless, tasteless, drunken group of arrogant people I've ever had to tolerate at a famous restaurant. And I wasn't the only patron who complained to Signore Martin. This pathetic group did not hail from America.

On any given day in Europe's high season, a classy, elegant, highly educated, well-dressed tourist can be accosted by the sound of vulgar, obnoxious, unsophisticated travelers and their awful clothing choices. What can one do? Any suggestion, that Cortona receives an abundance of one nationality, guilty of loud, group travel, makes me laugh.

I am quite able to distinguish obnoxious Americans from obnoxious groups that hail from elsewhere. There were of course tourists from all over, but the vast majority were Americans, quite obviously so. Whether that translates to Cortona getting an abundance of one nationality, I wouldn't know, and didn't say so.

Dear, I read it long before your condescending assumption.>>

who's being condescending now?

I cannot believe that you are really so incapable of seeing the difference between your disinterested recommending of NYC to your personal friends, and Ann Alexander's praise of Montisi and her mentioning of her own commercial interests in getting the OP and others to go there and use her services.

just because she doesn't actually put the link to her website in her post does not prevent its being advertising; her screen name makes the fact that she is a commercial organisation perfectly obvious. I don't need powers of telepathy to work that out and neither do you.

and who, for that matter, made YOU thread monitor? you choose to disagree with me, that's fair enough, but there's no need to be offensive with it.

I find unauthorized hall monitors in an adult environment extremely offensive. I feel the same about adults who behave like children.

If Fodor's DID NOT want travel associates to post here, it would say so in their rules. I believe MontisiMagica followed the rules here, and I don't view her suggestion of her home town as "commercial" advertising. Since I work in advertising, I know what Fodor's means by "commercial."

StCirq, you have a long history of disdain for obnoxious Americans on this board. They seem to stand out for you no matter where you go.

If you google 'Montisi Magica' you will find that it IS indeed a commercial endeavor. I think annhig let the other Ann know in a nice way about ads.

NYCFoodSnob, you owe annhig an apology.

Back to OP, I agree it's much easier to take the ferry without the car. We were in Bellagio over Easter weekend and there were quite a few car backups. It might not be so crowded in September. I do hope you'll do a trip report.

<<StCirq, you have a long history of disdain for obnoxious Americans on this board. They seem to stand out for you no matter where you go.>>

Well you certainly stand out as one.

Can I have my thread back please? :)

Nah, it's ours now.

Seriously, I've spent a lot of time working and visiting in Tuscany. I think the landscape and small towns are wonderful for exploring. I also think Lake Como is perfect for wallowing and reflecting.

However, I get the feeling that you know exactly what you want to do. I can only repeat the advice given to use boats and not a car on Lake Como.

<i><font color=#555555>"Well you certainly stand out as one."</font></i>

Takes one to know one, for sure. I do love testing the pestiferous waters on this board. Always have. But my pitch and tone has softened through the years, and I prefer my current singing voice. Love you, StCirq.

<i><font color=#555555>"you owe annhig an apology"</font></i>

I don't apologize to hall monitors. It is extremely difficult to make any money in the travel business. I see no reason to knock a person down, especially a one-woman operation in a tiny town with few visitors, for trying to succeed because she has the gift of hospitality in her bones and likes to share. Fodor's has moderators. Only they know how they define "commercial advertising."

<i><font color=#555555>"Can I have my thread back please?"</font></i>

Gladly.

I'm going to assume that little tiff is over and just plough on with my questions and comments...

tuscanlifeedit, I'm not sure if something got lost along the way, but regarding the comment about using boats, not a car, in Lake Como that's EXACTLY what I intend to do, based on the suggestion in this thread. That's an excellent suggestion.

My plan is to be at a hotel in Rome for five days (no car needed), rent a car when we leave Rome, keep it during our stay in Tuscany and return it the day we arrive in Lake Como.

I'm guessing we will pay a pretty penny since we are returning the car to a different location from where we picked it up but at least it's in the same country, so hopefully not daft money.

Thanks.

Mark